Something doesn't make sense about the recent un-genderlocking.

So in recent patches, several genderlocked items have been unlocked, which is a good thing, so yay. But the devs also stated, during the 6.3 patch notes reading, that costume sets, from NPCs will remain locked. Now while a bit disappointing to some, this is "acceptable" considering the costume is meant to represent a specific character. But then if you look at a certain set or sets, this logic doesn't make sense.

I would like to point out that the brand new Alphinaud outfit he received in HW isn't genderlocked.
https://onlinestore-img.finalfantasy...ub1_detail.jpg
This directly contradicts what was said. There is an argument to be made for Alphinaud's original outfit being unlocked, since him and Alisaie wear the same thing, but this just highlights another issue.

As the story progresses, a lot of the Scions are getting new outfits, which is fine, but who can use those outfits is an issue. In Shadowbringers, Y'shtola, Thancred, and Urianger all got new outfits, but only Y'shtola's was unique. Thancred and Urianger's outfits are the job gear, so they are available to everyone. Similarly, in Endwalker, Alphinaud and Alisaie got new outfits, but again Alisaie's is unique and Alphinaud's is job gear. This means everyone has access to Thancred's, Urianger's, and Alphinaud's new gear, but only people who play female characters can wear Y'shtola's and Alisaie's; and they'd have to buy it with real money.

Now, G'raha has a new outfit as well, two of them technically, so his might be added to the mogstation soon. But this doesn't distract from the issue of catering to people who play female characters.

My "suggestion" since this appears to only be an issue with Alphinaud's outfits, so far, is to make any outfit worn by the twins not genderlocked. So hopefully that means one day guys can prance around in Alisaie's RDM attire.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I personally don't gravitate towards the NPC costumes, but I know a lot of people do. And it's a shame not everyone can enjoy the outfit of their favorite NPC, regardless of in-game gender.

Semi-update: I remembered that technically there is a female version of the above mentioned job gear "issue". Yugiri's new outfit is also job gear, so it is available for both genders. This doesn't negate the oddities in some of the outfit decisions, but not mentioning her outfit wouldn't be fair.

tbf, the twins' costumes are on Elezen kid bodies, which are pretty formless and don't have defining obvious gender bits so they're easier to mold to fit a body with no booba, and a body with booba. You could swap the hairstyles on Alphinaud and give the head the lip tint and bam, you'd just have Alisaie in his costume, which is probably their thinking (same with Alphi in Alisaie's SB costume; switch the hair on her model, take off the lip tint, and you have Alphinaud instead in her costume.)

Characters that have more defined bodies are probably more "iconic" in their thinking, like the cleavage window on Lyse's red dress, or the halter top and butt window Minfilia's Antecedent attire has. Aymeric's coat is genderlocked to dudes because that's the body type it was modeled for, but the hair is not (imagine spending $18 for hair... couldn't be me... lmao) but it's likely just that: these looks are more defined by who is wearing them, and they don't want to take that away, much like a black mage can't wear white mage AF. Probably those same reasons.

It's probably not going to be addressed, but what you're seeing is female outfits will stay gender locked but female characters are going to be allowed to wear the male outfits too.

I mentioned this when we had threads about removing gender locks. It seemed like 90% of the posts were just people with female characters asking to be able to wear everything without really anything to give back the other way. I honestly don't know a solution since most female gear looks terrible on male characters so it's not like we want that gear anyway.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's probably not going to be addressed, but what you're seeing is female outfits will stay gender locked but female characters are going to be allowed to wear the male outfits too.

I mentioned this when we had threads about removing gender locks. It seemed like 90% of the posts were just people with female characters asking to be able to wear everything without really anything to give back the other way. I honestly don't know a solution since most female gear looks terrible on male characters so it's not like we want that gear anyway.

