Help to those wasting time trying to love changes they didn't want

I spent a lot of time trying to like monk and have finally found a solution.

Many monk mains ( I mean mains not ''I run a roulette every other week'' ) are probably wondering.... I haven't made a single mistake on rotation in like 4 or 5 trials / dungeons. I'm... bored. Why?

New beast gauge is a static rotation recorder.

Monk prior to this ran a static rotation with fast speed, off the gcds AND positional.

Monk now runs a static rotation with fast speed and off the gcds. People who don't believe me try putting your beast gauge off in the corner using hud layout. Now run your STATIC rotation double phoenix opener. Yep, class is identical to pre endwalker except no positional.

The people on the forums acting like all these classes getting easier and easier to play and even more importantly becoming more and more like each other with less identity really need to think about the next expansion. There is a point where even you will become bored with your favorite class and you're next.

The summoner is particularly unfortunate. Maybe the bard is worse.

I found enjoyment playing on controller to make things a bit more busy and trying other classes like red mage and dragoon.

Class design is like the only point of contention for most on this expansion so maybe we could just enjoy the great music and story for a while longer but hey... express yourself. Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinno

I spent a lot of time trying to like monk… the summoner is particularly unfortunate. Maybe the bard is worse.

---

My favorite three jobs this expansion are the Monk, Summoner, and Bard, lol. I like things simple in my old age!!

Monk is bland.

I wanted to quit it but I adore it’s aesthetic too much to put it down, I’ll admit. My glams and main is somewhat centered around the job at this point.

I’m deriving a small amount of enjoyment from re-learning it and trying it in extreme content but -

It’s just kinda boring now with a simplified play style.

At least the casuals are enjoying it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awarewolf

My favorite three jobs this expansion are the Monk, Summoner, and Bard, lol. I like things simple in my old age!!

---

I personally wouldnt say bard got much easier, you still snapshot your dots and tbh it feels busier than before. just less clunky
Though this is always subjective. i find monk hard to play personally because im not a melee player

Actually, BRD is better.

Haven't had an issue with either Bard or Summoner so far. Definitely not "boring", so I suspect OP has a greatly different idea about boredom.

SMN took some time getting used to the new rotations, but it isn't like it was ever more than 'hit the pretty proc'd icon' for more damage before. Akh-Morn is a wonder to behold against same-level foes.

BRD is a bit more 'hit the pretty proc'd icon', but now ... songs! They buff the Bard as well as the rest of the party. O frabjous day! < and there was much chortling >

Getting bored with a class just, well, it happens. That's why leveling more than one job via MSQ and side-quest works so well. At least we don't have to level each job on a separate character -- just remembering leveling every single WoW job (both Alliance and Horde side) to level 110 on different characters was a lesson in boredom.

It’s never about the mains, it’s always about catering to the lowest common denominator. People that want the jobs to play itself, people that don’t want to learn people that don’t even like the job based on very shallow statistics.

This is a scourge of a mindsey

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinno

Monk prior to this ran a static rotation with fast speed, off the gcds AND positional.

Monk now runs a static rotation with fast speed and no off the gcds. People who don't believe me try putting your beast gauge off in the corner using hud layout. Now run your STATIC rotation double phoenix opener. Yep, class is identical to pre endwalker except no positional.

---

Allow me to fix this for you (change marked in bold)

Monk's OGCD moves (shoulder tackle, elixir field, tornado kick) were moved into the blitz mechanic which operates entirely on the global cooldown. The Forbidden Chakra is still an off global cooldown.. and I guess if you want to just count the utility skills and buffs? (Brotherhood, Riddle of Fire, Riddle of Wind) but that's kind of like saying it's fine if they decide to remove shoha, shinten, jump, spineshatter dive, dragonfire dive, stardiver, nastrond, geriskogl, mug, bunshin, bhavakara, and all the others I'm forgetting, put them behind a new gate to access them, and then place their execution entirely on the global cooldown and then say the job is the same.

The fact is the job was gutted out in Shadowbringers under the promise that this would let them expand on the job further this expansion. But rather than an expansion to the identity of the job, we got a hybrid copy of dance+ninjutsu and then had the job gutted out even further with the removal of positional requirements and the majority of our off global cooldown attacks.

The problem for many of us who have been maining the job through its ups and downs (I started to main it in Heavensward after leveling it up for the mantra cross class ability) is that the job just feels hollowed out now. The job was an incredibly active one before, and a lot of that activity has been taken away to the point that for those of us who enjoyed it for that always pushing something always doing something action, there's just not much left to it any more.

