Tank new role action idea

Okay so I had this idea just about now I was doing Dzemael darkhold and I start pulling wall to wall but there is those range enemies that are far away and snipe me out of my aoes because they aren't dumb they got range that I dont but I was wondering what if tank could have a Grappling Hook or Something like healer Rescue but to snatch an enemy from its position and drag it to you This action would not work on bosses tho for obvious reasons. I know its sound quite useless but I can see a good potential of mechs based on that where tanks have to snatch an add away or something like that

Let me know what you guys think

drag the mobs to them??

?_?

or exploit wall LoS...

we dont need to dumb the game down further

What the poster above me said.

If the enemy can't attack you because a wall or object is in the way, it runs right to you. If there are no walls you can just drag the mobs to them.

SE stopped making enemies like that anyway, as far as I remember. It just remains for old dungeons, particularly from ARR.

There's already Blota in PvP on Warrior, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it eventually make back into PvE.

I really liked this in Aion. I can see some uses for it, like when you have overzealous DPS that really burst on mobs during a pull.

But honestly it's not that needed. In Dzamael you can just run a bit further and the ranged mobs start clustering, even at the last spot with the skeletons, just pull everything and run towards the little raised area south west of the teleport entrance, wait till they come together.

Holmgang used to do that after it was changed from a distance bind with a come at me bro hand taunt to the chaining up the enemy invuln. But its ranged was like 6y at best.

WHM and MCH used to be able to use Fluid Aura and Blank to knock enemies out of place/into place too. I used to love WHMs who did that for me if a pull didn't have an easy corner to abuse for the mentioned LoS.

Even if dungeons stop having corners to LoS ranged mobs to come to you, you can always center all the other mobs on the ranged mob. You don't always have to, and it's not always most efficient, to keep moving a pull until you hit the literal wall.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

drag the mobs to them??

?_?

or exploit wall LoS...

we dont need to dumb the game down further

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What is LoS

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Holmgang used to do that after it was changed from a distance bind with a come at me bro hand taunt to the chaining up the enemy invuln. But its ranged was like 6y at best.

WHM and MCH used to be able to use Fluid Aura and Blank to knock enemies out of place/into place too. I used to love WHMs who did that for me if a pull didn't have an easy corner to abuse for the mentioned LoS.

Even if dungeons stop having corners to LoS ranged mobs to come to you, you can always center all the other mobs on the ranged mob. You don't always have to, and it's not always most efficient, to keep moving a pull until you hit the literal wall.

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Yes its true that now that you mention it ranged monster stick to you in newer content as for the knockback skill I didn't know it ever existed that pretty cool tho it worked like machinist PvP knock?

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Originally Posted by Noox-115

What is LoS

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Line of sight.

2 ways to deal with ranged in old content.

1. KLOSE - Konga Line of Stupidity Effect. Means you LoS your targets. Get around a wall and they all line up and stop immediately when LoS is established.

2. Reversal - run ahead and pull melee with you and then flip 180 and beeline it to the ranged. Now ranged is in melee and the melee pile on the ranged.

gorefiend's grasp would be fun

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Originally Posted by Alaray

gorefiend's grasp would be fun

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Dunno why I read that as "girlfriend grasp".

In a lot of games tanks have some sort of "pull" skill to bring the mobs closer, but haven't they stopped adding ranged mobs after 71+ anyway?

Honestly I don't think this whole "grappling hook" is that good. Sure it can be handy but besides one....occasion it might be so situation that it's a waste of space in your already bloated skill bar. Plus we have octillion aoes that we don't need a grappling hook: just aoe once and they're glued to you like flies on honey. Also 99% of enemies aren't ranged or attack close to you even when ranged already, making a grappling hook pointless.

Instead how about giving tanks more active mitigation abilities instead of boring passive CDs that reduces damage for X seconds?

Imagine warrior's rage bar used to empower bloodwhetting in some fun ways (higher damage reduction for higher stacks, or higher parry/dodge rating)
Or Paladin's sheltron dealing damage back when they have max power bar - or longer duration too.

I dunno, just something more than pressing one button and having less damage for X seconds could be an interesting idea...

