PCT: Holy in White / Comet in Black

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Originally Posted by Comet in Black

Can only be executed while under the effect of Black Paint and Monochrome Tones.

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Originally Posted by Holy in White

Cannot be executed while under the effect of Monochrome Tones.

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These should absolutely be the same button.


Edit: While we're at it, even though Red Green Blue don't mention it, Subtractive Palette disables them. Therefore, the Red Green Blue button and the Cyan Yellow Magenta button should also be the same button and RGB II and CYM II should be the same button.

There's no good reason to make them separate buttons when one is impossible to use while the other is active.



Addenda:

There isn't a good reason for Striking Muse not to just turn into Hammer Stamp, since the cooldown on Striking Muse is 60s and it only grants Hammer Time for 30s--there is no situation in which you are able to cast Striking Muse while already under the effect of Hammer Time, and Hammer Time will never last long enough to overlap the next available Striking Muse. Additionally, Hammer Motif is disabled while Striking Muse is available and while Hammer Time is active. There is no situation where more than one of those three actions is available at the same time. Therefore, Hammer Motif, Striking Muse, and Hammer Stamp should all be a single button.

Starry Sky Motif and Starry Muse are likewise never available at the same time, and should be a single button.

Creature Motif is disabled while you have any monster part painted, so Creature Motif and Living Muse should be a single button.

Are you sure you Set up your option right? Wasnt the Red, green, blue combo at 1 Button in the preview?
Aside of that, would it be simply a 1,2,3 combo

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Originally Posted by Rongway

These should absolutely be the same button.


Edit: While we're at it, even though Red Green Blue don't mention it, Subtractive Palette disables them. Therefore, the Red Green Blue button and the Cyan Yellow Magenta button should also be the same button and RGB II and CYM II should be the same button.

There's no good reason to make them separate buttons when one is impossible to use while the other is active.

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Agreed. Picked it up a bit over an hour ago and it just looked like artificial bloat for the sake of having more buttons on the bar. The Motif skills seem rather pointless too considering the skills they unlock already have a cooldown. The long cast time mid-battle while doing nothing doesn't feel that great either.

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Originally Posted by Keichi

Are you sure you Set up your option right? Wasnt the Red, green, blue combo at 1 Button in the preview?
Aside of that, would it be simply a 1,2,3 combo

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I'm not talking about Red Green Blue not being one button.

Red Green Blue is one button.
Cyan Yellow Magenta is one button.
Any circumstance in which you are allowed to cast CYM, you are not allowed to cast RGB. Therefore, RGB and CYM should be the same button.

Holy in White is one button.
Comet in Black is one button.
Any circumstance in which you are allowed to cast Comet in Black, you are not allowed to cast Comet in White. Therefore, Holy and Comet should be the same button.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

Agreed. Picked it up a bit over an hour ago and it just looked like artificial bloat for the sake of having more buttons on the bar. The Motif skills seem rather pointless too considering the skills they unlock already have a cooldown. The long cast time mid-battle while doing nothing doesn't feel that great either.

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I don't mind the long casts that you don't get the payout from until later.

But there isn't a good reason for Striking Muse not to just turn into Hammer Stamp, since the cooldown on Striking Muse is 60s and it only grants Hammer Time for 30s--there is no situation in which you are able to cast Striking Muse while already under the effect of Hammer Time, and Hammer Time will never last long enough to overlap the next available Striking Muse. Additionally, Hammer Motif is disabled while Striking Muse is available and while Hammer Time is active. There is no situation where more than one of those three actions is available at the same time. Therefore, Hammer Motif, Striking Muse, and Hammer Stamp should all be a single button.

Starry Sky Motif and Starry Muse are likewise never available at the same time, and should be a single button.

Creature Motif is disabled while you have any monster part painted, so Creature Motif and Living Muse should be a single button.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

These should absolutely be the same button.


Edit: While we're at it, even though Red Green Blue don't mention it, Subtractive Palette disables them. Therefore, the Red Green Blue button and the Cyan Yellow Magenta button should also be the same button and RGB II and CYM II should be the same button.

There's no good reason to make them separate buttons when one is impossible to use while the other is active.

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I'm usually against these changes, but I actually agree here. It's a bit jarring. I'm kinda treating it as AF/UI spells, but the Holy/Comet is really weird, and I could see the 1-2-3 sharing the same button too for convenience. Updooted.

