No New MMO Yet From Square? Why Havent They Seized The Moment?

I'm curious to know why Square hasn't positioned itself to take over the mmo market with a new MMO yet. With FF14 being built on the old Crystal Engine and extremely limited by it, and with all the lessons learned from 10+ years of development on it, and with a large portion of the MMO community at large focused on Square, why haven't we seen SE seize the moment?

The market is ready for a new major MMO to take the scene and corner the market for the next 10 years.

WoW is in decline, classic is more popular than retail, and will continue to be so.
ESO is forgettable.
BDO / Korean MMOs dont fare well in the west because nobody wants to gamble/p2w
GW2 has all but died out, with no hope that arenanet makes a GW3
All the alpha mmos (CU, Pantheon, Ashes) are nothing more than vaporware for 7+ years


The time is now, and it baffles me why square hasn't took the initiative to secure the market with a well made, competent mmo that's running on an updated engine with the lessons they've learned from ff14.

I fear they are, or have already lost the initiative to really secure a large dynasty mmo, and as records show, competently made mmos are one of the most secure forms of profit available to gaming companies.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

I'm curious to know why Square hasn't positioned itself to take over the mmo market with a new MMO yet. With FF14 being built on the old Crystal Engine and extremely limited by it, and with all the lessons learned from 10+ years of development on it, and with a large portion of the MMO community at large focused on Square, why haven't we seen SE seize the moment?

The market is ready for a new major MMO to take the scene and corner the market for the next 10 years.

WoW is in decline, classic is more popular than retail, and will continue to be so.
ESO is forgettable.
BDO / Korean MMOs dont fare well in the west because nobody wants to gamble/p2w
GW2 has all but died out, with no hope that arenanet makes a GW3
All the alpha mmos (CU, Pantheon, Ashes) are nothing more than vaporware for 7+ years


The time is now, and it baffles me why square hasn't took the initiative to secure the market with a well made, competent mmo that's running on an updated engine with the lessons they've learned from ff14.

I fear they are, or have already lost the initiative to really secure a large dynasty mmo, and as records show, competently made mmos are one of the most secure forms of profit available to gaming companies.

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I cant speak for anything else in that list but WoW

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WoW is in decline, classic is more popular than retail, and will continue to be so

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Is extremely false actually, but you do you lol.

WoW retail has been very stable this expansion, one of the most stable ever if anything and the player retention is actually good.

https://www.dexerto.com/world-of-war...zzard-2217897/

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The company noted as much when mentioning that “subscriber retention in the West remains higher than at the equivalent stage of recent Modern expansions.” It probably helps that WoW’s development team is “delivering more content faster than ever before.”

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Which also has been proven by subscriber numbers on various websites.

Because MMO's are on a downhill path. Every MMO is struggling to maintain players. !Good! Single player games with no additional purchases and no platform restrictions are on the rise currently.

Why would they invest money in developing a new MMORPG when FF14 is still very profitable and beating out all the other MMORPGs available? They would just be competing with themselves and would ultimately lose money to development costs. Sure they could produce something better, but what ultimately matters in the long run is what would be more profitable and so it's in their best interests to continue milking FF14 for now.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

being built on the old Crystal Engine and extremely limited by it

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There is no evidence for that claim. FF16 is built on the same engine as far as we know and the graphics are a million times better. They limit it all on purpose so that it can work on consoles and on PC take into account average GPUs and that it has to work for a varying number of players and their activities such as attacks and glamours.

They showed a picture of how realistic they could make character faces and then said it will be this toned down version instead in case there are hundreds of players in the area.

But the graphics are being upgraded to 1080p with better shaders aiming for a 2060 GPU for max settings. The new expansion will have more polygons but they still limit them on purpose so that nothing has more polygons than something else, which was a problem in 1.0 where some models looked more detailed than others and seemed out of place.

They do have all these issues with physical servers, such as carrying items with you from one server to another. Given they are testing cloud servers soon, they could be used to eliminate many of those issues. Because I believe many of those issues are not related to the engine, but rather the fact they use physical servers instead of cloud servers and have the task of physically transferring data to other physical servers, something that cloud servers have worked out already.

