feedback? where?

the general discussion forum is pretty much the hot spot in the forum. most people post their stuff here. feedback too.
i assume feedback with more likes have a higher chance to get read by the team... no clue if thats true.
but i've read several times from other people the general discussion isnt the right place for it. and the devs keep telling us to write feedback into the forum... but where?

where do we post feedback and where do we post ideas?

there are information, bug report and technical support sections, but none of that makes really sense for feedbacn nor ideas.
there is a feedback section.... but only for the companion-app and the website.. where is the feedback section for the game itself?

My guess is SE only reads the feedback from the Japanese players. Am I wrong? I hope so.

There are gameplay forums for specific sections of the game https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/645-Gameplay and class/job forums https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...6-Classes-Jobs

these are for feedback? thought they are mainly for discussion.
thanks :D

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There are gameplay forums for specific sections of the game https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/645-Gameplay and class/job forums https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...6-Classes-Jobs

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That's funny because the devs have been doing to healers the opposite of the feedback that you can find on the healer forums. I highly doubt the devs read those either or the problem of healers being 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 machines with very little to heal would have been solved an expansion ago

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

That's funny because the devs have been doing to healers the opposite of the feedback that you can find on the healer forums. I highly doubt the devs read those either or the problem of healers being 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 machines with very little to heal would have been solved an expansion ago

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But you are getting new damage actions! You get 1-3 button presses that arent DOT or filler... every 2min after using your obligatory buff!

You should be grateful, they listened! //unloading sarcasm.module

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Originally Posted by Asari5

these are for feedback? thought they are mainly for discussion.
thanks :D

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That's right! The entire forum is for feedback and the developers are far more likely to check the specific forums than the General forum for feedback specific to a gameplay area. Don't get me wrong, they might also use the Search feature, but posts just fall onto the second, third, fourth page so fast in the General forum.

I just focus on the General forum because it's easier to keep track of one forum and it's the most active. When I try to post in the specific forums, it's so tedious to navigate all their arguments and complaints and they are so repetitive that you're spending hours repeating the same things over and over again every day. It's more varied in the General forum.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

That's funny because the devs have been doing to healers the opposite of the feedback that you can find on the healer forums. I highly doubt the devs read those either or the problem of healers being 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 machines with very little to heal would have been solved an expansion ago

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They have, actually, referenced things I've seen brought up in these forums. Specifically acknowledging that people want to go back to "3.x job design", but that they are happy with the current design and want to continue it. To me, this was an acknowledgement of one of the major points I've seen brought up, they are just saying they disagree.

I don't think it's so much that they do not read those forums. It's more likely the translation barrier. The developers are Japanese, and despite what they claim, feedback from the community team struggles to get through to them or there are gaps in the information they gather.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ck-Suggestions

There are actual places to put feedback, but for some reason, NA players just post in general discussion where it'll be drowned out

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

There are actual places to put feedback, but for some reason, NA players just post in general discussion where it'll be drowned out

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I mean the game itself tells you to post feedback here.

Support desk > Contact us > Leave a Suggestion

Feedback and suggestions regarding FFXIV can be posted on the official FFXIV General Discussion forums.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

I mean the game itself tells you to post feedback here.

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That's because it's a General forum and the message doesn't know what the specific subject is that you want to bring up, so obviously they direct you to the General one. But if you know a specific category for it, it's likely gonna be better in there where it won't get drowned out so much.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They have, actually, referenced things I've seen brought up in these forums. Specifically acknowledging that people want to go back to "3.x job design", but that they are happy with the current design and want to continue it. To me, this was an acknowledgement of one of the major points I've seen brought up, they are just saying they disagree.

I don't think it's so much that they do not read those forums. It's more likely the translation barrier. The developers are Japanese, and despite what they claim, feedback from the community team struggles to get through to them or there are gaps in the information they gather.

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So what it is then? They do the changes based on feedback or they simply pursue their vision regardless of feedback?

