Mentor Requirements

So, I been looking for a place to put this and hope someone would give alittle feedback as well. The increase of toxicity from new mentors arriving due to the Crafting Mentor Requirements has been a thing the last month. So I was hoping to put some thoughts on updated requirements I would hope SE would take into consideration going into 6.0 content.

First off, as stated the current requirements to become a Crafting mentor is as follows:

Trade Mentor Requirements
-Gather or catch 300 collectibles
-Craft 100 collectibles
-Reach level 80 in any Disciple of the Hand
-Reach level 80 in any Disciple of the Land

This is way low and does not consume much time to get much knowledge to become a mentor in the Trade/Craft side I feel.

The possible solution would be to increase the requirements and to have a quota as well. Such would be my recommendation:

Trade Mentor Requirements
Gather or catch 2000 collectibles
Craft 1500 collectibles
Reach level 80 in any Disciple of the Hand
Reach level 80 in any Disciple of the Land

The addition I would like to see to increase the economy of the XIV base would also have a quota turn in as a weekly thing on where the marketplace is lacking.

An example would be:
- Craft 30 level 40 pieces of equipment

This would raise the marketboard on its supply as well as give Crafting mentors a higher difficulty to obtain just like the PvE / Battle mentors got recently.


As that is stated, Battle Mentors / PvE experts would also need to receive a change.

The Current PvE Mentor requirements is as follows:
Complete 1,500 dungeons, raids, or trials
Receive 1,000 player commendations
Complete any level 80 tank role quest
Complete any level 80 healer role quest
Complete any level 80 DPS role quest

As a Battle Mentor / PvE Expert I believe the gap should be increased as well for this.

My recommendations would be as follows:
Complete 3,000 dungeons, raids, or trials
Receive 2,500 player commendations
Complete any level 80 tank role quest
Complete any level 80 healer role quest
Complete any level 80 DPS role quest

In addition to the increased gap, the PvE Expert / Battle Mentor should have a quota as well.

The Following recommendation would be as follows:
- 20 Mentor Roulette a week
- 15 Commendations gained a week

This would show that the Mentor is currently active and is assisting the Sprouts as they are directed.

I hope everyone enjoys the rest of their day and may the light guide them!

Now for the fun part, I know alot of people are going to have their opinons. Yes, I am a Mentor of both sides. Do I have the requirements I described as above? The answer is no I do not have that fully as described, which means I would have to step up my game as a Crafter.

However, the increase of the toxicity of player base going into the Mentor role has been of notice and I feel this would be the best way to attempt to give Sprouts the best knowledge they deserve.

Of course, everyone's thoughts would be appreciated if you think there should be any additional recommendations or anything they would like changed from this look at the requirements.

The thing with "X commendations per week" for keeping the status, I highly doubt that would be feasible, as 99% of duties have no talking...at all...between people. And the majority of people likely commend the top person on the list, which is the tank(or healer of the person is the tank). Increasing the amount of required commendations/dungeons ran also wouldn't really change anything. The only thing, in my and many others - from what I've read on the forums over the years since mentor program was created - opinion, that would change that is completely changing the symbol that indicates someone is a mentor from the crown to something less than aesthetically pleasing.

Same thing with the 20 Mentor Roulette per week. I feel that isn't really a good way to "keep" the mentor status. I personally haven't had the drive to do all the Extremes(still have Shinryu, Seiryu, and Great Hunt Extreme to do from Stormblood, and basically all except Crown of the Immaculate still to do for Shadowbringers). There are people who make good mentors, but they just don't touch any of that content.

I personally am sitting at 5440 commendations, 7572 instanced dungeon raids or trials(based on the Lifer III achievement), and all class/job quests up to, and including, the level 80 ones finished. Does that mean I know ALL the classes and can optimise them all? Definitely not. Hell, I've never actually played SCH outside of doing the job quests and doing my Zeta relic for it(soon to do the Lux as well). But, do I have a basic understanding of most classes? Yes.

the answer to such a "problem" (in your eyes) is not by making it obscenely obtuse to get mentor status. I don't know what the solution is but it's not what you're proposing.

