#FFXIVTANKPARTY

As has been discussed in this thread:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ithout-healers.

We're getting even more self-healing on abilities like Rampart, Vengeance and Sentinel so it'll be a breeze to 1tank/3dps dungeons even on PLD/DRK/GNB.

I would like to make this the official :cool: PARTY THREAD :cool: sub 10m dungeons here we come.

You might be on to something... Second Wind is getting that upgrade in DT...

Party time? :cool:

Joining in on this, I know you meant for this as an attack on the healer role...but this is indirectly supporting the movement xD.
But, if the issue is glaring enough, hopefully they fix the healer role and tank/dd role gets a nerf in sustain. Until then healerless party only, let's go.

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Originally Posted by Katish

Joining in on this, I know you meant for this as an attack on the healer role...but this is indirectly supporting the movement xD.
But, if the issue is glaring enough, hopefully they fix the healer role and tank/dd role gets a nerf in sustain. Until then healerless party only, let's go.

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It's a 2 for 1.
Self described healer mains are truly horrendous to play with. Endwalker should've been the wake-up call for any 'healer mains'.
And in a way yes, I am supporting the game creating more engaging, difficult content that would require the presence of a healer. I don't think taking away DPS/TANK toolkits are the way to do it, that's a band-aid fix for an existential problem.

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Originally Posted by iAxX23

It's a 2 for 1.
Self described healer mains are truly horrendous to play with. Endwalker should've been the wake-up call for any 'healer mains'.
And in a way yes, I am supporting the game creating more engaging, difficult content that would require the presence of a healer. I don't think taking away DPS/TANK toolkits are the way to do it, that's a band-aid fix for an existential problem.

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remember when p8s was a a rather pain in the ass to heal and so many healers got mad? unless actual challanging content for healers to go heal through isnt what they want lmao

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

remember when p8s was a a rather pain in the ass to heal and so many healers got mad? unless actual challanging content for healers to go heal through isnt what they want lmao

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skill issue.

I've been thinking about just making parties that only have a tank OR healer OR red mage since we only really need 1 of these.

But I just never care enough to bother since making parties in PF is slower than just entering the (instant) queue.

A year ago I said I kinda wish DRK had heart of corundum as a joke during a raid session, Yoship heard me.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

A year ago I said I kinda wish DRK had heart of corundum as a joke during a raid session, Yoship heard me.

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I actually don't think one self heal once every 2 minutes is going to make dark knight busted, I kind of like it anyway, Seems like one of the more "reasonable" self sustain tools...

Too bad they gave warrior a 400 potency regen for some reason... who knows why at this point... Warrior literally has self healing on everyone of their defensive cooldowns... Even rampart helps their self healing.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I actually don't think one self heal once every 2 minutes is going to make dark knight busted, I kind of like it anyway, Seems like one of the more "reasonable" self sustain tools...

Too bad they gave warrior a 400 potency regen for some reason... who knows why at this point... Warrior literally has self healing on everyone of their defensive cooldowns... Even rampart helps their self healing.

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I think its going to change how DRKs mit, one one hand an excog is weird on a job that excels at not taking damage.
But then I think their mits are flexible enough to be able to move the excog around where its needed, especially in casual/side content. I'm a fan of the idea.

WAR on the other hand feels kinda like an insult, its a strong skill but its not needed at all. WAR would be a lot more cozy with a shield or even just not having a regen but more mit.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I think its going to change how DRKs mit, one one hand an excog is weird on a job that excels at not taking damage.
But then I think their mits are flexible enough to be able to move the excog around where its needed, especially in casual/side content. I'm a fan of the idea.

WAR on the other hand feels kinda like an insult, its a strong skill but its not needed at all. WAR would be a lot more cozy with a shield or even just not having a regen but more mit.

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the update to wars 120s mit is fair, gnb and pld have the "better" ones since its just more mit attached, but war was already a sustain monste, however regen or a heal bomb dont help in not getting flattened , but useful for recovery, i suppose

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Originally Posted by iAxX23

It's a 2 for 1.
Self described healer mains are truly horrendous to play with. Endwalker should've been the wake-up call for any 'healer mains'.
And in a way yes, I am supporting the game creating more engaging, difficult content that would require the presence of a healer. I don't think taking away DPS/TANK toolkits are the way to do it, that's a band-aid fix for an existential problem.

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This logic makes no sense to me. We had interesting tank healer interplay when the tank kits weren’t so overpowered and the tanks asked for their kits to be buffed so they could functionally ignore the healer

Now you want them to make engaging mechanics that challenge that higher healing so you can what………go back to asking for tank healing to be buffed so you can go back to ignoring the healers

I’m not sure if this circular logic you are on, either you want your tools to be overpowered or you don’t, there is no third option

ah, yes
now we shall be knows as
The War
and Dark War, and Light War
and Gun War

while healers are literally planning exodus

Virgin Healer VS Chad Tank :3

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Originally Posted by Syln

Virgin Healer VS Chad Tank :3

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Sounds like some sort of rule34 material

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Originally Posted by Oizen

an excog is weird on a job that excels at not taking damage.