Because with healers it seems the latter and it shows because the role is its worst state in the game's history and the changes they do don't tackle the main pain points behind the feedback

Also sorry but logs, percentages and the math behind all the discussion is not a thing that language barrier applies. You don't need to understand japanese or english to see that there is a 1-0 healer clear of ALL the ultimates. You dont need to understand japanese or english to understand a log where it shows that our nuke is over 70% of all of our GCDs.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That's because it's a General forum and the message doesn't know what the specific subject is that you want to bring up, so obviously they direct you to the General one. But if you know a specific category for it, it's likely gonna be better in there where it won't get drowned out so much.

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Yeah definitly if you have a job specific feedback better go to the dps/tank/healer forum and GD for stuff like make stuff wearable for both male and female. I'm just saying that the game itself points the player toward GD for feedback so people are more likely to go there if they don't know better.

We literally, like 2 or 3 weeks ago, just had the benchmark come out. It lead to tons and tons of feedback being posted on this forum about it. The devs responded to that feedback fairly quickly and have shown some fixed examples between now and then and we are getting a fresh, updated benchmark next week. The claim they don't read feedback is specious.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

So what it is then? They do the changes based on feedback or they simply pursue their vision regardless of feedback?

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Literally both. They will listen to feedback but then see if it can fit into their vision or work with their vision.

It is the job of a director to decide what feedback should and should not be listened to. This is necessary. Listening to all feedback blindly would not be good, but ignoring all feedback is not good either. The right director is someone who can figure out what to listen to and what not to. I'd always have said this, but Yoshi-P knows this and has stated this too.

So the answer to your question is neither/both. If you are looking to be critical of this, it would make more sense to criticise their ability to decide/decipher what to, and not to, listen to. Since they are located in Japan and most people in the English forum are not, there is also a language barrier so we can also criticise the ability of the community team to gather feedback well, or alternatively if the feedback is gathered effectively, the ability for that feedback to successfully be translated, received and implemented over in Japan.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

We literally, like 2 or 3 weeks ago, just had the benchmark come out. It lead to tons and tons of feedback being posted on this forum about it. The devs responded to that feedback fairly quickly and have shown some fixed examples between now and then and we are getting a fresh, updated benchmark next week. The claim they don't read feedback is specious.

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Then the situation is even weirder because that means they are just choosing to disregard large parts of the feedback. The backlash to the benchmark was so great they had to do something about it. Healers have been giving suggestions on how to improve the role for YEARS now, many of them really well thought out. None of those have ever even been as much as acknowledged. Even a "we are seeing your feedback but we disagree, our design direction is different" would be better than radio silence and then claiming they "listened to feedback" when implementing largely unwanted changes.

I suppose its harder to ignore 40 pages of feedback made in a single day related to graphical changes than 2 pages of job changes posted in half a week~
We really do be playing a 1 button coom gooning erp game

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Then the situation is even weirder because that means they are just choosing to disregard large parts of the feedback. The backlash to the benchmark was so great they had to do something about it. Healers have been giving suggestions on how to improve the role for YEARS now, many of them really well thought out. None of those have ever even been as much as acknowledged. Even a "we are seeing your feedback but we disagree, our design direction is different" would be better than radio silence and then claiming they "listened to feedback" when implementing largely unwanted changes.

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They have acknowledged healer feedback on more than one occasion. And pretty much each time said healers are where they want them to be. I personally enjoy the simplicity of healing, it’s what I do dailies on just to relax and zone out. We definitely don’t have to like every decision they make, but I wouldn’t say they’ve not been listening to people. They’re just catering heavily to one side, which I assume is because of the rise of new players. The simpler things are the easier they are for new players unfamiliar with the combat system to pick up.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Then the situation is even weirder because that means they are just choosing to disregard large parts of the feedback. The backlash to the benchmark was so great they had to do something about it. Healers have been giving suggestions on how to improve the role for YEARS now, many of them really well thought out. None of those have ever even been as much as acknowledged. Even a "we are seeing your feedback but we disagree, our design direction is different" would be better than radio silence and then claiming they "listened to feedback" when implementing largely unwanted changes.

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They did explain their design decision for healers back in shb.

https://twinfinite.net/features/ffxi...ers-interview/ TL;DR healer balance was dire and they wanted to fix it.

