DPS who pull mobs

Please use Arm's Lentgh if you can
Mine is probably on CD

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

Please use Arm's Lentgh if you can
Mine is probably on CD

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Or you can grab aggro from those dps with 1 button press instead.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

Please use Arm's Lentgh if you can
Mine is probably on CD

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Can somebody sponsor that? Me and the heals are on the way to grab'em but if the dps don't survive by the time I get there.../shrug

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Or you can grab aggro from those dps with 1 button press instead.

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This ain't about the aggro. Arm's Length applies a slow. If you're gonna run ahead of the tank and make their job slightly harder, might as well reciprocate by making all the mobs hit half as much for 10 seconds.

So much this. I think the vast majority of veteran tanks no longer cares who pulls in a dungeon anymore because they're all AOE facerolls anyways. But if a melee DPS wants to pull, then getting an extra use of Arms Length is quite good.

It's surprising though how many tanks subconsciously think Arms Length is only good for the knockback resistance. Personally I love the Slow debuff popping up from every mob, it reminds me of back then when Flash was still a thing. :3

Please move video up to 0:49, please. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Or you can grab aggro from those dps with 1 button press instead.

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As someone who actually really enjoys the tanking role, I've never been spiteful enough to watch a party member die

I'd just love to wait a sec for a incoming mass slow debuff
DPS don't start with a total of 1 HP for a reason after all

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

As someone who actually really enjoys the tanking role, I've never been spiteful enough to watch a party member die

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Im the opposite.
If Im suppose to be the tank, but the DPS decides they wanna be tank...Im taking off my stance and gonna let them have at it.
If they die...thats what happens when you decide your gonna overstep and take my job XD

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

As someone who actually really enjoys the tanking role, I've never been spiteful enough to watch a party member die

I'd just love to wait a sec for a incoming mass slow debuff
DPS don't start with a total of 1 HP for a reason after all

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You can live like that but you're ultimately just encouraging/enabling bad behavior by just letting them do your job. If they wanna pull mobs so bad they can pick up a tank class themselves. XD

Prime GCBTW examples in the replies

Just grab the aggro and move on, don't waste people's time. Your job in dungeons isn't necessarily to pull it's to grab and hold the aggro.

You guys let dps run ahead of you?

Most of the time it's not a big deal but I always make a mental note that the players who do this are just arseholes.

And I wouldn't give them comms even if someone were to put a gun on my head to do it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Im the opposite.
If Im suppose to be the tank, but the DPS decides they wanna be tank...Im taking off my stance and gonna let them have at it.
If they die...thats what happens when you decide your gonna overstep and take my job XD

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First off, intentionally being bad at your role does not help you at all. Second of all...

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Originally Posted by Reinha

You guys let dps run ahead of you?

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If a dps is ahead of you enough to pull forward, you're going too slow, sorry not sorry. <3

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Im the opposite.
If Im suppose to be the tank, but the DPS decides they wanna be tank...Im taking off my stance and gonna let them have at it.
If they die...thats what happens when you decide your gonna overstep and take my job XD

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More power to you, play how you want to play

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

You can live like that but you're ultimately just encouraging/enabling bad behavior by just letting them do your job. If they wanna pull mobs so bad they can pick up a tank class themselves. XD

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I'm a pragmatist - I'd rather not intentionally slow down a run to try and teach someone a lesson of sorts

I'm not sure if doing so would make an impact anyways, I don't know if many people feel that strongly one way or the other

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Im the opposite.
If Im suppose to be the tank, but the DPS decides they wanna be tank...Im taking off my stance and gonna let them have at it.
If they die...thats what happens when you decide your gonna overstep and take my job XD

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It's not a big deal. At least, not as big of a deal as intentionally griefing for a petty grievance. I mean, I pull most of my dungeons on healer and all you'd really do by turning off stance is make me use a couple gcd's to live (which, more of a cut to dungeon mobs hitting for basically nothing while being made out of paper). It's not really the "Learned Your Lesson?" moment you think it is.