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There were lots of requests for female gear to be unlocked, and most of that (outside NPC outfits) have been unlocked. Also to note, no NPC outfits have been unlocked for either gender. Alphi and Ali's outfit was identical, hence no lock, and theres no reason to add two genderlocked sets of literally the same gear. People would have also complained about that saying SE is double dipping on the same outfit lol....

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I honestly don't know a solution since most female gear looks terrible on male characters so it's not like we want that gear anyway.

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I personally would love to try on Alisaie's new outfit. But I'm not sure how it would look on a lala body.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

There were lots of requests for female gear to be unlocked, and most of that (outside NPC outfits) have been unlocked. Also to note, no NPC outfits have been unlocked for either gender. Alphi and Ali's outfit was identical, hence no lock, and theres no reason to add two genderlocked sets of literally the same gear. People would have also complained about that saying SE is double dipping on the same outfit lol....

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That's just their initial outfit, since HW they've worn different outfits. But there is still it "issue" that all of Alphinaud's outfits are unlocked, but Alisaie's are still female only. Granted an issue really only comes about if/when her outfits get added to the mogstation. But it is a possibility. That's why I figured unlocking just their outfits would be best. Although full unlocks would be nice too, but I'll take the win where it makes sense.

There hasn't been any kind of contradiction, though? Alphinaud's Heavensward attire was unisex upon its release. Same goes for Alphinaud/Alisae's pre-Heavensward sets which are identical anyway. The same can't be said of Lyse's, Minfilia's, Thancred's, Hien's, etc. They were released for one gender and they're still for only that one gender. Heck, even Aymeric's outfit can't be worn by female characters but provides a hairstyle that can be, as utterly bizarre as that is.

If their stance right now is that they don't plan to change the existing gender exclusivity of NPC outfits then they have yet to negate that statement. As of yet I don't see them changing the gender locks on the available male only outfits either, so it simply isn't true that they're only removing restrictions on masculine outfits. Perhaps that will be the case going forward, but we haven't received a male NPC costume (that wasn't Alphinaud) since... maybe Hien or Gosetsu, and both of those are male only. If OmegaM counts then that too is male only.

Whether the reason behind this decision is maintaining NPC cosplay accuracy (the reason the items can't be dyed and mostly come in one piece) or if it has something to do with it being too difficult to warp the outfits for larger/different body types the end result is the same. I'm personally super thankful that they've gone through the trouble of removing restrictions on all the items they have, and if anybody has glanced at recent datamines the next event sets also won't be gender locked. All in all it's great progress. If the devs say "no" about NPC outfits outside of the exceptions they make themselves (Alphinaud) then that's just how it's going to be unless they one day change their minds.

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Originally Posted by rainichan

or the halter top and butt window Minfilia's Antecedent attire has.

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You have my attention...

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Originally Posted by Caro178

There hasn't been any kind of contradiction, though? Alphinaud's Heavensward attire was unisex upon its release. Same goes for Alphinaud/Alisae's pre-Heavensward sets which are identical anyway.

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How was his HW outfit unisex? He's the only one who wears it. The initial ARR outfit makes sense since both twins wear it. But the HW outfit is only his.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

How was his HW outfit unisex? He's the only one who wears it. The initial ARR outfit makes sense since both twins wear it. But the HW outfit is only his.

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it's already been explained repeatedly in this very post... the twins have the same body... and head. Their gear is a non-issue

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Originally Posted by Eloah

How was his HW outfit unisex? He's the only one who wears it. The initial ARR outfit makes sense since both twins wear it. But the HW outfit is only his.

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Unisex as in the outfit itself sold on the cash shop fits both genders. Also, the twins have virtually the same body. I'm not saying any other character wears it, just that Alphinaud and Alisae have very simple, easily adjusted body shapes that are almost identical to begin with. The answer here is probably as easy as: the twins' unique Elezen teen body is easier to work with than something like Lyse's custom red dress (which already looks a bit funky and stretched if your character has larger breasts than it was intended to accommodate.) Even with a lot of tweaking it's probably close to impossible to make it look passable on a Hrothgar or male Roe, for example.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUWLHV5U...png&name=small

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Originally Posted by Renalt

You have my attention...