I've noticed this of the RGB / CYM too, and bothers me so much because it's literal bloat. The only reason I could see both being separate is if they plan something for them in the future.

Agree with the weapon and landscape motif situation too. It feels as if they forgot to give PCT a full pass in the 'redundant button condensation' treatment. They probably ran off budget after doing it for Tempera Coat/Grassa lol.

Agreed. The bloat feels lazy

I agree… it would definitely feel a lot cleaner and streamlined, especially since I want to keep my canvas actions grouped together, and right now they’re on double-tap hot bars.

It's strange we got that new system to put things on the same button as an option. Me personally because picto hasn't got too many buttons I like them being separated but they certainly should be an option like the shield spread.

Yeah, noticed the button bloat instantly.

Also bit sad that continue with the fixed values for things. Why have a bar with 100 energy where the only way to give energy gives you exactly 25? Then the bar isn't 0-100 it's 0-4.

Make the amount of palette gauge vary between 20-30 and the white paint between 1-2.

Also at least merge hammer stamp into steel mouse. Ideally The motifs were merged with the mouses as well, making the cool down being shown at your resource bars instead.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Yeah, noticed the button bloat instantly.

Also bit sad that continue with the fixed values for things. Why have a bar with 100 energy where the only way to give energy gives you exactly 25? Then the bar isn't 0-100 it's 0-4.

Make the amount of palette gauge vary between 20-30 and the white paint between 1-2.

Also at least merge hammer stamp into steel mouse. Ideally The motifs were merged with the mouses as well, making the cool down being shown at your resource bars instead.

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It's so weird, they just don't want granularity when it comes to resource gains.

Like, each step of the RGB combo could give you some gauge like 0 / 10 / 15. You'd still end up with 25 per completed combo, but now you could micromanage the gauge better. It would make sense if the Subtractive pallete was a stance like it is in PVP.

For serious. Comet and Holy being separate buttons is super annoying. They do the same thing, fill the same rotational role, and cost the same resource. The only difference is the potency, animation, and recast timer. Zero reason to be separate buttons.

As for Fire and Blizzard, I suspect those are different because otherwise, the "spammable filler" portion of the rotation would just be slapping one button over and over. Now, imo, Picto has enough else going on with the Motifs and Muses and their followups that that's not really a problem, but I suspect that's why the devs kept them separate anyway.

While we're at it, can we get the AoE potencies adjusted? Unlike, afaik, every other job in the game, the AoE spammable fillers (Fire II and Blizzard II combos) aren't a DPS gain over the single target versions until FOUR targets, rather than three targets for most other jobs. Fire II and Blizzard II need to do a solid amount more potency, imo. Both combos would break even against 3 targets with their single target version if it had 20 more potency per attack, so probably need at least 30-40 added to each.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

Agreed. Picked it up a bit over an hour ago and it just looked like artificial bloat for the sake of having more buttons on the bar. The Motif skills seem rather pointless too considering the skills they unlock already have a cooldown. The long cast time mid-battle while doing nothing doesn't feel that great either.

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I suspect the long cast times on the Motifs are both for the "flavor" of painting something in combat, and to justify their astronomical potencies. The Creature Motif/Muse, for example, does an average of 1775 potency per usage, since it's 1100 per direct usage, and then every other one gets you a 1300 or 1400 followup (which averages to an extra 675 per usage), and all of that is off the GCD. If they didn't have that long prep, they'd either have to be on the GCD, have much much lower potency, or have something else metering their usage. Imagine if you could open an AoE pack with two back-to-back hammer combos plus 3 creature muses and a mog or madeen laser. That's 4600-4700p in oGCDs and 3720p in guaranteed direct crit GCDs in only 15 seconds. The 3s cast 4s recast motifs are there to keep the burst from the muses in check. And frankly, even with that, Picto has shockingly strong burst.

I agree that the current situation is bad, but would prefer it they did something like give comet a cast time and let you cast HiW while you have black paint stored. And let us stock black paint while we're at it. The UI shows a white paint being turned to black paint, why can't we turn multiple white paints into black paints at once?

If it helps, I setup Pict for PvP and all of those buttons appear to be combined for PvP. How well they work I have no idea since I suck at PvP and I lag out and die before the other players even load in to be able to target them.