I don't think inflating the collectible amount you're required to complete as a crafter, or as a gatherer for that matter is the correct approach, especially seeing as you can reach the majority of these numbers just naturally during the leveling process, and whilst doing custom delivery clients.

If I were to be bluntly honest, with respect to DoH/L the requirement should be as follows:
1) Level 80 in any given class from your Crafter or Gatherer classes.
2) The sum completion of 1500 Collectables between your crafters and gatherers.
3) Completion of An Eye of Quality: Botanist (Miner) III, The One That Didn't Get Away III, An Eye for Detail (x) IV
4) I Found That Botanist (Miner) VI, I Caught That VI, or I Made That (x) VI
5) Additionally, a certain, and rare collectible from any given gatherer class, or if as a crafter an equivalent Expert recipe with hard-set stats.
All of these requirements must be met on an individual class of your choosing with (2) applying across all DoH/DoL classes.

I don't think the number of collectibles you've managed to accomplish should be reasonable grounds for qualifying as a mentor. Like, at all, especially considering a lot of players aren't really capable of stringing together a coherent sequence of thoughts which would qualify as giving advice, and neither would their current system, or your proposed one provide adequate chance to demonstrate such.

Though I could be equally honest and say that mentorship in any capacity should not exist within the confines of in-game because there is no tangible way to really assess whether someone would qualify or even have the correct 'characteristics' to be a good mentor.

Nope, mentors can have a ton of comms and run the roulette lots without necessarily helping sprouts, and they can help sprouts without doing instances.

Reqs have very little to do with finding good mentors. Neither do commendations. You can farm commendations just as easily as farming mentor roulettes (and why would you do more than 7 roulettes a week?)
Mentors need to have some sort of flagging or review in place where if enough people report a mentor for abuse, their logs are reviewed by the same task force that checks cheaters. If they are found to be in violation they should have status removed (or possibly suspended for first infractions).

Lack of mentoring isn't abuse, lack of talking isnt either. But rushing or denigrating a player is.

Mentors aren't experts and honestly we should just remove the crown and replace it with something less status charged. They're just supposed to be people willing to help if asked.

The best way to fix the mentor system would to be to abolish it entirely.

The novice network is just a captive platform for lonely gr00mers on most servers, interspersed with ""advice"" from people who are almost always completely clueless about how the game actually works. Half the time it devolves into spamming 100+ people with Gaia-online tier asterisk Roleplay lmao.

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Originally Posted by MiriRynendaith

In addition to the increased gap, the PvE Expert / Battle Mentor should have a quota as well.

The Following recommendation would be as follows:
- 20 Mentor Roulette a week
- 15 Commendations gained a week

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Congratulations! You've just removed all Mentors from the game.
Every. Single. One.

I could swallow 1 Mentor Roulette a week, not 20, I don't run 20 of ANY roulette in a given week.

As for raising the collectibles/commendation requirements.
Maybe the current goals are a little low, but it's entirely possible to be an endgame crafter and have made barely any collectibles. They're not required for crafting, only script turn ins, which are only required for a few niche items, and aren't at all difficult to do anyway.
Likewise, commendations don't really mean all that much, people can 'farm' them, and 3,000 is simply a needlessly long grind that isn't going to be representative of whether or not someone is a good mentor.

This is simply gatekeeping.
By continuously increasing the requirements for Mentor status, you ensure that only the players who have been here the longest have a chance at being a Mentor. Except that you don't need to have played since ARR was current in order to be an expert at this game, or be helpful to newbies.

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Originally Posted by MiriRynendaith

- 15 Commendations gained a week

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You don't always get commendations for good performance. So many times I have solo healed 8 man groups with players who seemed determined to die and got no commendations. Other times I did little other than spam Broil because there was no healing to do and got loads. I don't know if I have very weird luck but pretty often when I'm the reason why we didn't wipe I get little to no commendations.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Mentors need to have some sort of flagging or review in place where if enough people report a mentor for abuse, their logs are reviewed by the same task force that checks cheaters. If they are found to be in violation they should have status removed (or possibly suspended for first infractions).

