The story(spoilers)

Postives

1. Godly story telling
   Strong characters
   Emotional areas
   Growth
   Exploration

Negatives:
1. Points become forgotton
2 little to no effect
3. Actions taken in story ( forgotton) or ignored impact wise.


What do I mean? Well its simple using 3 parts (there is more but...)
Crystal brave betrayal seems to only have a negative effect on scion character our character is like well guess it never happened.

Niddhogg had a legit reason and nothing at all no impact on us outside something to kill.

Emet-selch tells us the truth but the second we get back we ask no questions and seemly forget his words then run back kissing the lights ass.

Basically we are way to goody toe shoes (drk fixed this in arr but after arr its back to a pathic goody goody.

Basically nothing impacts us like it should, we have little to any negative efects and what we do get is ignored or made pointless 5 quest later.

Another issue is going role quest in shadowbringer basically ignoring what job you are because its role giving you side characters that your character honestly has no reason to give a damn about is just bad. (Please dont drop job quest)

Next point:
The story should allow us to take negative actions or at the very least give us remark options to things we should rlly be like "look here i learned the truth stupid crystal, you created the scion and destoryed everyones soul shatter them"

Add side quest for our characters state of mind for whst they been through story wise and drop the stupid bs commedy questline.

Finally really let us be bad sometimes i sware characters npc, us that we work with are is allowed to get a impact emotional wise are this 2 dimsional goody toe shoe characters.

Even superman did some evil, same with batman,green arrow and other dc heros. Just because your a hero doesn't mean you stay 2 dimsional you can do bad, mistake and build back up.

I do agree somewhat with you that there seems to be a lack of consequence in the story, especially with Y'shtola's many deaths (which I'm honestly tired of. If they're going to commit to killing a character, commit to the decision). Though the Crystal Brave scenario was mainly for Alphinaud and effected his character the most; it made sense they made the decision that way. The WoL didn't really have any deep connection with any of the Crystal Braves, so it of course wouldn't have a lasting consequence.

And let's be realistic; the writing team can't possibly keep up the job quest story lines with the amount if jobs we have now. We literally have a whole bunch of combat jobs, and two more are being added in Endwalker, to be able to not burn the writing team out it makes sense that they'll focus on role quests instead. I will miss job quests, but not to the point I will be frustrated at them not being included anymore. I'd much rather them focus on content, and yes the Hildibrand story line than job quests themselves. At least with Hildibrand there is the potential to add more trials.

As for the WoL being evil... the WoL is supposed to be an avatar of justice, having an evil WoL isn't going to happen ever. It just contradicts completely against the point of the WoL existing. Even the DRK questlines describe the DRK as striving to save others through sacrifice, but also acknowledging that sometimes you can't save everyone.

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Originally Posted by nebby00

I do agree somewhat with you that there seems to be a lack of consequence in the story, especially with Y'shtola's many deaths (which I'm honestly tired of. If they're going to commit to killing a character, commit to the decision). Though the Crystal Brave scenario was mainly for Alphinaud and effected his character the most; it made sense they made the decision that way. The WoL didn't really have any deep connection with any of the Crystal Braves, so it of course wouldn't have a lasting consequence.

And let's be realistic; the writing team can't possibly keep up the job quest story lines with the amount if jobs we have now. We literally have a whole bunch of combat jobs, and two more are being added in Endwalker, to be able to not burn the writing team out it makes sense that they'll focus on role quests instead. I will miss job quests, but not to the point I will be frustrated at them not being included anymore. I'd much rather them focus on content, and yes the Hildibrand story line than job quests themselves. At least with Hildibrand there is the potential to add more trials.

As for the WoL being evil... the WoL is supposed to be an avatar of justice, having an evil WoL isn't going to happen ever. It just contradicts completely against the point of the WoL existing. Even the DRK questlines describe the DRK as striving to save others through sacrifice, but also acknowledging that sometimes you can't save everyone.

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I didnt say evil being evil and doing bad things is different.

Examole ff7 you literally start as terrost other ffs your typically doing bad things for good reasons. Ff13 you literally hunted for being "bad"

Also we literally are accussed of what they did and basically arrested lt should have been worth more,than what we got there.

I dunno why people keep saying that Y'shtola keeps surviving.
She only got almost killed once as far as I can remember when Zenos cut her down and she got help almost right away.

