Turn Housing Demolition on

It's time, please turn it back on again. It's been what, an additional 3 months now? It's been overall what, almost 6 months?? It's time to turn it back on. Ok ty.

House auto demolition is a necessary evil in a game with limited housing like FFXIV. Disabling it for the first month of a new expansion is fine but beyond that, it should be active all the time. The timer should also be lowered to 30 days from 90 days due just how many people are playing and want a house.

I appreciate the deactivation of auto demolition was extended due to the conflict in Ukraine but ultimately that isn't ending any time soon and I think it's time to just accept the possibility of a displaced Ukrainian losing their virtual house. Likewise, maybe Square Enix should reconsider the non-expansion launch pauses they've historically done when something bad happens, especially when the timer is 90 days.

EDIT: I already know this stance is probably going to draw heat from at least one person. Yes, I'm a player that's tried to get a house under the camp and raffle system but hasn't been successful. No, this isn't me being salty. Yes, I live in a country (the UK) that won't go to war like this without it basically being WW3. No, this isn't me trying to push some kind of privilege thing or whatever you'd want to call it. As explained above, a limited housing system ultimately needs a mechanic to keep availability up and it's a necessary evil regardless of the reason why someone can't play.

The "we stopped it because of the ukraine/russia conflict" excuse is getting ridiculous by now.

Put it back on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

The "we stopped it because of the ukraine/russia conflict" excuse is getting ridiculous by now.

Put it back on.

---

... Do you think that's over?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

... Do you think that's over?

---

Now where did I say that ?

If it's not over then the timer should stay on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Now where did I say that ?

---

Then why would the excuse be any less valid? Especially since the effects that it was halted for have done nothing but get bigger. Food shortages, people displaced, global economy impacts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xirean

If it's not over then the timer should stay on.

---

Should we do that for every other war then ? What about the war in Syria and other countries ? Why doesnt that matter ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

Then why would the excuse be any less valid? Especially since the effects that it was halted for have done nothing but get bigger. Food shortages, people displaced, global economy impacts.

---

Sure, then lets be fair. Let's do the same about the war in Syria and other countries that are at war at the moment. Let's halt house demos until those wars are over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

Then why would the excuse be any less valid? Especially since the effects that it was halted for have done nothing but get bigger. Food shortages, people displaced, global economy impacts.

---

Sure but if you’re game design choices are going to constantly react to global events, you might as well not make anything. For the majority of the player base, the life and thus the game goes on. Auto demolition and it’s timer are a part of the designed housing system to ensure the limited number of plots don’t become held by people that stop playing (which also doubles up with the fact subscription MMOs have design mechanics to keep you subscribed for as many months as possible). Even if the war ended tomorrow, the consequences will be around for a lot longer after but that doesn’t mean the game can’t function normally with a housing auto demolition system.

EDIT: This discussion is ultimately more about the underlying choice as to why auto demolition is disabled rather than the specific event that caused it this time around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Sure, then lets be fair. Let's do the same about the war in Syria and other countries that are at war at the moment.

---

None of which have the same global impact. We are being fair.

It speaks a lot to the amount of people frustrated and the poor structuring of housing that y'all'd love to just act like nothings happening so you can get your virtual house..... but yeah.

The globally impacting , exceedingly dangerous to the entire civilized world conflict continues.. lots of people have more to worry about than their FFXIV house and it's a nice gesture that they don't have to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johners

Sure but if you’re game design choices are going to constantly react to global events, you might as well not make anything.

---

.. that makes no sense at all. "If you're going to have to change things because of stuff that happens, never do stuff"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johners

For the majority of the player base, the life and thus the game goes on. Auto demolition and it’s timer are a part of the designed housing system to ensure the limited number of plots don’t become held by people that stop playing (which also doubles up with the fact subscription MMOs have design mechanics to keep you subscribed for as many months as possible). Even if the war ended tomorrow, the consequences will be around for a lot longer after but that doesn’t mean the game can’t function normally with a housing auto demolition system.

---

Well yes, we COULD ignore all the people affected directly and indirectly who have other concerns with their lives and yeah, you and people like you have absolutely no concerns about the war going on... but I would say there are a lot of other people who do.. and as that concern and effect has not stopped, just saying "well I'm tired of waiting and it doesn't affect me so turn it on" is bluntly, selfish as heck.


honestly rather than turning it back on they should just.. rework housing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

None of which have the same global impact. We are being fair.

It speaks a lot to the amount of people frustrated and the poor structuring of housing that y'all'd love to just act like nothings happening so you can get your virtual house..... but yeah.

The globally impacting , exceedingly dangerous to the entire civilized world conflict continues.. lots of people have more to worry about than their FFXIV house and it's a nice gesture that they don't have to.

