Rapiers

I feel the need to ask, are the completely separate teams of people who work on the weapons in this game per class?

The reason I'm asking is because when I look at Samurai weapons, they almost all look very sharp, at least relative to a lot of the other weapons in this game, which have wedges wide enough to the point where they look like they'd crush a loaf of bread rather than cut it;

In particular, or the most egregious ones IMO are the rapiers that Red Mages use, because a very unfortunate number of them look like Philips-head screwdrivers. Like they don't appear to have a cutting edge (which rapiers typically have, despite their forte being stabbing) they just have like 4 edges; none of which are particularly, i dont know, sharp looking? its almost like most of them are metal 2x2x50 chunk that you hit people with

like really, just look at some of them from the front. if the tip looks more like [ ] then ()
don't you think thats kinda weird? even stylistically i just feel like it looks bad

so its almost like a ton of them are really long rectangular cuboids or even just flat out cylinders with a point; whats going on over there? would it really look so bad if they were a little thinner?

try to look past this as like an OCD thing or something and as a actually point that should be discussed because this is basically a AAA game; i just wanna know if anyone else has noticed this
and i'm totally aware that theyre half-staff, im just saying they are also half-sword, and i dont typically consider blunt chunks of metal swords

*Gets idea for a Fencing class*
*Desire for Rapiers intensifies.*

in a fantasy game, most weapons, armor even magic.. is not based in reality.

find what works best, FOR YOU, and use it. thats why glam is good. it will save a lot of mental gymnastics, and it seems ultimately, your sanity.

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Originally Posted by Vav2021

*Gets idea for a Fencing class*
*Desire for Rapiers intensifies.*

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rapiers are woefully underrated and underrepresented in fantasy despite being as good as they are

but heres an example

this is murgleis, which is kind of fat tbh but a step in the right direction

https://puu.sh/J1V8E/8719562d43.png

this is the shire rapier

https://puu.sh/J1Vbr/9528e886ff.png

durium lol

https://puu.sh/J1Vdt/8a693f00df.png

allagan

https://puu.sh/J1Vec/05ca6ab38b.png

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

in a fantasy game, most weapons, armor even magic.. is not based in reality.

find what works best, FOR YOU, and use it. thats why glam is good. it will save a lot of mental gymnastics, and it seems ultimately, your sanity.

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theres alot more but i just have to wonder among all the people who play the class, does anyone actually like this? i typically just use murgleis, as im well aware i should just use what works best for me; but i just feel like this kind of looks awful so i dont know who it's serving is more my point; since (to me) most of them just look really really bad. there's very few of them i like

Behold!
A thrusting sword!

https://pro2-bar-s3-cdn-cf6.myportfo...6ccfc7673af75f

(Yeah, the rapiers are absolutely bonkers and I struggle to find one that actually feels like a cool duelist's sword...)

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

theres alot more but i just have to wonder among all the people who play the class, does anyone actually like this? i typically just use murgleis, as im well aware i should just use what works best for me; but i just feel like this kind of looks awful so i dont know who it's serving is more my point; since (to me) most of them just look really really bad. there's very few of them i like

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I will generally use the Talekeeper recollection, seems fairly rapierish

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Originally Posted by Roda

Behold!
A thrusting sword!

https://pro2-bar-s3-cdn-cf6.myportfo...6ccfc7673af75f

(Yeah, the rapiers are absolutely bonkers and I struggle to find one that actually feels like a cool duelist's sword...)

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its basically a spear with no cutting edge. it just feels odd to me that someone at square enix is calling the shots to make them all look like this. i feel like since you dont hold it like a staff at every other time than casting it should look like a sword when youre holding it.

SE definitely has a sub-set of RDM weapons that are supposed to look more like canes or staves you are holding in a horribly wrong way. Not really my cup of tea but soneone must like those... Right?

