Kaiten

Hi can the devs bring back kaiten please.

Can we at least wait until 6.2/ live letter part 2?..

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Can we at least wait until 6.2/ live letter part 2?..

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Samurai players have been waiting for almost four months, being asked to provide feedback while never having a single bit of it even acknowledged since; they’re tired of waiting.

People also shouldn’t have to wait over four entire months for those reversions either; why does it have to take that long for Kaiten to be added back if mechanical action changes to PvP actions can be released within weeks of their release in response to player feedback? Unless the plan was never to add Kaiten back regardless of how much feedback is received, in which case I’d prefer more direct honesty.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Can we at least wait until 6.2/ live letter part 2?..

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There was no mention of Kaiten during the first liveletter.
I think at least answering something would've been the minimum.

For months they kept asking, it's literally the most vocal feedback and they're met with silence.

I'm fully convinced it's not coming back. If they can mention that DRG and AST is getting a rework delay they could have mentioned something like "future Samurai adjustments are coming in 6.2, please wait for LL part 2 for more details".

They aren't saying anything because this is the direction they are taking for better or worse. I've already made peace with it and am moving on from XIV since it's clear they have no intention of listening to any feedback at this point and I'll be damned if I'm gonna wait another 2 years before things "may get better" in the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

Samurai players have been waiting for almost four months, being asked to provide feedback while never having a single bit of it even acknowledged since; they’re tired of waiting.

People also shouldn’t have to wait over four entire months for those reversions either; why does it have to take that long for Kaiten to be added back if mechanical action changes to PvP actions can be released within weeks of their release in response to player feedback? Unless the plan was never to add Kaiten back regardless of how much feedback is received, in which case I’d prefer more direct honesty.

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I am a SAM player too and I don't like the Kaiten removal.
We already have a billion of these threads tho we don't need more to clutter the forum this should've just been another comment in one of the other threads not a thread in and of itself.
Yoshi-P also said that we should give it a chance but keep giving feedback which we have now what remains is wait until the next major patch where Job reworks etc normally happens.
Making another thread about it isn't going to do anything.

PvP is also different because players are on the receiving end, I think generally speaking most will agree that being on the receiving end in PvP feels worse and more urgent than a Job missing a button in PvE but still performing well.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

There was no mention of Kaiten during the first liveletter.
I think at least answering something would've been the minimum.

For months they kept asking, it's literally the most vocal feedback and they're met with silence.

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Because Job changes are covered in part 2 of Live Letters...
They only mentioned that AST and DRG are having their reworks delayed *BECAUSE OF THE NEGATIVE RESPONSE TO SAM*.

Edit: I know that this is the FFXIV forum, but I wish we could be a tad bit more organized and not clutter it with needless threads that like I said should just be a comment in another thread.
In reality it's counter-productive and makes it more difficult to collect feedback in a cohesive manner and there are also other Jobs that deserve to be heard too.
It's probably not fun if you play another Job and want to be heard but then the forum gets a billion SAM threads about the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Edit: I know that this is the FFXIV forum, but I wish we could be a tad bit more organized and not clutter it with needless threads that like I said should just be a comment in another thread.
In reality it's counter-productive and makes it more difficult to collect feedback in a cohesive manner and there are also other Jobs that deserve to be heard too.
It's probably not fun if you play another Job and want to be heard but then the forum gets a billion SAM threads about the same thing.

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Bumping pointless thread to agree that thread is pointless and should have been a comment in one of the other numerous ones that already exist.

Have a nice day everyone.

The more threads there are from different players sharing their own perspectives, the harder it is for developers to ignore that pressing feedback than if there was just a single thread that might be more easily dismissed or buried. All they have to do is simply acknowledge the threads and make a very simple statement with regards to whether Kaiten will ever be added back, but they haven’t done that; Samurai players should not have to wait four entire months to be acknowledged.

Meanwhile, Black Mage gets changed multiple times within a short amount of time, including functional changes, not just potency tweaks and the like. An entire blog post was made for Black Mage feedback in a timely manner, but Kaiten has had absolute silence since the Patch 6.1 notes; why the inconsistency?

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

The more threads there are from different players sharing their own perspectives, the harder it is for developers to ignore that pressing feedback than if there was just a single thread that might be more easily dismissed or buried. All they have to do is simply acknowledge the threads and make a very simple statement with regards to whether Kaiten will ever be added back, but they haven’t done that; Samurai players should not have to wait four entire months to be acknowledged.

