What to manage as a tank?

If dps has to manage rotation
And healer has to manage party health

What to manage as a tank?

If you queue a dungeon without a tank you will quickly get an answer to that question

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

If you queue a dungeon without a tank you will quickly get an answer to that question

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Why u feel attacked?
Try to take things a little bit less personal

Tanks role is to keep agro, rotate their mitigation spells and do as much dps as they can.

Not a tank main, but when I heal tanks this is what I expect from my tanks.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Why u feel attacked?
Try to take things a little bit less personal

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I don't feel attacked I just feel like the answer to your question is obvious and that you already to know this answer if you've played this game for a while

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Tanks role is to keep agro, rotate their mitigation spells and do as much dps as they can.

Not a tank main, but when I heal tanks this is what I expect from my tanks.

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Most tanks are not doing mitigations other than getting hit or tank buster.. and they can get away with it with no problem

Tank stance is auto aggro generation there is not such a thing called aggro management

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Most tanks are not doing mitigations other than getting hit or tank buster.. and they can get away with it with no problem

Tank stance is auto aggro generation there is not such a thing called aggro management

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DPS not managing their rotation can get away with it.
Healers poorly managing their healing tools can get away with it.

Basic game can be cleared by pressing 1.

Your point is...?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

DPS not managing their rotation can get away with it.
Healers poorly managing their healing tools can get away with it.

Basic game can be cleared by pressing 1.

Your point is...?

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Nope.. there is something called enrage in savage

If healer die all party die they have a clear thing to manage

But tanks I don't see any thing to manage

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Nope.. there is something called enrage in savage

If healer die all party die they have a clear thing to manage

But tanks I don't see any thing to manage

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I don't think we've played the same savage.

Aside from enrage, there are also these things called:

Tankbusters
Tankswaps
Very damaging raidwide AoEs

Trust me, all party die too, if you don't have a tank or have a tank that don't mitigate these correctly

What is the point you're trying to make?

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Nope.. there is something called enrage in savage

If healer die all party die they have a clear thing to manage

But tanks I don't see any thing to manage

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If you don't see anything to manage with tanks despite doing savage, maybe it's time to accept that tank as a role in ffxiv doesn't fit your need and go play other roles.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Nope.. there is something called enrage in savage

If healer die all party die they have a clear thing to manage

But tanks I don't see any thing to manage

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Go ahead, play savage without managing your mitigation or DPS and we'll see the result.
DPS from everyone is very important in savage/ultimate, if you experimented it, you would be aware of it.
Tank DPS is roughly 70~80% of a melee DPS, it's extremely valuable. If you can clear with a tank that doesn't DPS it means your group is already overgeared.

You should also be aware that in savage, damage taken from busters and raid wide are above player HP, there's many of them you absolutely can't survive without tank mitigation.

Be sure that if tank had "nothing to manage" you would see 1 tank and 5 DPS or 6 DPS in savage content.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

If dps has to manage rotation
And healer has to manage party health

What to manage as a tank?

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Party mit and a mit rotation. I know 90% don't do savage or ultimates on the forums but if you don't get a mit plan and even consider your timings of mit in between busters if you can to help healers, you end up dead more than dps.

sadly using savage and ultimate as exemple isn't a good way of doing thing at all but hey it's how thing how but I do agree that aggro management should be added back

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Tanks role is to keep agro,

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There is no aggro management in XIV anymore. If if happens by accident it gets patched out.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

sadly using savage and ultimate as exemple isn't a good way of doing thing at all but hey it's how thing how but I do agree that aggro management should be added back

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IMO tanks should have something to manage.. I don't have idea now but there is something missing

I play tank in savage mainly warrior because it is the best tank in the game

I really don't have to manage anything just press any mitigation when tank buster and if I was nice I do party mitigation

That's it

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

There is no aggro management in XIV anymore. If if happens by accident it gets patched out.

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I don't think aggro management should be back

It is something for the past we dint need it

I may have an idea of adding rage management which is different in execution

It is like doing mini games with the boss to have extra damage or reduce boss defence or knockout boss

It is like how thancred weaken the lion from ShB trailer

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I don't think aggro management should be back

It is something for the past we dint need it

I may have an idea of adding rage management which is different in execution

It is like doing mini games with the boss to have extra damage or reduce boss defence or knockout boss

It is like how thancred weaken the lion from ShB trailer

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A bit like the defiance bar in GW2? (maybe i misunderstood)

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

sadly using savage and ultimate as exemple isn't a good way of doing thing at all but hey it's how thing how but I do agree that aggro management should be added back

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You can go in extreme and not press your buttons to see the result.
Though you're quite likely to be carried by your team but the same can happen for DPS and Healer if they don't do their role.