To be somewhat fair, it's also a magic wand that you sometimes use to directly hit things with charged magic power. It does rather pathetic damage in its unenchanted state.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

To be somewhat fair, it's also a magic wand that you sometimes use to directly hit things with charged magic power. It does rather pathetic damage in its unenchanted state.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

SE definitely has a sub-set of RDM weapons that are supposed to look more like canes or staves you are holding in a horribly wrong way. Not really my cup of tea but soneone must like those... Right?

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it feels like more than a subset to me

i know, i acknowledged that its a half sword, half staff, but you only hold it like a staff when youre casting with it basically; its kind of weird for the combat idle to be a fencing stance where youre holding a completely different weapon improperly lol
this is a little bit of an exaggeration but its almost like if the samurai's sword only appeared during the iai attacks, like regardless of how often you cast, you always return to a combat idle in-between GCDs, why would the weapon not look like it fit that, rather than the sword being the most important part until you cast, and after that point the focus is what makes it look like a staff?

Like to be super clear, im absolutely complaining about the way the sword half of it looks, not the part that attaches to the focus lol
like im totally cool with the existence of gimmicky weapons, like the Zantetsuken that only pops out when you take it out, or the WAR weapons that are hammers; infact I think some classes should get more of them (like samurai, which has afaik never once deviated from the standard katana, there's no longsword variants or anything akin to a joke weapon) but Red Mage has ALOT of canes and things that look absolutely nothing like swords

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Originally Posted by Iscah

To be somewhat fair, it's also a magic wand that you sometimes use to directly hit things with charged magic power. It does rather pathetic damage in its unenchanted state.

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Not only fair, but also accurate. RDM weapons are wands/staves first, and melee weapons second. Whether the weapon would cause slashing or blunt damage doesn't matter at all due to the enchanted versions of their skills, which are also magically based.

RDM is weird in the sense that how they draw and ready their weapon is totally impractical. They spend the majority of their time casting, yet their base stance has their rapier and the focus detached; so they are constantly attaching and removing it during combat. It would make WAY more sense to just keep the focus attached and stance similar to a BLM or WHM, then remove the focus when engaging enemies in close quarters.

Ahhhh. I've been needing to get that off my chest for like the last three to four years!

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Not only fair, but also accurate. RDM weapons are wands/staves first, and melee weapons second. Whether the weapon would cause slashing or blunt damage doesn't matter at all due to the enchanted versions of their skills, which are also magically based.

RDM is weird in the sense that how they draw and ready their weapon is totally impractical. They spend the majority of their time casting, yet their base stance has their rapier and the focus detached; so they are constantly attaching and removing it during combat. It would make WAY more sense to just keep the focus attached and stance similar to a BLM or WHM, then remove the focus when engaging enemies in close quarters.

Ahhhh. I've been needing to get that off my chest for like the last three to four years!

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Despite doing very little damage the autos are sword strikes as well though (though most are melee attacks) which is probably why the combat idle is the way it is as well
again, i get that they are casters, most of their attacks are magic based but it is still very clearly supposed to be used as a rapier lol; even objectively that's essentially their entire aesthetic apart from their weapon; their class clothing is indicative of that as well

from a stylistic standpoint what doesnt make sense is to make almost every animation other than the ones where you are casting return to the sword stance, including autos, and then have all of the "melee" attacks look like youre using it as a rapier when it doesnt look like that at all (it's not totally fair to say that theyre supposed to just look magic based when nearly half of them are sword oriented, you just spend alot more time building up mana)

i dont really feel like thats a great excuse for them to look the way they do, they'd have to reanimate the hell out of everything to make it look normal; what would probably be simpler is to make the half of the weapon used like a sword look like a sword instead of a metal stick going forward lol

even by a different standard its completely square, the "sword part" doesnt even look like a staff with the focus attached; it doesnt look anything like BLM or WHM weapons; so i dont think its fair to pretend that that's what theyre supposed to be; i think theyre just kind of not really great looking rather than what they are being a deliberate choice

Yeah, despite RDM being my favourite class in the game I find myself disliking the vast majority of their weapons. I get that fantasy weapons don't always need to be, or have to be, realistic but I do feel that there should at least be some level of logic to the weapon in regards to how it's used. And most RDM weapons look, frankly, pretty stupid.

