Dawntrail's mediatour dungeon was already cleared without healers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqBWp00XNZs

Not a fan of this guy in particular but I think its pretty sad we're still here in this same boat again.


Guess the healers aren't going to have any engagement outside of ultimate raids again. :rolleyes:

Not to mention if this is what "ENHANCED ENCOUNTER DESIGN" means, 7.x is already a spectacular failure.

Also they're really just doubling down. I wonder if they all got long COVID at their office :o

https://i.ibb.co/5TXSG0w/Screenshot-...-07-181424.png

https://i.ibb.co/Kr31ggG/Screenshot-...-07-181612.png

https://i.ibb.co/7kjG5Z2/Screenshot-...-07-181739.png

https://i.ibb.co/gwTcwxf/Screenshot-...-07-181848.png

https://i.ibb.co/FnLJYQT/Screenshot-...-07-182222.png

https://i.ibb.co/VWPW8fk/Screenshot-...-07-182123.png

Can't wait to cast Aspected Benefic once every 15 seconds and spam Malefic as filler, for another entire expansion :confused:

I have a lot of problems with WoW, but man what I wouldn't give for some of their class design brains to leak into FFXIV...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Guess the healers aren't going to have any engagement outside of ultimate raids again. :rolleyes:

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Oh don't worry about that, they're be playing Forums (Extreme).

Honestly, non-healers have way too much self-sustain. Warriors are essentially gods at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oizen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqBWp00XNZs

Not a fan of this guy in particular but I think its pretty sad we're still here in this same boat again.


Guess the healers aren't going to have any engagement outside of ultimate raids again. :rolleyes:

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Yeah, but if they nerf WARs self heal, or do anything to make WAR "not the best", Xeno will throw the biggest manchild rant ever. Just like last time. I really don't get his appeal.

It's a dungeon, they're designed to be easy. Practically any dungeon in the game can be cleared day 1 without a healer, especially with a warrior tanking, so why would you expect Dawntrail to suddenly be different? I'd love if dungeons were more difficult but I'm not going to get upset and set myself up for disappointment when I already know the expansion isn't doing anything new with them. Maybe 8.0, but expect the same type of gameplay seen in Endwalker in Dawntrail.

It's not like healers are going to be stuck without being able to dungeons because everyone wants a third DPS. Most people run dungeons through the duty finder with randoms and that forces the typical party composition. If your friends are going to exclude you from content because you play a healer, then they're probably not very good friends to begin with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yeah, but if they nerf WARs self heal, or do anything to make WAR "not the best", Xeno will throw the biggest manchild rant ever. Just like last time. I really don't get his appeal.

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It would be bad optics for them to lose one of their bigger streamers even if his opinions are objectively awful. Can't say I'm surprised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

It's a dungeon, they're designed to be easy. Practically any dungeon in the game can be cleared day 1 without a healer, especially with a warrior tanking, so why would you expect Dawntrail to suddenly be different? I'd love if dungeons were more difficult but I'm not going to get upset and set myself up for disappointment when I already know the expansion isn't doing anything new with them. Maybe 8.0, but expect the same type of gameplay seen in Endwalker in Dawntrail.

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I was promised Enhanced Encounter design, this is more of the same.
I didn't actually expect anything different though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

It's a dungeon, they're designed to be easy. Practically any dungeon in the game can be cleared day 1 without a healer, especially with a warrior tanking, so why would you expect Dawntrail to suddenly be different? I'd love if dungeons were more difficult but I'm not going to get upset and set myself up for disappointment when I already know the expansion isn't doing anything new with them. Maybe 8.0, but expect the same type of gameplay seen in Endwalker in Dawntrail.

It's not like healers are going to be stuck without being able to dungeons because everyone wants a third DPS. Most people run dungeons through the duty finder with randoms and that forces the typical party composition. If your friends are going to exclude you from content because you play a healer, then they're probably not very good friends to begin with.

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I think this might be the only game where the difficulty has steadily gone down over time as the expansions progress because the incoming damage in dungeons has remained proportionally static while the mitigation/healing cooldowns keep getting more bloated.

It's really not asking much to be pressured into having to actually use your entire kit in normal mode content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

It's a dungeon, they're designed to be easy. Practically any dungeon in the game can be cleared day 1 without a healer, especially with a warrior tanking, so why would you expect Dawntrail to suddenly be different? I'd love if dungeons were more difficult but I'm not going to get upset and set myself up for disappointment when I already know the expansion isn't doing anything new with them. Maybe 8.0, but expect the same type of gameplay seen in Endwalker in Dawntrail.

