Broil

I can't do it anymore. I'm done. I can't take two more years of [Broil]. Now at increased speed. I get to press [Broil] more. Faster. More times per pull, more times per encounter. Just [Broil] forever. Sometimes [Biolysis]. Do we even still have Ruin II? No, just [Broil]. Once, twice, three times. Count to twenty six. Now count to twenty four. [Broil]
[Broil II]
[Broil III]
[Broilitude]
[Broil IV the broiltening]

How many [Broil] do I get to fit in betwen Biolysis?

At least I can go mildly faster whenever I [Broil]

You should be glad they solved your movement issues! Now you have the distinguished privilege of pressing the 1 key 20 more times in an encounter because you don't have to drop casts entirely just to move.

We heard you like complexity, but anything more than [Broil] is too scary for new players. Eat it, veteran healers. We don't care what you think.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I can't do it anymore. I'm done. I can't take two more years of [Broil]. Now at increased speed. I get to press [Broil] more. Faster. More times per pull, more times per encounter. Just [Broil] forever. Sometimes [Biolysis]. Do we even still have Ruin II? No, just [Broil]. Once, twice, three times. Count to twenty six. Now count to twenty four. [Broil]
[Broil II]
[Broil III]
[Broilitude]
[Broil IV the broiltening]

How many [Broil] do I get to fit in betwen Biolysis?

At least I can go mildly faster whenever I [Broil]

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Play something else. Do what other people do and take a darn break if you're getting burnt out on something.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Play something else. Do what other people do and take a darn break if you're getting burnt out on something.

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Ah yes. Finding pressing one button a gajillion times over and over and over and over again boring is a problem with the player, not hideous class design.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Ah yes. Finding pressing one button a gajillion times over and over and over and over again boring is a problem with the player, not hideous class design.

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Oh wow. you mean to tell me that all of those buttons I weave don't exist at all? all those buttons i can now fluidly tuck between every Broil cast are just not there whatsoever? If a game is not fun for you dont play it. All you're doing is making yourself miserable.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Oh wow. you mean to tell me that all of those buttons I weave don't exist at all? all those buttons i can now fluidly tuck between every Broil cast are just not there whatsoever? If a game is not fun for you dont play it. All you're doing is making yourself miserable.

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Hey, you get to weave energy drain in there sometimes. That is if they haven't removed it. Hopefully they increase the need for healing this exp. Oh no, where did I hear that before?

The Scholar showcase left me with so many questions. The obvious answer is that we will be using Broil more than ever and weaving with it too now. I prefered Ruin 2 becuase it gave me more time to target swap on controller for a single weave even if it was an inefficient tool to do so and also more time to move freely. But where oh where was Seraph and Consolation? Dissipation and Energy Drain weren't used. No Fey Union or Fey Covenant or Fey Illumination happened. No Aertherflow was spent and no Fey Guage was gained or lost. No Excogitation and no Lustrate. Am I the only one wondering how the job action preview was so utterly lacking in substance? We could be getting the most bare bones Scholar ever if the preview was any indication.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

The Scholar showcase left me with so many questions. The obvious answer is that we will be using Broil more than ever and weaving with it too now. I prefered Ruin 2 becuase it gave me more time to target swap on controller for a single weave even if it was an inefficient tool to do so and also more time to move freely. But where oh where was Seraph and Consolation? Dissipation and Energy Drain weren't used. No Fey Union or Fey Covenant or Fey Illumination happened. No Aertherflow was spent and no Fey Guage was gained or lost. No Excogitation and no Lustrate. Am I the only one wondering how the job action preview was so utterly lacking in substance? We could be getting the most bare bones Scholar ever if the preview was any indication.

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Scholar had the shortest showcase. 38 seconds. Fey Blessing didn't use Fey gauge, so it's now a cost free CD I assume. Meaning Fey Union is back to being the only Fey gauge spender.

In the slide show they said SCH gets a strong Buff. Maybe Fey Union has been repurposed to a single target buff. Who knows.

Scholar having access to a new Sprint-Shield, Sacred Soil, and Fey Illumination and GCD Shielding seems like a ton of ways to mitigate damage. I hope all of that is useful in the new expansion and not just unnecessary busywork.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Scholar having access to a new Sprint-Shield, Sacred Soil, and Fey Illumination and GCD Shielding seems like a ton of ways to mitigate damage. I hope all of that is useful in the new expansion and not just unnecessary busywork.

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There's the possibility that the sprint thing is a replacement for sacred soil.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

There's the possibility that the sprint thing is a replacement for sacred soil.

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Oh they are removing one of the most iconic SCH abilities? Why.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Oh wow. you mean to tell me that all of those buttons I weave don't exist at all? all those buttons i can now fluidly tuck between every Broil cast are just not there whatsoever? If a game is not fun for you dont play it. All you're doing is making yourself miserable.

