6.2 SAM; Optimism

Happy Friday! How goes?

To keep it short & simple,

SAM job is not “dead” as many deemed it to be all because of being streamlined which frankly the job still remains just effectively good unless you allow yourself for parse damage dictate otherwise.

Thank you Yoshida for remaining steady with your changes & I was one of the few that supported 6.1 SAM’s changes which I am far delighted & pleased.

I look forward to see what’s beyond 6.2 in the future & once again thank you for remaining truthful & absolute wirh your changes!

Cheers,

Okay troll.

You don't even play SAM, you just support the changes because you like seeing the rest of us upset. Don't you have anything better to do than passive-aggressively shitposting after the Live Letter just ended and you know we're all annoyed by the lack of response to feedback?

If you weren't so antagonistic I'd actually pity you.

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Happy Friday! How goes?

To keep it short & simple,

SAM job is not “dead” as many deemed it to be all because of being streamlined which frankly the job still remains just effectively good unless you allow yourself for parse damage dictate otherwise.

Thank you Yoshida for remaining steady with your changes & I was one of the few that supported 6.1 SAM’s changes which I am far delighted & pleased.

I look forward to see what’s beyond 6.2 in the future & once again thank you for remaining truthful & absolute wirh your changes!

Cheers,

---

You did notice the part where the the ast and drg reworks were postponed presumably due to the reaction to the samurai changes didn't you?

No one asked you to post here nor am I trolling.

While not surprised this is new, it’s honestly getting old…..why not just walk away & keep to your posts Celesticer instead of further spamming as though in attempts to flood this posts?

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Originally Posted by Vencio

No one asked you to post here nor am I trolling.

While not surprised this is new, it’s honestly getting old…..why not just walk away & keep to your posts Celesticer instead of further spamming as though in attempts to flood this posts?

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why are you complaining?

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Originally Posted by Vencio

No one asked you to post here nor am I trolling.

While not surprised this is new, it’s honestly getting old…..why not just walk away & keep to your posts Celesticer instead of further spamming as though in attempts to flood this posts?

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Read the room, homie

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

why are you complaining?

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Apparently by supporting the opposite changes that were already in effect has drawn hostility by those that are still reluctant & still yearn to revert ot back.

The job is already set on stone as it is & it is NOT dead.

What more can I say?

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Originally Posted by fulminating

You did notice the part where the the ast and drg reworks were postponed presumably due to the reaction to the samurai changes didn't you?

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Oh wow, so instead of being bitter and passive aggressive because those whiny vocal SAM players are "taking away" attention, maybe I should actually be supportive because someone finally being loud enough to force SE to rethink their baffling job design philosophy might just save my main from being butchered in the future?

Who'd thunk.

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Originally Posted by Vencio

No one asked you to post here nor am I trolling.

While not surprised this is new, it’s honestly getting old…..why not just walk away & keep to your posts Celesticer instead of further spamming as though in attempts to flood this posts?

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okay, then elaborate why you like the current Direction of Samurai,

Why do you think that taking away Mechanic & Resource Synergy is a Good Change?
True, Samurai does do more dps than before 6.1 But the Price was the Jobs Identity of preparing Heavy Hitters to hit big numbers to Spam Attacks more often without wasting thoughts to pesky resource management.
while true that Samurai is a DPS, my more general Question is: Is Job Identity worth less than just to serve the role the Job is categorized for?
I'm just curious, while I also thought about those Player, who may prefer 6.1 SAM (while not being one of them) I wonder if those Players shouldn't be satisfyed in someway still.
Currently there is no DoT Damage Dealer, which was previously Summoner, yet now the door could be opened for Necromancer as the new DoT Based Damage Dealer.
but please share your thoughts about your feelings about the 6.1 Samurai honestly and thoroughly, even if flawed it should be respected.

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Apparently by supporting the opposite changes that were already in effect has drawn hostility by those that are still reluctant & still yearn to revert ot back.

The job is already set on stone as it is & it is NOT dead.

What more can I say?

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You didn't answer my question. Why are you complaining?

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

You didn't answer my question. Why are you complaining?