I will say having separate buttons is good for learning the class, and having the option to combine/change later like they did for older classes skills that upgrade would be the best option.

I for the life of me cannot figure out Viper because all of the buttons are combined from the start. If I could separate them out until I learn what I am doing and them choose to combine would be ideal.

The mitigation skills should just be separate with shared cooldowns, too. The cooldown between switching them feels so clunky.

Nevermind, I just found out that once you get Monochrome tones, you're locked out of Holy until it's spent. That's incredibly weird since subtractive palette doesn't effectively lock you out of Holy until then.

I disagree. If all of what you suggested was changed, the class would be alternating between 2 buttons for most of their gameplay at level 100. That sucks and is bad.

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Originally Posted by NamazuFanatic

The mitigation skills should just be separate with shared cooldowns, too. The cooldown between switching them feels so clunky.

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You can change this right now. Go into your actions menu and click on their shield and click "action change settings" and you can change this however you like.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

Making them the same button is bad for optimization, you want to use Comet during burst windows while keeping Holy for movement.

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Except you can’t use comet when you have holy up so you can’t hold comet while using holy, you either spend comet or you overwrite it with another comet which you also have to spend

Honestly after SMN consolidating all of its buttons down to literally a small handful of buttons, I’m fine with how parts of it are set up. Stuff like the Palettes I’m cool with how it’s set up and the Muses and Motifs are perfectly fine mechanically.
But Comet and Holy should definitely be on one button, especially because you can’t use Holy when you have comet.
However with the whole consolidation system in place I don’t see why they didn’t go through with it all anyway.

Rather than further condensing everything, I'd want the restrictions on Holy/Comet and RGB/CYM removed; then you can keep a pocket Comet for damage or switch back to RGB for more frequent slidecasting/movement and potentially preserve a Holy or two.

Hell, do that with the Motifs and Muses as well, play into being able to prep lots of different aspects of the Job's spells so you can use all the pay off from that prep in really dense sequences. Your burst window is busy enough that it likely doesn't lead to huge abuse of the two minute allignment, but lets you store up certain abilities/spells to fit an encounter.

Ya, letting you pool multiple Comets would be nice. That said, might make the burst window a bit awkward, it's already quite full, and since each pocketed Comet essentially reduces the maximum number of Holy charges you can have on hand for movement, that could also get annoying. Might be more than they want to do. If they do not go that route, making Comet an automatic replacement of Holy when available is a blindingly obvious change they should have added during initial development, imo. There's literally zero rationale for keeping them separate when they're mutually exclusive like this.

I'm not sure why the hammer has three buttons devoted to it, either.

Just make the Hammer Time buff have two stacks and trigger after the first usage of hammer instead.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm not sure why the hammer has three buttons devoted to it, either.

Just make the Hammer Time buff have two stacks and trigger after the first usage of hammer instead.

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It’s because hammer is the only motif that’s a GCD

1 button to paint
1 oGCD button to “activate” the hammer
1 button for the actual attacks themselves

I suppose it would be possible to combine the oGCD and the actual attack button but the hammer being 3 buttons makes sense to me with how the motifs flow

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s because hammer is the only motif that’s a GCD

1 button to paint
1 oGCD button to “activate” the hammer
1 button for the actual attacks themselves

I suppose it would be possible to combine the oGCD and the actual attack button but the hammer being 3 buttons makes sense to me with how the motifs flow

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I am hoping the awkward parts of the abilities right now are because of future proofing for other types of motifs, it would be cool if for example theres a point in a later expansion where we get another weapon motif that we can switch between the hammer and it on different buttons. Though CBU3 isn't really well known for their future planning of jobs so maybe its just misguided.

Part of me thinks it's really just to add more motivs later down the line but then I remembered MCH/SMN reworks lol

If you look at the picto skillset - if you'd merge the skills that would make sense to merge, you'd end up with only 12 buttons (which isn't bad mind you, I'd enjoy to have the option to do so)

The action merge feature is unneedlessly restricted - works for like 2 skills

I wonder if they did this awkward split/button bloat to artificially increase Picto's mechanical difficulty...

It doesn't even increase the mechanical difficulty. It just increases the number of hotbar slots actually used. It's an illusion of increased mechanical difficulty at best. There's no real difficulty increase between Comet and Holy being separate or the same button, because you can't cast the "wrong one". Only one of the two is ever usable at any given time. It's just stilted bar bloat without any purpose.