The first time she used Flow she came back and was blinded and Thancred lost his magic so both of them suffered consequences long-term.
And the second time Emet got her out almost immediately after she entered it, she wasn't there long enough for problems to occur and Emet was following you around and testing you I think it made sense that he'd do it.
Y'shtola wasn't a threat to him as far as he was concerned and he was right about that.

Edit: I guess that Emet did attack her at the end too, but he did that to everyone and everyone survived.
Honestly Alisaie and Alphinaud surviving what happened to them in that scene was more silly.
They're not even injured at the end.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

I didnt say evil being evil and doing bad things is different.

Examole ff7 you literally start as terrost other ffs your typically doing bad things for good reasons. Ff13 you literally hunted for being "bad"

Also we literally are accussed of what they did and basically arrester ld shoulda had more worth than what we got there.

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Actually, in FF7 (as well as the remake) you start as a mercenary working for a group that is trying to stop Shinra from killing the planet. Shinra explicitly brands the main character and the group as terrorists in the remake to further their own agenda, though Avalanche itself knows that it is doing some bad for their perceived greater good. In the original I think it was a bit less complicated overall. Shinra bad, Avalanche good was basically the gist of disc 1. lol

There's only so much you can do with a silent protagonist and I feel XIV has done a fairly job of it overall; with the increase of dialogue choices at least allowing to inject a little more of our personal feelings into situations even if it doesn't actually change anything.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Niddhogg had a legit reason and nothing at all no impact on us outside something to kill.

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Why would it have an impact on us?

Nidhogg had no intention of ever relenting and wanted to visit suffering upon Ishgard for eternity; long after the people he held any personal grudge against had perished.

He was blinded by rage and beyond reason which really only presented one option.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

I didnt say evil being evil and doing bad things is different.

Examole ff7 you literally start as terrost other ffs your typically doing bad things for good reasons. Ff13 you literally hunted for being "bad"

Also we literally are accussed of what they did and basically arrested lt should have been worth more,than what we got there.

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I never played any of the other FF games, so I have no clue about any of their storylines, not really interested in playing any of the other ones either until I get some more free time.

I do agree though, there should have been more punishment for the Crystal Braves than what we got. But, still the storyline of FFXIV consistently has a theme of forgiveness so I guess if that's what they're sticking to there's not much that can be done about it.

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I dunno why people keep saying that Y'shtola keeps surviving.
She only got almost killed once as far as I can remember when Zenos cut her down and she got help almost right away.

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First time, she should have been dead. They brought her back from the lifestream, then she got cut down by Zenos causing a "fake" death scene for her, but she instead was critically wounded. Third time, she should have died again, but instead was saved by Emet. Having near death moments three separate times is three times too many. It's annoying to watch, and it made me dislike her character although she's not my least favorite out of some of the characters I do dislike. I really hope they don't pull out another one in Endwalker for her.

Honestly I prefer silent protagonists in RPG's, I always feel like when they're voiced they're not at all what I imagine my character to be like.
And it also feels like it locks you into playing a certain character, often times the voice will just feel weird with certain personalities.
That wouldn't be a problem in FFXIV considering that the WoL has a set personality, but I still think that voice acting locks you into something and makes it feel like it's less YOUR character and more someone else.

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Originally Posted by nebby00

I never played any of the other FF games, so I have no clue about any of their storylines, not really interested in playing any of the other ones either until I get some more free time.

I do agree though, there should have been more punishment for the Crystal Braves than what we got. But, still the storyline of FFXIV consistently has a theme of forgiveness so I guess if that's what they're sticking to there's not much that can be done about it.



First time, she should have been dead. They brought her back from the lifestream, then she got cut down by Zenos causing a "fake" death scene for her, but she instead was critically wounded. Third time, she should have died again, but instead was saved by Emet. Having near death moments three separate times is three times too many. It's annoying to watch, and it made me dislike her character although she's not my least favorite out of some of the characters I do dislike. I really hope they don't pull out another one in Endwalker for her.

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Why '' should '' she have been dead?
Thancred didn't die either.
Entering the lifestream doesn't kill you immediately, people used to use it as a way of teleporting they tell you this in the game.
She was simply lost in it and she was helped in getting out.

Alisaie gets cut down by Fordola in Stormblood too and is fine I don't see people bringing that up against her.
And I really wouldn't count Flow as a death that's kinda bizarre to me.