---

Certainly not, we have to be fair to every war that is going on right now if we stop for one. Period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Should we do that for every other war then ? What about the war in Syria and other countries ? Why doesnt that matter ?

---

Sure go for it. I'm not the one that makes the rule. But I'll support one that makes sense and seems fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It would be fair if it was halted for every war that is currently going on, which it isnt.

---

Then contact the mods about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xirean

Sure go for it. I'm not the one that makes the rule. But I'll support one that makes sense and seems fair.

---

It would be fair if it was halted for every war that is currently going on, which it isnt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Certainly not, we have to be fair to every war that is going on right now if we stop for one. Period.

---

you're acting like every war affects everyone and everywhere the same.. which they decidedly don't. This isn't just "omg there's a war" .. there are a LOT of effects worldwide if you'd care to pay attention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

you're acting like every war affects everyone and everywhere the same.. which they decidedly don't. This isn't just "omg there's a war" .. there are a LOT of effects worldwide if you'd care to pay attention.

---

Bias doesnt work for wars now does it ? You chose who you stand for and who you dont stand for ? Based on what ? People are still dying on those countries, daily, why do they matter less?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

Well yes, we COULD ignore all the people affected directly and indirectly who have other concerns with their lives and yeah, you and people like you have absolutely no concerns about the war going on... but I would say there are a lot of other people who do.. and as that concern and effect has not stopped, just saying "well I'm tired of waiting and it doesn't affect me so turn it on" is bluntly, selfish as heck.


honestly rather than turning it back on they should just.. rework housing.

---

Auto demolition exists for entering valid reasons, I’m simply calling out disabling it for extended periods of time when the majority of the player base are able to login and play fine. Besides, you could throw the selfish argument around for even releasing a content update. Why should we get to play patch 6.1 when there’s people impacted by this war that can’t play at all?

At no point have I disregarded the victims of this war, or any other war, but to constantly adjust game design choices around such events is an simply impossible task, especially when it’s an event that could easily run on for years. Even if you want to call it selfish, there’s all nothing wrong with those of us unaffected enjoying entertainment products to their fullest like nothing happened.

Reworking housing is another discussion entirely and even if they did that, the entire system should still be functioning fully until we reach said future reworked housing system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Bias doesnt work for wars now does it ? You chose who you stand for and who you dont stand for ? Based on what ? People are still dying on those countries, daily, why do they matter less?

---

I imagine it's a much simpler reason. They have players from Ukraine, but not Syria.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Bias doesnt work for wars now does it ? You chose who you stand for and who you dont stand for ? Based on what ? People are still dying on those countries, daily, why do they matter less?

---

Simply because they impact less customers. Right now there are Ukrainians (and hey.. probably all the Russians too) who cant play as a direct result. There are also others who have far more real concerns than a FFXIV subscription right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johners

Auto demolition exists for entering valid reasons, I’m simply calling out disabling it for extended periods of time when the majority of the player base are able to login and play fine.

---

Who says? While you and your friend circle may be unaffected, are you a "majority"? Considering there are no hard numbers available this isn't a particularly solid statement to make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johners

Besides, you could throw the selfish argument around for even releasing a content update. Why should we get to play patch 6.1 when there’s people impacted by this war that can’t play at all?

---

Patch 6.1 isn't going anywhere though. That content is still available and will BE availible until such time as they decide to remove it.. and IF, at that time , they decide to delay changing it because people had a significantly shorter window to experience it, I'll feel the same way. This isn't about getting to experience something first, this is about losing something you probably invested a lot of time or other resources into that is currently a crazy limited resource in itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johners

At no point have I disregarded the victims of this war, or any other war, but to constantly adjust game design choices around such events is an simply impossible task, especially when it’s an event that could easily run on for years. Even if you want to call it selfish, there’s all nothing wrong with those of us unaffected enjoying entertainment products to their fullest like nothing happened.

---

They seem to be implementing it fine. The only pushback is people such as yourself who are unaffected and as such feel you shouldn't be affected in any way. Not to mention that as we speak most servers still have personal housing up for grabs and likely will have a bunch of smalls swapped over to "private" available once the FC housing has settled, just like they said they would.

Go ahead and continue to enjoy your products like nothing happened. The rest of the world is going to happen though and maybe you can consider this an affect on you. Personally I'm not super jazzed about a bunch of ingredients for food I like to make (IRL) going up in price or lacking in supply... but I will accept that as an affect and continue on with the rest of my life without demanding I be unaffected since I have no direct stake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johners

Reworking housing is another discussion entirely and even if they did that, the entire system should still be functioning fully until we reach said future reworked housing system.

---

It's working fully right now. The pause and resumption of the demolition system is part of it working. It used to NOT even be a thing.. so it changed and they've shown again and again that they will pause it for widespread effects of world happenings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xirean

If it's not over then the timer should stay on.