It's not like healers are going to be stuck without being able to dungeons because everyone wants a third DPS. Most people run dungeons through the duty finder with randoms and that forces the typical party composition. If your friends are going to exclude you from content because you play a healer, then they're probably not very good friends to begin with.

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You mean Duty Finder is the only thing keeping healer as a role alive in casual content? :o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

cast Aspected Benefic once every 15 seconds

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?????????????????????????????????????????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

so why would you expect Dawntrail to suddenly be different?

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We don't. We are just hammering it home that Yawntrail will stay in line with the previous two as yet another terrible expansion for healers. And the fact that ZERO changes were made to help them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

It's not like healers are going to be stuck without being able to dungeons because everyone wants a third DPS. Most people run dungeons through the duty finder with randoms and that forces the typical party composition. If your friends are going to exclude you from content because you play a healer, then they're probably not very good friends to begin with.

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Isn't it funny that healers are welcomed in Duty Finder only because of the system restrictions and not players actually needing them to survive?

Nobody's getting excluded. With availability to swtich jobs at any time, those friends will simply ask you to swap to an objectively better choice - DPS/Tank to clear stuff faster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I was promised Enhanced Encounter design, this is more of the same.
I didn't actually expect anything different though.

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Yeah for Extreme and Savages. Dungeons are unfortunately designed for those that don't like having to think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I think this might be the only game where the difficulty has steadily gone down over time as the expansions progress because the incoming damage in dungeons has remained proportionally static while the mitigation/healing cooldowns keep getting more bloated.

It's really not asking much to be pressured into having to actually use your entire kit in normal mode content.

---

It's why I'd like to see a big overhaul with how combat and jobs are designed, however they already said that won't be in DT so I wasn't going to get my hopes up.

They kind of built themselves into a corner with most jobs where all they can really do is add bigger damage numbers or stronger buffs. Even in the current state, they're scared to challenge players in casual content because of the few that hate even having a single wipe so everything boils down to "Tankbuster, Raidwide, Move out of AoE, Stack Marker," repeat. The few fights that do something new don't punish you for failure, you just take a bit of damage and maybe a stack of Vulnerability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

Practically any dungeon in the game can be cleared day 1 without a healer, especially with a warrior tanking

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Yes and that's the problem. Even in normal content each class should have enough of a purpose to not be replaced so very easily. That is the point of the trinity.
There is a clear discrepancy between the state of healers and that of other roles that should not exist.
It being already possible in EW doesn't make it better. It makes it worse.

Talking about WAR in particular, no job should be so crazily powerful on all fronts, damage, healing and mit, that they trivialise an entire role.

It's not like they really struggled. He even dragged skills onto his hotbar during boss fights without it causing any major hiccups despite such shenanigans.

This being media tour footage of all things is making healers look like a fool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

Yeah for Extreme and Savages. Dungeons are unfortunately designed for those that don't like having to think.

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Damn I don't remember Yoshida saying that in the quote. Do you know him personally?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Damn I don't remember Yoshida saying that in the quote. Do you know him personally?

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Yes, we have tea every other Sunday. Would you like me to get an autograph for you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

It's a dungeon, they're designed to be easy. Practically any dungeon in the game can be cleared day 1 without a healer, especially with a warrior tanking, so why would you expect Dawntrail to suddenly be different? I'd love if dungeons were more difficult but I'm not going to get upset and set myself up for disappointment when I already know the expansion isn't doing anything new with them. Maybe 8.0, but expect the same type of gameplay seen in Endwalker in Dawntrail.

It's not like healers are going to be stuck without being able to dungeons because everyone wants a third DPS. Most people run dungeons through the duty finder with randoms and that forces the typical party composition. If your friends are going to exclude you from content because you play a healer, then they're probably not very good friends to begin with.

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The heck? Am I not allowed to have fun just because I made the mistake of rolling healer? Don't make it hard necessarily, but make it ENGAGING.

We're now at a point where turning content into a less brain-dead version is considered innovative. Just give me something to do.

You can't expect dungeons to actually be difficult when they never have been outside of one instance, yes?