Edit: Alisaie also gets shot with a poisoned arrow and conveniently makes it back and is healed up.
Other characters have had stuff like this happen before Y'shtola has only had it happen to her once.

I'm also on board with the idea of more consequences in the story for the protagonists and I hope Endwalker delivers on that front. I'd like to see a lot of the current cast retired at the very least, though if Endwalker is supposedly the grand finale of many of the game's established story arcs and the second coming of the apocalypse then I would like to think that at least some major characters will perish.

It's a shame that FFXIV doesn't take more cues from the recent FFVII remake. It has a pretty big cast of characters, both in terms of protagonists and antagonists - but it handles them in a way that doesn't generally kill off the antagonists after a single fight and it also allows them to get their fair share of victories in. The protagonists, in turn, aren't written or made to sit around and be completely incompetent either.

Alisae isn't particularly my favorite either for that reason, since she should have been shown to be in critical condition. Really, any characters that are put in life threatening situations that have high mortality but they miraculously survive for the sake of drama annoys me greatly. But that's just me, I prefer character deaths when there's a reason for it, not for the sake of drawing out tension or getting a response from the player only to say "Nevermind, they're okay". And I never really cared much for Thancred either past ARR, so honestly looking at it objectively, it's probably my dislike for these characters and this particular pet peeve of mine that causes me to dislike them so much. Otherwise they would have been perfectly fine to me at least.

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Originally Posted by nebby00

Alisae isn't particularly my favorite either for that reason, since she should have been shown to be in critical condition. Really, any characters that are put in life threatening situations that have high mortality but they miraculously survive for the sake of drama annoys me greatly. But that's just me, I prefer character deaths when there's a reason for it, not for the sake of drawing out tension or getting a response from the player only to say "Nevermind, they're okay". And I never really cared much for Thancred either past ARR, so honestly looking at it objectively, it's probably my dislike for these characters and this particular pet peeve of mine that causes me to dislike them so much. Otherwise they would have been perfectly fine to me at least.

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I don't really like it either, in Shadowbringers when Emet basically '' kills '' all of them it feels cheap to me when they just show up unharmed again.

I am just questioning why people are zero:ing in so much on Y'shtola because she's not even the worst in this case.
And I really don't think that Flow counts.
People are talking about Flow as if it kills the caster but it doesn't.
In the story when Urianger explains it he says that it was the original way of teleportation but is very unsafe because there was basically a 50/50 that you'd be lost in the lifestream or make it out.
But it didn't kill you.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I don't really like it either, in Shadowbringers when Emet basically '' kills '' all of them it feels cheap to me when they just show up unharmed again.

I am just questioning why people are zero:ing in so much on Y'shtola because she's not even the worst in this case.
And I really don't think that Flow counts.
People are talking about Flow as if it kills the caster but it doesn't.
In the story when Urianger explains it he says that it was the original way of teleportation but is very unsafe because there was basically a 50/50 that you'd be lost in the lifestream or make it out.
But it didn't kill you.

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I think it's mostly because Y'shtola potentially could be a lot more interesting if there wasn't the risk that every expansion she had a little "drama moment" for the sake of the player going "Oh no! Not Y'shtola... oh she's okay, we're good." Didn't realize though that flow didn't kill the caster, but it had been awhile since I replayed through HW, so I might not have remember certain lore bits clearly. Even so, without Kan-E-Senna getting the elementals to pluck her out of the lifestream, it seemed to have been implied she would have been lost and technically counted as "dead", considering she wouldn't have a physical form anymore, nor could she materialize on Hydaelyn either until she could find her way out.

It has been interesting though discussing this with you, wouldn't have known about the whole non-fatal implications of using Flow. ^.^

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Examole ff7 you literally start as terrost other ffs your typically doing bad things for good reasons. Ff13 you literally hunted for being "bad".

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We spent nearly an entire expansion hiding out in Ishgard because we had been "bad" in the rest of Eorzea in a similar way to the L'Cie.

OP needs to do more non-MSQ storylines and do some (I assume, yes let me have it) more than surface level observations of what's been happening in the story over the last 10 years. There are consequences though no one "too" important has died, our character is affected by events and can respond based off past experience, and as far as taking negative actions I have to ask "why?" and "what would negative count as to you?".

In my opinion there has only been two cop-out moments in the story so far but haven't negatively affected their respective characters' arcs or growth.