Meanwhile, Black Mage gets changed multiple times within a short amount of time, including functional changes, not just potency tweaks and the like. An entire blog post was made for Black Mage feedback in a timely manner, but Kaiten has had absolute silence since the Patch 6.1 notes; why the inconsistency?

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Pvp is updated more frequently due to the player dilemma. And again, there's already a multitude of posts made that are already getting lost. But there's another thread that has a link to all of those already as well. At this point in time, we're already halfway to the next patch.

People actually want Kaiten back?



/s

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Because Job changes are covered in part 2 of Live Letters...

They only mentioned that AST and DRG are having their reworks delayed *BECAUSE OF THE NEGATIVE RESPONSE TO SAM*.

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What stops them from adressing Kaiten at all?
"We understand the Samurai playerbase frustration, we will adress the issue later", how hard is that?

I cannot find any official mention of the reason behind the postponning of DRG/AST rework.
Do you have any reliable sources?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

What stops them from adressing Kaiten at all?
"We understand the Samurai playerbase frustration, we will adress the issue later", how hard is that?

I cannot find any official mention of the reason behind the postponning of DRG/AST rework.
Do you have any reliable sources?

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They officially said that the reworks were more involved than they anticipated. Not that it had anything to do with SAM complaints....

>Linking to Meoni
Good job. /s

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Originally Posted by Karious

>Linking to Meoni
Good job. /s

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Meoni is just repeating what was said at that time in the unofficial translation of the Live Letter. Since I don't have access to the unofficial translation and I'm sure that a good number of us don't speak Japanese, I would figure that this was sufficient without me searching for a long time just to disprove some statement someone made up with no source.

+1 bring back kaiten, sam feels bad without it. Do you like shinten? Ayo dawg we put a shinten in your shinten so you can shinten while you shinten. Please look forward to it

Personally I am content with it being gone. Sam feels just fine without it.

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Originally Posted by Dementia2009

Personally I am content with it being gone. Sam feels just fine without it.

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That's great champ, I'm happy for you

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

That's great champ, I'm happy for you

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Thanks slugger.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

They officially said that the reworks were more involved than they anticipated. Not that it had anything to do with SAM complaints....

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This is the translation synopsis I saw
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...52/unknown.png
I don't speak japanese in the slightest so have no idea whose is more accurate.

Which part do you prefer? The part where you dont need to use your brain or the part where you spam ogcds like a tank?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I am a SAM player too and I don't like the Kaiten removal.
We already have a billion of these threads tho we don't need more to clutter the forum this should've just been another comment in one of the other threads not a thread in and of itself.
Yoshi-P also said that we should give it a chance but keep giving feedback which we have now what remains is wait until the next major patch where Job reworks etc normally happens.
Making another thread about it isn't going to do anything.

PvP is also different because players are on the receiving end, I think generally speaking most will agree that being on the receiving end in PvP feels worse and more urgent than a Job missing a button in PvE but still performing well.



Because Job changes are covered in part 2 of Live Letters...
They only mentioned that AST and DRG are having their reworks delayed *BECAUSE OF THE NEGATIVE RESPONSE TO SAM*.

Edit: I know that this is the FFXIV forum, but I wish we could be a tad bit more organized and not clutter it with needless threads that like I said should just be a comment in another thread.
In reality it's counter-productive and makes it more difficult to collect feedback in a cohesive manner and there are also other Jobs that deserve to be heard too.
It's probably not fun if you play another Job and want to be heard but then the forum gets a billion SAM threads about the same thing.

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Hi to answer you i think it's better to make a lot of threads because it will be easier to prove them that a majority of the community disagree this changes, we are showing them that they need to listen to the players and giving us silent is definetely not an answer. So i'll continue to comment or post threads( but not too much i understand there might be other problems) about the sam. I hope SE will listen to us, it's never too late and it's okay to make mistakes.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

This is the translation synopsis I saw
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...52/unknown.png
I don't speak japanese in the slightest so have no idea whose is more accurate.

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Interesting, that's a good find. All 3 of the people who I was watching stream the Live Letter said "they were postponed because they were basically not finished because it was extensive."

This definitely seems to hint at the delay being because of poor feedback, though I'm wondering how much of that is wishful thinking.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

People actually want Kaiten back?



