Do the Japanese community use the Translator at all?

I've come to learn that whenever I see a shout in Uldah, whoever is using [Looking for Members] [Please invite me], is always a member of the English speaking community.
I very rarely see the Japanese using the translator.

I'm curious to those that speak both languages, is it because the translator does not translate very nicely into Japanese? Like when I use [Experience Points] [You can have this], does it really translate well? Or is it incomprehensible what we're trying to say?

My point of using the translator when shouting is so that the Japanese can understand, and thus, it reaches a greater audience. But they don't seem to think the same. I start to feel like when they don't use translator, that we're being intentionally excluded from what they're advertising.
Thoughts?

very little would use it unless desparate 4 member to do content.

It's language barrier. Do they understand what you are trying to say? yes.

Just because they can understand what you want to do doesn't mean they are going to want to do it with you. When it comes to actually doing the content, an auto translator isn't going to help very much. It's hard to explain with an auto translator "you need to stand on this little crack in the ground and don't cast any spells or skills until ifrit uses his skills."

I've been invited to JP groups because I shouted using the translator, so i'd say it works just fine.

JP ONRY . That's why.
Most of them understand but they don't bother party with NA players.
kinda like bad experience from pick up group that cause a trauma from FFXI back then

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I've been invited to JP groups because I shouted using the translator, so i'd say it works just fine.

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same

and its not like english players dont descriminate too...... this is nothing new

some players just want to be able to talk without a language barier, you really cant fault them for it

Its because they will be communicating in Japanese in the party, if you cannot understand a shout for something you will not unterstand what they are going to do, take Garuda, you can't say "Stand behind this rock and check where she moves for minstral shreak, then move round the rock so its blocks her attack." in auto translate. Because of this the Japanese don't invite many none Japanese speakers because they will need to know what to do, and I have been in PUGs where people do not know what they are doing.

Its just the language barrier nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Its because they will be communicating in Japanese in the party, if you cannot understand a shout for something you will not unterstand what they are going to do, take Garuda, you can't say "Stand behind this rock and check where she moves for minstral shreak, then move round the rock so its blocks her attack." in auto translate. Because of this the Japanese don't invite many none Japanese speakers because they will need to know what to do, and I have been in PUGs where people do not know what they are doing.

Its just the language barrier nothing else.

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I guess for Garuda or Ifrit fights or anything complicated it is understandable. But experience points you can mostly get away with it. I'm not blaming them for not wanting to party with English speaking players. I was just wondering whether there's another reason (such as translator not translating well, etc). And also it's very curious that NA/EU players keep using the translator when we ask for invites for Garuda or Ifrit, just in case that lone JP out there would give it a shot.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

I guess for Garuda or Ifrit fights or anything complicated it is understandable. But experience points you can mostly get away with it. I'm not blaming them for not wanting to party with English speaking players. I was just wondering whether there's another reason (such as translator not translating well, etc). And also it's very curious that NA/EU players keep using the translator when we ask for invites for Garuda or Ifrit, just in case that lone JP out there would give it a shot.

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For exp parties, if a JP shouts using the auto translate, they could get all english speakers, and therefore cannot communicate well, I for one like small talk in parties, if this lone JP who started wants to socialise then the logical thing to do is shout in Japanese, so they can socialise, small talk does not work well in auto translate, believe me i have tried.

This is why I hope the autotranslate function in 2.0 is greatly expanded upon with more words and phrases.

I've been invited to and involved in quite a few JP parties for events despite us not being able to communicate. It can be a challenge if the group uses a completely different strategy for something than the one you are used to with no prior explanation. I remember one darkhold run where they just Leroy Jenkinsed everything in the batraal room. I was like WTF?! But it was tremendous fun and went really well. Different approaches to playing the game, different tactics and communication difficulties will always stand in the way of complete integration of the two communities but when you do get a chance to play with a JP party it can be a real eye opener. Not neccessarily better or worse, but different. I can't recommend it enough.