My favourite weapon remains the Laws Order Rapier from the ShB Resistance weapons series, with the Talekeeper from the same series being a close second. Not only do I like the visual effects on both but they actually look like proper usable swords.

They’re basically big wands, which is fine.

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

Despite doing very little damage the autos are sword strikes as well though (though most are melee attacks) which is probably why the combat idle is the way it is as well

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Yeah, that makes enough sense when in melee range. Less so when out of it. It is kind of a give and take here.

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again, i get that they are casters, most of their attacks are magic based but it is still very clearly supposed to be used as a rapier lol; even objectively that's essentially their entire aesthetic apart from their weapon; their class clothing is indicative of that as well

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It's also clearly supposed to be used as a magical weapon such as wand or staff. I am aware that RDM arms serve a dual function. My point is that from a practical standpoint, it makes more sense for RDMs to keep their weapon in a casting stance. Especially considering that they need to build mana before that can enchant their weaponskills.

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i dont really feel like thats a great excuse for them to look the way they do, they'd have to reanimate the hell out of everything to make it look normal; what would probably be simpler is to make the half of the weapon used like a sword look like a sword instead of a metal stick going forward lol

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Oh don't get me wrong. I am just talking in a fantasy world where either you or I could practice red magic. It would definitely be better to always have your focus locked and loaded in a battle situation. I am also aware that RDMs tend to favor style over just about everything else. xD

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Originally Posted by Bad_Luck

They’re basically big wands, which is fine.

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thats more or less what i was saying, everything else is indicative of like a musketeer's outfit, which i believe would be more likely to be running around with a rapier as opposed to a wand; so despite them basically being that, everything else is pointing at them supposed to be being swords. like to an extent, a lot of them LOOK like swords, which is what i said in the OP, but they look like poorly modeled swords; like they're fat, or they have no cutting edge; as if someone modeled them without looking at it from every angle and said "this is fine because its straight"

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Yeah, that makes enough sense when in melee range. Less so when out of it. It is kind of a give and take here.

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well naturally, theres no auto for out of range casters and melees; just ranged; but there is still a return to combat idle (where you point your "sword" at the enemy) inbetween every GCD, or when you're running assuming youre not sliding along the floor from using reprise or slidecasting lmao

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's also clearly supposed to be used as a magical weapon such as wand or staff. I am aware that RDM arms serve a dual function. My point is that from a practical standpoint, it makes more sense for RDMs to keep their weapon in a casting stance. Especially considering that they need to build mana before that can enchant their weaponskills.

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i'm considering the "fantasy" practicality of it less because its a fantasy world, basically
im aware that red mage is a caster and is all magic damage, im more or less pointing at the fact that's that what its pretty clearly supposed to be, going back to me quoting the first guy im actually much more inclined to believe that it's actually just a really not a spectacular modeling job as opposed to a deliberate choice to make it "look like a staff or wand"; since i havent seen anyone ask or confront them about it in an interview or anything im totally unaware of there being a source for that; im just assuming the people who pick red mage who like it partly because of the way it looks would probably appreciate the fact that the sword matches the outfit lol

i mean we still have that TV antenna cryptlurker rapier that you holster uncomfortably in your left kidney everytime you put it away; it definitely isn't a stretch to say that its probably supposed to be a sword and someones not doing a famously good job at it somehow

edit: woops! at some point during a hiatus they mustve fixed it lmao it no longer stabs you in the waist when you put it away
it was still broken when endwalker came out iirc

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Originally Posted by Gemina

RDMs tend to favor style over just about everything else. xD

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Which is why a RDM with bad glamour is no RDM at all

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

im just assuming the people who pick red mage who like it partly because of the way it looks would probably appreciate the fact that the sword matches the outfit lol

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Well, and traditionally they've always used a sword. The types of swords have always changed throughout the years, but they always had a pointy end. I am strictly going by their weapon design in FFXIV, which is rather unique. It would actually be pretty awesome if they changed stance depending on if they are in melee range or not, or just have the ability to change the pose yourself.

