So what's up with the culture of "one person left therefore all must leave" in PF?

So, I am not sure if this is an Aether thing but... Damn, progging savage on PF is a nightmare. Everyone's steadily learning, slowly getting better, then someone DCs or you know, Billy quits because he has to take a piece of aluminum off his Microwave and then boom, everyone just leaves and you are back to looking for a new group with new people that have no clue to what's happening and then you have to wait/help everyone to learn again for the same thing to happen and the cycle continues...

Like damn guys, stick around, I know the fights aren't the most fun when you aren't talking to people on Discord, I usually don't have fun progging with randoms either but...

Been trying to clear P2S on Pratice groups for almost a month now, it's super demoralizing.

Sometimes it's that the group was underperforming in some way, but no one else wanted to confront the problematic person or people, nor did they want to be the first to leave.

Sometimes it's that people are out of time, or need to get food, or some such and someone leaving is just a reminder of "Oh yeah I should go do those things."

And... sometimes the group can be performing strongly, and wasn't going for long at all before someone leaves and it still happens. That one still baffles me.

often times a lot of people want to leave but fear the queue cooldown so don't. Being the one that gets the punishment really is the only thing keeping people in line after all
As soon as the person that is so fed up they don't care at all leaves they are given the opening to do so as well
then if the party dwindles enough other people that were fine are now shaky that so many spots need to be filled and leave as well

it's not the most complicated thing really

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nihility

often times a lot of people want to leave but fear the queue cooldown so don't. Being the one that gets the punishment really is the only thing keeping people in line after all
As soon as the person that is so fed up they don't care at all leaves they are given the opening to do so as well
then if the party dwindles enough other people that were fine are now shaky that so many spots need to be filled and leave as well

it's not the most complicated thing really

---

I get it that's is not complicated, what I don't understand why it seems to be such a regular occurrence, you don't have to just alt f4, you can say that you have to do something and therefore gotta leave, people aren't going to find your IRL and make you disappear for doing so, what baffles is me that people just follow suit after someone leaves and then you sometimes meet half of the people you were doing stuff with on a new group and you just gotta ask yourself "Why didn't you just stuck around the group that was 90% filled with people doing stuff right?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Sometimes it's that the group was underperforming in some way, but no one else wanted to confront the problematic person or people, nor did they want to be the first to leave.

Sometimes it's that people are out of time, or need to get food, or some such and someone leaving is just a reminder of "Oh yeah I should go do those things."

And... sometimes the group can be performing strongly, and wasn't going for long at all before someone leaves and it still happens. That one still baffles me.

---

That's the thing though, I don't often see a group that has a a handful of people REALLY struggling with mechanics, most are fine and you see them improving with each pull. Like, my best bet is that people just lose the hype after the first instance is closed and just want to leave but then I wonder why people joined if they didn't want to see it through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Sometimes it's that the group was underperforming in some way, but no one else wanted to confront the problematic person or people, nor did they want to be the first to leave.

Sometimes it's that people are out of time, or need to get food, or some such and someone leaving is just a reminder of "Oh yeah I should go do those things."

And... sometimes the group can be performing strongly, and wasn't going for long at all before someone leaves and it still happens. That one still baffles me.

---

More along the lines of..

Your not allowed to confront the problematic person because that is seen as a form of harassment in this game.

So stupid.

Different factors: Herd mentality, people trying to be polite, avoiding confrontation, etc. People don't want to be the first to leave, and that's why often times when they are, they come up with an excuse to justify it.

It's because the people who left already wanted to leave but they didn't want to be the ones to leave first.

Easy. Problem-solving is evil wicked filthy heretical PARSING and such toxicity isn't allowed in this game.

The passive-aggressive silent treatment, blacklists, indignant flouncing out of duties, that makes for a stable, healthy community.

Just set a clear for 1, any chest/page run/bring your alt jobs to incite bored veterans to join and help you get your clear. Then you'll be out of this nightmare and ready for the next reclear evening.