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I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here.
Are you saying Mentors 'cheat'? as in, bot for commendations?

If anyone is getting reported for 'abuse' they look into it and punish accordingly, whether they're a mentor or not.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You don't always get commendations for good performance. So many times I have solo healed 8 man groups with players who seemed determined to die and got no commendations. Other times I did little other than spam Broil because there was no healing to do and got loads. I don't know if I have very weird luck but pretty often when I'm the reason why we didn't wipe I get little to no commendations.

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I've seen people who afk get 6 or 7 comms. Comms per week amounts to nothing. Mentor roulette also amounts to nothing too. You could easily only get/do guildhest to reach the 20. Plus MSQ 20 times a week, nightmare mode.

Trade mentor requirements are kind of low, the combat, meh seems balanced for current requirements.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here.
Are you saying Mentors 'cheat'? as in, bot for commendations?

If anyone is getting reported for 'abuse' they look into it and punish accordingly, whether they're a mentor or not.

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I think what is being insinuated here is that a good chunk of mentors have no business being a mentor when they're utterly 'toxic' about other players in the game. Be it being utterly useless, or unhelpful, or donning a disrespectful attitude..

Call it.. Making mentors more accountable.. Permanently stripping the crown for being a clown repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I think what is being insinuated here is that a good chunk of mentors have no business being a mentor when they're utterly 'toxic' about other players in the game. Be it being utterly useless, or unhelpful, or donning a disrespectful attitude..

Call it.. Making mentors more accountable.. Permanently stripping the crown for being a clown repeatedly.

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But if they're 'reported' and found to have been abusive, or harassing people... then they'll be treated just like any other person would in that situation.
They'll be suspended for x days, or even banned.
Stripping them of their crown seems like petty stuff in comparison.

You can't hold Mentors to higher standards than everyone else, because they're just players like everyone else.
You don't sign a contract to become a Mentor, it's just part of the game, that they're playing the same as you.
And if you did, then you're just policing personality at that point. "It's not technically against the rules so doesn't warrant a suspension, but you did seem a bit of a dick to me so no more Mentor for you." Yeah I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here.
Are you saying Mentors 'cheat'? as in, bot for commendations?

If anyone is getting reported for 'abuse' they look into it and punish accordingly, whether they're a mentor or not.

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I mean that abusing the mentor title by abusively "guiding" people or negatively coaching others should be reportable with it's own kind of ticket that removes or suspends mentor status if confirmed. Mentors need a player initiate-able check on them because it's not a status badge, it's supposed to be a beacon for new players and uninformed players to flock to for advice. They shouldn't be afraid to ask because "maybe they're one of those asshat ones". Standards for losing mentor status wouldn't quite be as strict as "abusive chat" or "Harassment" but would only result in the loss of mentor status, not suspension or banning unless deserved.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I think what is being insinuated here is that a good chunk of mentors have no business being a mentor when they're utterly 'toxic' about other players in the game. Be it being utterly useless, or unhelpful, or donning a disrespectful attitude..

Call it.. Making mentors more accountable.. Permanently stripping the crown for being a clown repeatedly.

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Exactly. Mentors need a watchdog system, not heavier reqs.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I mean that abusing the mentor title by abusively "guiding" people or negatively coaching others

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What does this mean?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Mentors need a player initiate-able check on them because it's not a status badge.

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This seems like it would be wide open to abuse.
Don't like someone who is a mentor? Report them for 'being a bit of a dick' to remove their Mentor crown.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You can't hold Mentors to higher standards than everyone else, because they're just players like everyone else.
You don't sign a contract to become a Mentor, it's just part of the game, that they're playing the same as you.
And if you did, then you're just policing personality at that point. "It's not technically against the rules so doesn't warrant a suspension, but you did seem a bit of a dick to me so no more Mentor for you." Yeah I don't think so.