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Yeah sure, occasionally pressing cooldowns once every 20 seconds to a minute is riveting. Tell me another one.

This game is fun. When you play a DPS. Because unlike healers, some of them actually have a gameplay loop designed into them. One that doesn't involve casting one spell over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

FFXIV healer design is taking all of the richness of RPG history you could pull from and reducing it to Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Cure! Magic Missile, Magic Missile...

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Oh they are removing one of the most iconic SCH abilities? Why.

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Just saying it's possible. They showed earthly star so we know that still exists. They didn't show asylum so the new WHM thing could be a reworked asylum, or reworked plenary indulgence since it seems like it does the same sort of thing, or maybe it's replacing both. And for SCH they didn't show sacred soil and introduced a new thing that mitigates so it could be a rework. They've done that sort of thing before with stoneskin/divine benison.

Maybe they saw all the memes about party members not wanting to stand in ground targeted circles and decided to solve that problem.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Oh they are removing one of the most iconic SCH abilities? Why.

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To give it to Sage. Which currently has a Sacred Soil copy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Yeah sure, occasionally pressing cooldowns once every 20 seconds to a minute is riveting. Tell me another one.

This game is fun. When you play a DPS. Because unlike healers, some of them actually have a gameplay loop designed into them. One that doesn't involve casting one spell over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

FFXIV healer design is taking all of the richness of RPG history you could pull from and reducing it to Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Cure! Magic Missile, Magic Missile...

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Its always this argument. Want to not be bored dpsing as a healer? Play a DPS.

This argument needs to die already.

IF YOU MAKE HEALING DOWNTIME PREVALENT; MAKE THE SKILLS WE USE TO FILL SAID DOWNTIME MORE INTERESTING. THAT IS IT. NOBODY SAID ANTYHING ABOUT HAVING BIGGER NUMBERS. WE DIDN'T EVEN SAY WE WANTED DPS SKILLS EXPLICITLY. JUST SOMETHING. SOMETHING MORE THAN USING THE SAME GODDAM SPELL THIRTEEN TIMES IN A ROW. PLEASE. SOMETHING THAT CAN ALWAYS HELP THE PARTY. NOT SOME SITUATIONAL STUFF THAT WE GET TO USE ONLY WHEN X OR Y HAPPENS ONCE IN A BLUE MOON. SOMETHING THAT IS ALWAYS USEFUL.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I can't do it anymore. I'm done. I can't take two more years of [Broil]. Now at increased speed. I get to press [Broil] more. Faster. More times per pull, more times per encounter. Just [Broil] forever. Sometimes [Biolysis]. Do we even still have Ruin II? No, just [Broil]. Once, twice, three times. Count to twenty six. Now count to twenty four. [Broil]
[Broil II]
[Broil III]
[Broilitude]
[Broil IV the broiltening]

How many [Broil] do I get to fit in betwen Biolysis?

At least I can go mildly faster whenever I [Broil]

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this is why I went to FFXI, at least I'm not spamming one button as a healer and I have access to allot of spells, especially I can hit shit with my club and do a weaponskill or debuff..


FFXIV sch is so embarrassing

I know! make it like FFXI SCH and let it have access to black and white magics and control the weather too?

ohh..is that to complicated for the xiv devs?

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

ohh..is that to complicated for the xiv devs?

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Abso-fucking-lutely

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Yeah sure, occasionally pressing cooldowns once every 20 seconds to a minute is riveting. Tell me another one.

This game is fun. When you play a DPS. Because unlike healers, some of them actually have a gameplay loop designed into them. One that doesn't involve casting one spell over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

FFXIV healer design is taking all of the richness of RPG history you could pull from and reducing it to Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Cure! Magic Missile, Magic Missile...

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What is fun is a matter of perspective. So yes. I am saying it will still be fun. Everything sch is getting is an improvement over 5.0. So while it isnt the improvement YOU personally wanted. It's still improving. I'm really excited myself because the changes they did mention will make the gameplay flow of scholar far more smoother. We have our lossless healing back because of the additional weave space.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

In the slide show they said SCH gets a strong Buff. Maybe Fey Union has been repurposed to a single target buff. Who knows.

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Well, whatever the Speed bonus is called, it is technically a BUFF with maybe STRONG benefits, such as making Monks running out out of TP ...

oh wait, wrong timeline.


Jokes aside, From the way i see it, the only actual solution for getting SCH fixed for good, or at least having the chance for it, is to completely stop playing it, so that it gets the same attention which monk got when they announced arround 5.4 or so, that barely anyone plays the latter.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

What is fun is a matter of perspective. So yes. I am saying it will still be fun. Everything sch is getting is an improvement over 5.0. So while it isnt the improvement YOU personally wanted. It's still improving. I'm really excited myself because the changes they did mention will make the gameplay flow of scholar far more smoother. We have our lossless healing back because of the additional weave space.