You guys can barely write English and you want to communicate with the Japanese? Just read the first few posts in this thread...

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Originally Posted by Mirana

JP ONRY . That's why.
Most of them understand but they don't bother party with NA players.
kinda like bad experience from pick up group that cause a trauma from FFXI back then

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Oh please. For the record no, not every JP understands english. A lot understand basic yes but that's where it ends for most, get their requirement then drop the language.

Kinda like americans who had to take spanish and never bothered to further it. The difference is, Americans tend to use auto translate to be lazy in their shouts, not to recruit other languages...you can say "but I do!" but I guarantee most use it to be lazy, this is where the problem lie and why people are confused about the JP not using it and no, it's not because of 'JP only'.

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Originally Posted by Mirana

JP ONRY . That's why.
Most of them understand but they don't bother party with NA players.
kinda like bad experience from pick up group that cause a trauma from FFXI back then

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trauma from FFXI? NA pickup is just as bad in FFXIV.

I always get into JP party very often and know most of them.

well I don't know about exp-party because it has been long that I never do any. But for end-game party, they intentionally speak JP so that they can screen out those who has no basic JP reading skill.

But lazy is also part of the problem too. They tell me once before that Auto-translate only work when they type JP word in polite and full word. But most people doesn't talk that much polite, and it is faster to type using shorter word.

Example: People rather says : よろしく　　　instead of よろしくお願いします　

So in English, it is easier to just type a little bit and then auto-word.
But in Japan, it is easier to just type it shorten than auto-word.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Oh please. For the record no, not every JP understands english. A lot understand basic yes but that's where it ends for most, get their requirement then drop the language.

Kinda like americans who had to take spanish and never bothered to further it. The difference is, Americans tend to use auto translate to be lazy in their shouts, not to recruit other languages...you can say "but I do!" but I guarantee most use it to be lazy, this is where the problem lie and why people are confused about the JP not using it and no, it's not because of 'JP only'.

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You have a point here actually. It is faster to start a sentence, and just press tab, and then you don't have to tailorize your shouts, and no need to be creative. Instead of "Excuse me, would anyone level 40 and above like to join and journey with us to Natalan for experience points?" , I can use "[Experience Points] [Natalan] [Looking for Members] 40+". I bet JP tailorize their message.

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Originally Posted by Alise

I always get into JP party very often and know most of them.

well I don't know about exp-party because it has been long that I never do any. But for end-game party, they intentionally speak JP so that they can screen out those who has no basic JP reading skill.

But lazy is also part of the problem too. They tell me once before that Auto-translate only work when they type JP word in polite and full word. But most people doesn't talk that much polite, and it is faster to type using shorter word.

Example: People rather says : よろしく　　　instead of よろしくお願いします　

So in English, it is easier to just type a little bit and then auto-word.
But in Japan, it is easier to just type it shorten than auto-word.

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Very interesting. But can't they type the first character and press tab? Like type よ and press tab to see the sentence come out? For example I type "Loo" Tab, and "Looking for Party" comes up.

It's differences like these that I don't know, that makes a difference on why they don't use it.

When they(or me when typing JP) type the first character and pres tab. it will come out as Kanji selection instead. (it is JP keyboard by default) and because their language has too many possible word that start the same, so auto-translator become more annoying than useful.

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Originally Posted by Alise

When they(or me when typing JP) type the first character and pres tab. it will come out as Kanji selection instead. (it is JP keyboard by default) and because their language has too many possible word that start the same, so auto-translator become more annoying than useful.

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Ah I understand, I'm learning Chinese and they have root words for everything, so a lot starts with the same root character, like 女 root for female.

If you are truly concerned it isn't that hard to figure out what they are shouting in JP. Additionally, some game terms, locations and actions are completely different names in other languages. So if you want to communicate with anyone who speaks another language, you have to at least try and....well, communicate. This means taking the time to learn the correct words for what you want to say and also be able to attempt to learn what the responses are.