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why haven't we seen SE seize the moment?

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Because whether people like it or not, that is clearly their aim with FFXIV.

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The market is ready for a new major MMO to take the scene and corner the market for the next 10 years.

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Maybe and obviously the new MMORPGs with extremely realistic graphics have changed people's perspective on what the future top MMORPG will be but have any of them really lasted? We will just have to see there.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

I'm curious to know why Square hasn't positioned itself to take over the mmo market with a new MMO yet. With FF14 being built on the old Crystal Engine and extremely limited by it, and with all the lessons learned from 10+ years of development on it, and with a large portion of the MMO community at large focused on Square, why haven't we seen SE seize the moment?

The market is ready for a new major MMO to take the scene and corner the market for the next 10 years.

WoW is in decline, classic is more popular than retail, and will continue to be so.
ESO is forgettable.
BDO / Korean MMOs dont fare well in the west because nobody wants to gamble/p2w
GW2 has all but died out, with no hope that arenanet makes a GW3
All the alpha mmos (CU, Pantheon, Ashes) are nothing more than vaporware for 7+ years


The time is now, and it baffles me why square hasn't took the initiative to secure the market with a well made, competent mmo that's running on an updated engine with the lessons they've learned from ff14.

I fear they are, or have already lost the initiative to really secure a large dynasty mmo, and as records show, competently made mmos are one of the most secure forms of profit available to gaming companies.

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Risk vs. reward. Why would SE risk large amounts of capital on creating a new MMO which might not succeed when they can milk the current FFXIV playerbase for everything they're worth? All SE has to do is release a new glam or a mount and FFXIV players will be scrambling over each other to be the first ones to purchase it. No need for SE to make another MMO when they can already rake in the cash like this. TLDR: SE firmly believes in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

There is no moment to seize.

At this point, a remake of FFXI seems more possible than an entirely new FF MMORPG.

Having 3 mmo games is probably already hard for them to maintain they probably might not make a 4th one. They already have ff11 dragon quest 10 and ff14 even though ff11 is most likely in permanant maintenance mode now and dq10 is Japanese only it would still be hard to juggle the current mmo's and a 4th.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I cant speak for anything else in that list but WoW



Is extremely false actually, but you do you lol.

WoW retail has been very stable this expansion, one of the most stable ever if anything and the player retention is actually good.

https://www.dexerto.com/world-of-war...zzard-2217897/



Which also has been proven by subscriber numbers on various websites.

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WoW is absolute garbage through and through. Blizzard is a repulsive corporation and it shows constantly. I am sorry you didn't escape the indoctrination process.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

WoW is absolute garbage through and through. Blizzard is a repulsive corporation and it shows constantly. I am sorry you didn't escape the indoctrination process.

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Just like Square Enix indoctrinated you to defend them at the mere mention of another mmo or someone says something about the game you don't like. World of warcraft is treated as the Voldemort "He who shall not be named" of the ff14 community and it's funny how tribalistic some people get over there favorite media. All games and companies can learn from one another and take ideas from other games/companies it creates competition.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

WoW is absolute garbage through and through. Blizzard is a repulsive corporation and it shows constantly. I am sorry you didn't escape the indoctrination process.

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Straight to ad hominem, nice.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Straight to ad hominem, nice.

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They only jump into threads as the defense force of the game/company because how dare people name another game/company or criticize the game.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

WoW is absolute garbage through and through. Blizzard is a repulsive corporation and it shows constantly. I am sorry you didn't escape the indoctrination process.

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Whenever I see comments like this I have to wonder, when was the last time you looked up anything about Blizzard Activision? Or are you just WOW bad FFXIV good cuz it's the cool thing to do?

I think is nothing short of a miracle that XI and XIV (and a DQ one I think) are still running.

Avengers went belly up, that bizarre ff7 flavored fortnite-like died super quickly and that one co-op game whose name I forgot also tanked in a few months.
Square is probably terrified of such a big risk, specially when a couple of low effort cellphone games can keep them in the green.