In Dzemael Darkhold, you can drag everything to the purple light around the Magitek Terminal and then hide in the very corner to block the ghosts' line of sight (LoS) and make them follow you into the light. Run back out of the corner and to the Magitek Terminal after they're in range; if you stay in the corner too long you might also LoS the healer if they're not aware of what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Dunno why I read that as "girlfriend grasp".

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Because that sounds like a Renalt thing.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Because that sounds like a Renalt thing.

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Not really. Renalt is maidenless! : - p

dunno why all the complaints, i think it'd be fun and has very mortal combat-y "get over here" vibes. i like it. if it does a little damage then it could also be used between gcd for a little extra dps.

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Originally Posted by Noox-115

Okay so I had this idea just about now I was doing Dzemael darkhold and I start pulling wall to wall but there is those range enemies that are far away and snipe me out of my aoes because they aren't dumb they got range that I dont but I was wondering what if tank could have a Grappling Hook or Something like healer Rescue but to snatch an enemy from its position and drag it to you This action would not work on bosses tho for obvious reasons. I know its sound quite useless but I can see a good potential of mechs based on that where tanks have to snatch an add away or something like that

Let me know what you guys think

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/approve but unfortunately it would be useless when it's fun, for example on a boss.
Right now it's boring to see bosses that auto-adjust their position for some skill or are placed as walls, it diminishes the role (and fun) of the tank.

In the first large pull of Darkhold when you get to the big open room with the caster enemies pull them all then run right into the corner as tight as you can of the blue area, then a few seconds later the ranged enemies will come closer, then you can run back to them with the melee enemies and attack them all together whilst staying in the blue area safe zone.

Before the 2nd boss you can line of sight the enemies behind a wall forcing them to come to melee range to attack you.

The attack you are requesting is already in the game...if you play Blue mage of course.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

we dont need to dumb the game down further

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Oh come on, in no way is giving Tanks more tools for positioning mobs "dumbing the game down further".

In the heyday of MMOs actually making threatening Dungeon-style content, these sorts of tools were commonplace (WOW Death Grip, SWTOR literally "Grappling Hook", etc, etc, etc... not sure if the even earlier-gens like EQ and FFXI did anything similar).

It's a pretty basic design concept: "What if, instead of you moving to mob... mob move to — you???" (gasps of amazement)

And in, for example, current WOW, having tools like Grip, and using them effectively on the correct mobs, is definitely not a "dumber" experience than FFXIV Dungeons without such tools, lol.

The real problem with this idea is that FFXIV has gone out of its way to systematically remove the need for any kind of tactical thinking like this in content past ARR, so it would end up just being another button like Plunge And Friends that just gets spammed when it lights up to gain 100 potency because it has no other real use, or become a Role Action that sits collecting dust 99.9% of the time, like Repose.

The second problem is that FFXIV's client-server relationship was (probably) created by a volunteer middle school elective classroom, so just like Rescue, you'd probably have a high chance of Grappling a mob that was, in fact, already standing next to you... or the mob starting to move, then just rubberbanding back to where it started... or the mob getting stuck on some bizarre piece of terrain pathing, and not moving at all... or giving you an error message, or just fizzling, because the server decides "Please understand, we just don't have the resources to calculate this"... and so on.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

In the heyday of MMOs actually making threatening Dungeon-style content, these sorts of tools were commonplace (WOW Death Grip, SWTOR literally "Grappling Hook", etc, etc, etc... not sure if the even earlier-gens like EQ and FFXI did anything similar).

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I don't remember anything like that in EQ but tanks didn't pull there. Usually monks would pull because they could grab everything, get back to the group, then feign death at the tank's feet to drop all their aggro. Rangers would pull too, since they could snare the mobs to slow them. The tank picked a mob and the party attacked that while enchanters like myself used our crowd control abilities to keep the other mobs at bay until we were ready for them. And charm one of them into helping us fight his buddies.

I played actively about 10 years from launch so if they did add something later it was probably after my time.

So in laymen terms... give all tanks Death Grip?