And of course the infamous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRpdIL7_NII&t=17438s

I am also 90% certain they talk about it in the combat pll for shb as well but I am not willing to comb through a 4 hour video to win forum arguments. I am also not willing to comb through dozens of media tour interview videos and articles for the same reason. You can fall down that rabbit hole yourself if you're so desperate for answers.

All that said, I would like for them to address it again because why not?

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

They did explain their design decision for healers back in shb.

https://twinfinite.net/features/ffxi...ers-interview/ TL;DR healer balance was dire and they wanted to fix it.

And of course the infamous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRpdIL7_NII&t=17438s

I am also 90% certain they talk about it in the combat pll for shb as well but I am not willing to comb through a 4 hour video to win forum arguments. I am also not willing to comb through dozens of media tour interview videos and articles for the same reason. You can fall down that rabbit hole yourself if you're so desperate for answers.

All that said, I would like for them to address it again because why not?

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So the logic is the messed up SB lilys so badly that they got rightfully clowned on by the community for what was and still is the worst job mechanic the game has ever given birth to and because they can’t design a healer mechanic to give a damn that is reason to………nuke the entire role from orbit then proceed to ignore the feedback the community gives on not liking it for the next 6 years afterwards

I don’t think this is the kind of dev response people are after

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

So the logic is the messed up SB lilys so badly that they got rightfully clowned on by the community for what was and still is the worst job mechanic the game has ever given birth to and because they can’t design a healer mechanic to give a damn that is reason to………nuke the entire role from orbit then proceed to ignore the feedback the community gives on not liking it for the next 6 years afterwards

I don’t think this is the kind of dev response people are after

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How you feel about the response is up to you! But it's there~

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Literally both. They will listen to feedback but then see if it can fit into their vision or work with their vision.

It is the job of a director to decide what feedback should and should not be listened to. This is necessary. Listening to all feedback blindly would not be good, but ignoring all feedback is not good either. The right director is someone who can figure out what to listen to and what not to. I'd always have said this, but Yoshi-P knows this and has stated this too.

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What is the point of giving feedback then?

Lets assume they have a vision (because what they said in EW about not knowing what to add to Sch suggest the opposite). If they only impose their vision and only take feedback that is in line with that vision, What is there to stop a flawed vision to ruin the game?

If what you say is true then the devs have forgotten about what to do to avoid another disaster like 1.0:

https://i.imgur.com/qS2rMAZ.jpeg

Because by forcing their vision despite the multiple criticism and proof behind that they are not doing (1) (2) and (3)

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

We literally, like 2 or 3 weeks ago, just had the benchmark come out. It lead to tons and tons of feedback being posted on this forum about it. The devs responded to that feedback fairly quickly and have shown some fixed examples between now and then and we are getting a fresh, updated benchmark next week. The claim they don't read feedback is specious.

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You're going to get people debating whether the feedback from the NA/EU players was heard, or if they were only listening to the JP players who had the same complaints.

We've had past evidence that the NA/EU feedback isn't getting to them. The incident that immediately comes to mind is YoshiP referring to players flocking to a single data center for group content in each region as a JP only problem during a live broadcast several months back. Yet that had been the hot topic here in the EN forums with respect to Aether and Chaos for close to 2 months before the broadcast.

So are the developers listening to at least the JP player feedback? Definitely. But it seems unlikely they're paying much attention to feedback from the players outside of JP.

I'll be honest. It's hard to blame them if they aren't. Most of the EN discussions going on aren't really constructive, whether it's here, reddit, or the various social media platforms. The majority of their time trying to sort through what is said would be wasted because we seem to be incapable of doing the one simple thing they've asked us to do - keep all feedback on a single topic in a single thread and don't derail it.

According to some rando on reddit the JP players think they aren't being listened to and it's the dang gaijins getting all the attention.

I think the real answer is they have their priorities and they are going to disregard feedback that goes against them or at best, implement compromise answers. For example, healers been asking for more dps buttons forever, and they got them! Seemingly tied to 2 minute abilities which kinda misses the forest for the trees imo. But if their priority is keeping jobs simple for ease of use by new players then it's a reasonable compromise to come to. It's not actually going to appease the complainers (or me, but my opinion doesn't really matter since nothing outside of adding WHO battlepriest could get me to main healer), but bringing back more intense dps rotations was never in the cards if their top priority is roping in new players and not wanting them to get discouraged.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'll be honest. It's blame them if they aren't. Most of the EN discussions going on aren't really constructive, whether it's here, reddit, or the various social media platforms. The majority of their time trying to sort through what is said would be wasted because we seem to be incapable of doing the one simple thing they've asked us to do - keep all feedback on a single topic in a single thread and don't derail it.