Also I hope this thread doesn't explode like the last one.

I do love a story where your choices actually matter, but also get that writing that kind of story convincingly takes a ton of effort and resources and can see why it'd be hard to pull off in a game like this. The only MMO I've played that even did a halfway decent job was SWTOR, but I mean. I don't even know if they've kept that up? I stopped playing during the first expansion so I dunno.

I'm content enough with the increasingly snarky and cheeky dialogue options they've been giving us, even if they don't actually change anything. They're at least funny : p

Honestly my only beef with our character's "personality" is that a lot of the very few times they give us one it involves our character acting in a way I personally think kinda makes no sense. Like the alchemy or monk quests, and a handful of other quests that involve talking to like... Scientists or historians, where the NPCs talk to us like we're just a dumb adventurer and clearly uninterested in anything involving science or history or technical anything. That rubs me the wrong way more than the lack of actual impact in our dialogue options. There's just this inconsistency in how the wol reacts to things, I dunno. Like this person has seen and done and been through some absolutely wild things, they're partying with some of the greatest tacticians in the realms, shaking hands with every single city state's leader on the regular, having coffee with nobles and (potentially) mastering multiple forms of combat and crafting (and crafting NPCs regularly express how impressed they are that you're a master crafter and master adventurer???) Like you expect me to believe this person has zero interest in tactics or science or history??? Nah son I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

OP needs to do more non-MSQ storylines and do some (I assume, yes let me have it) more than surface level observations of what's been happening in the story over the last 10 years. There are consequences though no one "too" important has died, our character is affected by events and can respond based off past experience, and as far as taking negative actions I have to ask "why?" and "what would negative count as to you?".

In my opinion there has only been two cop-out moments in the story so far but haven't negatively affected their respective characters' arcs or growth.

Also I hope this thread doesn't explode like the last one.

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Negative impact could be small like rude,cruel remarks towards certain npcs, or bandit tactics like preventing uldah from get supplys.

Or even secretly changing your diety to others or non at all.

Maybe even go around punching lala characters in the face.

Maybe even add some drinkable rum,whiskey etc and pick up bad habits. Or you know like the one i said cursing and telling off hydelon.

Also side quest mostly cover history,land mass or how the area lives/functions outside a select few

Or maybe secretly crushing and going to spots showing certain npcs respect like niddhogg, emet etc

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Negative impact could be small like rude,cruel remarks towards certain npcs, or bandit tactics like preventing uldah from get supplys.

Or even secretly changing your diety to others or non at all.

Maybe even go around punching lala characters in the face.

Maybe even add some drinkable rum,whiskey etc and pick up bad habits. Or you know like the one i said cursing and telling off hydelon.

Also side quest mostly cover history,land mass or how the area lives/functions outside a select few

Or maybe secretly crushing and going to spots showing certain npcs respect like niddhogg, emet etc

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might want to try a drk...

not going to put too fine a point on it, but several of the job quests, both combat and crafting have some darker tones on them. you have barely scratched the surface and are an "expert".

simply because you prefer more fatal consequences, does not mean there are zero entailed.

me thinks OP wants more of a GTA version of XIV. =p

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

might want to try a drk...

not going to put too fine a point on it, but several of the job quests, both combat and crafting have some darker tones on them. you have barely scratched the surface and are an "expert".

simply because you prefer more fatal consequences, does not mean there are zero entailed.

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I mention drk the orginal questline up to 60 covered this after that not rlly honestly

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

me thinks OP wants more of a GTA version of XIV. =p

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actrually the ff of xiv not gta.

Even in ff series there are actions you take with negative impacts

Example cloud literally goes insane as ff7 orginal progresses

Ff12 your sent to a dungeon, your arrest multiple times.

Ff6 you literaly face it at the start after your mind controll helm is removed

Ff tatics really does it well.

Xiv is legit one of thevonly ones with so little negative and what you get is washed over way to quick

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Negative impact could be small like rude,cruel remarks towards certain npcs, or bandit tactics like preventing uldah from get supplys.

Or even secretly changing your diety to others or non at all.

Maybe even go around punching lala characters in the face.

Maybe even add some drinkable rum,whiskey etc and pick up bad habits. Or you know like the one i said cursing and telling off hydelon.