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Mentoring should have a higher standard because people volunteer for it, you don't "earn" it. You are agreeing to being a guide and coach and a teaching position requires patience and understanding most gamers don't have. If you are proven not to have it, you don't need to be a mentor.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

What does this mean?


This seems like it would be wide open to abuse.
Don't like someone who is a mentor? Report them for 'being a bit of a dick' to remove their Mentor crown.

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This is why I also said it should be reviewed just like a normal report. It shouldn't just be "tick tick tick too many reports you lose mentor". Enough people report you for bad mentoring someone takes a look at the logs and makes a call.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

How do you prove that exactly?

This is a game. Mentors are players, they are not SE staff.

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As mentioned in my post , hence the edit, by review. GMs will have standards to follow.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Mentoring should have a higher standard because people volunteer for it, you don't "earn" it. You are agreeing to being a guide and coach and a teaching position requires patience and understanding most gamers don't have. If you are proven not to have it, you don't need to be a mentor.

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How do you prove that exactly?

This is a game. Mentors are players, they are not SE staff.

"The Following recommendation would be as follows:
- 20 Mentor Roulette a week
- 15 Commendations gained a week"

A week??? Some weeks I dont feel like playing and would rather get other games done. I also only do like one Mentor Roulette a day, then if I wanna help a group I'll go to PF.

At that point I'd just remove it. I only wear it to tell people "ask me questions!", to show that I'm here for you. I'm not some god player, nor do I think you need to be to be willing to help. Are there people that shouldn't be a mentor? Yes. But making it so that very few people have it (and still doesn't solve the problem of bad ones) ain't it.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

But if they're 'reported' and found to have been abusive, or harassing people... then they'll be treated just like any other person would in that situation.
They'll be suspended for x days, or even banned.
Stripping them of their crown seems like petty stuff in comparison.

You can't hold Mentors to higher standards than everyone else, but they're just players like everyone else.
You don't sign a contract to become a Mentor, it's just part of the game, that they're playing the same as you.
And if you did, then you're just policing personality at that point. "It's not technically against the rules so doesn't warrant a suspension, but you did seem a bit of a dick to me so no more Mentor for you." Yeah I don't think so.

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Most of the time, you're given a slap on the wrist then sent on your way, and quite frankly if you can't act like a mentor in any given situation then you don't deserve the crown to be bluntly put.

Going back to the last statement, you have a crown, which makes you a beacon of advice for newer players and many intermediate players, so yes, mentors should be held to those standards moreso than other people if they are donning that crown. The sheer fact people treat it as a pretty little glamour system more than a genuine beacon of good advice for newer players makes my skin crawl, especially when those donning it tend to hold their fellow peers in utter contempt.

If you aren't prepared to be held accountable or be held to any standard whatsoever whilst using the crown, then all I can really suggest is going to- 'The Smith' then clicking on "Resign from being a mentor" - Because those that hold it as a status symbol more than anything else are largely to blame for the current state with which people view those as being a mentor. So, yeah, going to have to disagree here.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

This is why I also said it should be reviewed just like a normal report. It shouldn't just be "tick tick tick too many reports you lose mentor". Enough people report you for bad mentoring someone takes a look at the logs and makes a call.

As mentioned in my post , hence the edit, by review. GMs will have standards to follow.

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GM's barely have time to go through all the real reports.
Let alone all the Karen's complaining that their Mentor wasn't helpful enough.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Most of the time, you're given a slap on the wrist then sent on your way, and quite frankly if you can't act like a mentor in any given situation then you don't deserve the crown to be bluntly put.

Going back to the last statement, you have a crown, which makes you a beacon of advice for newer players and many intermediate players, so yes, mentors should be held to those standards moreso than other people if they are donning that crown. The sheer fact people treat it as a pretty little glamour system more than a genuine beacon of good advice for newer players makes my skin crawl, especially when those donning it tend to hold their fellow peers in utter contempt.

If you aren't prepared to be held accountable or be held to any standard whatsoever whilst using the crown, then all I can really suggest is going to- 'The Smith' then clicking on "Resign from being a mentor" - Because those that hold it as a status symbol more than anything else are largely to blame for the current state with which people view those as being a mentor. So, yeah, going to have to disagree here.