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When in a raid setting or paired with a healer that knows what they're doing, which most healers in duty finder this expansion do not. The change to Shadow Wall (Now Shadowed Vigil) is absolutey a casual oriented change for dungeons wherein Dark Knight was wholly reliant on a healer for any form of tangible, passable sustain. Even then, its not nearly as good as the other three, who can quite literally keep themselves alive without a healer regardless of the circumstances presented, but we'll take it.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Sounds like some sort of rule34 material

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Too much internet for you ! It was in reference to a meme :D

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

remember when p8s was a a rather pain in the ass to heal and so many healers got mad? unless actual challanging content for healers to go heal through isnt what they want lmao

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There's some truth to what you're saying here- some healers definitely complained about the large amount of bleeding effects in Abyssos in general (I actually healed for some time in Abyssos and thought it was a very clever way to leverage some of the healer tools this game made available- in fact, I wish bleeding TBs and raidwides became a permanent stay).
But for P8S specifically, the problem was much more multi-faceted than just "healers don't wanna heal" and "healers bad lol". That sometimes was part of the problem (I'm pretty sure anyone who progged that fight in the pf in the early weeks died a few times to the bleed because many healers were afk Broil/Glare spamming while the party bled out), but in the early weeks those bleeds were brutal and required the whole party to come together to mitigate the aoes properly. I was very unlucky with my loot drops week 1 and started progging P8S Saturday at ilv 613 and Hephaistos's chimera-form jump-spam earth aoe frequently killed me due to missing Reprisals/Feints. Mitigating that fight at the start (and even at the end, to be honest) was a party endeavor, and it was often frustrating for healers to be doing all they could but still die/fail because the rest of the party wasn't in the habit of pressing their mitigation.
P8S was a perfect storm of both problems converging- healers who greeded/didn't want to heal (or weren't used to that healing output) and the party not being willing (or capable) of pressing their mits/coordinating a mit plan.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I think its going to change how DRKs mit, one one hand an excog is weird on a job that excels at not taking damage.
But then I think their mits are flexible enough to be able to move the excog around where its needed, especially in casual/side content. I'm a fan of the idea.

WAR on the other hand feels kinda like an insult, its a strong skill but its not needed at all. WAR would be a lot more cozy with a shield or even just not having a regen but more mit.

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I don't think our mit plan changes much. But there are some concerns.
In savage+ we'll just use shadow wall for physical tank busters, as those will hit us harder, and thus more likely we'll reach that threshold.
The whole healing passive buff on rampart doesn't really do anything for us as we'll likely be cycling rampart and shadow wall still.
So i'm more worried about that. Rampart benefits the other tanks waaaay more than it will benefit Dark knight. Paladin and Warrior have a bunch of abilities that heal them, that will be used alongside Rampart.
Drk will only have 1 that they're likely saving for the next tank buster. I've very rarely had a case where i used both, as you're usually better off cycling Rampart/Shadow wall and supplement them with TBN's/Oblation/Dark mind so you'll have large coverage for every individual buster.

It's definitely going to be the least functional mit in anything but savage+ content though. We already struggle breaking TBN's against a lot of generic tank busters.
I don't think we're very likely to drop to at least half hp with a 40% mit up. Our healers will waste ogcd heals on us before it goes off.

If healers don't wanna heal I guess we got no choice. Other MMOs will go tank + 3 DPS as the meta in dungeon farming (ESO it's almost a requirement) because it's all about how fast you can grind.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

If healers don't wanna heal I guess we got no choice. Other MMOs will go tank + 3 DPS as the meta in dungeon farming (ESO it's almost a requirement) because it's all about how fast you can grind.

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As far as I'm concerned, i wish the healer role was changed into support with different variation depending on the job. Never liked to depend so heavily on someone and I'm glad ff14 went further away from that game design even if it's for different reasons.

Take away all party CD buff from other job and give them to the healer, add a more entertaining way to deal damage and double down on off gcd heal/shielding while getting rid of healing skill that require casting.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

When in a raid setting or paired with a healer that knows what they're doing, which most healers in duty finder this expansion do not. The change to Shadow Wall (Now Shadowed Vigil) is absolutey a casual oriented change for dungeons wherein Dark Knight was wholly reliant on a healer for any form of tangible, passable sustain. Even then, its not nearly as good as the other three, who can quite literally keep themselves alive without a healer regardless of the circumstances presented, but we'll take it.

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To be honest DRK already completely Excels at not taking damage in a Raid setting, but having that excog in something like Criterion is really good for it. I don't really have an issue with what we've gotten here.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I don't think our mit plan changes much. But there are some concerns.
In savage+ we'll just use shadow wall for physical tank busters, as those will hit us harder, and thus more likely we'll reach that threshold.
The whole healing passive buff on rampart doesn't really do anything for us as we'll likely be cycling rampart and shadow wall still.
So i'm more worried about that. Rampart benefits the other tanks waaaay more than it will benefit Dark knight. Paladin and Warrior have a bunch of abilities that heal them, that will be used alongside Rampart.
Drk will only have 1 that they're likely saving for the next tank buster. I've very rarely had a case where i used both, as you're usually better off cycling Rampart/Shadow wall and supplement them with TBN's/Oblation/Dark mind so you'll have large coverage for every individual buster.

It's definitely going to be the least functional mit in anything but savage+ content though. We already struggle breaking TBN's against a lot of generic tank busters.
I don't think we're very likely to drop to at least half hp with a 40% mit up. Our healers will waste ogcd heals on us before it goes off.

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That is a bit of a concern, but at the end of the day Rampart is going to affect received healing from healers and thats probably going to be far more important than even the selfish healing on WAR.
It is a bit of a tonedeaf trait for Rampart though, but we can use it to try to get more out of abyssal drain and soul eater, of which you'll get to use soul eater 3 times under Rampart's duration if you're minmaxing it