Using Older End Game Content In a Better Way

I was looking at the design of Unreal Content and i was very disappointed the route they have chosen to use older content.

It's all temporary. Most new players will never get to have the full experience, let alone if you take a break because you are burnt on the game temporarily.

I consider it a very SLOPPEH design to take all these cool endgame fights and just make it simply make it only relevant for little bit.

The game has many expansions out and there is not reason why all this wide berth of content shouldn't be one of the games greatest strengths. Esp when the fights themselves are usually very cool with great music/aesthetics it's arguably some of the best content in the game outside of the story.

So here is my idea:

They tune all EX trials and savage fights to max level for current item level like normal unreal content.

They introduce a dyeable weapons and dyeable gear(not part of endgame gear prog. just aesthetics.) and a exclusive mounts for unreal content only.

Unreal tokens will be universally shared by all the fights making it so if you don't like a raid tier/primal you don't need to redo it over and over you just need to beat it once to unlock rewards at vendor.

Unreal tokens will be on a MONTHLY lockout and you beat any of the fights until you reach your limit. Once a single fight awards you for that month you will be not be able to obtain rewards a second time until the monthly reset.

Each fight will have it's own exclusive mount that guarantees to drop every clear, so every month you will have a 1/8 change of getting the mount.(or greater if play with peeps who already obtained it.)

For every player who hasn't cleared the fight yet you will receive extra unreal tokens that do not contribute towards monthly limit. If you have 4 or more in a party you receive an even bigger bonus.

The top 4 least cleared fights of last month's lockout will receive x2 bonuses for unreal tokens as well as boosting bonuses by x2 for players who never cleared that doesn't go towards your limit.

The least 4 of last month can't receive bonuses two months in a row so it will just do the next 4 least cleared fights above that in case of repeats.

Raids require you to make straight prog through each tier of 4 fights to unlock the next one however you will be able to choose any tier of any raid series.

So you can choose to make prog on final coil or omega sigmascape, but you must beat each fight in order to unlock the 2nd/3rd/etc. Each fight unreal tokens will go towards your monthly limit.

Once you beat a raid tier you will receive a bonus unreal tokens that will not count towards the limit. However you can only receive this bonus once a month from beating the 4/5thth fight in a raid tier.

Binding coil will turn into a gauntlet of all it's parts into one fight. Both binding/final coil will get the savage treatment with extra mechanics.

This system will allow square enix to use all its end game content in a horizontal system for endgame that will allow players to find more party finders for all end game content more easily, it will also incentivize players to help newer players learn by letting tokens to be earned that do not go towards its monthly cap.

This will make the end game raiding more diverse for newer/older players without stepping on current prog. toes since its just mounts/aesthetics.

Every expansion/overhaul patch will change how older fights are done since adding new abilities will change the way players approach fights. Players won't have to keep repeating fights they don't really care for since they will have to access to wide birth of content that goes to the same limit.

Thank you for reading!

I do think it's strange that the Unreal fights are temporary, but your "solution" (if I'm understanding right) is to be constantly retuning every endgame fight instead of just one every few months, and possibly rebuild the way the overall instance works to link fights together. That's a huge difference in work.

Everything in the Unreal fights exists in the game and can continue to be experienced, more or less, by playing the original trial synched. Players can already have the self-imposed challenge of trying to beat Coils sequentially without any special remaking. And those need an accessible story difficulty more than they need an Unreal.

Unreal should not be temporary. I do the old extremes synced in mentor roulette every day and let me tell ya it just isn't the same. I only did unreal Shiva, but man was it fun. I really enjoyed it, and it was far more threatening than Shiva ex in duty finder. They could reduce the ilvl sync of old extremes and that would help but it would also make it so that nobody can access the duty with high ilvls supporting them, which is not ideal.

Basically I think they should just make the unreal fights permanent fixtures in the game and slowly rebalance new unreal fights based on older extremes. Then you can do the regular extreme with higher ilvls or you can run the unreal version for fun and challenge.

What they should do, and also what would require the least effort on their part, is to instead just cycle the unreal fight weekly or biweekly, among the ones that they already did.

For instance, they already put the work for shiva and titan, why throw that work away and make it only leviathan for the next 4 or so months? Even if i like the fights they get old doing them nonstop for months.