You can't take dungeons or normal mode as example as you can clear them only using 1 button for each player.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

IMO tanks should have something to manage.. I don't have idea now but there is something missing

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I believe 3 posts already perfectly answered your question.

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Originally Posted by Kaixern

A bit like the defiance bar in GW2? (maybe i misunderstood)

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I do not play GW2 so I don't know

Tank has to manage both on easy mode.
Tank has party responsibilities, in keeping itself alive by using their own cooldowns, being able to clutch save on people and provide ride wide mitigations/healing.
They also have a DPS rotation, which is a easy mode version of a DPS rotation.


Personally I wish they leaned into both a bit more, tanks should feel like more dynamic supportive DPS, Who hold aggro Imo, as I doubt we will get "aggro management & Stances" I think having a fun rotation and ways to support the group is the best direction for tanks.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Nope.. there is something called enrage in savage

If healer die all party die they have a clear thing to manage

But tanks I don't see any thing to manage

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funny to say this when you have so many grey parses

I find this thread hilarious. I have to manage my mits quite closely in normal dungeons, this is the one mmo where 50% + of the healers won't cast a healing spell unless it is on pain of death or I am at like 30% or less HP. If I didn't use mits in most dungeons I am 100% sure I would probably die every other pull.

I know there is a lot to do whenever it is in dungeon or in raids
This post may be serious, or a rant, or a bait, who knows in this forum.
But there is just one thing i might ask.

Could we maybe have less :
"Boss auto teleports in the middle of the arena every 15/20 seconds"
And more of that positioning job coming from the tank?

(i mean positionning, not just moving to evade AOE or doing mechanic which is still nice)
(maybe nor the right MMO to ask, or the fight design doesn't allow it, or any other reason, but the "auto teleport" just feels ankward to witness every time for me even after all these years)

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Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

If you queue a dungeon without a tank you will quickly get an answer to that question

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If everyone is geared adequately, there is no non-variant/criterion dungeon in this game that cannot be cleared tankless at level. (It's possible criterion/variant dungeons can as well, but I haven't touched them.)

Tanks 'manage' aggro by pushing one AOE button, the second AOE button, and then they can go make dinner and come back and still have aggro. The question is valid; tanks do not have anything to manage. There is no stance juggling to maximize damage, there is no challenge to holding aggro, there is no positioning bosses (because they run to the center to perform mechanics anyway, so it's rare that it matters at all), there is rarely a need to CC anything outside of the highest level of content, mitigation only matters on wall to wall pulls (there are no boss fights outside of the highest end content that ever require the use of mitigation) and in those pulls you can universally use the exact same buttons in the exact same order at the exact same timing. Tank DPS 'rotations' have only slightly more complexity than the "press 2, press 1 7 times, press 2" rotation every healer has, and even when there's class-specific mechanics to manage they're attached to a tiny amount of buttons and more a by-product than a focus.

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Originally Posted by Kaixern

I know there is a lot to do whenever it is in dungeon or in raids
This post may be serious, or a rant, or a bait, who knows in this forum.
But there is just one thing i might ask.

Could we maybe have less :
"Boss auto teleports in the middle of the arena every 15/20 seconds"
And more of that positioning job coming from the tank?

(i mean positionning, not just moving to evade AOE or doing mechanic which is still nice)
(maybe nor the right MMO to ask, or the fight design doesn't allow it, or any other reason, but the "auto teleport" just feels ankward to witness every time for me even after all these years)

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The mechanic you're describing only really became the blight it is, where it's everywhere and in everything, in Shadowbringers and especially the rework of all MSQ dungeons to be completable with Trusts. It's so it's easier to code the AI to do the right thing.

This wasn't a problem in ARR and HW, and it was barely one in Stormblood. Shadowbringers is when this really became a thing. It's not the wrong MMO to want this in, trust.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

funny to say this when you have so many grey parses

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changing the subject will not change the fact

tank job is the easiest because there is actually nothing to manage

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Originally Posted by Rydia_Misuto

This wasn't a problem in ARR and HW, and it was barely one in Stormblood. Shadowbringers is when this really became a thing. It's not the wrong MMO to want this in, trust.