I will not speak on monk seeing as how I have not touched the class besides the obligatory levelling it to 15 back in the ARR days to unlock Dragoon, but I will say that Summoner right now is in the best state it's ever been in and Bard feels fantastic to play now that the dot procs for the songs are gone. Remember, for every 1 person who sits here complaining on the forums there are at least 100 regular players who are enjoying the new job changes for these jobs and while each job could be improved in some way or other, we do not need to return to mechanics that failed badly.

Good that I realized it fast enough and dropped monk right after the msq in endwalker lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

Haven't had an issue with either Bard or Summoner so far. Definitely not "boring", so I suspect OP has a greatly different idea about boredom.

SMN took some time getting used to the new rotations, but it isn't like it was ever more than 'hit the pretty proc'd icon' for more damage before. Akh-Morn is a wonder to behold against same-level foes.

BRD is a bit more 'hit the pretty proc'd icon', but now ... songs! They buff the Bard as well as the rest of the party. O frabjous day! < and there was much chortling >

Getting bored with a class just, well, it happens. That's why leveling more than one job via MSQ and side-quest works so well. At least we don't have to level each job on a separate character -- just remembering leveling every single WoW job (both Alliance and Horde side) to level 110 on different characters was a lesson in boredom.

---

I am a summoner main myself and ran the two extreme trials for mount farming with summoner only... (with a few exception of scholar on the first trial). And oh boi does it get boring to spam summoner rotation... and our dmg is so poor i feel bad for my team... but its fine cause at least i know the mechanics :D

With summoner you basically click the same 2 button on trials all the time, besides the times when you activate your summones and put on your added dmg or shield abilities...

As much as I hate the removal of positionals and so many ogcds on MNK.
The balance issues atm is my greatest concern.

It's not that I don't think they'll solve it, it's just that it feels trash that more low effort Jobs can pull huge numbers even with mistakes than other Jobs that are currently too low.
I don't think it should be like this at launch either it just feels terrible always knowing that you could just play the fotm easy mode and pull significantly bigger numbers.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinno

Monk now runs a static rotation with fast speed and off the gcds. People who don't believe me try putting your beast gauge off in the corner using hud layout. Now run your STATIC rotation double phoenix opener. Yep, class is identical to pre endwalker except no positional.

---

Btw this isn't true at all lol...
What you're saying here is just ridiculous.

As an old SMN main, can agree, I'm still crying on the inside. I did like MNK in ShB, haven't spent enough time with new MNK to really say how I feel about it though.

I really hate that BRD can be called simple now... it wasn't supposed to be like this... I'm trying really hard to appreciate the support we give now and our """consistency""" but man it feels like shit compared to the rapid fire procs of yesterpatch.

Personally playing NIN because SMN's identity got trashed by people who do not and will never get why it sucks. Ninja is not much better. Raijus need a major tune-up to be made friendly to new and old players alike. I thought Ifrit's forced dash was bad, but two back to back is SO much worse it's not even funny.

I'd still rather play NIN over SMN right now because Frustrating > Boring and Mechanics that respect Job Identity > Mechanics that limit Job identity. Raiju is literally my only complaint with NIN, but it still fits the job (with the right tweaks). Whereas with SMN it's everything mechanically wrong with the prior iterations put into a rework that utterly abandons what little DID work.

I also agree Bard and Monk suck now. The Repertoire change managed to make Bard even more boring while Monk still hasn't found its cohesion yet. PB is bizarre yet also bland. I would literally rather have the old versions of both back.

I think the only DPS that I'd even want to play right now that wasn't harmed in some manner by the changes was BLM. Which says a lot about Endwalker's shift in direction.

I got tired of trying to accept the direction they have been taking NIN, and jumped all into MNK after experimenting with it in ShB. I'm actually glad to see positionals reduced and it feels good to be using a fast melee again. I just couldn't accept raiju and spending more of my time casting then stabbing. It's taken a while to 'get' the new MNK rotation though, and I'm still not quite there yet.

And this is probably the lesson - not enjoying the changes? Try something else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ash_

I got tired of trying to accept the direction they have been taking NIN, and jumped all into MNK after experimenting with it in ShB. I'm actually glad to see positionals reduced and it feels good to be using a fast melee again. I just couldn't accept raiju and spending more of my time casting then stabbing. It's taken a while to 'get' the new MNK rotation though, and I'm still not quite there yet.

And this is probably the lesson - not enjoying the changes? Try something else.

---

Thing is that is basically looking the other way in front of glaring issues until you reach the point where theres no job that is fun to you. I would prefer to not reach that level and theres more than a few jobs already that they are on a really bad state and dont mean numbers only.