LCDs can't be bothered to hit cooldowns so healing will be harder. Because that's who we should clearly balance toward :) /s

If you don't play content higher than regular dungeons/story, then you're not allowed to have fun in any role. That's just how the game always has been. Again, they cried about not being able to clear Vishap/Shinryu when it was current, so how do you expect them to do harder dungeons, or having content that requires a pulse, let alone a semblance of thought?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

The heck? Am I not allowed to have fun just because I made the mistake of rolling healer? Don't make it hard necessarily, but make it ENGAGING.

We're now at a point where turning content into a less brain-dead version is considered innovative. Just give me something to do.

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You seem to be confused and think I'm defending the current state of the game when all I'm saying is that that it's pointless to expect sweeping changes to the game's designed when we knew a long time ago that was never going to be the case. It's like a kid being told he's not going to get a Playstation 5 for Christmas then on Christmas Day he's angry because it turns out he didn't get a Playstation 5.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

You can't expect dungeons to actually be difficult when they never have been outside of one instance, yes?

LCDs can't be bothered to hit cooldowns so healing will be harder. Because that's who we should clearly balance toward :) /s

If you don't play content higher than regular dungeons/story, then you're not allowed to have fun in any role. That's just how the game always has been. Again, they cried about not being able to clear Vishap/Shinryu when it was current, so how do you expect them to do harder dungeons, or having content that requires a pulse, let alone a semblance of thought?

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They shouldn't make big promises about improving encounter/content design when one of the longest standing sour points is that anything that isn't extreme or higher tends to be a snoozefest.

Them caving to those few people who wanted everything to be made easier instead of forcing them to actually improve was also a mistake to begin with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

They shouldn't make big promises about improving encounter/content design when one of the longest standing sour points is that anything that isn't extreme or higher tends to be a snoozefest.

Them caving to those few people who wanted everything to be made easier instead of forcing them to actually improve was also a mistake to begin with.

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You're a bit behind on the news there. That's been mistranslated and we've known this for weeks now.

I was pretty excited too then heard that, so my hopes for Dawntrail being anything less than more of the same went down the drain. Only thing I can think of is maybe they'll do something with EX/Criterion, but I bet you'll get the same people complaining how they can't do the content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

You seem to be confused and think I'm defending the current state of the game when all I'm saying is that that it's pointless to expect sweeping changes to the game's designed when we knew a long time ago that was never going to be the case. It's like a kid being told he's not going to get a Playstation 5 for Christmas then on Christmas Day he's angry because it turns out he didn't get a Playstation 5.

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Wanting to not be bored in a dungeon is not a sweeping change but a minor tweak to HP values and damage output/ intake.

It could easily be solved with something gaming addressed literally decades ago. Difficulty settings. XIV has that, but only going down from "normal" to easy and very easy. Why not also to hard? Or incentivise min ilvl where you can up the damage percentage with five times the drop rate or turn it into a daily roulette for Moogle tomes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

You're a bit behind on the news there. That's been mistranslated and we've known this for weeks now.

I was pretty excited too then heard that, so my hopes for Dawntrail being anything less than more of the same went down the drain. Only thing I can think of is maybe they'll do something with EX/Criterion, but I bet you'll get the same people complaining how they can't do the content.

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I mean no it hasn't, he doubled down on enhanced encounters in his response to job homogenization and why the 7.0 job update was so tame.

Hello Kitty island adventure was more difficult.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oizen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqBWp00XNZs

Not a fan of this guy in particular but I think its pretty sad we're still here in this same boat again.


Guess the healers aren't going to have any engagement outside of ultimate raids again. :rolleyes:

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I am 100% sure that if healers weren't mandatory in roulettes people would just go with premade. Sometimes it does feel like you are griefing by playing healer, and would do a much better job just taking a RDM instead.

That with the addition of some changes literally looks like a big F you to the Healers.
WHM gets a dash - this is good, you can think of it as the wind itself picking you up and pushing you to safety (or danger)
SCH - gets WHM cosplay, the ability itself is nice, but it's more button bloat with a small ability you can activate every 3 minutes. And all the DoTs the SCH players have been begging for since SHB? You can have 1 every 2 minutes...
AST - Got the RNG removed and the playstyle of using cards to buff your allies. Have fun with the streamlined deck every 60 seconds.
SGE - Also seems to get it good, being given the DoTs the SCH players were begging for!