Also side quest mostly cover history,land mass or how the area lives/functions outside a select few

Or maybe secretly crushing and going to spots showing certain npcs respect like niddhogg, emet etc

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So you are probably looking for a different experience entirely which FF XIV probably won't provide for you. I'm all for more RPG elements, but you won't find an abundance of them in an MMO. Even with games like WoW the biggest decisions for the player character to make are usually "pick x option for one side of the story or pick y for the other side", and those haven't been around too long all things considered. I'd suggest modding up a Skyrim playthrough. It can be whatever you want it to be. :p

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Negative impact could be small like rude,cruel remarks towards certain npcs, or bandit tactics like preventing uldah from get supplys.

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As others have said, play the DRK Job quests (specifically the level 30-50 quests). You'll get your wish.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Or even secretly changing your diety to others or non at all.

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There is nothing stopping you being athiest or agnostic character wise as the 'guardian' of the Twelve is basically just a lingering aspect of 1.0 with no actual gameplay or story connection anymore (in 1.0 choice of guardian factored into gameplay by affecting your elemental stats slightly at game start based on the element of the member of the Twelve in question, but elemental stats have now been removed, as well as you could evoke your 'Guardian's Blessing' to boost EXP during levequests, but that was scrapped too. There was also a main story quest in 1.0 that when praying to the stone monuments of the Twelve, when you prayed to the one of your Guardian you got a special ring of that god or goddess).

Now, the only time your choice of guardian factors into gamplay in ARR is during the Ceremony of Eternal Bonding when you and your partner's Guardian's glyphs appear on the altar behind the minister during the ceremony, but again has no actual bearing on anything. So there is absolutely nothing stopping you having no deity you follow, and just ignore the reference in the character sheet as it has no bearing otherwise. Also, there is irony here given who the WoL really is, so I won't spoil that particular detail.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Maybe even go around punching lala characters in the face.

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Nothing is stopping you emoting npcs - hells, I play a paragon of peace, justice and compassion, and yet I can't stop myself slapping that damn Mini crockpot dealer in the Gold Saucer in emote every time I get a low payout. And I've seen I'm not the only one (I've seen others do it too!). Either way, you can do this in emote, no it won't have an ongoing result, but that's an RPG for you.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Maybe even add some drinkable rum,whiskey etc and pick up bad habits. Or you know like the one i said cursing and telling off hydelon.

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This will never happen. Many countries that the game is available in have tight regulations on how alcohol and drinking are depicted in media and to allow players to engage in drinking (let alone get drunk) would possibly result in tighter reclassifications - and the game actually ran afoul of this once before in 1.0 in a meta way (the original 1.0 Collector's Edition featured a drink tumbler among the items in all countries save the United States, where it was conspicuously absent. This is because of a number of US states having laws against giving away items that could be considered to promote alcohol consumption).

So the same will apply within the game as well, SE simply are not going to risk getting into trouble with countries which would affect the acessability of the game, and thus income.

There is a beer mug/drinking emote for sale on the Mogstation but given the ambiguity as to what is inside it's clear this point still stands.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Also side quest mostly cover history,land mass or how the area lives/functions outside a select few

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This is mostly what the real-life Encylopedia Eorzea books are for - they fill in a lot of the missing lore of the world and it's cultures, people, environments and history.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Or maybe secretly crushing and going to spots showing certain npcs respect like niddhogg, emet etc

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I get it, you want to be a bad guy or antagonist. Unfortunately, you're playing the wrong game as this is a FF title where you're always only the 'good' guys fighting against an evil organisation or oppressive country, usually an empire. The closest you could get to something like this was the end of ARR's 2.55 story and the first half of HW where you were technically persona non grata on the run from the Monetarists, but given they were well known for being corrupt plutocrats, and Lolorito doing such a poor hatchet job with the aftermath of the Bloody Banquet - it naturally doesn't stick and pretty much everyone who matters in Eorzea does not believe it and continue to treat you as normal). You're simply not going to get this style of gameplay here in FFXIV.

Even ShB's teasing of "become the Warrior of Darkness" was a misnomer, the only 'dark' thing is you bring the night sky back and are not actually evil or even using actual darkness powers at all despite what ShB's opening movie may depicit (it's simply as an alias you adopt because the 'Warrior of Light' label has such a stigma in the First).