I never encountered a DPS pulling for me because there's usually nothing left to pull in the first place, ~but~ if a DPS who has access to Arm's Length does pull I mean proccing that slow is just bein a pal and I'll comm you for it B)

This is why wall pulls are sexy.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

I never encountered a DPS pulling for me because there's usually nothing left to pull in the first place, ~but~ if a DPS who has access to Arm's Length does pull I mean proccing that slow is just bein a pal and I'll comm you for it B)

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Personally I don't see it in dungeons unless the tank is new/learning or going slow in general. It's also usually a DPS that has 1+ tanks maxed and I guess still wants to control the party. I can get wanting things to go quicker but at the end of the day, it should be up to the tank to control the flow. It's the same as pulling too much for a newbie healer. Like God forbid you get thrown into a party with a new tank and healer, with a DPS trying to play budget tank.

DPS usually can't run ahead of you if you use Sprint out of battles to travel to each mob pack and pull everything without stopping.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

It's surprising though how many tanks subconsciously think Arms Length is only good for the knockback resistance. Personally I love the Slow debuff popping up from every mob, it reminds me of back then when Flash was still a thing. :3

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It's surprising how many tanks only use Arm's Length for mitigation because that's the only mitigation people teach them about these days.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Personally I don't see it in dungeons unless the tank is new/learning or going slow in general. It's also usually a DPS that has 1+ tanks maxed and I guess still wants to control the party. I can get wanting things to go quicker but at the end of the day, it should be up to the tank to control the flow. It's the same as pulling too much for a newbie healer. Like God forbid you get thrown into a party with a new tank and healer, with a DPS trying to play budget tank.

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Ultimately, it's a video game. I was taught how to properly tank dungeons by a SCH who told me in Sirensong Sea during early StB to "pull everything, push a cool down, and if you die it's on me." I was definitely new, and in a team oriented game playing to learn what'll be expected of you in future teams is an important way to learn how to perform in a role. Since, frankly, any job in this game can tank single pulls. You don't learn anything doing that. Healers who are new, should learn how to heal a tank doing a big pull (and I mean, especially with WAR at endgame, you basically don't need to heal them if they know what they're doing). OGCDs + GCDs if required are often going to be plenty and, if you're spamming Benefic II until you're out of MP and the tank drops dead with all your other tools expended, odds are either they screwed up for lacking mitigation to help the healer spread out their tools, or the DPS aren't doing something correct.

Will you wipe? Yeah, when you learn things you usually make a dog's breakfast of it until you get it down. That's part of learning. If someone blows up for you for a mistake when learning, kick em. But someone blowing up for expecting perfection, or someone else refusing to cooperate with the team at the baseline expectation of play down the line, are both kick-worthy things.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

I was taught how to properly tank dungeons by a SCH who told me in Sirensong Sea during early StB to "pull everything, push a cool down, and if you die it's on me."

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You were taught wrong for general play.. you were taught what that healer wanted which is correct.. if your a tank ask your healer what they want.. if they say nothing or whatever pull however you feel..

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

You were taught wrong for general play.. you were taught what that healer wanted which is correct.. if your a tank ask your healer what they want.. if they say nothing or whatever pull however you feel..

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"You were taught wrong which is correct"
So was he/she taught the wrong or right thing in the end?

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

You were taught wrong for general play.. you were taught what that healer wanted which is correct.. if your a tank ask your healer what they want.. if they say nothing or whatever pull however you feel..

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Pulling wall to wall in endgame dungeons is a base expectation. If you're not doing that, at that point in time, you're basically griefing. Because you certainly aren't tanking.

I don't need to ask a healer if they're cool with big pulls in Matoya's or Hero's. Why? Because they could literally be a third DPS and I'll be fine. It doesn't require high level play to do this, either. Just base knowledge of what you're doing. Which you learn by being taught, ideally, as a new player how to do that early on. Which is, again, why I tell new players to do a large pull and rotate through their cooldowns to extend the protection they provide for you. Or why I'll request a DPS who is only doing single target in an AoE pull, to AoE. Or why standing around on WHM only waiting to push "Cure II" is a hindrance to your party, because Holy stuns and essentially provides Hallowed Ground-level of mitigation since nothing can take any actions for a duration while you start doing it.

To intentionally slow down a run because someone doesn't want to really participate in the content isn't a playstyle. This is a team game, if you don't want to be part of a team, then run with trusts because AI teammates have no cares left to give.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

DPS usually can't run ahead of you if you use Sprint out of battles to travel to each mob pack and pull everything without stopping.

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I pull depending on the party. Also, if you run some leveling roulette you'll run into situations where pulling w2w simply has no point.