They are also more trend chasers than setters now, I fully expect their next online venture to be closer to something like Genshin rather than a traditional or original idea.

Too bad the XI "remake" never happened. I'm still curious what would have happened.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

WoW is absolute garbage through and through. Blizzard is a repulsive corporation and it shows constantly. I am sorry you didn't escape the indoctrination process.

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Just because you don't like it doesn't make it complete garbage.
Also, that attitude is a prime example of how many see the WoW community acting like.
Bashing on anything that doesn't suit their own personal point of view.
(I thought the FFXIV community was better than this. /s)
Clearly it's a good game in general, seeing how it has managed to stay active for so long and still is the top dog among MMOs.

Blizz however, they used to be good too. But it's as the saying goes, "Either you die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

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Originally Posted by Reap00

WoW is absolute garbage through and through.

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I would have said the same thing from the end of Wrath to very recently but I gave Dragonflight a shot and it's actually alright. Still not my cup of tea for a variety of reasons like the boring combat and the awful writing, but as a whole it's not bad. FFXIV could learn a thing or two from DF, like having more engaging content out in the zones. I thought DF's zones being full of little events and hidden treasures was pretty neat. The first time I got one shot by Fyrrak out of nowhere in that centaur plains area I laughed out loud.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

They only jump into threads as the defense force of the game/company because how dare people name another game/company or criticize the game.

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Yeah lol, it's pretty unfortunate this is quite common on the official forums.

Didn't the interest in GW2 go up so much they are planning a few more expansions? That's what I heard at least. Still hoping for a console port or at least official controller support.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Didn't the interest in GW2 go up so much they are planning a few more expansions? That's what I heard at least. Still hoping for a console port or at least official controller support.

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It's obvious that this thread is a bait.

It's already been said, but... if SE were to release a new modern MMO anytime in the foreseeable future, their biggest competitor would be themselves. And, there's always the risk of another 'FFXI to 1.0 FFXIV' situation. SE is REALLY good at making bad decisions when it comes to tanked investments, and I'd really rather not encourage that trend further.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

FFXIV could learn a thing or two from DF, like having more engaging content out in the zones. I thought DF's zones being full of little events and hidden treasures was pretty neat.

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Big agree. XIV desperately needs to bring it's zone content up to snuff.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Yeah lol, it's pretty unfortunate this is quite common on the official forums.

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It is common on the forums and internet in general media tribalism is really annoying and it's something I imagine immature children do but gaming/anime/console tribalism I imagine is people in there 30's and 40's acting like adult children throwing tantrums.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Yeah lol, it's pretty unfortunate this is quite common on the official forums.

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I wonder if the group here realizes the irony of comments like this (or if they just couldn't care less about distorting reality). One guy comes in and comments bad things about WoW, four of you jump on him (supporting the very comment he was making), continue high-fiving each other, and then claim the "common" thing on the forums is defending SE? Just wow. (Hint: The only "common" thing around here is getting ganged up on for daring to say anything positive about the game and not perpetuating the negative echo chamber.)

To the original topic, whether it's a bait post or not, the simple reality is that MMO's are no longer the "king" of gaming like they were 10-15 years ago. Mobile games, MOBA's, and P2W have become the dominant forces at present. The amount of cost that would go into developing a brand new MMO compared to the risks of it failing in the current gaming environment are likely just not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

It is common on the forums and internet in general media tribalism is really annoying and it's something I imagine immature children do but gaming/anime/console tribalism I imagine is people in there 30's and 40's acting like adult children throwing tantrums.

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Oh yeah, I don't doubt it at all. Some of the older players might have been around their favorite game for a long time and are very partial to it and end up being the ones getting the most defensive.

aside from the people trying to derail the thread...

while I dislike WoW after years of it, they are doing "better" since they decided to actually put some effort into their cash cow. Its nothing I would ever want to go back to however... like.. ever. However they are viewed they did manage to poison the well for many people from MMO's to their stellar handling of Overwatch 2.