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Yeah, i remember starting to notice it against Seiryu if i recall.

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Originally Posted by Rydia_Misuto

If everyone is geared adequately, there is no non-variant/criterion dungeon in this game that cannot be cleared tankless at level. (It's possible criterion/variant dungeons can as well, but I haven't touched them.)

Tanks 'manage' aggro by pushing one AOE button, the second AOE button, and then they can go make dinner and come back and still have aggro. The question is valid; tanks do not have anything to manage. There is no stance juggling to maximize damage, there is no challenge to holding aggro, there is no positioning bosses (because they run to the center to perform mechanics anyway, so it's rare that it matters at all), there is rarely a need to CC anything outside of the highest level of content, mitigation only matters on wall to wall pulls (there are no boss fights outside of the highest end content that ever require the use of mitigation) and in those pulls you can universally use the exact same buttons in the exact same order at the exact same timing. Tank DPS 'rotations' have only slightly more complexity than the "press 2, press 1 7 times, press 2" rotation every healer has, and even when there's class-specific mechanics to manage they're attached to a tiny amount of buttons and more a by-product than a focus.

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Your points are fair, but management being definitely simplified since the ARR/HW days doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore and player skill is the proof of that.

Nowadays you can queue in a dungeon at level 90-100 and still get a tank that can't use mitigation properly and die or force the healer to GCD heal to keep them alive, so it is still management even if a lot of the layers like positioning, having DPS creep on aggro, stance dancing have effectively been removed.

In that sense 7.0 pictomancer was an hilarious nudge to new tanks because they didn't understand why using their AoE wasnt working and how they had to regain aggro on a mob that had been nuked with 1400 potency, but that's not the route SE is going clearly because of people like this, even if to us that have been playing for years this seems extremely straightforward and therefore, non existant

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Originally Posted by Tunda

changing the subject will not change the fact

tank job is the easiest because there is actually nothing to manage

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People already answered your question about what tanks have to manage. If you only play tanks in normal mode, don't be surprised there's nothing to manage.
But go ahead, tell us how it's easy and how strong you are when casting 0 reprisal and 3 TBNs.

I too, can say driving is easy if I only drive at 10 Km/h.

Put your money where your mouth is and show us how "easy" it is.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

IMO tanks should have something to manage.. I don't have idea now but there is something missing

I play tank in savage mainly warrior because it is the best tank in the game

I really don't have to manage anything just press any mitigation when tank buster and if I was nice I do party mitigation

That's it

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Can't say I agree. Enmity management meant you could potentially lose it. That means healers had to actually do something if a stray claw hit a DPS. Positioning was also removed along with different AoE shapes.

All SE does is remove things without adding anything meaningful to it.

Enmity was and still is needed as long as they don't give us anything in return. Using tank stance and never lose aggro is just pathetic in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Can't say I agree. Enmity management meant you could potentially lose it. That means healers had to actually do something if a stray claw hit a DPS. Positioning was also removed along with different AoE shapes.

All SE does is remove things without adding anything meaningful to it.

Enmity was and still is needed as long as they don't give us anything in return. Using tank stance and never lose aggro is just pathetic in an MMO.

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I believe tank should have Enmity stance but... BIG but!!

there should be phases tank loses the enmity for example "Rage mechanic"

where boss override and start aggro dps based on specific criteria..

tank has to knockout boss to remove rage ability

if tank do poor performance boss will attack hard hitting AOE till people to 130% of party HP.. if healers can't do it save it its a wipe

this is example of how to give tank value not just a punching bag

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Originally Posted by Tunda

there should be phases tank loses the enmity for example "Rage mechanic"
where boss override and start aggro dps based on specific criteria..
tank has to knockout boss to remove rage ability
if tank do poor performance boss will attack hard hitting AOE till people to 130% of party HP.. if healers can't do it save it its a wipe

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Already exist, in the form of "Interject".

O7S: An Add appears and if it's not killed in time it will wipe the raid. When it appears it cast Stoneskin that makes it unkillable if not interrupted.
E7S: Adds appears that must be grabbed by both tanks and moved along the arena. They cast Advent of Light that must be interrupted or wipe the raid.
DSR: Adelphel will cast Holiest Hallowing 3 times during the encounter, it must be interrupted or both bosses will recover all their health making the enrage unreachable.
87 dungeon: Final boss will cast "Bravery" that must be interrupted or it will boost its damages. Since it's a dungeon, it won't wipe the party.