/s

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uh yes, me because I liked being able to boost my burst through Good Resource Management instead of spamming Filler Abilities like braindead and having to sit on 20 Kenki.. which is a Problem I never had since 2017
they could've at least tune down the Kenki Cost of Shinten and Kyuten.. which may worsen the Spam but at least I don't have sit on 20 Kenki like it is now.. I feel so teased! Like: "Oh Look! 20 Kenki! Remember what you could do with those before 6.1!? But guess what! Not anymore! Now do a Hakaze and spam Shinten like a Monkey you Bongo!"

Personally I don't care for civility other then following some guidelines ( apparently ) like not addressing trolls. Waiting with patience we do not have for 4 months, with the reason of staying respectful when SE clearly doesn't respect the player-base at all sounds quite asinine. You look at healers and they will say " Look at what being polite and waiting patiently got them ", and we're being told to politely wait? I just read as " just shut up ", which with all do respect I have a choice to not do so, and I will choose to not.

They'll get the feedback they supposedly yearningly asked for (ha!), worded as civil as possible.
Rather they willfully ignore that feedback is up to them. Voiced it we have, voicing it we will.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

They'll get the feedback they supposedly yearningly asked for (ha!), worded as civil as possible.
Rather they willfully ignore that feedback is up to them. Voiced it we have, voicing it we will.

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well.. we may need to have a more direct approach, talk with Japanese Player who are willing to translate our plea, maybe we have to design a billboard, again it grabbed everyone's attention, we gave enough input on ourside, but slowly I have the Feeling that it's mid 2000s to 2010 Square all over again.. and do you know what they released in that Time? FFXIII and FFXIV1.0, let us never forget that.

The easiest of changes would be just to bring back Kaiten as it was before, but instead of making your next Iaijutsu 50% stronger, just make it guarantee a critical hit instead, while buffing shinten a little bit to balance the kenki cost of Kaiten.

As for button bloat, Ikishouten could turn into Ogi Namikiri which now turns into Kaeshi Namikiri anyway.
Shoha I is replaced by Shoha 2 with a buffed up potency. I don't think anyone would mind not having a single target Shoha, but instead just one Shoha for both 1 target and for AoE.

If the button bloat is real, which I don't think it is, you can even combine Guren and Senei into one, by asking the community which animation is better in a google forms or something. Or just pick one and buff it up for single target while adjusting its AoE fall off.

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

The easiest of changes would be just to bring back Kaiten as it was before, but instead of making your next Iaijutsu 50% stronger, just make it guarantee a critical hit instead, while buffing shinten a little bit to balance the kenki cost of Kaiten.

As for button bloat, Ikishouten could turn into Ogi Namikiri which now turns into Kaeshi Namikiri anyway.
Shoha I is replaced by Shoha 2 with a buffed up potency. I don't think anyone would mind not having a single target Shoha, but instead just one Shoha for both 1 target and for AoE.

If the button bloat is real, which I don't think it is, you can even combine Guren and Senei into one, by asking the community which animation is better in a google forms or something. Or just pick one and buff it up for single target while adjusting its AoE fall off.

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*sigh* if you combine Shoha 1 with Shoha 2 and combine Senei with Guren you gonna lose control on what do you wanna do! Shoha 1 and Senei are for Single Target, Shoha 2 and Guren are for AoE simple as that, Kaiten also made all Weapon Skills hit 50% harder, not just Iaijutsu^^ my Idea for a Change on Kaiten was that they can keep the auto-crits on Midare and Ogi, but that Kaiten makes the next Weapon-skill do Direct Hit, thus rewarding Kenki Management with a Guaranteed Direct Crit.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

well.. we may need to have a more direct approach, talk with Japanese Player who are willing to translate our plea, maybe we have to design a billboard, again it grabbed everyone's attention, we gave enough input on ourside, but slowly I have the Feeling that it's mid 2000s to 2010 Square all over again.. and do you know what they released in that Time? FFXIII and FFXIV1.0, let us never forget that.

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The Japanese player base did verbal murder on them after they didn’t address samurai at the early stages of pandemonium savage. I don’t wanna know how they reacted too this kind of treatment.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

*sigh* if you combine Shoha 1 with Shoha 2 and combine Senei with Guren you gonna lose control on what do you wanna do! Shoha 1 and Senei are for Single Target, Shoha 2 and Guren are for AoE simple as that, Kaiten also made all Weapon Skills hit 50% harder, not just Iaijutsu^^ my Idea for a Change on Kaiten was that they can keep the auto-crits on Midare and Ogi, but that Kaiten makes the next Weapon-skill do Direct Hit, thus rewarding Kenki Management with a Guaranteed Direct Crit.