SE really needs to step in and go to the basics: Make the game fun and diverse instead of offering X number of flavours of the same thing and call it a day

Lately the jobs are becoming more and more similar, which is good for those who like that exact type of gameplay, but that sucks for anyone else, plus even those who now like it will get bored eventually of it and they will have nothing different to try

For example considering that seems that Ninja and Monk player numbers are abysmal they should pay atention to them, moreso when Monk just had a rework and seemingly has floped hard

Played dark knight in heavensward just to watch it get gutted in sb. Played monk in sb to watch it get gutted in shb. Played smn in shb until 5.4 monk changes and went back to monk (granted I played very little of shb because of the state monk was in). Watched both smn and monk get gutted in EW.

I refuse to level monk after these changes because I don't want them to be able to add another level 90 monk to their stats to try to call the job good. I'd love to play monk with positionals, but I'm playing reaper now. For some reason this expansion seems really low effort and with bad jobs to play this is becoming kinda not fun. I'm scared of how the next expansion is going to end up.

mained monk since i started playing, hell i didnt even touch another job until stb brought in sam. i still leveled monk to 90 first but im in the same boat now, im giving it up for reaper. i think im stuck on the feel of hw monk, i just cant force myself to play it anymore when reaper feels and plays more satisfying.

Y'all are way too bitter about a video game that you play in your leisure time. Maybe take a break and chill out for a minute; do something that you enjoy.

(If you enjoy swimming through bottomless pools of bitterness, then by all means continue :cool: you do you!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Y'all are way too bitter about a video game that you play in your leisure time. Maybe take a break and chill out for a minute; do something that you enjoy.

(If you enjoy swimming through bottomless pools of bitterness, then by all means continue :cool: you do you!)

---

Believe it or not but I can complain on the forums and also play and enjoy the game at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Y'all are way too bitter about a video game that you play in your leisure time. Maybe take a break and chill out for a minute; do something that you enjoy.

(If you enjoy swimming through bottomless pools of bitterness, then by all means continue :cool: you do you!)

---

It’s odd for you to expect us to potentially stay positive 100% of the time. Venting about changes to a product or hobby we enjoy can serve as a decent release.

And we do enjoy FFXIV.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t issues that aren’t worth mentioning just because it happens to be a game.

‘Chilling out for a minute’ doesn’t miraculously fix the jobs we come back to.

MNK main in ShB and MNK main in Endwalker. I didn't like the changes at first but they are growing on me. I just really enjoy punching and kicking things. NIN on the other hand is... uhh kind of clunky at 90 right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Y'all are way too bitter about a video game that you play in your leisure time. Maybe take a break and chill out for a minute; do something that you enjoy.

(If you enjoy swimming through bottomless pools of bitterness, then by all means continue :cool: you do you!)

---

If you don't like people discussing things on a forum, why did you even bother posting here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IruruCece

If you don't like people discussing things on a forum, why did you even bother posting here

---

Because he has nothing better to do and he's most likely pathetic and alone.

I guess I'm a rare breed. I mained Monk from 2.0-3.2, but it's always been a close secondary and I still got to flex it in savage and such. I'm fine with it. I don't really care about the lost positionals as much as I thought I would, not that I'd mind if they were brought back either. I find the time between 1 minute windows goes by quick enough that I don't care about having few damage ogcds. I mean one extra elixir field in between all of that is hardly worth mourning. And I'll take Thunderclap over Shoulder Tackle any day of the week, damage on gap closers just irritates me, and zipping out of aoes at the last second and going right back in feels thrilling.

Admittedly it took some time for me to warm up to; by the time I finished the MSQ I was still on the fence, but the content in that doesn't really let you really get your teeth into it. It's more forgiving, sure, but downtime still presents some puzzles to solve; it's not really any different from before in terms of deciding how to realign things so you can burst unhindered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Y'all are way too bitter about a video game that you play in your leisure time. Maybe take a break and chill out for a minute; do something that you enjoy.

(If you enjoy swimming through bottomless pools of bitterness, then by all means continue :cool: you do you!)

---

Sir this is the forums, if theirs a annoyance minor or major then it’s on us to call it out. If your that sour on something so benign as opinions then idk what to tell you.

What improves a game? Saying “I love it” I’m blind faith or pointing out legit concerns, if that bugs you I suggest play a game that’s flawless

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

It’s never about the mains, it’s always about catering to the lowest common denominator. People that want the jobs to play itself, people that don’t want to learn people that don’t even like the job based on very shallow statistics.