I suspect that the reason SE isnt diving in with a new MMO is they take time to create. They also likely have research showing that they are not the cash inflow that they used to be and that the market could not support another. But hey OP, if it IS such a great opportunity, I am sure you have an idea that would float so, go for it! If you get the funding for it anyway

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Originally Posted by Striker44

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Jumped on him? This thread has been pretty tame. He was the one who came in with random hate.
People responding to him doesn't = jumping on him. There's maybe one or 2 people that I would say maybe you could argue jumped on him.

And honestly these forums are a rotating door. It's not just one sides fault more than the other. The toxic positivity group tries to shut down any complaint about the game and the negativity group respond in kind.
Neither of the 2 groups are saints. You just notice the opposite more depending on what camp you're in.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I wonder if the group here realizes the irony of comments like this (or if they just couldn't care less about distorting reality). One guy comes in and comments bad things about WoW, four of you jump on him (supporting the very comment he was making), continue high-fiving each other, and then claim the "common" thing on the forums is defending SE? Just wow. (Hint: The only "common" thing around here is getting ganged up on for daring to say anything positive about the game and not perpetuating the negative echo chamber.)

To the original topic, whether it's a bait post or not, the simple reality is that MMO's are no longer the "king" of gaming like they were 10-15 years ago. Mobile games, MOBA's, and P2W have become the dominant forces at present. The amount of cost that would go into developing a brand new MMO compared to the risks of it failing in the current gaming environment are likely just not worth it.

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The person being 'ganged' up on as you say it just came into the thread to spew hateful remarks and accuse another player of being 'indoctrinated' by blizzard.

The real irony is that person being defended by you with such a statement.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Risk vs. reward. Why would SE risk large amounts of capital on creating a new MMO which might not succeed when they can milk the current FFXIV playerbase for everything they're worth? All SE has to do is release a new glam or a mount and FFXIV players will be scrambling over each other to be the first ones to purchase it. No need for SE to make another MMO when they can already rake in the cash like this. TLDR: SE firmly believes in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

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This is the current answer. FFXIV just saw the largest surge of players in its history this expansion. There is zero incentive whatsoever to invest in a new MMO that will likely cost hundreds of millions with no guarantee they'll convince the existing FFXIV playerbase to move over. Even announcing a new FF MMO basically signals to people that FFXIV won't see as much attention. So even on the off chance they are considering a third FF MMO, we're not going to hear a single word about it for at least another 5-6 years.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I wonder if the group here realizes the irony of comments like this (or if they just couldn't care less about distorting reality). One guy comes in and comments bad things about WoW, four of you jump on him (supporting the very comment he was making), continue high-fiving each other, and then claim the "common" thing on the forums is defending SE? Just wow. (Hint: The only "common" thing around here is getting ganged up on for daring to say anything positive about the game and not perpetuating the negative echo chamber.)

To the original topic, whether it's a bait post or not, the simple reality is that MMO's are no longer the "king" of gaming like they were 10-15 years ago. Mobile games, MOBA's, and P2W have become the dominant forces at present. The amount of cost that would go into developing a brand new MMO compared to the risks of it failing in the current gaming environment are likely just not worth it.

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Really ready to defend anything that goes agaisnt me eh ?

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Originally Posted by Reap00

WoW is absolute garbage through and through. Blizzard is a repulsive corporation and it shows constantly. I am sorry you didn't escape the indoctrination process.

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Surely this person has good intentions towards me, thank you for telling me, I am sure they really care about me.

Utterly delusional. Just because you don't like a certain MMO and don't play it yourself doesn't mean it's dead. I can't comment on all the games you mentioned, but FFXIV, WoW, ESO and GW2 are thriving. ESO puts out expansions regularly, and just today I got an e-mail from them about some kind of new endless roguelike dungeon mode. GW2 released a new expansion not long ago, and announced plans to ramp up the regularity of new content by putting out "mini-expansions" every year.

Even if every other MMO were dead, FFXIV is insanely profitable and it will remain Square Enix's most profitable game for years. There is no "moment" to seize. Why would they compete with themselves by making a new MMO now?

I don't know about the OP, but I enjoy lots of mmos.