You're simply never going to be playing as a 'bad' character in the story, because that's the whole point of being an adventurer in the first place and what seperates adventurers from mercenaries and sellswords - altruism and the desire for the common good, not putting personal gain in front of everything else.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Or maybe secretly crushing and going to spots showing certain npcs respect like niddhogg, emet etc

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That's basically the entire premise of the level 80 DRG quest.

You and one of Nidhogg's descendants go to honor his memory at the Royal Menagerie with an offering of a flower he was fond of and vow that he be remembered for everything he was, not simply an enemy of Ishgard.

Considering that Emet-Selch is the narrator for Endwalker I'd be surprised he doesn't get a more elaborate send-off, too.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I get it, you want to be a bad guy or antagonist. Unfortunately, you're playing the wrong game as this is a FF title where you're always only the 'good' guys fighting against an evil organisation or oppressive country, usually an empire.

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Clearly you’ve never played ff type 0 or ff7 lmao.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Clearly you’ve never played ff type 0 or ff7 lmao.

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You forgot ff8 or ff10 or even ff9 for a good bit

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

People are talking about Flow as if it kills the caster but it doesn't.

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It doesn't directly kill you but dropping you into the Lifestream may as well be death unless someone knows what happened and has the apparently very specialised ability to track you down and pull you out again before you run out of the willpower to hold your own aether together.

There's also the more physically hazardous chance of landing inside the earth, or over a lava pit, or the middle of the ocean.

So no, Flow itself doesn't kill you, but has a high chance of leading to death all the same.

Not all the Crystal Braves betrayed the Scions and Lolorito stripped away their power. It's why they went rogue then into hiding. Also see the Griffin story for more consequences of the betrayal. Go back to Mor as well to see the aftermath of the Crystal Braves as well.

The leaders also suppressed what happened and Lolorito never intended to kill the Scions. He wanted them captured, after that he didn't have a plan as he was more focused on screwing over his rival. Odds are he would have just wanted favors before releasing the Scions.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Clearly you’ve never played ff type 0 or ff7 lmao.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

You forgot ff8 or ff10 or even ff9 for a good bit

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Ughh, I assure you both I most definetely have played all of the above (and the rest of the FF series). And to reiterate my previous post, even in those titles you are still playing the 'good' guys fighting against an oppressive society, organization or country - evil empire in Type 0, evil megacorp in FFVII (and this in particular they were specifically destroying their own facilities and assets simply to paint the protagonists in propoganda as terrorists, which they really weren't), oppressive dictatorship (who was led by a Richard Nixon copy to boot!) that was really being led in the shadows by an evil sorceress in FFVIII, kingdom with jingoistic aspirations being led on a string by a mysterious arms dealer in FFIX... etc etc.

Yes I admit often the lines about who is really in the right can blur slightly, but it's still usually pretty clear cut that the forces you're fighting against are evil or at least morally grey and pretty much you end up trying to stop no less than the destruction or at least ruination of the world ultimately, which the antagonists in every FF game invariably end up unleashing or instigating. Every single time.

As I said before, I get it, evil is cool, bad guys get all the fun, and they wear the coolest outfits and get the fanciest toys. But you need to look elsewhere if you think this game is going to suddenlly allow you to start slapping people around for no reason other than because it amuses you, slaughtering innocents to show how edgy you are, and throwing in your lot with the evil empire or the black clad ghosts from the past who are stuck between Denial and Bargaining on the 5 Stages of Grief, because it simply will not happen.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Clearly you’ve never played ff type 0 or ff7 lmao.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Ughh, I assure you both I most definetely have played all of the above (and the rest of the FF series). And to reiterate my previous post, even in those titles you are still playing the 'good' guys fighting against an oppressive society, organization or country - evil empire in Type 0, evil megacorp in FFVII (and this in particular they were specifically destroying their own facilities and assets simply to paint the protagonists in propoganda as terrorists, which they really weren't), oppressive dictatorship (who was led by a Richard Nixon copy to boot!) that was really being led in the shadows by an evil sorceress in FFVIII, kingdom with jingoistic aspirations being led on a string by a mysterious arms dealer in FFIX... etc etc.

Yes I admit often the lines about who is really in the right can blur slightly, but it's still usually pretty clear cut that the forces you're fighting against are evil or at least morally grey and pretty much you end up trying to stop no less than the destruction or at least ruination of the world ultimately, which the antagonists in every FF game invariably end up unleashing or instigating. Every single time.