The time taken to rebalance every raid and EX trial for Unreal then repeat the process every time the level cap is increased would be time taken away from developing new raid and trial content.

We've already got the ability to run the old content synced, and can even push it a step farther to minimum item level for a very close replica of what it was like at original release.

Personally, I'd rather have the time spent on new content. It's surprising that those of you complaining about running the same thing over and over are arguing that everyone should have to keep running the same thing over and over. We already did that content. Most of us don't want to be stuck in it forever.

1. Saying you run the content before or don't want to repeat it doesn't change whether this is a good idea or not. That's literally every current savage tier/primal tier and ultimate content for every expansion. The devs already do this.

2. The idea lets you have access to all end game content scaled up simultaneously so you don't need to run the same EXACT content every month with every patch/expansion adding more. Also for new players it would be ALOT of content to go through.

3. Saying its a waste of resources is insulting to anyone who wants the idea, the people who want the idea wouldn't consider it a waste of resources. Its a dumb argument.

4.Consider new players and people who haven't cleared before, with the massive influx of new players it makes zero sense to be against expanding unreal content to make to so there is more party finders. People need different reasons to raid not just 1 or 2, its much harder to find parties for older content so many players who want to run old content get demoralized by the lack of people running it. Imagine not being rewarded for roulettes because veterans players are sick of doing them.

5. If you only do one raid every few months this idea was never for you to begin with, end game raiders run raids every week.

6. You ALL should do more to foster the community and help new players do end game raiding instead of just worrying about yourselves. Complaining about repeating content is a self centered argument that shouldn't even be given a second thought by the dev team. If they had no reasons to repeat content then there wouldn't be enough player economy to do half the content in the game to beat it. Once again look at tome stones/roulettes.

7. No one will put the gun to your head and force you to play this content, it's all optional. If you have some good friends then no matter content you run you will have fun doing it. Some of these arguments makes it seem you miss the point of playing an online game the content itself isn't the only reason you play.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

3. Saying its a waste of resources is insulting to anyone who wants the idea, the people who want the idea wouldn't consider it a waste of resources. Its a dumb argument.

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It is a statement of fact that updating every fight every few months would take far more resources than updating one fight every few months.

There is only a finite amount of time and resources that can be put into the game. The benefit of spending so much extra time on it is unlikely to outweigh the cost.

And it's "a dumb argument" to use your words, to say that a thing should go ahead because not allowing it is an insult to people who want it. That logic could be applied to literally anything, no matter how obscure or impossible, or how few people are in favour of it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It is a statement of fact that updating every fight every few months would take far more resources than updating one fight every few months.

There is only a finite amount of time and resources that can be put into the game. The benefit of spending so much extra time on it is unlikely to outweigh the cost.

And it's "a dumb argument" to use your words, to say that a thing should go ahead because not allowing it is an insult to people who want it. That logic could be applied to literally anything, no matter how obscure or impossible, or how few people are in favour of it.

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I mean if you want to make non convincing arguments go ahead.

To make the argument that its a waste of resources for people who want it is insulting, it's not a waste for people who want it.

So since people are making such an insulting argument saying its a waste of resources i will insult back by accurately describing what it actually is.

Dumb.

Turn for a turn.

Square enix is already developing unreal content, for you to pretend that you know how the development process works and what kind of resources they have access to is just dishonest.

Especially for a multi-billion dollar company that could expand the team at any time ontop of the game having more players then every before.

You are saying because they would develop a system that is a perm. endgame that will last for the rest of the game's lifecycle is somehow getting in the way of a developing new content is absolutely something i can't even wrap my head around.

You just assume it will affect other parts of development as if the dev team would implement this without considering other parts of the game?

Are you just making shit up?

You think they are incompetent and would sacrifice the next expansions endgame or any of their other ideas just because they tune older fights to a higher level?

You think tuning old fights is anywhere near the work of developing a new fight?

It's super cringe when people talk about managing money on a multi-billionaire dollar corporation's behalf.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

You think tuning old fights is anywhere near the work of developing a new fight?

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No, I think tuning twenty old fights is more work than tuning one old fight. That is a mathematical fact.

And as I said before, "it's not a waste for the people who want it" is something that applies to every situation, no matter how obscure. Of course the people who want the thing will consider it to be not wasted effort. But that's equally true whether it's 9 out of 10 or whether it's 3 out of 1000. Therefore it's a statement that carries no weight in arguing that a thing should be done.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

No, I think tuning twenty old fights is more work than tuning one old fight. That is a mathematical fact.