ESO (I can make alts for days on that game and just replay the stories over and over again. so much fun)
SWTOR (Best story mmorpg by far, and one of the few sci-fi ones)
FFXIV (not much to say)
GW2 (sometimes)

Oddly enough, all the newer MMOs I'm just not a fan of, and WoW is really only for WoW players. I'd love to enjoy WoW, but the push to make everyone only play the newest content isn't for me.

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Originally Posted by Cach

I think is nothing short of a miracle that XI and XIV (and a DQ one I think) are still running.

Avengers went belly up, that bizarre ff7 flavored fortnite-like died super quickly and that one co-op game whose name I forgot also tanked in a few months.
Square is probably terrified of such a big risk, specially when a couple of low effort cellphone games can keep them in the green.

They are also more trend chasers than setters now, I fully expect their next online venture to be closer to something like Genshin rather than a traditional or original idea.

Too bad the XI "remake" never happened. I'm still curious what would have happened.

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Avengers honestly was just poorly executed as it attempted to copy Destiny's playstyle.

As for the next online venture being more Genshin/BotW in nature, I could see that for a new Mana series entry. That kind of open world play style just feels like the next natural step for that particular franchise.

The XI remake wasn't really slated to be an actual remake, More just a remaster to facelift all the visuals since it started as a PS2 game. However there are rumors floating around that they're currently working on an offline version of the title to provide to people when the online servers finally get taken down.

Dragon Quest X also has had rumors floating around about finally being made available outside of Japan. These picked up considerably after a DQ streaming event where they announced an offline version of the game that contained all the content excluding I think the 2 or 3 most recent expansions which was intended to be a way for new players in Japan to essentially catch up without paying the sub since upon completing it, the player had the option to create or link an SE account and port the character into online servers to play the rest of the game. Keep in mind DQX also has an unlimited free trial similar to FFXIV and some in game systems designed to help speed players along the earlier parts of the game as well such as the angel slime hat campaign.

SE also had Front Mission Online back in the PlayOnline days before SE accounts existed which sadly got taken down, though it never left Japan.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

with no guarantee they'll convince the existing FFXIV playerbase to move over.

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Yeah, this too. Some of the more diehard fans have probably sunk tens of thousands of hours into this game as well as hundreds of dollars into glams and mounts. They'll probably be hesitant to abandon that all unless SE allows some things to transfer over.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Even announcing a new FF MMO basically signals to people that FFXIV won't see as much attention.

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I can actually see some FFXIV players even opposing the idea of a new SE MMO because that means their favorite game will no longer be on SE's pedestal

Yeah, WoW is not on the decline and still the MMO King (I don't play it though).

XVII may be an MMO

XI was revealed when IX and X were.

IX
X
XI
XII
XIII
XIV
XV
XVI
XVII?

Who they gonna put on it though? Think it will be a new face because I don't see anyone part of SE losing 2 billion dollars being part of a new MMO lol, which has been their cash cows.

Given the history of PlatinumGames, it's no wonder that Babylon's Fall didn't work out.

Marvel's Avengers was probably the prime reason Square Enix sold Crystal Dynamics to the Embracer Group.

As for a new MMORPG, the Inverse article from last year makes it clear: https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final...uminaries-2022

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I cant speak for anything else in that list but WoW



Is extremely false actually, but you do you lol.

WoW retail has been very stable this expansion, one of the most stable ever if anything and the player retention is actually good.

https://www.dexerto.com/world-of-war...zzard-2217897/



Which also has been proven by subscriber numbers on various websites.

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No one knows subscriber numbers and WoW doesn't separate sub numbers so WTF are you talking about. Player retention doesn't mean much when your game was at its LOWEST point after last expansion basically if they stayed through that disaster they probably aren't leaving, retail has a huge amount of raid loggers vs classic doesn't and classic seems to have a tighter community because of the nature of the game over retail. Both will have rises and falls but the biggest difference is retail can go play classic on top of retail, classic cannot play retail unless they buy the expansion. WoW forums pretty much is agreeance that classic is the more popular titles atm mainly due to its hardcore server being about 2 months old, now will it last probably not. Just like everything it iwll have huge influx slowly die off the level at a certain point.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

With FF14 being built on the old Crystal Engine and extremely limited by it...