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And follow WAR even more closely by making an entire stat line pointless for melding? I guess we should have all focused on Determination all along.

Senei and Guren can be cleaned up by overlapping the button with Shinten and Kyuten just as easily.

Shoha 1 and 2 don't need to exist at the same time unless meditation gets changed to be more interactive.

Ogi should have always been something that changes over Ikishoten since that's the specific trigger for it.

If not that, then maybe they could do some weird overlap onto the iaijutsu button in a similar vein to WARs Infuriate changing fell cleave and decimate, but I think the better change for that would be to apply that sort of interaction to shinten/kyuten

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

And follow WAR even more closely by making an entire stat line pointless for melding? I guess we should have all focused on Determination all along.

Senei and Guren can be cleaned up by overlapping the button with Shinten and Kyuten just as easily.

Shoha 1 and 2 don't need to exist at the same time unless meditation gets changed to be more interactive.

Ogi should have always been something that changes over Ikishoten since that's the specific trigger for it.

If not that, then maybe they could do some weird overlap onto the iaijutsu button in a similar vein to WARs Infuriate changing fell cleave and decimate, but I think the better change for that would be to apply that sort of interaction to shinten/kyuten

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There are definitely a ton of better things that they could have done and don't listen to Ryuu's ridiculous stance on needing separate AE/single target abilities that do the same thing. Here's what they should have done:



Have Shoha upgrade to Shoha II with a high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Shinten and Kyuten into 1 ability with high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Have Tsubame replace Iaijutsu after using Iaijutsu

Combine Guren and Senei into a single attack with high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Gyoten and Yaten into an ability similar to Icarus/Thunderclap that just takes you to a target

Have Ogi Namakiri replace Ikishoten


Easy 6-7 abilities cleared off the hotbars with NO change to how the job plays.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

*sigh* if you combine Shoha 1 with Shoha 2 and combine Senei with Guren you gonna lose control on what do you wanna do! Shoha 1 and Senei are for Single Target, Shoha 2 and Guren are for AoE

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SE's excuse was - Button Bloat. Let us not forget that ever. Thus, plenty players bargain suggest logical alternative Button Bloat Solutions over Kaiten Removal.

There aren't any mechanics in FFXIV that requires that much precise damage control targeting. There isn't a reflect in this game that's that detrimental. There's The Tower at Paradigm's bosses " Hansel & Gretel ", with a knocback but they need to be pulled apart anyways. There is no hitting the wrong target and get reflected... Instant Death, or Bleed/Slow/Silence/Sleep/Frost/Burn/EmotionalDamage.

Heck, SE already neglects control with Ogi Namikiri. There's no choice it is AoE rather you like it or not. And Tenka Goken is a fart circle we have less Aim with it then a Cone. It just doesn't matter until they introduce mechanics where it does.

And until they do? The solutions players suggested are valid.
Shoha I + II fused. 1st target hit with Shoha I potency, Cone fall off damage of Shoha II.
Senei+Guren fused. 1st target hit with Senei potency, Line fall off damage of Guren.
Next to Ikishoten turning into Ogi Namikiri, these fused skills solve their supposedly poor excuse of Button Bloat issue more logically? then their 6.1 Kaitenremoval.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

There are definitely a ton of better things that they could have done and don't listen to Ryuu's ridiculous stance on needing separate AE/single target abilities that do the same thing. Here's what they should have done:



Have Shoha upgrade to Shoha II with a high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Shinten and Kyuten into 1 ability with high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Have Tsubame replace Iaijutsu after using Iaijutsu

Combine Guren and Senei into a single attack with high potency plus AE fall-off damage

Combine Gyoten and Yaten into an ability similar to Icarus/Thunderclap that just takes you to a target

Have Ogi Namakiri replace Ikishoten


Easy 6-7 abilities cleared off the hotbars with NO change to how the job plays.

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I don't think we should remove our disengage button. I like to stylishly jump out and in from danger. But everything else is fine, though I think as filler abilities, shinten and kyuten can remain separate.

I still stand by my stance that higher potency abilities should upgrade situationally off of those two based on resource. It compromises several complaints and maintains all existing skills without removing or altering their performance in any way. That's at least a start, imo

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

SE's excuse was - Button Bloat. Let us not forget that ever. Thus, plenty players bargain suggest logical alternative Button Bloat Solutions over Kaiten Removal.