Literally, why haven't SCH and SGE abilities been switched?
SCH is the strategist who uses different tactics to their advantage, shields to protect their allies, DoTs to inflict their enemies with status effect and having their trusted Faerie handle the healing on the go, with some aid from the SCH when needed. They could have just given SCH all of their DoTs back, make them instacast (to prevent the whine about not healing because of casting) and use different resources to get to them (MP, Faerie gage, eather flow, followup to a healing ability, or the one that we did get after Chain)
SGE is a futuristic doctor who manipulates crystals, eather and uses Math to find the best ways to heal a wound, while at the same time dealing copious amounts of damage to their enemies. (turn them into a cyborg that heals and shoots lasers)

Once again my genuine hope for DT is anyone who is even 10% competent at healer simply abandons healer and forces these god tanks and DPS who support the god tanks to wait in 30 minute queues to get cure 1 spammers so the entire trinity can burn down around them

The absolute disrespect to the healer role is beyond a joke at this point and if you still support the tank design in modern 14 I hope you suffer with crap queues the entire expansion

This look perfect not gonna lie.

Many healer players like myself suffers from extreme anxiety and having to cure the tank feels very very stressful like uff you won't believe.

Now in DT having to cast cure 1 every 6o seconds sounds great! I m looking forward to let others jobs revive by themselves.

Thanks SE for listen to us after many years complaining. Healers aren't for DPS or utility they are for h e a l i n g

Should've known this thread would popup. The fact that non-Healer jobs have so many sustain abilities in DT is insulting.

Paladin: Gets personal barrier application.
Warrior: Gets personal regen & OP BW.
Dark Knight: Gets personal Excotigation.
Gunbreaker: Gets personal Protraction.
Monk: Gets an AOE heal.
Pictomancer: Gets an AOE heal, personal barrier, and AOE barrier.
Summoner: Gets an AOE heal.

Do non-healer players not realize how dumb this is? Having the Healer role being meaningful in only Savage and Ultimate fights isn't good for the game. I know dungeons are supposed to be easy content, but not THIS easy. Especially after 70+ levels. Give me more opportunities to heal, please!!

I am once again asking for unlimited stun on holy to see how tanks feel being a vestigial role

yeah, my thinking is that if nothing turns around, I doubt I will be back for 8. I enjoy the game, but I main a healer, because, I enjoy doing it. but giving AOE heals to monk and Smn? bad enough tanks, especially War dont need the rest of the party AT ALL... makes me begin to question their direction.

if they didnt advertise that they have all these various jobs you can play, I suspect SE would just trash bin all healers and give dps the heals

Quote:

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Should've known this thread would popup. The fact that non-Healer jobs have so many sustain abilities in DT is insulting.

Paladin: Gets personal barrier application.
Warrior: Gets personal regen & OP BW.
Dark Knight: Gets personal Excotigation.
Gunbreaker: Gets personal Protraction.
Monk: Gets an AOE heal.
Pictomancer: Gets an AOE heal, personal barrier, and AOE barrier.
Summoner: Gets an AOE heal.

Do non-healer players not realize how dumb this is? Having the Healer role being meaningful in only Savage and Ultimate fights isn't good for the game. I know dungeons are supposed to be easy content, but not THIS easy. Especially after 70+ levels. Give me more opportunities to heal, please!!

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As a DNC main, it's kinda annoying that so many other DPS are getting easy heals. While I have to be chained to a twitchy DPS to max my burst heal and double weave my improv to get half the shield of Picto and a weak regen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yeah, but if they nerf WARs self heal, or do anything to make WAR "not the best", Xeno will throw the biggest manchild rant ever. Just like last time. I really don't get his appeal.

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He lets the people that cheat have a voice pretty much

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oizen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqBWp00XNZs

Not a fan of this guy in particular but I think its pretty sad we're still here in this same boat again.

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same, he is a bit too toxic masculine for my taste.

Also would like to comment on the dungeon.

In my opinion, the first dungeon in an expansion should not be too hard. As much as I loved Shadowbringers, that first dungeon was a bit too brutal for the average player. I'm not saying I couldn't do it or anything, but I think that if you just drop a surge in difficulty on players on the first new dungeon of an expansion, it isn't the greatest. That's when you're figuring out your new hot bars, and getting adjusted to the new themes, and playstyles. It should have SOME difficulty, but not be excessive IMO.