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Renalt would absolutely rock it, just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

it's already been explained repeatedly in this very post... the twins have the same body... and head. Their gear is a non-issue

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That wasn't the point of this topic. It's still Alphinaud's outfit. We don't know how things will proceed because we don't have either of Alisaie's outfits yet, so only time will tell.

Additionally, this would mean Zero's outfit should be unisex as well given the model she uses.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Unisex as in the outfit itself sold on the cash shop fits both genders. Also, the twins have virtually the same body. I'm not saying any other character wears it, just that Alphinaud and Alisae have very simple, easily adjusted body shapes that are almost identical to begin with. The answer here is probably as easy as: the twins' unique Elezen teen body is easier to work with than something like Lyse's custom red dress (which already looks a bit funky and stretched if your character has larger breasts than it was intended to accommodate.) Even with a lot of tweaking it's probably close to impossible to make it look passable on a Hrothgar or male Roe, for example.

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That's the very issue That's being brought into question. Why are the male outfit unisex, but not any female ones. As mentioned prior with the job gear for Thancred, Urianger, and Alphinaud. Why couldn't Y'shtola or Alisaie's new outfit been job gear as well.

Alphinaud's HW attire is the only unique outfit that is available for both genders, so it feels odd. However, we won't know for certain how this plays out exactly until one of Alisaie's outfits possibly becomes available. That's why I made that suggestion. If her outfits are unisex as well then is "okay", since as people stated they share a model. But if her outfit is genderlocked, then that just adds to the issue.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

That wasn't the point of this topic. It's still Alphinaud's outfit. We don't know how things will proceed because we don't have either of Alisaie's outfits yet, so only time will tell.

Additionally, this would mean Zero's outfit should be unisex as well given the model she uses.


That's the very issue That's being brought into question. Why are the male outfit unisex, but not any female ones. As mentioned prior with the job gear for Thancred, Urianger, and Alphinaud. Why couldn't Y'shtola or Alisaie's new outfit been job gear as well.

Alphinaud's HW attire is the only unique outfit that is available for both genders, so it feels odd. However, we won't know for certain how this plays out exactly until one of Alisaie's outfits possibly becomes available. That's why I made that suggestion. If her outfits are unisex as well then is "okay", since as people stated they share a model. But if her outfit is genderlocked, then that just adds to the issue.

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Which is why I already said Alphinaud's Heavensward outfit is the singular exception, NOT the rule. I could give you a list of male NPC outfits that are just as genderlocked as Y'shtola's and Lyse's, but you seem to be ignoring this fact for some reason. They don't make male outfits work for females - they made ONE male outfit work for females because it was made for a simple model that doesn't provide the complications of some of the other outfits.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Which is why I already said Alphinaud's Heavensward outfit is the singular exception, NOT the rule. I could give you a list of male NPC outfits that are just as genderlocked as Y'shtola's and Lyse's, but you seem to be ignoring this fact for some reason. They don't make male outfits work for females - they made ONE male outfit work for females because it was made for a simple model that doesn't provide the complications of some of the other outfits.

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I think you missed my point.

I have to agree that while Graha does have a male-only unique outfit, which those are typically only reserved for female scions, the mogstation version is 100% going to be gender unlocked or there will be plenty of people who play female characters on here asking to get it too. This cosplay integrity stuff only seems to apply to certain things when they want it to.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I have to agree that while Graha does have a male-only unique outfit, which those are typically only reserved for female scions, the mogstation version is 100% going to be gender unlocked or there will be plenty of people who play female characters on here asking to get it too. This cosplay integrity stuff only seems to apply to certain things when they want it to.