Alise, Zheru and even Chard covered most of the actual reasons there is this barrier. It exists not just between NA and JP, but all languages. However, I have some friends who are JP. Not all of them can write/read English. A couple not at all. But we are still friends. We both just take the time to talk and to learn what to say to each other. For this we use anything available. Online things, bilingual friends, etc. These friends, I have done all fights with. It isn't an issue of communication. It is an issue of attitude. If you make the effort to respect someone, chances are really good they will respect you back.

The only two specific things I think have been left out of this discussion is that you need to also consider the fact that the things you feel when trying to approach and speak to a person of another language on the game, they feel also. It is overwhelming for some people to risk being ridiculed or rejected merely upon a misunderstanding. In short, some don't play with other language speakers because of their comfort level.

Second, this whole thing that the JP are JP Only is not only a bunch of junk, but it is also worth mentioning that as hard as you think they are on NA players, they are equally hard on their fellow JP. There are websites that list people they tell each other not to play with (other JP Players). There is a very large social component that you do not consider. Which, given the general idea of this thread, perhaps you should try to consider in the future.

Some of them use it. Heck, some of them even use english when recruiting, because they're having a hard time getting enough people.

Overall I think it's just the language barrier and the general desire to be with people who you can communicate with easily.


But one other minor aspect that may influence Auto-translated shouts could be their lack of politeness.

I see many Japanese shouts in Ul'dah that are very polite... often starting with a apology for shouting in the first place.
Japanese speech is full of "ritual phrases" that you expect people to say in certain situations. Not using these phrases can be a little surprising, and sometimes potentially insulting... especially with strangers.

Auto-translate can get a basic message across, but it's much more direct and cannot convey any of the typically expected politeness in Japanese speech.

I do see Japanese players shouting with the Auto-translate function, so there are those who use it. But non-translated shouts are probably more common.

From my experience its always JP Onry! in FFXI. I remember countless times in FFXI even when I told them I could speak Japanese they still didnt want me because i wasn't native JP. In FFXI it was very segregated (In my experience.). You had to not only be able to speak Japanese but you HAD to be Japanese to. In FFXIV I think the Japanese community has really lightened up. I dont really ever see JP ppl using the auto translate, but me and lots of my ls mates have gotten into many jp partys when they use it.

I don't use it...I just type in plain english hehe I never see them using it either...

Funny thing is most tells I get (when shouting in english) is from JP people asking to join up!

English players use the auto-translate a lot for auto completion. There is less need for this when typing in Japanese thanks to the IME. But the real problem with the auto translator is that it's hard to find the terms you wish to use. When I've been invited to a Japanese group, usually the terms for the destination (i.e. Camps) aren't in the dictionary.

The fact is the auto translator is a poor way to communicate. Japanese players would very much like to communicate with us, but the auto translator is too much a hassle. It may not seem like it when randomly shouting but once your party is formed you'll quickly see that it's just very awkward. In order for something like the auto translate to truly perform it's function it needs a complete overhaul. Just adding terms is not going to be enough. It needs to be intelligent enough to take context into account, for example.

I end up invited more to Japanese parties then english speaking. IT how you present yourself.

Many Japanese speak some english. THe translator works. Even tho it is very limited.

Google Translate works even better, I have away to extract japanese text into it and it speaks it back in english.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

I end up invited more to Japanese parties then english speaking. IT how you present yourself.

Many Japanese speak some english. THe translator works. Even tho it is very limited.

Google Translate works even better, I have away to extract japanese text into it and it speaks it back in english.

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(Thats interesting)

If anything, I'd say the japanese are far more willing to play with others in this game than they were in FFXI.

Because JP Onry, and because american penis so big! :D
J/K XD Obvious reasons are obvious - comunication is importaint when it comes to end-game content...