Again, I encourage you to actually play the game as a tank before submitting feedback about a role you touch once every year.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

changing the subject will not change the fact

tank job is the easiest because there is actually nothing to manage

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Tell me you dont know shit without telling me you dont know shit

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

Tell me you dont know shit without telling me you dont know shit

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why u mad of the truth?

tanks have nothing to optimize than pressing tank mitigation every 2 min

combos very simple

latterly Healers skills in their kit

you can't fail playing a tank

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I believe tank should have Enmity stance but... BIG but!!

there should be phases tank loses the enmity for example "Rage mechanic"

where boss override and start aggro dps based on specific criteria..

tank has to knockout boss to remove rage ability

if tank do poor performance boss will attack hard hitting AOE till people to 130% of party HP.. if healers can't do it save it its a wipe

this is example of how to give tank value not just a punching bag

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You're just talking about bosses, though. I'd like to have fun in all kinds of content and when a boss isn't present.
Why even have trash if it's, well, trash. But knowing the XIV community they'd celebrate it if all trash everywhere was removed as an accessibility feature. lol

I think Criterion did it right. Maybe don't hit so hard, but at least the road *to* a boss was interesting. Every dungeon is devoid of that and the only difference is the scenery.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

You're just talking about bosses, though. I'd like to have fun in all kinds of content and when a boss isn't present.
Why even have trash if it's, well, trash. But knowing the XIV community they'd celebrate it if all trash everywhere was removed as an accessibility feature. lol

I think Criterion did it right. Maybe don't hit so hard, but at least the road *to* a boss was interesting. Every dungeon is devoid of that and the only difference is the scenery.

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I believe the best game who designed a trash mobs right is Zelda breath of the wild..

they act like real humans even though if they think they can't kill you close range they are casting range spells..
I wish we have this type of intelligence in FFXIV to trash mobs

you obviously never played a tank if you believe aggro management is not a thing.... tank stance alone is not enough to keep aggro given some dps have insane damage output. i've lost aggro on enemies many times due to people focussing damage during a pull.
mitigations are a must or you will wipe if your healer is not up to the task to become a healerbot to keep your sorry ass alive. (wich at that point if you dont use mitigations why even bother playing a tank class? just go dps and pull enemies as dps. pretty much the same thing)

and lastly.
tanks should manage: Boss and pull position. cluttered up pulls are better to hit then spread out when we speak targeted AoE's.
face bosses away from your party in regards to cleave or cone attacks.
mitigation rotation. spamming all mits in 1 go get you wiped on your next pull. mitigation not at all gets you most likely wiped instantly as many healers will not and cannot deal the sheer damage if NOT mitigated. (i speak of experience)
and YES enmity management. ALWAYS make sure you are A on the enmity list. some dps focus damage on targets during a pull and will take enmity away from you (bahamut and phoenix even have increased enmity as an effect)
and some dps have such high single target dps they generate enmity while you run forward as tank. KEEP sheild lobbing or unmending. use a provoke or since 7.05 use AoE's and gap closer abilties for increased enmity on the targets.

IF YOU FAIL 1 OF THESE, YOU'RE A MEDIOCRE TANK
IF YOU FAIL MULTIPLE OF THESE YOU'RE A BAD TANK

and yes before you start pointing out i have failed multiple of those points i made. that was early game and i learned from it the hard way. several of you people here in the forum should do that as well rather then look up guides youtube video's o how to play a role. just trial and error baby. its the best teacher. you're forgiven for failure when ur new. but if you're level 80+ you're expected to at least know your rotation and damn basics

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Originally Posted by Tunda

why u mad of the truth?

tanks have nothing to optimize than pressing tank mitigation every 2 min

combos very simple

latterly Healers skills in their kit

you can't fail playing a tank

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Seeing your parses, you cant fail as a dps either

This is a complaint disguised as a question.

I suspect the relatively low number of tanks means making the role more challenging unlikely.

Depending on the tank you're playing you can pick one with a rotation and resource pool more engaging than a DPS so I don't understand the point of this thread.

We're not in the era of missed positional failing combos anymore.