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They have never unlocked a male only NPC version. See Aymeric. Unique gear set, unable to be worn by female characters, but haircut is unisex. So someone playing a female character would have to store useless gear to them if they wanted the hairstyle.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They have never unlocked a male only NPC version. See Aymeric. Unique gear set, unable to be worn by female characters, but haircut is unisex. So someone playing a female character would have to store useless gear to them if they wanted the hairstyle.

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Isn't it odd though that the Aymeric hair isn't locked, but it comes with the purchase of an item that is. Sometimes these decisions are really baffling.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They have never unlocked a male only NPC version. See Aymeric. Unique gear set, unable to be worn by female characters, but haircut is unisex. So someone playing a female character would have to store useless gear to them if they wanted the hairstyle.

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They have, the alphinaud outfit is unlocked.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They have, the alphinaud outfit is unlocked.

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But was not previously locked and acquirable at the same time. They have never unlocked one after it went on the store.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

They have, the alphinaud outfit is unlocked.

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That's the thing though - it was never locked in the firstplace, so it was never unlocked. A very key distinction here. Square has never unlocked any NPC outfit that was previous locked at all. Any that work for both genders were released that way at the start.

That being said, as others have said, Alphinaud's outfit was easy to release on both sexes because of the fact that in the game-data pre-SHB, Alphinaud & Alisae in ARR & HW shared a unique body type, due to the fact they are young Elezens. This body is basically a scaled down male Hyur body, making it extremely easy to port over to female bodies due to the fact they just had to scale it back up using female Hyur proportions. It's made even easier by the fact the outfit's bulkiness hides any gender characteristics. Literally a 5min job in any 3D modeling software.

Contrast an outfit like Lyse's, which not only would require a complete re-shape of the chest area, but would also require multiple edits to several aspects of the outfit itself in order for it to fit the slimmer male body types, then require a 2nd round of editing in order for it to even work for Hroth/Roe due to their unique body type. That's also part of the reason you see so many male -> female unlocks on general gear but not vice versa. Every female race in the game shares a single body type that just has different scaling values apply to it. Meanwhile on the male side, Miqo'te, Hyur, Elezen and sometimes Au Ra share the same body type, but Hroth, Roe & the other sometimes Au Ra have unique body types that require custom editing to models to fit. Thus a male outfit only requires a single round of 3D edits in order to fit all female races, but a female outfit might sometimes require 3 rounds of edits to fit all males.

Also a key point - ever since SHB, Alisae & Alphinaud de-coupled their body type from each other in the data, meaning Alisae's newer outfits would fall under the same issues that something like Lyse's does - it wouldn't be a simple scalar job, it would require actual editing to the model itself.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

That's the thing though - it was never locked in the firstplace, so it was never unlocked. A very key distinction here. Square has never unlocked any NPC outfit that was previous locked at all. Any that work for both genders were released that way at the start.

That being said, as others have said, Alphinaud's outfit was easy to release on both sexes because of the fact that in the game-data pre-SHB, Alphinaud & Alisae in ARR & HW shared a unique body type, due to the fact they are young Elezens. This body is basically a scaled down male Hyur body, making it extremely easy to port over to female bodies due to the fact they just had to scale it back up using female Hyur proportions. It's made even easier by the fact the outfit's bulkiness hides any gender characteristics. Literally a 5min job in any 3D modeling software.

Contrast an outfit like Lyse's, which not only would require a complete re-shape of the chest area, but would also require multiple edits to several aspects of the outfit itself in order for it to fit the slimmer male body types, then require a 2nd round of editing in order for it to even work for Hroth/Roe due to their unique body type. That's also part of the reason you see so many male -> female unlocks on general gear but not vice versa. Every female race in the game shares a single body type that just has different scaling values apply to it. Meanwhile on the male side, Miqo'te, Hyur, Elezen and sometimes Au Ra share the same body type, but Hroth, Roe & the other sometimes Au Ra have unique body types that require custom editing to models to fit. Thus a male outfit only requires a single round of 3D edits in order to fit all female races, but a female outfit might sometimes require 3 rounds of edits to fit all males.