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This is a game.
You are not on the SE payroll.
The Crown is literally a piece of glamour and that's never going to change. You're better off getting over it.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

GM's barely have time to go through all the real reports.
Let alone all the Karen's complaining that their Mentor wasn't helpful enough.

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Then more GM's are needed or a separate team needs to be made. Cruddy Mentors is a problem. I wear the crown to help but I've had a lot of people react badly to it without me saying or doing anything just because of the stigma around it.

Personally I feel the program needs to be scrapped and rebuilt.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

This is a game.
You are not on the SE payroll.
The Crown is literally a piece of glamour and that's never going to change. You're better off getting over it.

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The fact you feel so shows how badly the implementation went and shows how much we need to add some accountability and checks to it or to just get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

People react badly to advice anyway, whether you wear the crown or not.
People will find any reason to reject advice, or help, if they don't want it.
Being able to 'report' Mentors for 'not being helpful enough' is a disaster begging to happen and will only cause more work for the already thinly stretched GMs.

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Did you catch the part where they instantly reacted badly to it even though I hadn't said anything? It's not the advice.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Then more GM's are needed or a separate team needs to be made. Cruddy Mentors is a problem. I wear the crown to help but I've had a lot of people react badly to it without me saying or doing anything just because of the stigma around it.

Personally I feel the program needs to be scrapped and rebuilt.

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People react badly to advice anyway, whether you wear the crown or not.
People will find any reason to reject advice, or help, if they don't want it.
Being able to 'report' Mentors for 'not being helpful enough' is a disaster begging to happen and will only cause more work for the already thinly stretched GMs.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Did you catch the part where they instantly reacted badly to it even though I hadn't said anything? It's not the advice.

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It doesn't 'badly need' any of that. You simply want it to be more than what it is, you want it to be something its not.
It's noble in principle, but you're being an idealist, it's not practical.

I agree that trade mentor is too easy to get. Sprouts frequently get it before starting shadowbringers just to stay in the Novice Network (we should just let them stay in there until 5.4).

The battle mentor requirements are currently a sufficient deterrent and most people that get it are genuinely experienced players, but I would not mind further increases.

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Originally Posted by MiriRynendaith

The Following recommendation would be as follows:
- 20 Mentor Roulette a week
- 15 Commendations gained a week

This would should that the Mentor is currently active and is assisting the Sprouts as they are directed.

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I do not agree with this. A battle mentor can provide advice in the Novice Network all week without doing a single piece of content that week (I've done this) and sprouts deeply appreciate the answers.

20 mentor roulettes assumes that mentor roulette is unlocked, which is not always the case if they don't do extremes or bother with extremely long side questlines like Hildebrand and the ARR relic weapons. I've been so busy with other content in the game that I've never really got through much of Hildebrand.

15 commendations is steep and would put a big weekly pressure on you to farm commendations and this game doesn't normally try to pressure you like that. A monthly requirement may be better because then getting busy one week doesn't put you under such enormous pressure.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

This is a game.
You are not on the SE payroll.
The Crown is literally a piece of glamour and that's never going to change. You're better off getting over it.

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Yes, and those that take their mentorship as something genuine, and achievement, are lumped in the selfsame pile as those that view it as nothing and thus are treated as nothing more than a meme.

If you're going to tell me to "get over it" then all I can say in response to this is go find some other avenue to try and feel like a unique/special cub with the crown, one that doesn't misrepresent a genuine system or undermine those that see it as something genuine.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It doesn't 'badly need' any of that. You simply want it to be more than what it is, you want it to be something its not.
It's noble in principle, but you're being an idealist, it's not practical.

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It literally was a program meant to help unite people who were willing to give advice and guidance and those who were looking for it. Not a cosmetic. Not a badge you wear for status. Your insistence that it is so shows that failed. It needs either work, or to be removed.