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

The second problem is that FFXIV's client-server relationship was (probably) created by a volunteer middle school elective classroom, so just like Rescue, you'd probably have a high chance of Grappling a mob that was, in fact, already standing next to you... or the mob starting to move, then just rubberbanding back to where it started... or the mob getting stuck on some bizarre piece of terrain pathing, and not moving at all... or giving you an error message, or just fizzling, because the server decides "Please understand, we just don't have the resources to calculate this"... and so on.

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Honestly in 10+ years of toad tongues I never had the problem you are describing, nor the rescue problem.
On the other hand I agree with the first problem, ffxiv is pruning everything brain related, making every fight a Minesweeper.
Right now every mechanic can be solved with

1. move there / don't move there
2. stack with other (x4,x8)

No interaction with the environment, for example, thus an ability who help a positioning is useless 99% of the time.

IMHO, abilities with an utility ("intervene") should deal ZERO damage, exactly like the monk version, and I still don't understand why I have to use that in a rotation (I know, "for dps purpose" but it's conceptually wrong, they could reduce espiacion cooldown for example).

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

Honestly in 10+ years of toad tongues I never had the problem you are describing, nor the rescue problem.
On the other hand I agree with the first problem, ffxiv is pruning everything brain related, making every fight a Minesweeper.
Right now every mechanic can be solved with

1. move there / don't move there
2. stack with other (x4,x8)

No interaction with the environment, for example, thus an ability who help a positioning is useless 99% of the time.

IMHO, abilities with an utility ("intervene") should deal ZERO damage, exactly like the monk version, and I still don't understand why I have to use that in a rotation (I know, "for dps purpose" but it's conceptually wrong, they could reduce espiacion cooldown for example).

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Pardon my ignorance, but TBH what else is there to do?

The community got bored with traditional raids and wanted boss platforms with no strongholds to traverse and routes to take and trash mobs to kill.

I cant see traditional raid style mechs/features being viable in platform/arena only type raid content other than the dodge this stack on that , play twister style gameplay.

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

So in laymenwow player terms... give all tanks Death Grip?

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Effectively yes.

And personally I wouldn't mind it. Positioning with ranged mobs is always a pain, specially if there are multiple of them.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

Pardon my ignorance, but TBH what else is there to do?

The community got bored with traditional raids and wanted boss platforms with no strongholds to traverse and routes to take and trash mobs to kill.

I cant see traditional raid style mechs/features being viable in platform/arena only type raid content other than the dodge this stack on that , play twister style gameplay.

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Hmmm.

I don't think -anyone- asked for this.
my complaint stems from a degradation of the mechanics due to the implementation of duty support.
to avoid problems with artificial stupidity (A.S.) they removed all mechanics that could generate freedom and randomness.

This started hmmm I'd say after memoria misera EX, because I had to move Vaulthry and Titania EX. From time to time I could move Varis to avoid aoe.

After that they pruned a lot of mechanics in dungeons and trials, for example the use of "cannons" against the dragons in stone vigil, or the complete overhaul of steps of faith,

Now, this is not supposed to interfere with EX and Savage, right? We don't have a "Savage duty support". Still, if you watch how are the fight right now, it is clear they want to implement the feature in "the future".
As a Tank in endwalker I cannot move any boss, because
1. they are walls
2. they have fixed positions

and there is not a "special role" (use an item, move away a bomb, transform in something else) anymore.
I'm not saying "BEFORE there were a lot of amazing mechanics" but right now the role of the tank is only to take a tank burst, if there weren't tank burst you could go with 2 more dps and kill faster (because the emnity matters only for who take the hit).

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Effectively yes.

And personally I wouldn't mind it. Positioning with ranged mobs is always a pain, specially if there are multiple of them.

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I was referring to DnD's Death Grip but sure, WoW invented everything apparently.

Positioning with ranged mobs is only an issue mostly in ARR and maybe 1 or 2 HW dungeons?

They stopped making ranged enemies a long time ago, they usually end up closing in on you in later dungeons especially the 1st boss in Troia get close to you after casting their Void Fire, kinda makes the skill almost obsolete unless they decide to bring back ranged enemies again and chances are close to never.