Imagine if on Summoner, Bahamut, shiny Bahamut, and Phoenix were all separate buttons, but they still had the same usage sequence. In any given situation, only ONE of the 3 is ever available for cast, in the same order they are currently used, you just have to have them on separate buttons now. Does that really add any depth to the job? Imagine if Astral Flow and Gemshine weren't a thing, and instead the each of the elemental fillers had to be allocated separately on the bar. The hotbars would certainly be much more full, but is there really any actual difficulty being added there?

Difficulty comes from decision-making, and more to the point, decision-making that you can get wrong. If only one of the options is ever available at any given time, then having them as separate buttons is useless bloat without purpose.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

I wonder if they did this awkward split/button bloat to artificially increase Picto's mechanical difficulty...

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really finding downtime and areas to paint your motifs are hard enough. Splitting buttons is really not needed.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Cyan Yellow Magenta is one button.

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off topic but because you mentioned them in this order it reminded me....

These need to be rearranged. The two color modes used in art/design are RGB (red green blue) for additive color which pictomancer does in the right order, and CMYK (cyan, magenta, yellow, black) for subtractive color. Picto does these out of order, and it's upsetting for me.

yeah i agree, that Fire in Red and Blizzard in Cyan (and the IIs by extension) also should be the same button being altered by Subtractive Palette

I see 2 possibilities

1- intentional bloat to avoid having too few buttons
If we remove all the above mentionned bloat, we get

2 > 1 : red,blue,green + cyan,yellow,magenta
2 > 1 : White + Black colors.

3 > 1 : Paint Hammer, Activate hammer, Cast Hammer
2 > 1 : Paint Landscape, Activate Landscape


We'd go from 9 buttons to 4, so 5 less buttons. The job action bar would feel very empty and that's something they simply might not want since they do aim at a certain amount of actions for all jobs.

2- Future proofing some concept
This would mostly be for Hammer and Landscape, but perhaps they have ideas for a new landscape and a new weapon for 110. Therefor, already having buttons split is a good idea. It avoids future reworks and allows to simply add more buttons easily.

This does not explain the whole color buttons. Following their logic, assuming they'd do new colors like "basic palet with black/white" with something like "Flowers in Pink, Cream in Pale Yellow, Bubble in Azur" they'd need to add another button which then would make the current bloat even more apparent.

But for the painting it makes a lot of sens to separate those if they indeed plan on giving us something like a 3min weapon or a special transition landscape

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I see 2 possibilities

1- intentional bloat to avoid having too few buttons
If we remove all the above mentionned bloat, we get

2 > 1 : red,blue,green + cyan,yellow,magenta
2 > 1 : White + Black colors.

3 > 1 : Paint Hammer, Activate hammer, Cast Hammer
2 > 1 : Paint Landscape, Activate Landscape


We'd go from 9 buttons to 4, so 5 less buttons. The job action bar would feel very empty and that's something they simply might not want since they do aim at a certain amount of actions for all jobs.

2- Future proofing some concept
This would mostly be for Hammer and Landscape, but perhaps they have ideas for a new landscape and a new weapon for 110. Therefor, already having buttons split is a good idea. It avoids future reworks and allows to simply add more buttons easily.

This does not explain the whole color buttons. Following their logic, assuming they'd do new colors like "basic palet with black/white" with something like "Flowers in Pink, Cream in Pale Yellow, Bubble in Azur" they'd need to add another button which then would make the current bloat even more apparent.

But for the painting it makes a lot of sens to separate those if they indeed plan on giving us something like a 3min weapon or a special transition landscape

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Having this be forced button bloat doesnt make much sense. Separating regular and subtractive is largely fine, you expect the change because youre usually swapping to them right after, but at least for holy/comet, it feels HORRIBLE. You arent using comet immediately usually, since its also your mobility tool, and you have a lot of other burst to get through as-is. So when you need to move later and hit your holy to cast on the move, you just waste GCDs confused for a while because its comet now. Even just letting us still use holy would solve so many problems instead of locking us out if they REALLY want comet to be a separate button for no reason.

RTB/CYM and W/B definitely need to be condensed.

I can see the argument for keeping the "activate" and "use" hammer buttons separate to make sure you can always see what the cooldown/charge stockpile situation for the "activate" oGCD is.