That happens in Primal all the time. I think it deals with insecurity as well. Like sometimes people leave so that they feel like they are the ones rejecting instead of being the rejected one? I don't know if that makes sense. This is in addition to the stuff mentioned above, people will absolutely leave if they know someone is underperforming and there is no hope. It only takes one to sink the ship. Not a lot of people have the patience and compassion to stick it out with a mediocre group.

On the other hand though I've been part of plenty of PFs that will even stick for two lockouts if the prog is great and theres a good chance of clearing. I've seen this more often earlier in the tier though, and its always when the group is full of experienced raiders and so everyone knows theyre getting prog done.

I prefer the silent leaving to parties devolving into insults though, which they sometimes do. The moment toxicity starts the group is dead anyways. Morale plunges and a rage quit is about 5 seconds away.

The problem with party finder is that when your party has just about got a phase down, they are getting tired and leave. The next party you start from the beginning. Even if you say you are starting from a certain phase, they don't read the description so it is fresh prog. I've had this in previous tiers going back to Heavensward.

The problem with a static is you might get trapped with someone who isn't very good, you can't use party finder until all raid days are done for that week, they take it in turns to not be able to make it so you never actually raid together as a full static without substitutes and most of them only do raid progression for 2 hours 1-2 days a week which is casual compared to how often you can do it in PF.

There is no solution to the problem. Each have their downsides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hysorn

"Why didn't you just stuck around the group that was 90% filled with people doing stuff right?"

---

Sometimes people are just foolish and think the grass is greener in a different PF.

For me, for a learning party it’s mostly by the time someone does leave, we tried a few times and I feel like I’ve had enough for now and will try again later. I’m satisfied after like 30ish min trying, then happy to try again another day.

I mean, the goal was to learn, not necessarily clear.

And to be fair, I’m not really into endgame stuff anyway, so usually this is with a static group of friends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

And... sometimes the group can be performing strongly, and wasn't going for long at all before someone leaves and it still happens. That one still baffles me.

---

Sometimes it's just trying to be decent about it and not waste peoples time..

If you still have 30-45 minutes of playtime before you need to do stuff and someone drops the party your in. Then it seems kinda pointless to spend maybe 10 of those minutes waiting for someone to fill the gap. Only to have time for one more attempt yourself before you have to go..

So, I hope you've had enough sugarcoating and false reassurance from the previous posts. Because I'm about to slam you with some harsh reality.

The reason why others often leave your party is... Yourself. There is indeed a culture of leaving the party at the earliest opportunity without saying anything instead of addressing the underperforming player if you aren't satisfied. Whether you prefer this or not, this is the way many will act. Now, people often leave your party and there is a common element between all of them - you. A cursory glance at the couple of P1S kills you have tells me that you are indeed the underperforming player. You might do mechanics right but it is obvious you struggle pressing buttons while doing so.

If you are looking for genuine advice, start practicing the very basics - GCD uptime. Maybe even in less demanding content like Aglaia. Doing both mechanics and a somewhat competent rotation at the same time is the fundamental you are missing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

So, I hope you've had enough sugarcoating and false reassurance from the previous posts. Because I'm about to slam you with some harsh reality.

The reason why others often leave your party is... Yourself. There is indeed a culture of leaving the party at the earliest opportunity without saying anything instead of addressing the underperforming player if you aren't satisfied. Whether you prefer this or not, this is the way many will act. Now, people often leave your party and there is a common element between all of them - you. A cursory glance at the couple of P1S kills you have tells me that you are indeed the underperforming player. You might do mechanics right but it is obvious you struggle pressing buttons while doing so.

If you are looking for genuine advice, start practicing the very basics - GCD uptime. Maybe even in less demanding content like Aglaia. Doing both mechanics and a somewhat competent rotation at the same time is the fundamental you are missing.

---

OOF and someone looked at their DPS on FFLogs without asking. Sheesh. What a jack a**.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Easy. Problem-solving is evil wicked filthy heretical PARSING and such toxicity isn't allowed in this game.

The passive-aggressive silent treatment, blacklists, indignant flouncing out of duties, that makes for a stable, healthy community.

---

Why we don't have an NA and EU public blacklist is beyond me. JP does it, so clearly it is the best solution.