Also a key point - ever since SHB, Alisae & Alphinaud de-coupled their body type from each other in the data, meaning Alisae's newer outfits would fall under the same issues that something like Lyse's does - it wouldn't be a simple scalar job, it would require actual editing to the model itself.

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That's very convenient and all, it just doesn't change the fact that the un-gendering of items seems to universally only benefit female characters over male characters. Don't get confused, I don't want the female gear, it looks bad on my character. I just want them to keep it equal and not just shovel everything over to female miqo/aura/hyur/lala because they already have enough. If you're going to have female only gear, make male only gear and leave it locked. It definitely looks a lot like favoritism, and that's leaving out my biases from seeing other races get basic things I can't as viera.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's very convenient and all, it just doesn't change the fact that the un-gendering of items seems to universally only benefit female characters over male characters.

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Sadly thats been an issue in the game since 2.x when female characters got to double dip with gendered and unisex sets both being available to them.

funfact:
Cid and aymeric's cash shop outfits have female equivalents in the game files (and have had them for years!). Both were released as male exclusive but their hairstyles were unisex. If I had to guess why, both were likely planned to be unisex sets but the pushback on the forums/at Q&As about the cashshop being so female leaning that they locked them to inflate the male only tab :^)

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Sadly thats been an issue in the game since 2.x when female characters got to double dip with gendered and unisex sets both being available to them.

funfact:
Cid and aymeric's cash shop outfits have female equivalents in the game files (and have had them for years!). Both were released as male exclusive but their hairstyles were unisex. If I had to guess why, both were likely planned to be unisex sets but the pushback on the forums/at Q&As about the cashshop being so female leaning that they locked them to inflate the male only tab :^)

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That's a big problem looking through the cash shop, why would anyone want big flowing dresses on their male character. Why would anyone want that to be unlocked? Pretty much the only outcry I see is people wanting pants and suits on their female characters. Realistically out of the batch taht was just unlocked, there really aren't any that are even good for male characters.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's a big problem looking through the cash shop, why would anyone want big flowing dresses on their male character. Why would anyone want that to be unlocked? Pretty much the only outcry I see is people wanting pants and suits on their female characters. Realistically out of the batch taht was just unlocked, there really aren't any that are even good for male characters.

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The flowy dresses are meh but I think the value is generally the smaller bits + legpieces. On crystal I've seen the tights from the 2 unlocked valentines sets as well as the corset from that octoberfest looking set getting some mileage.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's a big problem looking through the cash shop, why would anyone want big flowing dresses on their male character. Why would anyone want that to be unlocked? Pretty much the only outcry I see is people wanting pants and suits on their female characters. Realistically out of the batch taht was just unlocked, there really aren't any that are even good for male characters.

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I have a few friends who like to dress their male characters quite "feminine", and they've been having a field day with the recent removal of restrictions. Of course, female styles tend to have a lot more variety in terms of cut and fit, and I can understand those styles not being immensely popular beyond the niche that really cares about having them, but I think they should still be available for them as long the edits are within reason. There are definitely players who will dress their male characters in "female" Mogstation clothing, heels, skirts, etc.

I wonder what Renalt would look like in a corset. Think it would make my pecs look good?

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Originally Posted by Rokke

funfact:
Cid and aymeric's cash shop outfits have female equivalents in the game files (and have had them for years!). Both were released as male exclusive but their hairstyles were unisex. If I had to guess why, both were likely planned to be unisex sets but the pushback on the forums/at Q&As about the cashshop being so female leaning that they locked them to inflate the male only tab :^)

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That's interesting about the Cid and Aymeric outfits, and sorta explains the oddity that is Aymeric's hair. Is it just their outfits for females or is the outfit unique in any way?

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Originally Posted by Eloah

That's interesting about the Cid and Aymeric outfits, and sorta explains the oddity that is Aymeric's hair. Is it just their outfits for females or is the outfit unique in any way?