---

Don't know if you know this, but wars tend to take several years. It's extremely rare that they're just a few months. People who thought this would be over in weeks clearly were not well educated on the history of wars.

So they have two choices right now.

1. Tell everyone that demolition will no longer be a thing and we don't have to be subbed to keep our houses forever
2. Turn it back on and whoever isnt subbed loses their house to someone who is subbed

I've said this before and I'll say it again although I'm aware that it's crass.
Whoever didnt make it out of there by now is never logging in again. It's a war. They're not coming back. Which is tragic and I'm sorry, I hate that all of this happened too. but we can't pause everything forever. and even if it ended today, those people would still be gone. Do you understand? I'm sorry that they've passed, but plenty of xiv players have passed and their houses eventually were demo'd. We didnt pause the demo on any of their houses for all eternity. This is only fair. It needs to be turned back on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Batbrat

So they have two choices right now.

1. Tell everyone that demolition will no longer be a thing and we don't have to be subbed to keep our houses forever
2. Turn it back on and whoever isnt subbed loses their house to someone who is subbed

---

I also see a third choice.

3. Not do or say anything until something changes.

Oh lol I thought it was back on. I've been going inside my house for the last few months for nothing then :p

It has everything to do with areas of operation. There were three regions in which Square officially operated Final Fantasy XIV: North America, Europe, and Japan, none of which have seen a war in decades - the Balkan Wars happened in the 90s - until Ukraine was attacked.
(I am not sure if the same is true for Oceania, though I highly doubt New Zealand and Australia have been involved in any wars in recent history either. Not sure about the smaller Oceanian nations though.)

While wars have happened in other regions, those were not reason to suspend demolition, because they did not affect an area Square officially does business in, and are thus unlikely to have a large playerbase for the game in. That's it. Anyone going "but there is always a war somewhere" is engaging in bizarre levels of hyperbole.

I can see why events in Europe mist justify pausing demolition on the EU servers.
I don't see why it should pause demolition on the NA and JP servers; the number of players harmed by continuing demolition on those servers would be miniscule compared to the number who benefit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverbane

I can see why events in Europe mist justify pausing demolition on the EU servers.
I don't see why it should pause demolition on the NA and JP servers; the number of players harmed by continuing demolition on those servers would be miniscule compared to the number who benefit.

---

You'd be surprised. There are plenty of us EU folk over on the NA servers.

Also, I'd argue the "harm" inflicted by there being less housing available due to a lack of demolition is miniscule compared to the one inflicted by someone losing their house through no fault of their own on top of an already shitty situation.
The moment one concedes that housing demolition suspension in a crisis is in principle the right call, even if it is only a token gesture of goodwill towards people who have other worries at the moment, then one can't argue that somehow people not being able to get a house to begin with, but who are otherwise fine somehow need their "distress" balanced against the actual distress of people in real trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KuroMaboroshi

You'd be surprised. There are plenty of us EU folk over on the NA servers.

---

SE should IMO actively discourage players from making investments in immobile game assets outside their home geography.

I'll go farther and suggest that SE should outright prohibited people from owning houses on servers in a geography other than their own. Yes, I know people can use VPNs to get around this, but I still think it would be a good idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverbane

I'll go farther and suggest that SE should outright prohibited people from owning houses on servers in a geography other than their own. Yes, I know people can use VPNs to get around this, but I still think it would be a good idea.

---

This can't be a serious take, can it? I have been swallowing bait again, haven't I? Shame on me...

It's fine though, you can have "my" housing spot I didn't end up taking on the EU DC.

Wait, it's been off...? Thank god I actually knuckled down and relenquished my back to the market. I was considering sitting on it till it auto demolished so I could get some of my gil back, but figured it'd take too long when I thought demolish was on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KuroMaboroshi

...though I highly doubt New Zealand and Australia have been involved in any wars in recent history either.

---

Not recently, but the Australian army did lose to a bunch of wild birds in the Great Emu War of 1932.

I think it should be turned on and I own a house. No point having them owned by inactives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Oh lol I thought it was back on. I've been going inside my house for the last few months for nothing then :p

---

It's good to get into the habit of doing it, honestly. I've been doing it myself so it becomes a routine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SendohJin

I also see a third choice.

3. Not do or say anything until something changes.

---

Yes, I could also sit in silence and never once complain about anything because SE is god I'm a good little gamer who simply pays my money and praises them as good and great no matter what they do nor how bad it is. OR. OR!!!! OR I could not be muzzled like I'm 5 years old and suggest things that I'm thinking-so here I am! Here I am,

Turn Housing Demolition on, please! It's time-it's been time for quite a while now! Please tell us how much longer it will be on if it must still be kept on! Ty for reading!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

But.... SE is Japanese.... What even is this logic....