And as I said before, "it's not a waste for the people who want it" is something that applies to every situation, no matter how obscure. Of course the people who want the thing will consider it to be not wasted effort. But that's equally true whether it's 9 out of 10 or whether it's 3 out of 1000. Therefore it's a statement that carries no weight in arguing that a thing should be done.

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You had to edit my comment to include 20 as if that was such a big difference?

You are arguing against something they are already doing.

My idea just expands it to a more perm. endgame instead of just temporary BS.


Maybe the multi-billionaire dollar corporation should use some of the newfound success as top dog mmo to expand the team and create a new system for scaling fights easily so it would use less resources in the long run.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to serve the interests of people who are actually interested in doing the fights(esp those who are new to the game, which is alot) instead of catering to people who are only doing raids...lets say.... once every few months.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Oh i see so you think flipping the numbers around on fights is the same as voice acting>concept art>new music>new mechanics>story script/lore>Arena design>boss design.

You also had to edit my comment to include 20 as if that was such a big difference?

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Would you like to point out where I said anything about making a new fight? You are completely misreading my argument.

And I didn't edit anything in your comment. I am echoing what you proposed in your introductory post – that "every expansion/overhaul patch [should] change how older fights are done". I said twenty arbitrarily but actually that would be more like a twenty per expansion (12 raids and about 8 trials) to adjust every time, instead of the current approach of one Unreal trial updating one old trial without creating any new resources.

Or are you under the false impression that Unreal trials are newly developed trials? Have you confused them with Eden?

They are just the old trials turned up to 80. The thing you are proposing, but with one fight instead of many.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Would you like to point out where I said anything about making a new fight? You are completely misreading my argument.

And I didn't edit anything in your comment. I am echoing what you proposed in your introductory post – that "every expansion/overhaul patch [should] change how older fights are done". I said twenty arbitrarily but actually that would be more like a twenty per expansion (12 raids and about 8 trials) to adjust every time, instead of the current approach of one Unreal trial updating one old trial without creating any new resources.

Or are you under the false impression that Unreal trials are newly developed trials? Have you confused them with Eden?

They are just the old trials turned up to 80. The thing you are proposing, but with one fight instead of many.

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Oh so you didn't read edited post. I made a mistake too, thought you said something different.

Either way, you are making a dumb argument on behalf of multi-billion dollar corporation.

They have never have been more successful than they are now and you are worried about money and resources?

Not only that, you are worried about tuning fights to a higher level being a serious drain on those resources?

I can't help but think you are trolling since you argument is so bad.

They well might be investing more money in the game as it becomes more successful, but that doesn't immediately mean that this specific issue is the thing that is worth putting that money into. There are a lot of parts of the game that need attention and investment, not just tweaking numbers (and doing the maths to decide which numbers) on a fight that is already done and working and completely playable in its current state, even if it isn't precisely the experience it was before.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

I can't help but think you are trolling since you argument is so bad.

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Likewise, but more because you seem to be looking for a fight and throw a lot of insults around.

I was intending to bow out of this argument anyway, but if you think I'm trolling then there's certainly no point in me continuing.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

They well might be investing more money in the game as it becomes more successful, but that doesn't immediately mean that this specific issue is the thing that is worth putting that money into. There are a lot of parts of the game that need attention and investment, not just tweaking numbers (and doing the maths to decide which numbers) on a fight that is already done and working and completely playable in its current state, even if it isn't precisely the experience it was before.




Likewise, but more because you seem to be looking for a fight and throw a lot of insults around.

I was intending to bow out of this argument anyway, but if you think I'm trolling then there's certainly no point in me continuing.

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Seems to me that you were looking for a fight when you made the insulting argument that an idea is a waste of resources.

My intelligence feels insulted. It's just NOT a good argument.

I don't agree with your opinion. It's a bad take.

It doesn't convince me that the idea is good or bad.

Sheesh.

Is it any wonder that they ignored 2 years of scholar feedback?

Every time there is any suggestion for something pro-endgame there is always pushback and negativity from people who have no interest in doing the content as if end game players aren't allowed to have anything.

There always seems to be toxicity towards any suggestion that changes the game in anyway.