In any case, "don't let dps run in front of you" isn't always possible, or even worth the trouble. So what if the DPS runs into a pack half a second faster? Even in level-cap dungeons, I'm sure you've also ran into DPS who are already positioned at the far front to dash. It's a waste of time to argue whether a tank is always going to be able to keep ahead of the DPS. And even if you can, there's really no point to always pull to the actual wall.

I mean I main an RDM, and I can tell you I will be able to outrun any tank in a dungeon unless that tank literally pulls mobs right up to the wall that cuts off access. But is there a point for a tank to do that all the time? Does that mean now the tank isn't good enough, isn't fast enough? No. It's just because I, being an RDM, has the freedom and mobility to pre-position, and a headstart is going to guarantee that I outrun a tank. And we haven't even considered things like NINs and DRGs who can jump forward out of combat.

Let's not turn this into a discussion of "the right way to tank". Just focus on what is essentially a PSA: if you are playing a melee DPS, and you happen to end up pulling, whether intentional or by accident, use that Arm's Length.

dps need to learn some patience and wait 2 seconds for the tank to pull, if dps wanted to tank they shoulda que'd up as a tank. if someone runs ahead of me and pulls then i let them tank it

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

dps need to learn some patience and wait 2 seconds for the tank to pull, if dps wanted to tank they shoulda que'd up as a tank. if someone runs ahead of me and pulls then i let them tank it

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It all depends on the content. If you're in raids, then yes, DPS should be patient, if it's just dungeons, tank should just be faster.

And I was expecting something like " You pull it you deal with it".;)

I'm still getting back into the game after returning but DPS pulling tends to only be an issue in levelling roulettes, from recent experience and what I can remember as a main tank before I quit. During leveling I would sometimes slightly delay a pull to allow cooldowns to be ready or because the healer didn't quite look ready. By the time you're running expert roulette in high level gear it's usually a moot point but when the W2W mentality filters down to leveling situations with inexperienced healers or tanks it's a recipe for disaster.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Even in level-cap dungeons, I'm sure you've also ran into DPS who are already positioned at the far front to dash. It's a waste of time to argue whether a tank is always going to be able to keep ahead of the DPS.

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I've never had DPS out-pace me. Usually they are all far in the distance from me struggling to catch up.

It depends a lot on loading time though, because if you have an SSD you will load immediately into the next area and be able to run ahead of those loading slower.

I've been lucky and no DPS pulling ahead, my GF on the other hand had it happen the first dungeon she was trying to tank. Just trying to learn the basic mechanics, positioning, popping CDs; and the two chuckleheads kept at it, even when she said she was new to tanking and trying to comfortable with it.

As for me; I won't wall-to-wall unless I'm comfortable with the content I'm doing it in. I haven't run that particular dungeon enough to know the best places and timings to pause my gatherings so I can catch a heal, at most you'll get 2-3 groups that I can see clumped up. I'd rather be slightly slower and know we'll get it all done rather than accidently TPKing the party because I didn't have my cooldowns spread comfortably and didn't pause in the right places for a healer to hit me with a heal midgathering.

Had this tank with 510ilvl gear only pulling 3 mobs at the time in Stone Vigil. I was dps and I died for pulling extra pack. Reason? I was told in German that I was not the tank. I replied OK and gave my commendation to the other dps.

The end

"You pull you tank"
"If you wanted to tank, you should've queued as tank"

These are the catchphrases of weaklings.

A tank is not a leader of the party nor are they holier than any other party member. This is a team game and a tank failing to pickup and hold aggro is a failure of a tank. If you are unable to realize that picking up more adds supplements everyone else doing more damage to the dungeon as a whole, essentially your job and only value to the party, then you are the bad player. There are other ways for DPS/Healers to communicate they want to pull more but DPS/Healer pulling is the easiest tell. If the party finds out they can't handle it, then they will be sensible and not pull anymore. TPK is nothing. Wiping is nothing. You lose virtually only 30 seconds to test and see if you can multi pull or not, but you would lose 5-10 minutes on the entire dungeon run by not even attempting to multi-pull.

Tanks are not special and being arrogant enough to think that you deserve control of the party because the role as a whole is unpopular is how you stay a bad tank.