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No extra bells or whistles, just the pieces fitted for female character bodies

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

That's the thing though - it was never locked in the firstplace, so it was never unlocked. A very key distinction here. Square has never unlocked any NPC outfit that was previous locked at all. Any that work for both genders were released that way at the start.

That being said, as others have said, Alphinaud's outfit was easy to release on both sexes because of the fact that in the game-data pre-SHB, Alphinaud & Alisae in ARR & HW shared a unique body type, due to the fact they are young Elezens. This body is basically a scaled down male Hyur body, making it extremely easy to port over to female bodies due to the fact they just had to scale it back up using female Hyur proportions. It's made even easier by the fact the outfit's bulkiness hides any gender characteristics. Literally a 5min job in any 3D modeling software.

Contrast an outfit like Lyse's, which not only would require a complete re-shape of the chest area, but would also require multiple edits to several aspects of the outfit itself in order for it to fit the slimmer male body types, then require a 2nd round of editing in order for it to even work for Hroth/Roe due to their unique body type. That's also part of the reason you see so many male -> female unlocks on general gear but not vice versa. Every female race in the game shares a single body type that just has different scaling values apply to it. Meanwhile on the male side, Miqo'te, Hyur, Elezen and sometimes Au Ra share the same body type, but Hroth, Roe & the other sometimes Au Ra have unique body types that require custom editing to models to fit. Thus a male outfit only requires a single round of 3D edits in order to fit all female races, but a female outfit might sometimes require 3 rounds of edits to fit all males.

Also a key point - ever since SHB, Alisae & Alphinaud de-coupled their body type from each other in the data, meaning Alisae's newer outfits would fall under the same issues that something like Lyse's does - it wouldn't be a simple scalar job, it would require actual editing to the model itself.

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I think there's just a simple misunderstanding involving language (the term "unlocked") at play here. Some are interpreting "unlocked" as an adjective describing an item that has no gender lock, period, others are interpreting "unlocked" as a verb describing the process of an item's gender lock being removed retroactively via a patch after its release. Case in point, it's completely true that Alphinaud's Heavensward attire was never unlocked because it was never locked to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

No extra bells or whistles, just the pieces fitted for female character bodies

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This makes me wonder if the outfit was updated for female Viera. Obviously it would be updated for Hrothgar and male Viera, but updating it for female Viera would indicate intention down the line.

And regardless of the semantic argument over "unlocked", there is only ONE character outfit that has been released for player-characters of the other gender, which is Alphinaud's HW outfit. It's not "all of Alphinaud's outfits" being made unisex (the twin outfit is Alisaie's version on female characters) and it's not a pattern of male outfits being unlocked and female outfits not. It's just one oddity that for all we know might have been a mistake in players' favour.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And regardless of the semantic argument over "unlocked", there is only ONE character outfit that has been released for player-characters of the other gender, which is Alphinaud's HW outfit. It's not "all of Alphinaud's outfits" being made unisex (the twin outfit is Alisaie's version on female characters) and it's not a pattern of male outfits being unlocked and female outfits not. It's just one oddity that for all we know might have been a mistake in players' favour.

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And the reason is because like was noted in the OP, they shifted to using AF gear and common unisex gear for male scions and characters in shdowbringers, with the exception of Graha. Whereas, they give female scions and characters unique gear.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

This makes me wonder if the outfit was updated for female Viera. Obviously it would be updated for Hrothgar and male Viera, but updating it for female Viera would indicate intention down the line.

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Viera use the female midlander body so there is no real "updating" needed, the game just scales it to fit their skeleton.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Viera use the female midlander body so there is no real "updating" needed, the game just scales it to fit their skeleton.

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I could be wrong but I think all females use the same base model which actually isn't super far off from male midlander already making female gear only take about a third of the effort as male which may explain why female only gear tends to be a bit more intricate. A fair tradeoff for not having three different body models
personally I would rather they spend their time making headgear work on viera and hrothgar, that seems like far more of an injustice to me