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So we agree, fun isn't a metric as it is "subjective". With Broil casts reduced to 1.5 it is now easier to weave. It also means you will be casting Broil even more. Optimization made even more accessible. Repetition made more prevalent.

So we have a lower skill floor.

And attached to it a lower skill ceiling.

Wether that is a good or bad trade or generally good or bad design is also subjective. I guess some people couldn't care less about the lowering of the skill ceiling. Other people might take it as job design being dragged down to the lowest common denominator.

All matter of perspective I suppose.

I know its just another random opinion, but I think it's fine the way they have scholar right now. I mean, sure, the dps options are boring and limited. But they are trying to make this game appeal to a wide variety of players. And maybe, some people struggle fitting dps in between healing. Many first time gamers start out as healers because their significant other tries to simplify it for them by telling them to just make sure the green bars dont go down.

Now as a big lover of SCH, I get the desire for more interesting damage options. But I wouldn't so quickly forget about the minority of players that struggle with rotations. They should have a class that feels easier to play.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nucempow

I know its just another random opinion, but I think it's fine the way they have scholar right now. I mean, sure, the dps options are boring and limited. But they are trying to make this game appeal to a wide variety of players. And maybe, some people struggle fitting dps in between healing. Many first time gamers start out as healers because their significant other tries to simplify it for them by telling them to just make sure the green bars dont go down.

Now as a big lover of SCH, I get the desire for more interesting damage options. But I wouldn't so quickly forget about the minority of players that struggle with rotations. They should have a class that feels easier to play.:)

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A class that's easier to play than the brain deadness of Healers now? I.... that's not possible.

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Originally Posted by Nucempow

They should have a class that feels easier to play.:)

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Thats already what they say about WHM, and its bad design either way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

So we agree, fun isn't a metric as it is "subjective". With Broil casts reduced to 1.5 it is now easier to weave. It also means you will be casting Broil even more. Optimization made even more accessible. Repetition made more prevalent.

So we have a lower skill floor.

And attached to it a lower skill ceiling.

Wether that is a good or bad trade or generally good or bad design is also subjective. I guess some people couldn't care less about the lowering of the skill ceiling. Other people might take it as job design being dragged down to the lowest common denominator.

All matter of perspective I suppose.

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That is why this thread and many like it are ultimately futile. The devs put their foot down on how they want to do things going forward and their design philosophy and if you don't like it move on. This is all going to be perspectives and subjectivity at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

What is fun is a matter of perspective. So yes. I am saying it will still be fun. Everything sch is getting is an improvement over 5.0. So while it isnt the improvement YOU personally wanted. It's still improving. I'm really excited myself because the changes they did mention will make the gameplay flow of scholar far more smoother. We have our lossless healing back because of the additional weave space.

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Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare

Is boring. To anyone with functioning brain cells. How the devs, or any players for that matter, find that gameplay loop acceptable is wild to me.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare

Is boring. To anyone with functioning brain cells. How the devs, or any players for that matter, find that gameplay loop acceptable is wild to me.

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I don't know... I find it really fun and engaging when my 70% of my gameplay can be handled by a drinking bird.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare

Is boring. To anyone with functioning brain cells. How the devs, or any players for that matter, find that gameplay loop acceptable is wild to me.

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Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Tetra Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Divine Benison Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Assize Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Afflatus Solace... Dia... Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Assize Glare Glare Glare Glare Tetra? Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare.

If you stopped reading that halfway through, you subconsciously think healers are boring and unwilling to admit it out of pride.

I'm hopeful that the faster cast broil will help recapture the feel of using fairy GCDs mid cast in the past. That should eliminate then feeling disruptive to the flow of your GCD at least.

If nothing else, it'll make things flow smoother than they do at the moment.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Tetra Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Divine Benison Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Assize Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Afflatus Solace... Dia... Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Assize Glare Glare Glare Glare Tetra? Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare.

If you stopped reading that halfway through, you subconsciously think healers are boring and unwilling to admit it out of pride.

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This could be a fun game to play with people who think healers are great as-is and "healers should heal." Just type out a rotation exactly as FFLogs recorded it, and start a timer. See how long it takes for them to find a healing spell in the cacophony of Glares.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

That is why this thread and many like it are ultimately futile. The devs put their foot down on how they want to do things going forward and their design philosophy and if you don't like it move on. This is all going to be perspectives and subjectivity at the end of the day.

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I guess whining is indeed futile. Devs have ignored us before, and probably will in the future.


I just don't want to shut up and take it. I don't want my silence to be taken as an admission that I am okay with these changes or this two year long situation already. I started posting here back in ShB. I was skeptical about the gutting of our kits back in 5.0. I thought, maybe it could have worked, granted the healing requirements were brought up.