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Being called Troll ongoing for one when truly I am not? There’s your answer.

RyuuZero this is for you,

Before 6.1 SAM was still at its greatest peak & its one DPS job I value with such reverance that sadly it was also targeted as the “selfish DPS” when in truth it far delivered great consistency & ungodly bursts & Kaiten was the bonus for that without disagreeing otherwise.

Though I will be frank I will never know why Kaiten was removed & though it took me a week to adjust its changes, I cannot deny that I do support the streamlined of abilities which (as I’ve previously mentioned) makes it far pragmatic, simpler & just buff up other areas. This very same point landed me with harsh criticisms & attacks particularly for those that deemed me to say “I don’t know how to play the job or Trolling” when in truth I do & at the same time a casual that just strolls about simpler content & couldn’t be bothered with savage etc., in which parse damage is a domain by which some players honored & reinforced. I don’t object to that while at the same time I dislike how it slowly seeks to make it a META (as an ex WoW I was always adamant & I am glad this game takes a different approach to that).

On short, I do miss Kaiten while I am also moving on & can sort of see the Dev’s perspective on it & the job still retains strong as it is.

It is not butchered nor left out on the dust.

Yes I do strongly support shortening abilities & a reason why I adore PvP’s simplicity so therefore I am able to have more spatial awareness & appreciate the fictional world in my eyes rather than have a flooded ability bars go over my screen & disperse my ideal of immersion.

Yes I play on Ps4 & no longer fond of PC.

I hope this was a sufficient answer to you RyuuZero

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Happy Friday! How goes?

To keep it short & simple,

SAM job is not “dead” as many deemed it to be all because of being streamlined which frankly the job still remains just effectively good unless you allow yourself for parse damage dictate otherwise.

Thank you Yoshida for remaining steady with your changes & I was one of the few that supported 6.1 SAM’s changes which I am far delighted & pleased.

I look forward to see what’s beyond 6.2 in the future & once again thank you for remaining truthful & absolute wirh your changes!

Cheers,

---

What optimism? The backlash from SAM was so severe they actually are delaying the SAM And AST changes they had planned. It's basically a firm admission they are well aware we are beyond pissed off and DRG/AST are also extremely popular jobs like SAM was.

The likelihood of SAM changes coming in 6.2 and us potentially getting kaiten back just doubled. Go back into your little cave you troll.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Oh wow, so instead of being bitter and passive aggressive because those whiny vocal SAM players are "taking away" attention, maybe I should actually be supportive because someone finally being loud enough to force SE to rethink their baffling job design philosophy might just save my main from being butchered in the future?

Who'd thunk.

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This. DRG is my second favorite job and was my old main before SAM was introduced. Them holding off on the redesign of DRG is huge imo. While I miss HW DRG design, the current DRG for the most part is really well balanced. I wish stardiver did more damage, but the overall design of its rotation is really good.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

okay, then elaborate why you like the current Direction of Samurai,

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Look at a certain log site and you will have your answer.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

What optimism? The backlash from SAM was so severe they actually are delaying the SAM And AST changes they had planned. It's basically a firm admission they are well aware we are beyond pissed off and DRG/AST are also extremely popular jobs like SAM was.

The likelihood of SAM changes coming in 6.2 and us potentially getting kaiten back just doubled. Go back into your little cave you troll.

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Not surprised,

So what exactly is wrong & so offended to you that I disagree otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Being called Troll ongoing for one when truly I am not? There’s your answer.

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huh? You started gloating and antagonizing the posters, I'm not quite sure what you were expecting.

In the words of your brethren: cope

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Originally Posted by Vencio

No one asked you to post here nor am I trolling.

While not surprised this is new, it’s honestly getting old…..why not just walk away & keep to your posts Celesticer instead of further spamming as though in attempts to flood this posts?

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You have in the past according to your post history, been very vocal to trolling Samurai threads and Samurai posts specifically for reasons I can't quite explain. Over 30 anti-Samurai posts btw... across multiple threads... it is actually obnoxious. Then again I won't digress trying to rationalize human stupidity... You will be met with a lot of push back, for obvious reasons. It's trolling, with 0 argue points even if you were genuine as you have been for 3 months.