There aren't any mechanics in FFXIV that requires that much precise damage control targeting. There isn't a reflect in this game that's that detrimental. There's The Tower at Paradigm's bosses " Hansel & Gretel ", with a knocback but they need to be pulled apart anyways. There is no hitting the wrong target and get reflected... Instant Death, or Bleed/Slow/Silence/Sleep/Frost/Burn/EmotionalDamage.

Heck, SE already neglects control with Ogi Namikiri. There's no choice it is AoE rather you like it or not. And Tenka Goken is a fart circle we have less Aim with it then a Cone. It just doesn't matter until they introduce mechanics where it does.

And until they do? The solutions players suggested are valid.
Shoha I + II fused. 1st target hit with Shoha I potency, Cone fall off damage of Shoha II.
Senei+Guren fused. 1st target hit with Senei potency, Line fall off damage of Guren.
Next to Ikishoten turning into Ogi Namikiri, these fused skills solve their supposedly poor excuse of Button Bloat issue more logically? then their 6.1 Kaitenremoval.

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Those player solutions aren't valid, if we turn all those skills into AoE, the whole Resources turn into AoE Resources and step closer into meaninglessness, which is the Problem that Kenki has right Now, it isn't the Damage Boosting Resource it used to be. Kenki Now is just for Filler Attacks and sit on 20 Kenki for the lols. I already shared my Ikishoten into Ogi Macro, but fine if ya'all will bring up how Ikishoten should turn into Ogi Namikiri, let me share my Double Slice Buster Macro with you again:
/macroicon Ikishoten
/ac Ikishoten
/ac Ogi Namikiri
you have to press the button 3 times for everything, I wrote this stuff months ago (!!) and please do not cry about "but I do not want a Macro!!", where I have to say either the macro or cry about it for at least 2 years
+ didn't we already dismiss the Button Bloat Arguement aswell and rather prefer a roll back of Samurai to 6.08? but I digress.. a Better Idea to address the "Button Bloat" would be to turn Hakaze into Shoha 1 and Fuko into Shoha 2 (because Hakaze is Single Target and Shoha 1 is Single Target and Fuko is AoE and so is Mumyo Shoha) but in my player experience then we may step Closer to be a Dragoon with a Katana...

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

snip

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They are, because they solve the problem Square made as an excuse, the so called " Button Bloat " issue.

Let me be clear, I don't have a Button Bloat Issue nor do I think there is one for SAM. They could add 3 more skills I would still not have a Button Bloat issue and I don't even use an MMO mouse nor Macro's. There are SAM controller players who make fun of others who say there's a Button Bloat problem for SAM.

That being said, it's Square's statement, their Excuse = Button Bloat. So we give Button Bloat solutions. Square or any company is not going to state to us " just use Macro's ". You can do a self-made-bandage-solution if its a probelm, but it then by design is just bad to have players need to do that.

There's a reason why so many players/streamers/youtubers stated the following solutions

• Shoha I + II fused as 1 skill/button
• Ikishoten + Ogi Namikiri button fused
• Senei + Guren fused as 1 skill/button

Cause they make sense, it solves their imaginary excuse of a problem better then Kaiten removal.

As for resources, Kaiten buffed Midare and Higanbana making our resource not just AoE and not just meaningless. And heck these Valid solutions make room for skills that could make Meditation stacks and Kenki more interactive vs ripping Kaiten away and leaving us with a Shinten Gauge now! then I will take all of these valid solutions and Kaiten over some darn Kyuten/Shinten Gauge yes if we're talking meaningless.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

Those player solutions aren't valid, if we turn all those skills into AoE, the whole Resources turn into AoE Resources and step closer into meaninglessness, which is the Problem that Kenki has right Now, it isn't the Damage Boosting Resource it used to be. Kenki Now is just for Filler Attacks and sit on 20 Kenki for the lols. I already shared my Ikishoten into Ogi Macro, but fine if ya'all will bring up how Ikishoten should turn into Ogi Namikiri, let me share my Double Slice Buster Macro with you again:
/macroicon Ikishoten
/ac Ikishoten
/ac Ogi Namikiri
you have to press the button 3 times for everything, I wrote this stuff months ago (!!) and please do not cry about "but I do not want a Macro!!", where I have to say either the macro or cry about it for at least 2 years
+ didn't we already dismiss the Button Bloat Arguement aswell and rather prefer a roll back of Samurai to 6.08? but I digress.. a Better Idea to address the "Button Bloat" would be to turn Hakaze into Shoha 1 and Fuko into Shoha 2 (because Hakaze is Single Target and Shoha 1 is Single Target and Fuko is AoE and so is Mumyo Shoha) but in my player experience then we may step Closer to be a Dragoon with a Katana...