Also, we can't talk about the problem so it is better to just silently leave, make a mental note to never invite particular people, and reform or do this another time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

OOF and someone looked at their DPS on FFLogs without asking. Sheesh. What a jack a**.

---

Yep. It's better to leave him confused why people leave and ignorant. Such GCBTW, much not-WOW.

If I'm in a Duty Complete group, I expect the duty to get completed. If I'm in a P4s group and people are sandbagging Pinax or we get through most of the fight with no deaths but the boss is at like 65% after towers then its clear that members in the group are not playing where they need to be. My rule tends to be give it 3 pulls and if similar patterns are occuring, then hop ship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

Yep. It's better to leave him confused why people leave and ignorant. Such GCBTW, much not-WOW.

---

But I heard that the sand can be really comforting when you have your head buried in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

Yep. It's better to leave him confused why people leave and ignorant. Such GCBTW, much not-WOW.

---

First they didn’t ask. Secondly you made it sound like a fact it’s them and no other option. Third you are so passive agressive I could taste it. I’ve had players leave w/o saying a thing in duties we were winning or losing in.

Granted the way players are report happy over the slightest word when chatting is why I think no one says anything. Telling a tank to use their stance can be seen as “harassment” and reported though it’s a basic mechanic.

Maybe learn to give your thoughts better and not rudely. Not what you say but how you say it. Perhaps the OP does have an issue moving their fingers? Perhaps they are colorblind and miss the cues on the ground. Or like my husband who has ADHD, the OP might have issues focusing.

Perhaps you could look into Stone, Sea, Sky to improve? Maybe find or create a static of newbies looking to try such fights OP?

BTW this has nothing to do with “GCBTW”. Just realizing there is a human on the other side of the screen. Not a robot

I get bored easily and I basically stay in the group to be polite until someone else leaves. That's when I leave too because you have to replace people anyways.

Because most of the time they did want to leave, but they didn't want to be the first one to go.
Sometimes it's incredibly obvious that a group will not get the clear or make any progress, such as when there are 1 or 2 people constantly making mistakes on specific mechanics which end up wiping the group.
Some people fear confrontation, so they are hesitant to call them out, so they just wait until someone leaves first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

So, I hope you've had enough sugarcoating and false reassurance from the previous posts. Because I'm about to slam you with some harsh reality.

The reason why others often leave your party is... Yourself. There is indeed a culture of leaving the party at the earliest opportunity without saying anything instead of addressing the underperforming player if you aren't satisfied. Whether you prefer this or not, this is the way many will act. Now, people often leave your party and there is a common element between all of them - you. A cursory glance at the couple of P1S kills you have tells me that you are indeed the underperforming player. You might do mechanics right but it is obvious you struggle pressing buttons while doing so.

If you are looking for genuine advice, start practicing the very basics - GCD uptime. Maybe even in less demanding content like Aglaia. Doing both mechanics and a somewhat competent rotation at the same time is the fundamental you are missing.

---

Dayum, keyboard warrior got worked up.

Now funny thing is, I have two P1S clears, first one I did blind as a Ninja, second one I did with a group of friends playing WAR with a controller because of a wrist injury while super pissed off because I couldn't build the controller muscle memory, so yes, I played terribly on both. P2S however, ain't the case, aside from my first blind run while all my friends knew all the mechanics and had their own tactics, been playing normally and in most PF groups I am one of the few who knows the whole fight. While I appreciate your extremely superficial analyze based on a handful of data, it's extremely wrong on how I play overall. Am I a great player that aspires to run ultimates 16h a day? No. But I am decent enough to clear most content despite having to deal with 250ms that makes snapshotting rather unforgiving.

I'll admit sometimes I think people bounce too early; in my experience, PF prog often takes a pull or two for the group to gel; people have been in this tower or had this spread spot in their previous two PF groups and so they head there habitually, etc. If you're in a P4S group that's progging something in phase 2 and you bounce when people die to Pinax on the first pull, that's maybe a little excessive of a reaction. If you're six or seven pulls in, though, I admit I start to feel a little frustrated if the group isn't getting anywhere near the mechanic that is, in theory, being practiced/progged.