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And that's why I play DPS instead of healer rather then throw my voice into the void. It would exacerbate the issue with queues, if enough people do it then they have to look into the why. Even if no one else swaps over, I'm still having more fun on a role that does what it's designed to do in any content. I also have a disgusting amount of options to chose from.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

What is the point of giving feedback then?

Lets assume they have a vision (because what they said in EW about not knowing what to add to Sch suggest the opposite). If they only impose their vision and only take feedback that is in line with that vision, What is there to stop a flawed vision to ruin the game?

If what you say is true then the devs have forgotten about what to do to avoid another disaster like 1.0:

https://i.imgur.com/qS2rMAZ.jpeg

Because by forcing their vision despite the multiple criticism and proof behind that they are not doing (1) (2) and (3)

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1 - Different players want different things. There is no single vision consensus. SE can't make every player happy in a single game. Their best course of action is to make the game they feel that they are best at making. If there are players not happy with that best, then perhaps it's better that those players move to "Canada" if Canada is offering what they want.

2 - Don't ignore the clarity and vision parts of that statement. Being willing to listen to players doesn't mean their vision will be changed in accordance with what some of those players want. And there's always going to be some issues with clarity when you're dealing with players speaking multiple languages. How clear the vision comes across is going to depend a lot on the accuracy of the interpreters used.

3 - Adapting applies to players just as much as it does to the developers. Again, not all players want the same things out of the game. We need to be willing to compromise on what gets delivered knowing that they're trying to make a game that appeals to more than just our individual selves.

You know where I think they're really getting it wrong? With #4. What developers are playing on the NA and EU realms to understand what things are like here? Let's not forget that their stance on RMT ad spam was "it's not a problem" until YoshiP decided to do one of his walks on a NA realm and got blasted with RMT spam in chat. Suddenly, it became a problem. Let's not forget that YoshiP said that data center travel has only caused problems for the JP data centers even though NA players were also complaining about it long before he made that statement. To the best of my knowledge, he still hasn't acknowledged that it's a problem outside of JP.

The point of feedback is for them to see what is leaving players most unhappy and trying to find ways to address it while staying true to their vision. Because the game will always be their vision. You're going to get a crap game that pleases no one in the end if the developers aren't passionate about what they're making and doing what they feel they do best.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

For example, healers been asking for more dps buttons forever, and they got them!

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Except not all healers have been asking for more DPS buttons. Some of us have been asking for more reasons to heal. If I wanted to do more DPS, I'd be maining DPS in the first place.

Therein lies half the problem. We're not all looking for the same things and yet some will jump to conclusions that because a few players asked for something, everyone was asking for that something. That's almost never the case.

So who do the developers listen to? In the case of healers, they listen to those who want healers to be DPS because they've outright admitted that healing isn't a strength of their job design team. So we're getting more DPS tools while healing itself continues to be ignored.

For those of us who want a good healing experience, not DPS, we're better off going to (or back to) WoW because healing design is mainly ignored in this game in favor of DPS design. At least in WoW you feel valued as a healer and not as Green DPS there solely to resurrect players who can't figure out how to do a mechanic.

That doesn't do this game much good. The matchmaking systems are still designed around the Trinity even if the Trinity isn't strictly needed anymore. How are queues going to get filled when there are very few left willing to queue as healers?

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

What is the point of giving feedback then?

Lets assume they have a vision (because what they said in EW about not knowing what to add to Sch suggest the opposite). If they only impose their vision and only take feedback that is in line with that vision, What is there to stop a flawed vision to ruin the game?