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i mean we still have that TV antenna cryptlurker rapier that you holster uncomfortably in your left kidney everytime you put it away; it definitely isn't a stretch to say that its probably supposed to be a sword and someones not doing a famously good job at it somehow

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A lot of RDM weapons are horrendous. I actually lost a bet where I had to use the friggin Dwarven Mythril Rapier for a month. There was never a more satisfying desynth, let me tell ya. But the same can be said for all jobs. I never really noticed a lack of bladed weapons for RDM, but also was never actively looking for them either. I'm currently using the Wild Rose, which is an interesting design, but I don't plan on parting with my egg anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

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100% valid, I share your complaints with regards to RDM weapons... not that a lot of the other Jobs (off the top of my head, WAR, DRK, DRG, for example) aren't also afflicted by this. Weapons that look fine from the side, but then you turn the camera and they're stupidly thick for whatever reason, to the point they look more like weird hammers than anything. The 3D models can be quite inconsistent in this... SAM has thankfully been quite good about that (even if I wish they'd give us more variety), but... because its weapons are more sensibly scaled they end up looking weirdly like toothpicks next to others (PLD swords, for example). It's... made picking weapon glams much more difficult than it probably should be...?

The fact that SMN books auto attacks hit more than RDM rapier still baffles me.



notthatitmattersatleast

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

100% valid, I share your complaints with regards to RDM weapons... not that a lot of the other Jobs (off the top of my head, WAR, DRK, DRG, for example) aren't also afflicted by this. Weapons that look fine from the side, but then you turn the camera and they're stupidly thick for whatever reason, to the point they look more like weird hammers than anything. The 3D models can be quite inconsistent in this... SAM has thankfully been quite good about that (even if I wish they'd give us more variety), but... because its weapons are more sensibly scaled they end up looking weirdly like toothpicks next to others (PLD swords, for example). It's... made picking weapon glams much more difficult than it probably should be...?

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Oh, I absolutely agree, Paladin weapons are also particularly egregious for this like you said; the only reason I didn't mention Warrior by name as well is because they also use some weapons that are hammers, which I think is pretty cool. It's easy to tell when it's meant to look like an axe, though. And again, I imagine even if you were to try to cut something relatively soft, it would be more inclined to crush it rather than slice it based on the width. Other than that I don't play DRK; but RDM weapons are incredibly noticeable to me because they're also thin, so if you widen a thin weapon ever so slightly you've basically just made a metal bar.

But almost none of the SAM weapons look like that, so they obviously know how to make a proper edge, but they just... don't. That's why I'm less likely to look at it like "its supposed to be a wand/staff" as the reason they look like that, because it's a pretty inexplicably widespread visual issue. That's why I like the (i think, i cant look now cus maint) Chromite Axe, which is HUGE, but also very thin, so it looks like a very sharp weapon.

And it's not that I'm acting like this about it because I take issue with the practicality of swinging whatever the weapon is, i'm just looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees it that it doesn't look practical or good to me when it's wide like that, so I feel confused as to why they decided to do that to so many of them in the first place and why it hasn't seemed to stop into 6.0 outside of rehashed models either. I can't even think of a reason why, like it wouldn't be more demanding on a PC to make a thinner edge IIRC. Maybe its an art style or something? but then they don't make the samurai weapons fat either; so why is that?

im basically jumping between two points that just dont make sense when you consider the other. i've played the game this long anyway; its just been my opinion that it doesnt look great and no one seems to talk about it lol

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Originally Posted by M1551NGN0

The fact that SMN books auto attacks hit more than RDM rapier still baffles me.
notthatitmattersatleast

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targetable enemies are illiterate

I do think Tsukuyomi's Moonlit Rapier looks quite convincing, despite the curved tip:
https://i.imgur.com/L6pa9Hv.png
https://i.imgur.com/MbQP3nZ.png

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

Oh, I absolutely agree, Paladin weapons are also particularly egregious for this like you said; the only reason I didn't mention Warrior by name as well is because they also use some weapons that are hammers, which I think is pretty cool. It's easy to tell when it's meant to look like an axe, though. And again, I imagine even if you were to try to cut something relatively soft, it would be more inclined to crush it rather than slice it based on the width. Other than that I don't play DRK; but RDM weapons are incredibly noticeable to me because they're also thin, so if you widen a thin weapon ever so slightly you've basically just made a metal bar.