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1.x was built on Crystal Tools. ARR and onward was not. The game was rebuilt into a wholly new engine -- a simplified derivative of Luminous, the same engine XV and XVI run on (though each likewise on different derivatives thereof).

Remember that "Final Fantasy XIV" will interchangeably refer to 1.x, specifically --as that's the period before any subtitle was attached-- and the ongoing game. I'd say "you could have just Googled this..." but it also might require the tiniest bit of critical thought and actually opening one of those links (rather than relying just on the Google quick-answer).

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WoW is in decline, classic is more popular than retail, and will continue to be so.

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WoW is presently performing more healthily than it has since... WotLK? Its player retention over the course of its expansion and between patches is weirdly high for an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I cant speak for anything else in that list but WoW



Is extremely false actually, but you do you lol.

WoW retail has been very stable this expansion, one of the most stable ever if anything and the player retention is actually good.

https://www.dexerto.com/world-of-war...zzard-2217897/



Which also has been proven by subscriber numbers on various websites.

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Kinda sad that all it took was an above average expansion for them to come crawling back lol
i played it on launch and really wasn't impressed as someone who's played since 2005, it was just the same old same old

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Kinda sad that all it took was an above average expansion for them to come crawling back lol
i played it on launch and really wasn't impressed as someone who's played since 2005, it was just the same old same old

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I'm not surprised, since that's exactly what people were asking for. No borrowed power, return to proper talent trees, fun side activities, longterm grinds that are however completely optional, basically just what older expansions offered but with a new twist to them.
Their rework to crafting also actually allows crafters to make endgame viable gear.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Yeah, this too. Some of the more diehard fans have probably sunk tens of thousands of hours into this game as well as hundreds of dollars into glams and mounts. They'll probably be hesitant to abandon that all unless SE allows some things to transfer over.

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My guess is they won't, citizen. Why let players transfer old items to the new MMO when Square can just have them spend more by making them buy all new items? That sounds like something Square would do.




We serve so others do not have to.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

I'm curious to know why Square hasn't positioned itself to take over the mmo market with a new MMO yet. With FF14 being built on the old Crystal Engine and extremely limited by it, and with all the lessons learned from 10+ years of development on it, and with a large portion of the MMO community at large focused on Square, why haven't we seen SE seize the moment?

The market is ready for a new major MMO to take the scene and corner the market for the next 10 years.

WoW is in decline, classic is more popular than retail, and will continue to be so.
ESO is forgettable.
BDO / Korean MMOs dont fare well in the west because nobody wants to gamble/p2w
GW2 has all but died out, with no hope that arenanet makes a GW3
All the alpha mmos (CU, Pantheon, Ashes) are nothing more than vaporware for 7+ years


The time is now, and it baffles me why square hasn't took the initiative to secure the market with a well made, competent mmo that's running on an updated engine with the lessons they've learned from ff14.

I fear they are, or have already lost the initiative to really secure a large dynasty mmo, and as records show, competently made mmos are one of the most secure forms of profit available to gaming companies.

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MMO games are extremely expensive to develop and even more expensive to maintain with no guarantee of success. The genre overall is experiencing a bit of a decline these years - not even necessarily because there're no good projects, but at the very least because the way people now prefer to experience their games has significantly changed over the course of last 10 years or so.

FF14 being as big as it got is already a miracle to be honest, and part of the reason to that (aside from the game being good) is that the game is generally done in a way where you don't need to be online for more that a couple of hours per week - something that is still relatively rare for the market of classic MMOs.

There's also the fact that despite all complaints about Endwalker, the game is overall on its highest rise at the moment. There's simply little reason to allocating enormous funds and recources to a new MMO project that can end up being a fluke (and would damage their reputation as a developer further if that happens), when this one is as successful as it currently is. FF11 is still running too (and apparently even started getting updates again after being in a maintenance mode for a while, from what I've gathered).

As things stand at the moment, they'll fare better by keeping their focus on FF14 while making new single player titles on the side, at least for another few years if not more.