---

You'd be surprised how many rather "interesting" individuals consider asians in general to just be "white people".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

You'd be surprised how many rather "interesting" individuals consider asians in general to just be "white people".

---

Well even the mighty Lord considered them as "Asia's Aryans"

You know, the war between North Korea and South Korea isn't over either. They are in a perpetual stalemate.

The point I'm making is that there will always be a reason to keep the timer off. If not the Russia/Ukraine conflict, then it will be millions of displaced refugees that aren't settled for years. Or the millions of displaced refugees from Syria years ago. Or an earthquake. Or a hurricane.

The precedent Square Enix has set will always beg the question: If SE shut off the auto-demo timer for X, then why not for Y?

If SE recognizes that natural and man-made disasters are reasons to stop the loss of virtual real estate in a video game for those affected... then maybe they should realize the ridiculousness of their system in the first place. The pausing and restarting the auto-demolition timer isn't the solution. Remove the timer entirely and change the system so all players can have housing going forward.

Wait the timer is OFF ? :D

"take note" thanks for the heads up, i missed that information !

Theres always conflict going on and wouldn't ones from Ukraine be playing on the EU database. So the Jp and NA database shouldn't have it turned off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspguy

If SE recognizes that natural and man-made disasters are reasons to stop the loss of virtual real estate in a video game for those affected... then maybe they should realize the ridiculousness of their system in the first place. The pausing and restarting the auto-demolition timer isn't the solution. Remove the timer entirely and change the system so all players can have housing going forward.

---

Ultimately it's this. Square Enix added the auto demolition system, after the housing wards were added, due to the fact some players go inactive. Regardless of the reason why someone goes inactive, the current limited availability housing system necessitates this timer.

Changing the housing system to an entirely different ownership model, whether that be instanced housing or simply throwing more wards at the problem, is something you do with an expansions release and if it were going to change in 6.x we'd have been told already. Until then, the existing system NEEDS an active timer for the majority of an expansions life-cycle for the system to be fully functional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syln

Wait the timer is OFF ? :D

"take note" thanks for the heads up, i missed that information !

---

It's been off since Endwalker released due to the insane server queues

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hynaku

Theres always conflict going on and wouldn't ones from Ukraine be playing on the EU database. So the Jp and NA database shouldn't have it turned off.

---

To be fair, SE didn't mention ze war. The playerbase just didn't look further than the headlines at the time.

They said "current world situation" which is quite wider than just Ukraine/Russia (which is still biting all of us right now on energy and by christmas on semiconductors).

The whole world is a bit of hell-in-a-handbasket right now. Job losses, inflation, prices at the bowser, electricity bills, rate rises. And with a likely bulk of the playing demographic being middle aged or under, money is tighter for quite a portion of them.

For all those people finding it harder to play because petroleum is pushing US$1.33 (USA) -> US$1.78 (Canada) -> US$2.86 (Norway) a litre - or who's mortage/rent just went up $400 a month, or who's food just went up 30%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspguy

You know, the war between North Korea and South Korea isn't over either. They are in a perpetual stalemate.

---

And both sides, for better or worse, go about their lives as normal. North Koreans are unable to use the open internet and therefore never had FFXIV accounts. South Koreans are heavy internet users and potentially FFXIV account users but remain provided with easy internet access and no threat to their "normal" way of life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspguy

The point I'm making is that there will always be a reason to keep the timer off.

---

No there really won't. There are a few certain points that the FFXIV team seems to consider when turning it on and off. For every time I can think of it was a large impact to subscribers that may prevent or make it difficult for them to play. There is not always an event with these effects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspguy

If not the Russia/Ukraine conflict, then it will be millions of displaced refugees that aren't settled for years. Or the millions of displaced refugees from Syria years ago. Or an earthquake. Or a hurricane.

---

The world is a tumultuous place.. but it is not always affecting FFXIV to a degree that warrants demo pausing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspguy

The precedent Square Enix has set will always beg the question: If SE shut off the auto-demo timer for X, then why not for Y?

---

It does not. It's easily seen they will decide when it effects enough people (who potentially play FFXIV) they will decided to stop demos. A hurricane or war in a 3rd world country or other such undeveloped area would not. All X's are not Y's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspguy

If SE recognizes that natural and man-made disasters are reasons to stop the loss of virtual real estate in a video game for those affected... then maybe they should realize the ridiculousness of their system in the first place. The pausing and restarting the auto-demolition timer isn't the solution. Remove the timer entirely and change the system so all players can have housing going forward.

---

I mean.. solving the housing limitation is the ultimate solution for pretty much everyones problems... but for whatever reason has not been an option for 8 years.