This is a scourge of a mindsey

---

I wonder who is next. 5.0 was tanks, healers and MCH. 6.0 was SMN and some simple jobs were made even simpler and more foolproof like DNC. Who's gonna be the next victim in 7.0?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewd

I wonder who is next. 5.0 was tanks, healers and MCH. 6.0 was SMN and some simple jobs were made even simpler and more foolproof like DNC. Who's gonna be the next victim in 7.0?

---

You forgot MNK with 6.0.

And 7.0 should be SAM and DRG since they´re "overbloated" or need to doubleweave and have a skill-ceiling left. And all healers going to lose their healing-kit since tanks are going to do their job. Or maybe SGE actually get barriers as barrier heal, lol.
BLM won´t be touched at any time since it´s Yoshi´s class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinno

I spent a lot of time trying to like monk and have finally found a solution.

Many monk mains ( I mean mains not ''I run a roulette every other week'' ) are probably wondering.... I haven't made a single mistake on rotation in like 4 or 5 trials / dungeons. I'm... bored. Why?

New beast gauge is a static rotation recorder.

Monk prior to this ran a static rotation with fast speed, off the gcds AND positional.

Monk now runs a static rotation with fast speed and off the gcds. People who don't believe me try putting your beast gauge off in the corner using hud layout. Now run your STATIC rotation double phoenix opener. Yep, class is identical to pre endwalker except no positional.

The people on the forums acting like all these classes getting easier and easier to play and even more importantly becoming more and more like each other with less identity really need to think about the next expansion. There is a point where even you will become bored with your favorite class and you're next.

The summoner is particularly unfortunate. Maybe the bard is worse.

I found enjoyment playing on controller to make things a bit more busy and trying other classes like red mage and dragoon.

Class design is like the only point of contention for most on this expansion so maybe we could just enjoy the great music and story for a while longer but hey... express yourself. Cheers.

---

And all this coming from someone brand new to the forums.

Its quite obvious their changes are rubbing a lot of people the wrong way and taking a lot of enjoyment out of the game, me included. The game is for people who would rather stare at fancy particle effects then play an actual videogame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awarewolf

My favorite three jobs this expansion are the Monk, Summoner, and Bard, lol. I like things simple in my old age!!

---

If only they had most of SMN abilities as traits so you just have to target the boss. That will reduce the barrier to entry even more and would be even better for the game.

That is until they implement automatic loot after zoning in to an instance, which is sorely needed at this point. No point in pressing buttons for a few mins just to get the glams we want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I will not speak on monk seeing as how I have not touched the class besides the obligatory levelling it to 15 back in the ARR days to unlock Dragoon, but I will say that Summoner right now is in the best state it's ever been in and Bard feels fantastic to play now that the dot procs for the songs are gone. Remember, for every 1 person who sits here complaining on the forums there are at least 100 regular players who are enjoying the new job changes for these jobs and while each job could be improved in some way or other, we do not need to return to mechanics that failed badly.

---

That 100 or so players (the so-called, 'silent majority') will pick up the job, level it a bit, and drop them and not know why or care. Then we wonder why healers are so scarce and queues are so long for everyone else.

The people here that take the time to talk about job mechanics usually understand the game far more than most of the playerbase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

As much as I hate the removal of positionals and so many ogcds on MNK.
The balance issues atm is my greatest concern.

It's not that I don't think they'll solve it, it's just that it feels trash that more low effort Jobs can pull huge numbers even with mistakes than other Jobs that are currently too low.
I don't think it should be like this at launch either it just feels terrible always knowing that you could just play the fotm easy mode and pull significantly bigger numbers.

Edit:

Btw this isn't true at all lol...
What you're saying here is just ridiculous.

---

Always these types with over 1k posts and absolutely nothing to say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jerome15

Played dark knight in heavensward just to watch it get gutted in sb. Played monk in sb to watch it get gutted in shb. Played smn in shb until 5.4 monk changes and went back to monk (granted I played very little of shb because of the state monk was in). Watched both smn and monk get gutted in EW.

I refuse to level monk after these changes because I don't want them to be able to add another level 90 monk to their stats to try to call the job good. I'd love to play monk with positionals, but I'm playing reaper now. For some reason this expansion seems really low effort and with bad jobs to play this is becoming kinda not fun. I'm scared of how the next expansion is going to end up.

---

I legitimately stopped playing sage so I could not pad their metrics on healers anymore XD.

At least reaper is solid (imo).

Are you trying to get reported for spam?

You don't understand and see the hypocrisy of your comment directed at me too?

I'm having trouble picking up anything nowadays.