So I don't really have any issue with the easy healing complaints, or anything of the sort. Imagine if you just got all new skills, some removed, and you just kept wiping over and over.

It was cool that Shadowbringers had a harder first dungeon, and it definitely helped thematically set the tone. It definitely helped with the feeling and tension of the expansion, so it wasn't the WORST decision, but it wasn't a great one for new players, or people who are getting used to the game under new circumstances again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

same, he is a bit too toxic masculine for my taste.

Also would like to comment on the dungeon.

In my opinion, the first dungeon in an expansion should not be too hard. As much as I loved Shadowbringers, that first dungeon was a bit too brutal for the average player. I'm not saying I couldn't do it or anything, but I think that if you just drop a surge in difficulty on players on the first new dungeon of an expansion, it isn't the greatest. That's when you're figuring out your new hot bars, and getting adjusted to the new themes, and playstyles. It should have SOME difficulty, but not be excessive IMO.

So I don't really have any issue with the easy healing complaints, or anything of the sort. Imagine if you just got all new skills, some removed, and you just kept wiping over and over.

It was cool that Shadowbringers had a harder first dungeon, and it definitely helped thematically set the tone. It definitely helped with the feeling and tension of the expansion, so it wasn't the WORST decision, but it wasn't a great one for new players, or people who are getting used to the game under new circumstances again.

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The problem is because of gear and skill scaling the first dungeon is also the hardest

So the hardest dungeon in the expansion is being cleared before expansion release with no healers

DT’s expert dungeons if you queue as healer are going to just give you a popup at this rate saying “lol really” and force swap you to pictomancer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimalsALot

?????????????????????????????????????????

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What? That's basically all there is to casual content healing these days. Cast an AOE HoT/barrier (Depending on the job, it's Medica II, Succor, Aspected Benefic, or Eukrasian Prognosis), spam your one healer damage ability over and over, and refresh the HoT/barrier when needed. Unless the tank is undergeared or overpulling, they will passively heal through everything else.

We love healing! :confused:

Most players are honestly not skilled enough to clear content and without a healer present. If they tune normal content high enough that you get bodied without constant heals then most of the casual playerbase is going to have a rough time. Savage raiders will be happy but for 5% of the playerbase that’s what one might consider a niche market to appeal to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wobi

Most players are honestly not skilled enough to clear content and without a healer present. If they tune normal content high enough that you get bodied without constant heals then most of the casual playerbase is going to have a rough time. Savage raiders will be happy but for 5% of the playerbase that’s what one might consider a niche market to appeal to.

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Somehow there is a middle ground between “your healer has to be a savage raider to clear story mode dungeons” and “you literally don’t even need a healer”

It’s like somehow every expansion prior to EW knew this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Somehow there is a middle ground between “your healer has to be a savage raider to clear story mode dungeons” and “you literally don’t even need a healer”

It’s like somehow every expansion prior to EW knew this

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Same thing for every expansion, wild speculation about content based on limited knowledge. As a healer main I’d like it to be similar in difficulty to SB but scaled up. However, some players honestly crumble under that difficulty so it’s hard for them to strike a balance.

1) THIS IS NOT A FINAL BUILD.

This is the media tour, do you not pay attention to the disclaimers that state 'things are subject to change'? How many times have we seen numbers and even complete skill changes before actual release? Many times. You cannot base the actual game on what you see at the media tour. It is a sample. Not the real thing. Just because it seemed 'easy' there, doesn't mean it will in the actual game.

2) these players in the video play savage raids. even with the handicap of not having their usual set ups, they are skilled. They might saaay they aren't that good, but they are better then the average player who is going to be entering this content.

3) this is the FIRST dungeon of the expansion. it should NOT be hard. You know how HATED Tower of Zot is? It's the hardest dungeon in EW, and people hate it. You have to ease people into the expansion.

4) they are WORKING on upping the difficulty. If they did it right away, the contrast would be too sharp, and years in the future, when someone is doing the MSQ, when the last EW dungeon is easy, and then the next one is super hard, they would be really off putting. They have to ramp it up slowly. Make the MSQ dungeons slowly get harder, and then by the time we hit 7.1 start throwing the enhanced stuff at us. Which is actually what he said in an interview during the media tour. Once you get to the dungeons that will unlock 'Expert' (the level 100 dungeons), you will feel like it is harder.