If what you say is true then the devs have forgotten about what to do to avoid another disaster like 1.0:

https://i.imgur.com/qS2rMAZ.jpeg

Because by forcing their vision despite the multiple criticism and proof behind that they are not doing (1) (2) and (3)

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Ok here how it works

Data shows very few people play healer > lets check feedback
Data shows more people play healer > throw feedback to trashcan

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

What is the point of giving feedback then?

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I mean, it's worth a try to give feedback.

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Lets assume they have a vision (because what they said in EW about not knowing what to add to Sch suggest the opposite)

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I would kinda agree about SCH.

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If they only impose their vision and only take feedback that is in line with that vision, What is there to stop a flawed vision to ruin the game?

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The answer to that question is the director. It always has been, is and always will be on the director to process feedback and decide what to, and not to, listen to. Feedback from two different people can contradict eachother and in other cases the feedback may be bad for a reason that most players cannot see or have not thought about. Sometimes listening to feedback can simply cause a game to fall.

It is on the director to draw the line and figure out what they should listen to and what they should ignore. In many cases they get it wrong and the game fails; what was new about Yoshi-P was getting it right for so long causing the game to increase in popularity while other MMORPGs were reducing in popularity.

An easy example as well is WoW was very popular and then they had a lot of changes in their leadership and team structure, which led to a string of decisions that progressively reduced the popularity of the game and caused a lot of them to start playing this (this started long before it went viral in 2021 btw). A simple change of leader can destroy an online game.

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If what you say is true then the devs have forgotten about what to do to avoid another disaster like 1.0

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Who knows if they have forgotten. They do listen to feedback, but obviously it often seems very selective and often confined to the JP audience.

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Because by forcing their vision despite the multiple criticism and proof behind that they are not doing (1) (2) and (3)

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So let's address those points, then.

1 is hard to really address. They either know people are leaving or they don't, but like any company they hold a lot of statistics and do market research/surveys.

2 is referring to keynotes and live letters. Like their vision or not, they present it regularly in slides and hours-long presentations with Yoshi-P himself. They have even taken to asking for feedback directly in the stream occasionally like "are these changes alright?"

3 is where it's on the director to decide what to listen to and what not to. But here are some examples of where they listened and adapted: reversing bowmage, reversing the removal of Energy Drain on Scholar, making healers have more work in Abyssos to the point some healers avoided PF, saying the hitboxes have become to big implying they will be reduced, saying content has become over-telegraphed to the point of not needing to wipe and discuss strategy and vowing to get the team to make it less sleepy.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Except not all healers have been asking for more DPS buttons. Some of us have been asking for more reasons to heal. If I wanted to do more DPS, I'd be maining DPS in the first place.

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But then you have issues with say them "increasing the healing requirements" as what happened with Abyssos. So they can't really increase healing without leading to people leaving the role. Also enemies are getting more hp oer expansion and if healers don't get more dps stuff, it will be a slog. But if you increase only the single target nuke potency, you're just giving more weight to the nuke on a gcd basis.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

reversing the removal of Energy Drain on Scholar

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Well the thing they tried to get rid of it twice both in Stb and Shb.

They do listen if the complaints become exponential, thing is in the end the producer and devs decide if criticism is valid, up for debate, or outright superfluous.

The recent benchmark is a good example, another is the item request/glamour megathreads. Not taking credit, but back in Heavensward I suggested MNKs to use tonfas for more weapon diversity. Uploaded some screenshots of tonfas, and come Stormblood... MNKs got tonfas, and still do to this day! It's coincidence, cool nonetheless. Also saw dye requests like more metallics and some neon colors added over time, same for some glamour options.

For battle content I see is where most of the complaints are centered. An example of this is the hardcore players want jobs and content to stay hard and complex (which unfortunately creates gatekeeping for endgame content once the math nerds min-max everything, playerbase copycats.) Heck, I would LOVE to have FFXI's merit point system to further boost your job abilities and stats, or something from Monster Hunter Rise's gear augment system where you can get things like an additional materia slot or randomized stats.

Then we have some players prefer simplified (which things become far too homogenized and samey). There's demand for "rewarding" midcore content, and the relic grind being tomes was another complaint they did address, so we're getting regular battle content back in DawnTrail.