Honestly, Kaurhz that is a really good recommendation for the completions. however I would bring it down to maybe the II.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I think what is being insinuated here is that a good chunk of mentors have no business being a mentor when they're utterly 'toxic' about other players in the game. Be it being utterly useless, or unhelpful, or donning a disrespectful attitude..

Call it.. Making mentors more accountable.. Permanently stripping the crown for being a clown repeatedly.

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Yes, this is the main reason. We have no way to hold people accountable, in which Novice Network even the sprouts sometimes feel threatened or scared to ask a question.

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Originally Posted by MiriRynendaith

Honestly, Kaurhz that is a really good recommendation for the completions. however I would bring it down to maybe the II.

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Thanks,

I wouldn't. My primary reason for this is because it puts you in a position where you need to have invested in the system itself, beyond doing basic or routine things. The more someone is, and has invested in a system, the more likely they are to understand even some of the more glaringly obvious intricacies. It barely scratches the surface of it, really- Making it that lenient.

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Originally Posted by MiriRynendaith

Yes, this is the main reason. We have no way to hold people accountable, in which Novice Network even the sprouts sometimes feel threatened or scared to ask a question.

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I'm glad other people aside from myself have noticed how petty things can get when mentors are arguing about captious and slanderous things, in a chat as open as Novice Network- Which for many newer players would be their first point of major exposure to the community itself.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I'm glad other people aside from myself have noticed how petty things can get when mentors are arguing about captious and slanderous things, in a chat as open as Novice Network- Which for many newer players would be their first point of major exposure to the community itself.

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No worries, its just we need a way to properly hold the Mentors accountable that show a negative impact on the player base. Yes we are not on a payroll, HOWEVER there should be some sort of method to keep those that actually want to be a mentor for the positive reasons. Yes I said 20 weekly roulettes a week, and like someone said make it monthly. Completely agree, because it shows some sort of check and balance. We have 100 Mentors in the Novice Network sitting there and doesn't help when you have the hand full of 5-15 that actually do per server.

I’m a trade mentor, and honestly collectibles was something I had to go out of my way to do for this mentor thing. Because when I did it there was no real reason to gather so many of them. This probably changed with ishgard and custom deliveries.

But I’d say trade mentor should be far harder. As it is people just get it so they can chat in novice network, they don’t really know much about trade and often give bad advice.

I’d make it 80 in all hand and land, all custom deliveries maxed. Throw in beast tribe achievements too maybe. Ishgard restoration. GC hand ins. All of these are better than mindlessly collecting trees to hit a number that you don’t need to hit.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I’m a trade mentor, and honestly collectibles was something I had to go out of my way to do for this mentor thing. Because when I did it there was no real reason to gather so many of them. This probably changed with ishgard and custom deliveries.

But I’d say trade mentor should be far harder. As it is people just get it so they can chat in novice network, they don’t really know much about trade and often give bad advice.

I’d make it 80 in all hand and land, all custom deliveries maxed. Throw in beast tribe achievements too maybe. Ishgard restoration. GC hand ins. All of these are better than mindlessly collecting trees to hit a number that you don’t need to hit.

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I could go behind the Hand and Lands because to be a Trade Expert you should be skilled in all classes. As for the custom deliveries, yeah I would go for that as well. It shows you put effort into your role to learn more. The Best tribes, I don't think I would support that one though.

Honestly the mentor system is the most poorly executed feature in the entire game. They should just remove all benefits and make the only perk be a free Burger King meal every month.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I mean that abusing the mentor title by abusively "guiding" people or negatively coaching others should be reportable with it's own kind of ticket that removes or suspends mentor status if confirmed. Mentors need a player initiate-able check on them because it's not a status badge, it's supposed to be a beacon for new players and uninformed players to flock to for advice. They shouldn't be afraid to ask because "maybe they're one of those asshat ones". Standards for losing mentor status wouldn't quite be as strict as "abusive chat" or "Harassment" but would only result in the loss of mentor status, not suspension or banning unless deserved.




Exactly. Mentors need a watchdog system, not heavier reqs.