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The added thickness makes me think of tabletop miniatures, except those actually need(ed?) it for durability reasons, whereas digital assets don't have any such limitations. I actually think PLD swords look reasonably sharp (for obvious fantasy weapons) in comparison to some of the other Jobs I've played, but it's just weird overall...

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

But almost none of the SAM weapons look like that, so they obviously know how to make a proper edge, but they just... don't. That's why I'm less likely to look at it like "its supposed to be a wand/staff" as the reason they look like that, because it's a pretty inexplicably widespread visual issue. That's why I like the (i think, i cant look now cus maint) Chromite Axe, which is HUGE, but also very thin, so it looks like a very sharp weapon.

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I've (unfortunately) noticed they sometimes get a bit too excited about edges on some SAM weapons, they have beveled backs as though they're sharp all around, which makes no sense and I can't unsee it...

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

And it's not that I'm acting like this about it because I take issue with the practicality of swinging whatever the weapon is, i'm just looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees it that it doesn't look practical or good to me when it's wide like that, so I feel confused as to why they decided to do that to so many of them in the first place and why it hasn't seemed to stop into 6.0 outside of rehashed models either. I can't even think of a reason why, like it wouldn't be more demanding on a PC to make a thinner edge IIRC. Maybe its an art style or something? but then they don't make the samurai weapons fat either; so why is that?

im basically jumping between two points that just dont make sense when you consider the other. i've played the game this long anyway; its just been my opinion that it doesnt look great and no one seems to talk about it lol

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No yeah I totally get where you're coming from! I'm actually glad someone else has noticed these weird inconsistencies...!

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I do think Tsukuyomi's Moonlit Rapier looks quite convincing, despite the curved tip:
https://i.imgur.com/L6pa9Hv.png
https://i.imgur.com/MbQP3nZ.png

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nice wol

no there is definitely some really nice looking ones there. i appreciate the variety too; my friends make fun of me for it lmao but i've also said for a while that i wish they'd add a longsword looking weapon to the SAM armory for a while to mix things up a little. they do it to PLD, they get a macuahuitl, they could probably (if they don't already) get a khopesh, they have odin's weapon; WARs have some hammers, RDMs have some curved saber looking weapons from time to time when they arent making philips head screwdrivers. DRG get an enormous variety of polearms

and im not saying the RDM weapons that are canes, wands, or look like staves are unilaterally bad either, i'd look at them the same way i look at weapons that break the norm if they werent the norm; or if the ones meant to look like rapiers looked like rapiers

im definitely not saying they all look bad, but most of them do; which is a shame, because i think alot of the less over the top ones (the ones that are lower level, or that don't glow) would still look good if they weren't so wide for no reason

Just collect all of the ultimate rapiers

They never look bad

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

Just collect all of the ultimate rapiers

They never look bad

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Thats kind of a stretchy request but I actually don't like how any of the ultimate weapons look and wouldnt invest time into them for the glamour as opposed to the experience of just clearing an ultimate. Not to bag on the achievment its just not my style tbh

Generally speaking though, just look at some of the foils, man. If you look at it from the front its a square. It doesnt need to look like an ultimate weapon to not be a screw driver. Im only dropping feedback like this for the future and for discussion; i have at least one or two rapiers i kind of like but most of them are really oddly shaped like that

You’re missing out, the TEA one is easily the best looking rapier in the game

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

You’re missing out, the TEA one is easily the best looking rapier in the game

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Im partial to blue glows, so if anything Id probably like the UWU one; I didnt like the gears on the TEA weapons. I use Aettir on my PLD and I dont think I like any other longsword quite as much tbh, even if its also a little fat

But for rapiers I bounce around alot, between murgleis, crystarium, talekeeper and theres another im forgetting but the common point between most of the ones I like is that their cross section is wide enough to technically be broadswords. At least they look sharp comparitively

I'd like to be able to opt between two RDM weapon carry styles: standard style (focus on right hip, rapier on left) and "staff style" where rapier and focus are in their combined form at one's back, reminding us of the job's ties to WHM and BLM.