When I read someone complain "they don't listen", what they're really saying is "they don't listen to me." Not saying anyone's complaints are invalid, it's just how you present it. I personally would like to see the endgame routine shaken up a bit, where there is more than just Savage to gear up your jobs completly.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

I mean the game itself tells you to post feedback here.

Support desk > Contact us > Leave a Suggestion

Feedback and suggestions regarding FFXIV can be posted on the official FFXIV General Discussion forums.

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idk what to tell you then, anytime theres a bug i need to report, i go into the bug report section- if i need to post about housing, i go to the housing forums
or if it's something item or UI related, I go into those forums /shrug

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Except not all healers have been asking for more DPS buttons. Some of us have been asking for more reasons to heal. If I wanted to do more DPS, I'd be maining DPS in the first place.

Therein lies half the problem. We're not all looking for the same things and yet some will jump to conclusions that because a few players asked for something, everyone was asking for that something. That's almost never the case.

So who do the developers listen to? In the case of healers, they listen to those who want healers to be DPS because they've outright admitted that healing isn't a strength of their job design team. So we're getting more DPS tools while healing itself continues to be ignored.

For those of us who want a good healing experience, not DPS, we're better off going to (or back to) WoW because healing design is mainly ignored in this game in favor of DPS design. At least in WoW you feel valued as a healer and not as Green DPS there solely to resurrect players who can't figure out how to do a mechanic.

That doesn't do this game much good. The matchmaking systems are still designed around the Trinity even if the Trinity isn't strictly needed anymore. How are queues going to get filled when there are very few left willing to queue as healers?

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Doesn’t this point pretty much agree with the concept they aren’t listening to healer feedback

Let’s take you as a representation of the “I want to heal more” group and have less focus on DPS, you aren’t getting what you want because everything is designed around spending GCD’s on attacks and healing with oGCD’s, let’s take me as a group that wants more complex DPS options (not mutually exclusive btw), I’m not getting what I want because my damage options are still 111111111111

Who is this job design actually benefitting, it’s not even a compromise because both sides hate it rather than “well it’s better than giving everything to the other side”

Then if they ever give vague notions they are following feedback they seem to mention feeling happy with the current position of them……..based on what, who wants the current healer design

In regards to healer feedback... I feel the devs don't put much stock in it because there's still plenty of healers.

As terrible as I think the design is, people still play them, the numbers look fine, so they don't change anything.

Furthermore, depending on how they look at feedback, it is easy to find whatever suits their own taste and say they are listening. That is the nature of not having a good system of providing feedback.

For all the bad faith they earned. Wizards of the coast has had an excellent system for feedback. A fourm for every class. It ask how you feel about the class, how much you played that class and how much you've played d&d as a whole. The fourm ask about the overall feel of the class and its power, but also each individual class ability and spell with extra text boxes for more detailed information and reasoning.

If the xiv developers made a similar fourm, they'd have a much deeper understanding about how people feel about jobs and where the pain points of the jobs are.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

They do listen if the complaints become exponential, thing is in the end the producer and devs decide if criticism is valid, up for debate, or outright superfluous.

The recent benchmark is a good example, another is the item request/glamour megathreads. Not taking credit, but back in Heavensward I suggested MNKs to use tonfas for more weapon diversity. Uploaded some screenshots of tonfas, and come Stormblood... MNKs got tonfas, and still do to this day! It's coincidence, cool nonetheless. Also saw dye requests like more metallics and some neon colors added over time, same for some glamour options.

For battle content I see is where most of the complaints are centered. An example of this is the hardcore players want jobs and content to stay hard and complex (which unfortunately creates gatekeeping for endgame content once the math nerds min-max everything, playerbase copycats.) Heck, I would LOVE to have FFXI's merit point system to further boost your job abilities and stats, or something from Monster Hunter Rise's gear augment system where you can get things like an additional materia slot or randomized stats.

Then we have some players prefer simplified (which things become far too homogenized and samey). There's demand for "rewarding" midcore content, and the relic grind being tomes was another complaint they did address, so we're getting regular battle content back in DawnTrail.

When I read someone complain "they don't listen", what they're really saying is "they don't listen to me." Not saying anyone's complaints are invalid, it's just how you present it. I personally would like to see the endgame routine shaken up a bit, where there is more than just Savage to gear up your jobs completly.