Still, I'll stick around longer than many; I've seen groups gel when one or two leave and then get replaced, and folks go back in. I had a P4S group some while back that was not getting anywhere near phase 1 enrage when it was supposed to be an Act III cleanup group. One person threw shade and bounced, another followed them... we waited, got two more, and the group actually made it to Curtain Call before someone had to leave due to RL.

But if you lose half of the group, and then I look at PF and there's another group waiting on just a healer to pop back in? Yeah, in those cases I may bounce as well and shift groups, in order to not have to wait around another half an hour to get four more people before we can go back in.

I can only speak for my own reasoning. If I join a farm party that's struggling then I will probably just leave and likely not be the only one. If things are going great however I often times dont want to disrupt that so I stay for a few more runs than I would have otherwise. I do that to not kick the party back to recruiting new people but when someone else leaves then reason is no longer there so I just leave aswell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Your not allowed to confront the problematic person because that is seen as a form of harassment in this game.

So stupid.

---

You are allowed to tell the problematic person how to fix their problems so that they are no longer the problematic person. You're just not allowed to be a jerk while you do it.

From my pretty limited PF experiences, I think it’s really random outside those times where the weak links of the 8 players were painfully obvious.

Personally I see it’s reasonable enough to expect at least 3 pulls at minimum. In real life do happens, after all.

PFs do be like that sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

You are allowed to tell the problematic person how to fix their problems so that they are no longer the problematic person. You're just not allowed to be a jerk while you do it.

---

Expecting other people waste their limited gaming time teaching in a content where preparation is expected is very toxic attitude.

Its not like the knowledge about the game is hidden away, fight guides and job fundamentals can be easily found on Youtube and all endgame rotations and gearing in The Balance discord server.

IDK. I don't usually PF and when I do I prefer to have a friend with me. While I'm never the first one to suggest leaving a broke party... I feel the itch to sometimes. Like when I see a co-healer SGE spamming Prognosis. Or a tank at P1S bringing True Flare to the group way too many times despite explanations between pulls. There was also the time where a guy asked to take a break just so he could do some fishing (???) which made me silently cranky.

I do disperse when more than 2 people leave. I feel like I waited adequately when I first joined for the group to come together, don't feel like waiting again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hysorn

I get it that's is not complicated, what I don't understand why it seems to be such a regular occurrence, you don't have to just alt f4, you can say that you have to do something and therefore gotta leave, people aren't going to find your IRL and make you disappear for doing so, what baffles is me that people just follow suit after someone leaves and then you sometimes meet half of the people you were doing stuff with on a new group and you just gotta ask yourself "Why didn't you just stuck around the group that was 90% filled with people doing stuff right?"

---

You're missing the point. The run is going so bad people want to leave. Why do you want people to stick if things are going that horrible? Just move along.

Welcome to the content that gets all the attention from the media due to twitch and such, but in reality very few people participate in it due to the commitment needed to complete it. PF is harder than it should be since it also requires people who participate to know when they are past a phase or not, and also understand at the same time who is at fault for failing a mechanic while still learning mechanics. I don't even know how the heck PF parties exist doing savage content for some tiers, but they keep persisting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

So, I hope you've had enough sugarcoating and false reassurance from the previous posts. Because I'm about to slam you with some harsh reality.

The reason why others often leave your party is... Yourself. There is indeed a culture of leaving the party at the earliest opportunity without saying anything instead of addressing the underperforming player if you aren't satisfied. Whether you prefer this or not, this is the way many will act. Now, people often leave your party and there is a common element between all of them - you. A cursory glance at the couple of P1S kills you have tells me that you are indeed the underperforming player. You might do mechanics right but it is obvious you struggle pressing buttons while doing so.

If you are looking for genuine advice, start practicing the very basics - GCD uptime. Maybe even in less demanding content like Aglaia. Doing both mechanics and a somewhat competent rotation at the same time is the fundamental you are missing.

---

It really does bring out the worst in us. ME

Get out damaged by someone who died three times in one pull.

Edit: I'm sorry.