I generally bounce between the Edenmourn Rapier and Brunello Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

I feel the need to ask, are the completely separate teams of people who work on the weapons in this game per class?

The reason I'm asking is because when I look at Samurai weapons, they almost all look very sharp, at least relative to a lot of the other weapons in this game, which have wedges wide enough to the point where they look like they'd crush a loaf of bread rather than cut it;

In particular, or the most egregious ones IMO are the rapiers that Red Mages use, because a very unfortunate number of them look like Philips-head screwdrivers. Like they don't appear to have a cutting edge (which rapiers typically have, despite their forte being stabbing) they just have like 4 edges; none of which are particularly, i dont know, sharp looking? its almost like most of them are metal 2x2x50 chunk that you hit people with

like really, just look at some of them from the front. if the tip looks more like [ ] then ()
don't you think thats kinda weird? even stylistically i just feel like it looks bad

so its almost like a ton of them are really long rectangular cuboids or even just flat out cylinders with a point; whats going on over there? would it really look so bad if they were a little thinner?

try to look past this as like an OCD thing or something and as a actually point that should be discussed because this is basically a AAA game; i just wanna know if anyone else has noticed this
and i'm totally aware that theyre half-staff, im just saying they are also half-sword, and i dont typically consider blunt chunks of metal swords

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I try not to zoom in on any weapons outside of glowie relics as they all look like poor resolution skins slapped on misshapen shapes. My cat tail is literally 4 2d images made into a cross shape to appear fluffy because they can't spare the polygons to make a detailed fluffy tail. Same goes for the regular cat tail which has sharp angles and looks more like a rats tail than a cats.

For the rapier I imagine it's because it cuts with magic in the first place, it's not a legit sword.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

I try not to zoom in on any weapons outside of glowie relics as they all look like poor resolution skins slapped on misshapen shapes. My cat tail is literally 4 2d images made into a cross shape to appear fluffy because they can't spare the polygons to make a detailed fluffy tail. Same goes for the regular cat tail which has sharp angles and looks more like a rats tail than a cats.

For the rapier I imagine it's because it cuts with magic in the first place, it's not a legit sword.

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i said this before earlier in the thread but tbh i think whoevers modeling the rapiers just in general isnt very good at it. like theyre not modeling it properly and they just ship it that way because nobody in japan complains about it or something, probably
making them thinner wouldnt really make it more hardware demanding, and i doubt its a deliberate choice because therye supposed to look like swords. also, if it wasnt meant to cut, why would it happen so much to paladin and warrior weapons as well? it seems to be pretty standard for everything except for samurai, and technically/canonically speaking, every single one of them uses aether lol. ive never quite looked at red mage as weilding a magic lightsaber

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Originally Posted by M1551NGN0

I generally bounce between the Edenmourn Rapier and Brunello Eureka.

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Outside of the ultimate weapons I think the edenmourne weapon as well as the 1st or second stage of the bozja relic gear (the gold one!) are some of the best looking rapiers available

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

Outside of the ultimate weapons I think the edenmourne weapon as well as the 1st or second stage of the bozja relic gear (the gold one!) are some of the best looking rapiers available

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Completely agree!

The weapon you refer to, Talekeeper Recollection, is stunning in my opinion:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...074324_994.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...003856_121.png

Red Mage is probably one of the only Job whose relic weapons stand out for generally having both better designs and models than their other options, in my opinion... but then again I tend to prefer more grounded, "realistic" weapons, so that's definitely a factor