Then the media tour happened and we did not see anything in terms of more damage. If anything it looked like healing downtime was going to be more prevalent.

I am seeing the devs make the same mistake twice. And I really, really don't like that.

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Originally Posted by Nucempow

I know its just another random opinion, but I think it's fine the way they have scholar right now. I mean, sure, the dps options are boring and limited. But they are trying to make this game appeal to a wide variety of players. And maybe, some people struggle fitting dps in between healing. Many first time gamers start out as healers because their significant other tries to simplify it for them by telling them to just make sure the green bars dont go down.

Now as a big lover of SCH, I get the desire for more interesting damage options. But I wouldn't so quickly forget about the minority of players that struggle with rotations. They should have a class that feels easier to play.:)

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Would DPS players accept that. Your class gets dumbed down to the point you get only three buttons and you weave in three other buttons.

Did MCH just accept the new design of their 1.2.3 class?
Did MNK just accept the dumbing down of their class? They got a rework.
Did SMN just accepr the garbled mess of their class? They had the numbers, it worked just fine right?

Why is dumbing down a class for amthe sake of accessibility only justified with healers? Why do they have to lower the skill floor and the skill ceiling? Button Bloat? You have still have passives and interesting interactions you could design between existing abilities.

If you genuinely want to know if there's a double standard, ask a DPS player how they feel when they get Sastasha in leveling roulette.

Sucks to only press 2-3 buttons at level 18 right? Try one button at level 80.

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Originally Posted by Boizinho

If you genuinely want to know if there's a double standard, ask a DPS player how they feel when they get Sastasha in leveling roulette.

Sucks to only press 2-3 buttons at level 18 right? Try one button at level 80.

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Make them play like a dragoon before level 40, haha. Single-target those mobs! That's all you deserve!

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Originally Posted by EmpyreanHelios

Make them play like a dragoon before level 40, haha. Single-target those mobs! That's all you deserve!

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It's funny, because players DO complain about Dragoon having no AoE except one button for like 20 plus levels, but then turn around and say it's completely acceptable for Healers.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Tetra Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Divine Benison Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Assize Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Afflatus Solace... Dia... Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Assize Glare Glare Glare Glare Tetra? Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare.

If you stopped reading that halfway through, you subconsciously think healers are boring and unwilling to admit it out of pride.

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Sounds like you need to run harder content or you need to stop letting the other healer do all the healing.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Oh wow. you mean to tell me that all of those buttons I weave don't exist at all? all those buttons i can now fluidly tuck between every Broil cast are just not there whatsoever? If a game is not fun for you dont play it. All you're doing is making yourself miserable.

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I’d like to point out that content isn’t hard enough to purely heal like that. I run 60s and don’t even have to heal cuz of how undertuned everything is. SHB dungeons being very very light on mechanics Imagine the stat squish buff being too potent and your just spamming 1 attack like a mch all day. Even going to savages it STILL isn’t hard enough to be purely healing like this. The content doesn’t reflect the kit at all

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Originally Posted by Karthunk

Sounds like you need to run harder content or you need to stop letting the other healer do all the healing.

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I've run Savages, I've run Extreme's, I've healed on every single Job for 8 fucking years. Only one healer is needed in most content, two healers is actually pointless once gearing hits a certain score. Healing in Savage really isn't that difficult, and consists really of just subsisting of of oGCD's.

You know NOTHING, and your ignorant statement shows it.

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Originally Posted by Karthunk

Sounds like you need to run harder content or you need to stop letting the other healer do all the healing.

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2 things.

1. That is what you do in savage and even in Ultimate difficulty there is no higher end content that stops that monotonous borefest of a healer downtime.

2. It shouldn't be acceptable in any piece of content to be forced(note forced and not willing to because new/uncomfortable etc) into that level of monotony.


Would any other role just accept in solo content they should be doing:
-Snap Punch x150 with a sprinkle of Tornado kick
-Fire IV with no Xeno/Blizzard just Five IV with Thunder III
-Pld reverting back to ARR and only having 1-2 this time instead of 1-2-3 over and over and over and over again(Plds complained back then a 1-2-3 combo was boring to spam seems SE thought dumbing it down further but stick it on healers rather than a tank and people be ok with with it, we are not)

Can you imagine how boring it would be to play this design from level 1 onward? Goood grief, I'd quit the game to be honest. This is the worst designed healing job/class I've seen in any game.

It definitely makes solo duties seem sadly hilarious.
"Wow you're such a peerless warrior in combat. It's really amazing watching you do what nobody else can!"

>Enters combat with Zenos or whoever
>Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil

Gosh I wish I could teach my masterful techniques to you guys, but it would take you decades to learn such skillful combat powers.