This thread is just Dismissive and Misleading of what Samurai's genuinely want. I don't speak for all Samurai's, but my god... " this thread, definitely does NOT speak for me as a Samurai only player ".

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

huh? You started gloating and antagonizing the posters, I'm not quite sure what you were expecting.

In the words of your brethren: cope

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The same can be said of some of you (not at you directly regardless).

Either outcome it all resulted into hostility & evidently we’re living in times where certain opposite ideas converts a bitter impulsive reaction.

While I will not shy away from my past posts (which I’ve nothing to hide), this post on the other hand was not meant to antagonize anyone nor provoke those whom lately had “skirmishes” based on the highlights of today.

All in all feel free to judge otherwise

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Being called Troll ongoing for one when truly I am not? There’s your answer.

RyuuZero this is for you,

Before 6.1 SAM was still at its greatest peak & its one DPS job I value with such reverance that sadly it was also targeted as the “selfish DPS” when in truth it far delivered great consistency & ungodly bursts & Kaiten was the bonus for that without disagreeing otherwise.

Though I will be frank I will never know why Kaiten was removed & though it took me a week to adjust its changes, I cannot deny that I do support the streamlined of abilities which (as I’ve previously mentioned) makes it far pragmatic, simpler & just buff up other areas. This very same point landed me with harsh criticisms & attacks particularly for those that deemed me to say “I don’t know how to play the job or Trolling” when in truth I do & at the same time a casual that just strolls about simpler content & couldn’t be bothered with savage etc., in which parse damage is a domain by which some players honored & reinforced. I don’t object to that while at the same time I dislike how it slowly seeks to make it a META (as an ex WoW I was always adamant & I am glad this game takes a different approach to that).

On short, I do miss Kaiten while I am also moving on & can sort of see the Dev’s perspective on it & the job still retains strong as it is.

It is not butchered nor left out on the dust.

Yes I do strongly support shortening abilities & a reason why I adore PvP’s simplicity so therefore I am able to have more spatial awareness & appreciate the fictional world in my eyes rather than have a flooded ability bars go over my screen & disperse my ideal of immersion.

Yes I play on Ps4 & no longer fond of PC.

I hope this was a sufficient answer to you RyuuZero

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If your responses were phrased more this on the regular, you'd be receiving less antagonism, regardless of how much many disagree with your viewpoint.

Thank you for actually trying to elaborate. We still disagree with the changes and I remain tentative until they actually say something about the feedback proper.

I don't think I've seen a less popular change for a class in a very long time. I was very excitedly working on my Samurai myself for roleplay reasons and I just felt so deflated after the removal of Kaiten.

It just really ruined the feel of the class and the fantasy of it all by itself, and I haven't seen a single poster honestly loving the change. If they exist, it has to be such a small minority (like, less than 1%...)

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Being called Troll ongoing for one when truly I am not? There’s your answer.

RyuuZero this is for you,

Before 6.1 SAM was still at its greatest peak & its one DPS job I value with such reverance that sadly it was also targeted as the “selfish DPS” when in truth it far delivered great consistency & ungodly bursts & Kaiten was the bonus for that without disagreeing otherwise.

Though I will be frank I will never know why Kaiten was removed & though it took me a week to adjust its changes, I cannot deny that I do support the streamlined of abilities which (as I’ve previously mentioned) makes it far pragmatic, simpler & just buff up other areas. This very same point landed me with harsh criticisms & attacks particularly for those that deemed me to say “I don’t know how to play the job or Trolling” when in truth I do & at the same time a casual that just strolls about simpler content & couldn’t be bothered with savage etc., in which parse damage is a domain by which some players honored & reinforced. I don’t object to that while at the same time I dislike how it slowly seeks to make it a META (as an ex WoW I was always adamant & I am glad this game takes a different approach to that).

On short, I do miss Kaiten while I am also moving on & can sort of see the Dev’s perspective on it & the job still retains strong as it is.

It is not butchered nor left out on the dust.