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You bring up a good point with the type of feedback they listen to, and why it confuses me when people say they don’t listen. It seems like they make it a point to give us things unrelated to combat and respond to those suggestions. But when it comes to gameplay design they have their own philosophy and plans and have to consider how much player feedback would require them to alter those things. Like I remember them saying at some point the 2 minute meta happened because of player feedback, and now they’re seeing feedback that people don’t like it and they’re confused about what we want. Basically at the end of the day they can’t please everyone. I’m just glad they listen to us at all, and communicate with us regularly, even if people don’t always like what they say or catch when they do respond to their concerns.

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Originally Posted by posona

You bring up a good point with the type of feedback they listen to, and why it confuses me when people say they don’t listen. It seems like they make it a point to give us things unrelated to combat and respond to those suggestions. But when it comes to gameplay design they have their own philosophy and plans and have to consider how much player feedback would require them to alter those things. Like I remember them saying at some point the 2 minute meta happened because of player feedback, and now they’re seeing feedback that people don’t like it and they’re confused about what we want. Basically at the end of the day they can’t please everyone. I’m just glad they listen to us at all, and communicate with us regularly, even if people don’t always like what they say or catch when they do respond to their concerns.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...sil_game_show/

IGN Brasil asked about 2 mins meta and homogenization of jobs:

Yoshida: " "That's a difficult question," begins Yoshi-P. "We have skill rotations varying between 60 and 120 seconds for the most intense phases and that's how it works currently. But the reason it's like this today is that we've received, in the past, feedback from all over the world saying that the timing of fights were difficult, it was difficult to align skills between classes, we were asked to unify everything, and precisely because we received these requests to homogenize this, we homogenized it"."

Yoshida: "We're okay with making things a little crazy and having different timings between all the classes, but again, we made these changes because we got feedback that it was too difficult before. We understand that there are two types of players, so going forward, Regardless of whether we change this or not, the community needs to reach a consensus: what is better? Before changing something we need to get feedback from everyone", concludes Yoshi-P, reiterating that feedback through official means is taken into account by the developer.

Unsure if this was also said by Yoshida or if this is IGN editorialising but...

In fact, in past expansions like Heavensward and Stormblood the design of fights and classes were very different from how it is today. Just look at classes that have completely changed from their original versions, like Summoner, Astrologian, Bard, and Machinist. Furthermore, the design of the bosses and the arenas in which fights take place were different, which created different situations - and functions - between melee and ranged classes. There are those who say that having the game less "on track" is more fun - and Yoshi-P is not against this idea, but there is a balance that needs to be discussed.

Although hardcore players make up the majority of those who complain about how FF14's combat has become homogenized over the years, there is a significant portion of players, who we can consider as intermediates, who may not dedicate themselves to the more difficult encounters as diligently, but who do want to challenge themselves to overcome the game's most difficult fights and engage more frequently with the combat system than others who really stick more to the non-combat options offered by the MMO.

Thanks for the quote! I couldn’t remember where it came from so wasn’t sure how to find it for clarification.

That's always funny seeing them justifying a divisive choice afterward and say people need to come to a consensus. Then why did you radically change it to satisfy one side anyway? duh. And weirdly enough it's always the same subset of the playerbase that has to eat the crow. oops.

Things like this are just infuriating to read at times.

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Originally Posted by Valence

That's always funny seeing them justifying a divisive choice afterward and say people need to come to a consensus. Then why did you radically change it to satisfy one side anyway? duh. And weirdly enough it's always the same subset of the playerbase that has to eat the crow. oops.

Things like this are just infuriating to read at times.

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The complaint about abilities among classes being hard to align had been around for a few expansions, and it was really only a complaint among people who were engaging in the most difficult combat content. But they complained very loudly and once the world first races really got a lot of publicity on streaming sites I feel they tried to give those players more of what they wanted than the rest of the community.

Funny that when their golden child twitch streamers complain loudly they immediately change the game. But us peasants who constitute a big number of subscriptions want something it's flat out ignored or "we want to change or add the thing you want 3+ years from now; even though you wanted these changes 3+ years ago."