In duty finder with randoms, I tend to take a flexible approach. If I'm in a group that wants to GOGOGO I'm generally fine with that. If I'm tanking for a healer who's less sure of themselves I don't mind not doing wall to wall. I have a macro I hit at the start of dungeons to ask the healer what size of pulls they prefer. Usually that answer is either 'go big' or 'I don't care.' But sometimes I get a healer that isn't comfortable with wall to wall pulls and I'm fine with that.

If I was going to insist on a specific playstyle I'd form a premade party before going in.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Im the opposite.
If Im suppose to be the tank, but the DPS decides they wanna be tank...Im taking off my stance and gonna let them have at it.
If they die...thats what happens when you decide your gonna overstep and take my job XD

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Ah, nothing like being a petty tank.

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Originally Posted by Delis

Ah, nothing like being a petty tank.

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In Classic WoW this works hah

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It depends a lot on loading time though, because if you have an SSD you will load immediately into the next area and be able to run ahead of those loading slower.

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Not talking about load time. I'm talking about ranged DPS re-positioning themselves during combat towards the exit side of the encounter, so when the fight finishes, and whatever obstacle preventing movement is removed, the DPS has a headstart simply due to the positioning.

Generally speaking it's trivial for ranged DPS players to outrun a tank if they wanted. Heck I do it all the time and do zigzags to gradually put myself behind the tank. It's my own personal mini-game when playing SAM for example to end the fight with a back-jump towards the exit side.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

In Classic WoW this works hah

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Nah in classic WoW if your tank does not pull big most capable people will just leave and form an AoE farm group with mages.

In classic if your tank is not pulling their weight you just bouch cause good dps esp ones with AoE have more value then a tank.

That tanking mindset really only works with under geared groups or ones without AoE. Though with changes to how AoE has cap in TBC expect for consternation and the left over effect from the warlock aoe prot pally will have a higher value placed on them cause in general their AoE damage and survivability is insane for leveling content and large pulls.

In PUGs, I don't pull mobs and I don't stand in AOEs. Yes, there are times when doing those things would be more efficient, but with people you don't know, they often come across as rude or bad gameplay. With an FC group, go HAM.

There's a way to be a person; this doesn't have to be dramatic or complicated.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Pulling wall to wall in endgame dungeons is a base expectation. If you're not doing that, at that point in time, you're basically griefing. Because you certainly aren't tanking.

....lTo intentionally slow down a run because someone doesn't want to really participate in the content isn't a playstyle. This is a team game, if you don't want to be part of a team, then run with trusts because AI teammates have no cares left to give.

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I have played this game from the beta and have to disagree. This whole wall to wall pull is a not a given nor was it intended. In fact, when players first began finding ways of pushing packs further, SE put in gates and boundaries so that packs and trash had to handled. So to say that if you not doing this a certain way, then you are griefing is just baloney. There are plenty of reasons for doing pack and wall to wall. It is a team game and that does not work for everyone.

On the subject of who pulls, if everyone did their own job then the dungeon would be smooth regardless. DPS should not pull mobs that is a tank’s job.

For the record, I do not play a tank and I do not mind big pulls as a healer or as a DPS. I do mind when people do not play their roles.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Not talking about load time. I'm talking about ranged DPS re-positioning themselves during combat towards the exit side of the encounter, so when the fight finishes, and whatever obstacle preventing movement is removed, the DPS has a headstart simply due to the positioning.

Generally speaking it's trivial for ranged DPS players to outrun a tank if they wanted. Heck I do it all the time and do zigzags to gradually put myself behind the tank. It's my own personal mini-game when playing SAM for example to end the fight with a back-jump towards the exit side.

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Depends on the specific pull but if the tank is standing literally on the wall (hence the name "wall to wall pull") you're not pre positioning ahead of them. Also if you and another player are in lock step or you're a bit ahead of them on your client, chances are they're ahead of you per the server due to the 200ms built in delay.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Nah in classic WoW if your tank does not pull big most capable people will just leave and form an AoE farm group with mages.

In classic if your tank is not pulling their weight you just bouch cause good dps esp ones with AoE have more value then a tank.

That tanking mindset really only works with under geared groups or ones without AoE. Though with changes to how AoE has cap in TBC expect for consternation and the left over effect from the warlock aoe prot pally will have a higher value placed on them cause in general their AoE damage and survivability is insane for leveling content and large pulls.

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Well I'm talking in general + leveling. Not metaslaving