Yes I do strongly support shortening abilities & a reason why I adore PvP’s simplicity so therefore I am able to have more spatial awareness & appreciate the fictional world in my eyes rather than have a flooded ability bars go over my screen & disperse my ideal of immersion.

Yes I play on Ps4 & no longer fond of PC.

I hope this was a sufficient answer to you RyuuZero

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you know I respect that, even if I'm one of those voices wanting Kaiten back, though my main issue with 6.1x PvE Samurai is that 'I have sit on 20 Kenki with nothing to do with' ><" and true! 6.1 PvP Samurai was (maybe still is, but I got rusty with it) great. I mean I witness a 5men Kill from a Samurai and while he killed us, I wasn't even mad, rather proud of him pulling it off.. yet we still won that match xD

Go home Vencio, you only exist to try and stir up drama

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Oh wow, so instead of being bitter and passive aggressive because those whiny vocal SAM players are "taking away" attention, maybe I should actually be supportive because someone finally being loud enough to force SE to rethink their baffling job design philosophy might just save my main from being butchered in the future?

Who'd thunk.

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And if they still make changes Dragoons don't like, do we blame those same "Vocal Samurai Players"?

Or do we only accept responsibility when we perceive it as a good thing?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

And if they still make changes Dragoons don't like, do we blame those same "Vocal Samurai Players"?

Or do we only accept responsibility when we perceive it as a good thing?

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I rather blame whoever at Square was responsible for the horrible changes and possibly horrible changes to Dragoon, rather then another player or a troll adding fuel to the Fire.

Stated in the last LiveLetter from Yoshi P's words is that they even thought about leaving everything the same, and the possible risk of the changes being met negatively while also knowing removing what was fun being quite risky and that Yoshi P will take responsibility if you read the quotes. So they know it wasn't going to be well received, and THEY take responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Happy Friday! How goes?

To keep it short & simple,

SAM job is not “dead” as many deemed it to be all because of being streamlined which frankly the job still remains just effectively good unless you allow yourself for parse damage dictate otherwise.

Thank you Yoshida for remaining steady with your changes & I was one of the few that supported 6.1 SAM’s changes which I am far delighted & pleased.

I look forward to see what’s beyond 6.2 in the future & once again thank you for remaining truthful & absolute wirh your changes!

Cheers,

---

Main Class Paladin

you don't have a horse in this fight; you clearly do not love the current iteration of SAM enough to show it. This is why people are calling you a troll.

Not to disappoint you but I do & that’s why I support the changes.

I get called Troll regardless even if putting my input.

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Originally Posted by Vencio

Not to disappoint you but I do & that’s why I support the changes.

I get called Troll regardless even if putting my input.

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You get called a troll because your posts are passive aggressive and your points are that of someone who doesn't understand the job on top of the fact you don't even main it. Go away.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You get called a troll because your posts are passive aggressive and your points are that of someone who doesn't understand the job on top of the fact you don't even main it. Go away.

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Why are you even bothering?

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Originally Posted by Theodric_Thorne

You don't even play SAM

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This is the case for most of these takes I find lol.
I've seen this a ton with people who talk about MNK too, and they argue very confidently against people who have played MNK since ARR without even having started Pugilist xD...

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

This is the case for most of these takes I find lol.
I've seen this a ton with people who talk about MNK too, and they argue very confidently against people who have played MNK since ARR without even having started Pugilist xD...

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And it's exactly because of this that we lost our positionals >: (

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

This is the case for most of these takes I find lol.
I've seen this a ton with people who talk about MNK too, and they argue very confidently against people who have played MNK since ARR without even having started Pugilist xD...

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Don't really need to be a Monk expert to recognize the shallow and boring nature of most of the current melees and tanks, including Monk. I'm less inclined to be skeptical about someone's suggestions based on what they've played and more on whether they think something like Summoner is well designed.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

Don't really need to be a Monk expert to recognize the shallow and boring nature of most of the current melees and tanks, including Monk. I'm less inclined to be skeptical about someone's suggestions based on what they've played and more on whether they think something like Summoner is well designed.

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Hey, summoner is well designed... If you're in need of a sleep aid.