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Just remove the mentor system then. It's frustrating enough playing with players who flat out DON'T want to improve, or literally get angry if you say anything. You're asking for Mentors to be "watched"? And who watches the non-mentors who drag roulette experience down and think they're entitled to not try being helpful to their parties?

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Honestly the mentor system is the most poorly executed feature in the entire game. They should just remove all benefits and make the only perk be a free Burger King meal every month.



Just remove the mentor system then. It's frustrating enough playing with players who flat out DON'T want to improve, or literally get angry if you say anything. You're asking for Mentors to be "watched"? And who watches the non-mentors who drag roulette experience down and think they're entitled to not try being helpful to their parties?

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Yes remove it, because there are people in it who think being a mentor is about bringing people up to standards instead of helping those who want it. Yes mentors are full of people who shouldn't be mentors and the system either needs to be scrapped or heavily moderated itself.

These requirements just seem to be grindy for no reason. How about open access to a help chat in the game and allowing people to right click a person and select "Give Thanks". If they have a lot of "Thanks" from a lot of unique players they'll become a mentor after a certain point. (Something like 50 thanks from at least 20 different people).

This way you have to help people to become a mentor. People's suggestions in this thread mean that whoever grinds the most becomes the mentors which I don't think makes sense.

There is the potential for cheating your way to get many thanks, but so does the commendation system and I have never seen someone buy commendations from others.

Oh look another thread trying to tell mentors how to mentor.

So a little background first, I've been a mentor since the system started way back when, I have been in the game since it started. I have seen this game change through the good, the bad, and the ugly, when they introduced the mentor system I feel like it was a wonderful new addition. We had it back in FFXI (Yes I know that horrible game that everyone freaks out over the minute you mention it on FFXIV) which was actually a nice system when it first started out. You could help new players, make some lasting friendships, even help them experience and deal through the crazy rage inducing system that was FFXI. So the minute they spoke about bringing the system to FFXIV I knew I wanted to jump on that due to having been a mentor in FFXI and remembering how it felt to help new players and then see them at top level completing things they only hoped to accomplish when they first started. THAT is what I thought of when the mention of the mentor system first came around, the idea of getting to see new players talking about their frustrations, being able to lead them in the correct direction, being the mentor who gives them a reason to keep playing and finding that right spot for them in the game. Being the one who is able to help them when they are lost, being able to teach them about all the exciting parts of the game that makes it fun, the story, the 24 man raids, the side quests like Hilde, teaching them melding, crafting, gathering, etc. This is what it means to be a mentor to me, being the person that when someone is lost you are there to answer for them and if you can't, well you have co-mentors there to lead them to. Making friendships with your co-mentors so that you all work together knowing who is better at what and being able to lead a sprout to someone who is better and understands crafting, or gathering, or raiding, or PvP, whatever it maybe, just so that player understands and isn't frustrated anymore. We as mentors are not here for the shiny crown, not for the 2 seater mount locked behind the mentor roulette, not for having our own little "private" chatting channel, WE are here to help the players who are lost, confused, and just frustrated to make sure they get the help they need so they ENJOY the game as we all did once.

Now with that said, sadly the Mentor System is NOT what I just described above, it is a toxic chat channel where I have met many sprouts who won't even ask questions because they either have been ignored in the past because mentors are just chatting and not caring, because mentors are talking about topics they should NOT be talking about in Novice Network, or because they simply are too terrified to ask due to seeing how some Mentors treat other players in either chat in general or dungeons. A system that is supposed to be there FOR THE SPROUTS isn't even really used by the sprouts at all because of some of these reasons and perhaps many more.


With that said, one of two things I believe should happen. Now this is my opinion and mine alone but this is what I believe.