As I said before, I get it, evil is cool, bad guys get all the fun, and they wear the coolest outfits and get the fanciest toys. But you need to look elsewhere if you think this game is going to allow you to suddennly allow you to start slapping people around for no reason other than because it amuses you, slaughtering innocents to show how edgy you are, and throwing in your lot with the evil empire or the black clad ghosts from the past who are stuck between Denial and Bargaining on the 5 Stages of Grief, because it simply will not happen.

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Your assuming that im consindering them evil, or that everyone sees them as evil.

I dont see them as evil just character willing to do anything for their love, in memkry or true justice.

This are not "jokers" that are always evil.

Niddhog wanted to kill all for good reason they betrayed his kin, killed his sister, stole his eyes so honestly he is anti-hero at most.

Emet-selch is a true hero followimg darkness for the greater good.


Honestly I see the scions/hydelon as evil

On the subject of morality, Yoshi-P had this to say:

Q: With each new expansion new themes are introduced and are focused on. How does the team decide on which themes to focus on with each new expansion?

Naoki Yoshida: The major themes for the expansion would be first conveyed from me as the game’s director to the development team. Although it is somewhat difficult to describe my personal decision-making process it could be summarised as [requiring a sense of] surprise and fun. This contains a dual meaning in that I assess whether as developers ourselves we would encounter surprises while enjoying the production process, at the same time as considering whether the story of the expansion would be exciting and fun for the players. In the last expansion Shadowbringers, I had thought that players must have grown tired of being referred to as a Warrior of Light. I also came up with the idea of reversing the conventional notion of light equating to justice or something holy and darkness equating to evil or something bad to generate a sense of surprise.

The current state of global affairs is incredibly complex and simple two-dimensional theories of good/bad from ancient times can no longer quantify this world we live in. As such, a large factor [that contributed to the selection of these themes] is that I thought I could cultivate new values and a new sense of realisation within myself by changing perspective and carefully considering the other party’s arguments in regard to a given event. Half of the time these things are born from one’s intuition and flashes of inspiration. I guessed as much but it really is hard to explain. (laughs)

Source: https://www.impulsegamer.com/naoki-y...vs-lore-story/

I think the part above in bold is particularly worthy of note and readily applies to previous Final Fantasy titles as well. Especially where modern day concepts of 'good' and 'evil' are concerned.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

FFVII Protagonists really weren't terrorists

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Uhh... not to be agreeing with Ye Olde villainy proponents, but the heroes in FFVII are most assuredly terrorists. I haven't played the reboot(it's not a remake), but in the original you set bombs in power plants and blow them up, directly blowing up and harming civilians.

Sure, the evil mega corporation drops the Sector 7 plate, and you do try to stop it, and they blame it on you... but that doesn't excuse Avalanche from blowing up two Mako reactors along with everyone and everything nearby.

The intent was morally grey heroes. Square wanted to top the moral ambiguity of amnesiac/slave crown Terra from FFVI incinerating/gassing Narshe guards and their tamed guard beasts.

The feeling from it didn't effect me as a kid, because I didn't even realize what exactly the consequences of blowing up a power plant are, and they don't show the casualties when "good" guys do it(except in gameplay).

As the game progresses, it obviously disembarks from its outset fairly dramatically. You go from being environmental terrorists to hunting Sephiroth/unraveling the Ancients' mysteries, all the while finding out just how deep the rabbit hole is for, "Evil Electric Company really is super evil." But the focus shifts to the alien and supernatural in a way where the dark edge the heroes have in the beginning is blunted.

Basically they don't stay terrorists, but they were terrorists at the start of the game through their actions. Not too mention all of the times Barrett clears rooms by firing his gun arm into the air to scare civilians.

By the time you have your full party it is composed of three Avalanche terrorists(Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett), two Shinra related people(Vincent/Cait Sith), Aeris, Yuffie, and Red 13. Three people who killed civilians at the start of the game while attempting to fight the evil megacorp by committing terrorist acts. Two people who worked/are working for the evil megacorp. Three people who have been directly affected/harmed by the evil megacorp, but haven't blown up any civilians. 5/8ths of your party is morally ambiguous but ultimately heroes, with 3/8ths of it being mostly good. Yuffie does have that whole thievery thing going on.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

I dont see them as evil just character willing to do anything for their love, in memkry or true justice.