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Originally Posted by Ruminous

Hey, summoner is well designed... If you're in need of a sleep aid.

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Tbh the only reason I brought up Summoner is because I recall the person I was replying to mentioning it was well designed. I just found it funny since they tried to discredit my view on the Monk rework based on a false assumption that I haven't leveled the job.

Yeah, I figured so. But I couldn't resist pointing out how good current summoner is if you need something to help you get to sleep.

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Originally Posted by Ruminous

Yeah, I figured so. But I couldn't resist pointing out how good current summoner is if you need something to help you get to sleep.

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No disagreement there. While I likely won't be trying it any time soon, I can appreciate that it's there for me during hard times when I can't fall asleep.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

Tbh the only reason I brought up Summoner is because I recall the person I was replying to mentioning it was well designed. I just found it funny since they tried to discredit my view on the Monk rework based on a false assumption that I haven't leveled the job.

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Honestly, the premise of both smn and mnk redesigns are really good. The problem is they were executed poorly leaving a pretty dry gameplay for both of them.

Let's not fool ourselves, 6.0 MNK stuck the landing better than SMN did. As much as I have my problems with the current iteration (I could talk for days about it but this is a SAM thread not a MNK thread) I will not deny the good points that came around because of the new design, such as Nadi optimization, Thunderclap or Bootshine having less of a strangle hold on the rotation.

If ShB MNK was a 3/10, then EW MNK is a 5/10 to me. Decent, but still has some major problems such as boring downtime, useless buttons (Riddle of Wind, Riddle of Earth, Anatman, etc), Blitz has no presence outside of RoF, the job still lacks a clear identity for itself and Chakra still remains as the biggest issue to the job. What we gained does not entirely make up for what was lost.

That's all I'll say on the matter unless I suddenly recall something else I may have missed.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Let's not fool ourselves, 6.0 MNK stuck the landing better than SMN did. As much as I have my problems with the current iteration (I could talk for days about it but this is a SAM thread not a MNK thread) I will not deny the good points that came around because of the new design, such as Nadi optimization, Thunderclap or Bootshine having less of a strangle hold on the rotation.

If ShB MNK was a 3/10, then EW MNK is a 5/10 to me. Decent, but still has some major problems such as boring downtime, useless buttons (Riddle of Wind, Riddle of Earth, Anatman, etc), Blitz has no presence outside of RoF, the job still lacks a clear identity for itself and Chakra still remains as the biggest issue to the job. What we gained does not entirely make up for what was lost.

That's all I'll say on the matter unless I suddenly recall something else I may have missed.

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I’d probably call them both 5/10s, but with points derived from different places. If dftc just paused gl deterioration they could easily have addressed at least one complaint.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Honestly, the premise of both smn and mnk redesigns are really good. The problem is they were executed poorly leaving a pretty dry gameplay for both of them.

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Definitely. Seeing how popular SMN is means they got certain things right with the job, likely aesthetically which is also a very valid part about job design (one of the main things turning me away from Monk). I just wish the gameplay wasn't so poorly executed

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

Don't really need to be a Monk expert to recognize the shallow and boring nature of most of the current melees and tanks, including Monk. I'm less inclined to be skeptical about someone's suggestions based on what they've played and more on whether they think something like Summoner is well designed.

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I dunno about expert, but considering that most MNK players aren't even playing it properly I'd say that yeah you kinda need to have some level of understanding of it if you're going to speak about it.
MNK is way more interesting and flexible with Optimal Drift but most people think it's '' too hard '' and don't use it, but it clearly feels like the intended way to play.
SMN is different because it really has nothing going on, but MNK at its core isn't shallow at all the issue is primarily that it's missing something in the downtime and that it still has some shitty stuff like Anatman that should've been reworked a long time ago.
You can't know if you think it's boring either if you haven't played it, I play all melee ( in all the content minus Ultimate ) and they feel very different from each other people get way too hung up on the 2 min burst thing.
Yes the 2 min burst thing is a thing and I do think too much revolves around it, but in practice I don't think that they're shallow or boring.
I don't actively play most Tanks the only Tank I really play actively is GNB and I think GNB is pretty fun too the main issue with it is how Continuation makes it annoying to move bosses/ adds.
And their defensives are too homogenized.