I was kind of looking forward to the SMN changes, but playing it more than one dungeon made me feel dead inside. At least I use to have to pay attention to DOTs with my rotations. Now I don't have to do anything but spam ruin in between summons.....How are people enjoying this class? One dudgeon, I mean that literally, and I felt like the class is as braindead as it could possibly be. I don't feel like I have any way to improve my gameplay, it's so simple that you've already mastered the class within a couple hours of playing it. That's a huge negative for me. There goes my main, and all it's glamour.

From what I've seen people there are quite a few people enjoying it. How? I'll never know. Will they enjoy it in a couple months when their key bind for ruin is so worn down it's text is faded, and they have carpal tunnel from the one button spam? I also don't know.

I'm seeing the trend of dumbing down classes, and it's kind of sad. There should always be options for ease of use, like red mage. We don't need every class to be that though. I want classes to have middle/lower skill floors and high skill ceilings. That doesn't appeal to the mass audience it seems, so classes will get simpler and simpler as time goes on.

As a Bard main who started playing the game around the end of Storm Blood I think this Bard is the best form there has been your rotation has more then what it had had in the past and everything is lined up with your burst window. The only 2 things I would like changed but also are opinions are:

1. Bloodletter procs completely resetting the cooldown as it used to just to make Armies feel a bit better.

2. Barrage make activate shadowbite for aoe rotation .

Other then that Bard is perfect this expansion love the new Battle voice and radiant finale music animations it really ties the job together look wise for me especially with that new AF gear.

Lining everything up with the burst window as well as allowing soul gage to fill mid mages ballad to pop a apex sidewinder blasting just to have another when you hit your burst window Is also quite nice.

Honestly I think Summoner is better now than it’s ever been. Potencies etc need adjusting because it’s dps is unfairly low but apart from that it’s fun and looks cool? I love rotating between the different Demi-primals and how each one changes up the rotation. i.e Ifrit does charge, Garuda is speedy but necessitates Swiftcast for Astral Flow, Titan has mobility and the most oGCD windows. It has good utility in Searing Light and Radiant Shield - though the windows you can actually use them are very limited lol

Bard on the other hand still feels hollow to me, it’s like a pure DPS desperately trying to convince everyone it’s a support so they’ll take it to raids. Battle Voice and Finale are conveyor-belt cool downs (same timing and usage every fight because raid buff line-up). They don’t actually do anything for the party either since the affect the Bard; you’d use them at the same time for the same purposes even if they solely affected the Bard. They could be automatic and nothing would change for Bards.
Minne is functionally useless - the countless threads of healers having nothing to heal attest to this. Paean has too long a cool-down for its lacklustre effect to ever be useful because the very few times a removable debuff appears you can only remove it from one party member anyway…every 45 seconds. But when removable debuffs do appear, they tend to hit more than one party member anyway.
Troubadour is a role skill but again - healers aren’t generally complaining about players taking vast amounts of damage anyway.

Honestly I feel like the current iteration of Bard is just nothing but shiny, high potency arrow attacks because they really wanted to cover up how bad the ‘support’ aspect of the job has become. Numerically it’s fine; in terms of actually playing, it feels like an Archer with two useless songs and some passive party buffs that don’t make any meaningful difference to the job.
And at that the DPS side doesn’t make a lot of sense either. DoTs are nigh-irrelevant a lot of the time yet they didn’t give us anything to manage or consider in their place. Paeon is now an entire song where you don’t hit your oGCDs (Bloodletter) so they retain charges for burst phase which doesn’t make any sense for a supposedly proc-based oGCD heavy dps and I genuinely think is the result of an oversight and not some big brain changes they made to Bard’s rotation. Barrage doesn’t proc Shadowbite which can make trying to get it during big pulls a pain, especially if you’ve used Raging Strikes. Minne and Paean don’t have any meaningful interaction with Bard’s dps which just makes them feel even more irrelevant as abilities.

GL if u are doing the same rotation on mnk....

i like bard more now, not dpending on dots is good , u still gain gauge btw pulls / mobs....and for overworld the spike dps is nice who needs 45s dots on mobs that last 5s? (dislike the new conal aoe tho animation wise) , ballad needs love :D

SMN is a mixed bag...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

Potencies etc need adjusting because it’s dps is unfairly low but apart from that it’s fun and looks cool?

---

I can´t see anything which justifies a higher damage output. The new SMN is nothing but animation-spam. It´s so simple (simpler as DNC?!), i would actually call it a RDPS-class with summoning crystals instead of a caster and that´s even the level of DPS it should stuck with.

Reaper and Monk need a hard nerf in potency given to "how simple they´re" too.