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Meanwhile the Scions are fighting on behalf of living people, both the people they love and even the people they don't personally or necessarily, not just the memory of justice for long dead people, and yet you consider them evil. That view of morality just makes no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Meanwhile the Scions are fighting on behalf of living people, both the people they love and even the people they don't personally or necessarily, not just the memory of justice for long dead people, and yet you consider them evil. That view of morality just makes no sense to me.

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It's called being an edgelord but trying to justify it beyond simply wanting to be one. Because multiple global genocides to maybe get back people that are long gone or a thousand year war of vengeance against people that no longer exist is what good guys do apparently. Initial motivations matter yes but doesn't make present actions justifiable. But I have a feeling OP is just trying to ruffle feathers.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

But I have a feeling OP is just trying to ruffle feathers.

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I actually hope that is true, because the alternative is kind of disturbing.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

But I have a feeling OP is just trying to ruffle feathers.

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Given their post history, most likely. It's the same person who was here the other week calling all sorts of threats against other posters and/or the dev team.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Negatives:
1. Points become forgotton
2 little to no effect
3. Actions taken in story ( forgotton) or ignored impact wise.

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You do forget things but the points either come back to you when it's relevant or you may remember if you watch others doing it. I recommend older players watch the 3.2 cut scene after the Antitower because back in 3.2 it didn't make any sense so it was easy to forget it. It makes complete sense once you are at 5.5 though.

There is not an impact on your character because it's on you to roleplay how it affects you because it's your character.

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Originally Posted by PlushyprincessMusa

Next point:
The story should allow us to take negative actions or at the very least give us remark options to things we should rlly be like "look here i learned the truth stupid crystal, you created the scion and destoryed everyones soul shatter them"

Add side quest for our characters state of mind for whst they been through story wise and drop the stupid bs commedy questline.

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SE does not want to decide how your character reacts to things but the choices can't affect anything because that means developing two entirely different quest paths. That is a high development cost with no benefit because 50% less people will do each of these quest paths.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Uhh... not to be agreeing with Ye Olde villainy proponents, but the heroes in FFVII are most assuredly terrorists. I haven't played the reboot(it's not a remake)

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FF7R spoilers:

It's not a reboot or a remake. It's a sequel. Yes, that is an actual spoiler.

But yeah, FF7 basically went the Adam Sandler route of heroes vs villains, at least near the beginning. Character development and the perspective of the story's plot shifting from ecoterrorists vs corporate dictators to cosmic horror did a lot to clean it up, though.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

FF7R spoilers:

It's not a reboot or a remake. It's a sequel. Yes, that is an actual spoiler.

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That's supposition. As far as I can tell it's more in line with just being more FF7 expanded universe style gobbledygook aimed at milking Ye Olde Fanboys. It's a metanarrative aimed at rehashing the old with something brand new. Basically they wrote something that will cash in on old characters, but will manage to not really tell anything new other than, "We didn't want to be bored making a remake, here's a scathing amount of detail on old characters with new redshirts for character development/feels. Add a dash of multiverse theory and time traveling souls to taste!"

Which makes it a reboot. A retelling of an old story, with new events.

I'm spoiling basically everything in this chain of thought, but if it's accurate then OP's post is already answered with Endwalker.

We know Alph's desire is "no less than the salvation of this star."

We know Zodiark is without a core.

We know Psycho Subordinate wants to go full Kefka, and could potentially do that by piloting Zodark-- or by causing it to dissipate.

The only conclusion I can come to, taking the launch trailer into consideration, is Alphinaud could potentially sacrifice himself to be Zodiark's new core.

That said, I agree Y'shtola has played Princess Peach way too many times without consequence. Any "problems" she's had along the way haven't really hurt her-- magical sight has only made her stronger.

Other Scions have had similar nonsequences: Graha and Urianger come to mind; Thancred, Papalymo, and (ugh) Lyse are the only Scions that seems to have experienced direct loss.

The comparison to single player game and multi player is unrealistic. Single player games can offer more choice because a person's choice doesn't affect other players. So these comparisons are not realistic. This whole topic reeks of someone who just wants attention like the other posts they wrote what was it a week ago? Designed to stir controversy and troll for attention. In a RPG such as this you will not be the bad guy. I think the op is playing the wrong game if they are playing it at all. All of us who are commenting here are giving them the attention they want. Seriously, the op threatened to stalk people in his/her last thread and claimed to be a fairy. Come on man...

But what about the fairies?