People talking too much out their ass is part of the problem and why bad decisions are being made and I am not all that interested in the view of someone who haven't played something and don't even understand how something plays.
Even if there are certain issues they can identify it's not very useful because in the end of the day they won't have an informed first-hand view on it and won't understand the effect certain changes are going to have or even why something is a problem or they'll think that something is a problem when it isn't.

BLM isn't melee but I still think it's a good example of this too, people constantly keep on saying that BLM has no mobility and is super hard because of it and that RDM has great mobility because of Dualcast, in reality BLM is more mobile than RDM.
People just don't understand nor utilize their tools properly.
And if they don't then I don't think they should be the driving force behind Job changes.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

Tbh the only reason I brought up Summoner is because I recall the person I was replying to mentioning it was well designed. I just found it funny since they tried to discredit my view on the Monk rework based on a false assumption that I haven't leveled the job.

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Wait... What?
Either I haven't said that or you're reading a lot into something else I've said...
I think I've said before that the core foundation of SMN is well-designed, that doesn't mean that the Job itself on a whole is well-designed.

I've never said that SMN isn't too simple and unfinished because it is.
But the core of SMN is fine ( the Summoning cycle ), it's just boring and too spammy with the same buttons.

It's not a false assumption anyone can go and check your profile.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Let's not fool ourselves, 6.0 MNK stuck the landing better than SMN did. As much as I have my problems with the current iteration (I could talk for days about it but this is a SAM thread not a MNK thread) I will not deny the good points that came around because of the new design, such as Nadi optimization, Thunderclap or Bootshine having less of a strangle hold on the rotation.

If ShB MNK was a 3/10, then EW MNK is a 5/10 to me. Decent, but still has some major problems such as boring downtime, useless buttons (Riddle of Wind, Riddle of Earth, Anatman, etc), Blitz has no presence outside of RoF, the job still lacks a clear identity for itself and Chakra still remains as the biggest issue to the job. What we gained does not entirely make up for what was lost.

That's all I'll say on the matter unless I suddenly recall something else I may have missed.

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I agree with the downtime issue and some buttons feeling useless, altho I think Riddle of Earth is a pretty strong Defensive tbh.
20% less damage on a hit is quite a lot especially with big AoE damage going out in Savage it can be the difference between life and death, I've definitely had moments where I survived and the rest of the DPS didn't because of it.
But yeah Anatman is just weird I really hated the opening with it in SHB too you shouldn't need an addon to see server ticks just for your opener.
MNK has a history of this tho and cursed rotations, MNK in EW is probably the most stable MNK has ever been even if it has some problems.

I don't really agree with lack of identity but I am not exactly sure what you mean with that either.
I wish Chakra was less RNG-based tho I rly don't enjoy Chakra clipping when you got Brotherhood rolling and they don't always register immediately either.
But yeah MNK has issues, but so does every Job and they always will I think.
I don't think there has ever been a perfect Job or Class in a MMO, the closest I can think of rly is BLM they've had a really good streak pretty much the whole way through.
MNK is currently in a very good position tho imo both in regards to numbers and gameplay, most of the issues are issues that were already there too and weren't added in EW.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

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I just wanna say that it's probably best not to turn this into a dick measuring contest. With that being said, it's an incredibly dumb idea to look up someone's lodestone after seeing multiple posts from them criticizing ultimates and the jobs they play, and just assume that the person doesn't play those jobs. I will admit that Monk and Dragoon are the only two melees I haven't taken beyond first two fights of a savage, but as you've mentioned yourself - no need to be an expert, which you're also far from.
You don't know who I am or what content I've cleared with which jobs, obviously a split loot character from ShB won't have the lodestone numbers you're looking for, I raided with 3 characters. 1 for split savage loot that never got far, and the other to play on a different DC with friends.

Can't really comment much about your BLM remark since I don't know much about anything besides Melee / Tank, but regardless of how easy you find Black Mage, I doubt it's going to be quite as sleep inducing as Red Mage was when I tried it.