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I distinctly remember people pointing out why a macro was a bad idea for merging skills and actions together. Something about how a self-made macro doesn't queue like a normal skill and requires the gcd to have finished rolling before it can properly be used.

Sounds slow when the typical way of play is queueing skills before the gcd finishes rolling around. Not that I've played with macros before. I never bothered setting those up for my tank invulns or my healer rezzes.

Still, a player made solution means there's a problem in the design.

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

I distinctly remember people pointing out why a macro was a bad idea for merging skills and actions together. Something about how a self-made macro doesn't queue like a normal skill and requires the gcd to have finished rolling before it can properly be used.

Sounds slow when the typical way of play is queueing skills before the gcd finishes rolling around. Not that I've played with macros before. I never bothered setting those up for my tank invulns or my healer rezzes.

Still, a player made solution means there's a problem in the design.

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yeah but what do you wanna do? argue on the forums for the next 2 years or use the Player-made solution, which is not a 3rd Party Mod btw ^^

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

They are, because they solve the problem Square made as an excuse, the so called " Button Bloat " issue.

Let me be clear, I don't have a Button Bloat Issue nor do I think there is one for SAM. They could add 3 more skills I would still not have a Button Bloat issue and I don't even use an MMO mouse nor Macro's. There are SAM controller players who make fun of others who say there's a Button Bloat problem for SAM.

That being said, it's Square's statement, their Excuse = Button Bloat. So we give Button Bloat solutions. Square or any company is not going to state to us " just use Macro's ". You can do a self-made-bandage-solution if its a probelm, but it then by design is just bad to have players need to do that.

There's a reason why so many players/streamers/youtubers stated the following solutions

• Shoha I + II fused as 1 skill/button
• Ikishoten + Ogi Namikiri button fused
• Senei + Guren fused as 1 skill/button

Cause they make sense, it solves their imaginary excuse of a problem better then Kaiten removal.

As for resources, Kaiten buffed Midare and Higanbana making our resource not just AoE and not just meaningless. And heck these Valid solutions make room for skills that could make Meditation stacks and Kenki more interactive vs ripping Kaiten away and leaving us with a Shinten Gauge now! then I will take all of these valid solutions and Kaiten over some darn Kyuten/Shinten Gauge yes if we're talking meaningless.

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Am I seriously the only one who sees the Problem when merging those Skills together? It would religate the entire resource to a single situation! and that's not what Samurai do.. it is what Dragoons is all about
Shoha + Mumyo Shoha = Geirskogul
Senei + Guren = Nastrond
Samurai prepare for Battle, Dragoons jump in and wreak havoc.

I think the problem with merging them is less than the problem that results from killing the gauge management aspect of the job

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I think the problem with merging them is less than the problem that results from killing the gauge management aspect of the job

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both are not preferable! The Devs just made a Fatal Misjudgment and turned the Samurai into a Spam X for DPS.. but merging skills like those suggestions would just turn them into Dragoons with Katanas

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

yeah but what do you wanna do? argue on the forums for the next 2 years or use the Player-made solution, which is not a 3rd Party Mod btw ^^

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I'll keep calmly stating that the devs should have made iki and ogi the same button. As of 6.08, I have no issue with button bloat. While I may advocate for a cleaner setup in the hope that they consider alternatives to whatever excuse they may give us, it's all so we don't end up losing actions like we did with Seigan and Kaiten.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

Am I seriously the only one who sees the Problem when merging those Skills together? It would religate the entire resource to a single situation! and that's not what Samurai do.. it is what Dragoons is all about
Shoha + Mumyo Shoha = Geirskogul
Senei + Guren = Nastrond
Samurai prepare for Battle, Dragoons jump in and wreak havoc.

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To be fair, most of the SAM skills that folks have suggested merging are a lot more frequent in use than anything DRG has, aside from geirskogul.

I still think the transforming shinten and kyuten is the bare minimum they could do to cleaning up the bar while also improving meditation stacks to have a fuller kit than just being tacked on.