First option, remove the system all together. It is a failed system as it is now, sprouts who do chat with the mentors do because they have been accepted into the "cliques" that are created in there just turn around and quickly level their crafters and gatherers to then be able to get back into the Novice Network so they are back with their "clique" chatting again. Mentors use the channel as just a chatting channel, and rarely (I didn't say not at all I said RARELY) does the channel ever actually get used for the purpose it is intended for. If it's not being used as it's supposed to be, then remove it. Strip the crowns so that is no longer something people strive for, remove the channel so a global chat is no longer a thing, and just remove the whole system all together that way people don't want to try it just because there is also a mount locked behind it. Take this back to where the "help" should be coming from THE PLAYERS & FREE COMPANIES. Free Companies are a dead thing now, yes I get some people do use their FC's and I also understand some FC's are Role Playing FC's. However, a lot of FC's are just a single person owned FC's to own a house, or they are FC's that have been trying to recruit and just having no luck. This would revive those FC's and give them more players who might of never even thought about it before. We have a wonderful new Website for the Community Finder for FC's, and it could be used to it's full potential. You can list your FC as new player friendly, however I believe if the Mentor System was removed, they could give FC's the right to list themselves as Mentoring style FC's and "Host" 1 or 2 FC's on the Community Site as endorsed FC adds ushering the sprouts towards these FC's who are there to help. Make it so those 1 or 2 FC ads are at the center top, and they get cycled through every so many minutes so a new FC is shown all the time so it's not a someone has more time than another FC thing. ALSO give people the right to report FC's if sprouts find them to NOT be new player friendly, or let sprouts be allowed to give the FC's stars or something showing a sprouts support of that FC, or write a review in a sense of the FC. Something that shows they are what they are claiming to be, but also something that if you have an jerk player in the FC, well now it's on the Officers and Owner of the FC to deal with it, if not then the sprout can leave and find hopefully a better fit for help. This will put new players back into a system of wanting to join an FC, wanting to find an FC that fits them and will help them towards the goals they want to achieve rather then a system where they just play alone the whole way. I really believe we need to find another way to utilize the FC's so they have and serve a purpose again (However that is another topic for another day).

Second option, SE needs to decide to finally put a separate Terms of Service and attach it to the Mentor System. You want to be a mentor? Awesome, this is your TOS. Have it outline things like, how you should act towards your fellow players within the Novice Network, how NN isn't a global chat, what is appropriate and isn't appropriate to be discussing in the NN. Things like how you should act towards others while in dungeons if you have a sprout with you. Things that YES I know are already in the original TOS, but things that should be defined a little more to hold Mentors accountable to their actions so that if a sprout wants to report them, awesome they have a WHOLE separate TOS they are being held to because this is a mentor interacting with a sprout. Can it be abused? Yes. Do I feel like mentors should be held to a higher standard than other players? YES. Mentors signed up to BE MENTORS. We didn't just earn the crown, it wasn't just randomly given to us, we actually had to walk our characters over to the smith, click on them, and DECIDE to BECOME a mentor. That was OUR choice, not SE, not another player, it wasn't forced on us, WE decided this. So we should be held accountable to our decision and how we act as such.

End result, I don't think there will ever be any suitable "requirements" to being a mentor that will ever fix the flaws we have in the current system, I believe the system in general should be either removed or mentors finally held accountable. Would I love to see a watering can next to my name instead? GOD YES!! However, if the crown remains, then make that crown SHINE like it should. Make the mentors what they should have been all along, shining leaders for the new players who come into Eorzea all wide eyed and excited to be there for them when they are frustrated and ready to quit. To be the hand to lead them when they are lost and need guidance. That is what a mentor SHOULD be, and we SHOULD be held accountable for our actions because we choose to be a Mentor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

These requirements just seem to be grindy for no reason. How about open access to a help chat in the game and allowing people to right click a person and select "Give Thanks". If they have a lot of "Thanks" from a lot of unique players they'll become a mentor after a certain point. (Something like 50 thanks from at least 20 different people)

This way you have to help people to become a mentor. People's suggestions in this thread mean that whoever grinds the most becomes the mentors which I don't think makes sense.

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I like the idea of putting your mentor qualifications in positive votes instead of some arbitrary grindable metric. Commendations aren't particularly laudable especially with a XP incentive behind giving them out. You can farm them just by being a tank and doing raids or being the last to leave an instance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Congratulations! You've just removed all Mentors from the game.
Every. Single. One.

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You say that as if it is a bad thing. :P