Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

Few days away from 1.22. What do you think we'll see as far as job balancing?

a Pld Buff?

or

a War Nerf?

I'm hoping for a Pld buff myself.

PLD buff please! It's like SE takes turns with the jobs..one patch pld sucks, next one war sucks then pld good, etc

I don't think a Pld buff would resolve the thing about excluding Pld on runs. If something is going to resolve it is a War nerf and ppl will hate for that

Pld buff AND war nerf.. mwahhahahahahaha.

I vote option 3

BLM buff

No one needs a complete buff or nerf. WAR is great dealing damage and should stay as it is DD wise, but they should nerf its ability to take damage so it can no longer tank. PLD should have a buff in its ability to take damage and generate enmity.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

Pld buff AND war nerf.. mwahhahahahahaha.

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I agree with morticous :3

PLD nerf and WAR buff, its the way to go.

PLD buff and minor WAR nerf, maybe make WAR's ability to take damage lessened a tad as right now it seems like there's little reason to choose a PLD over a WAR.

I think it would be nice if WAR kept its tanking capabilities though, choice is always good.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

PLD buff and minor WAR nerf, maybe make WAR's ability to take damage lessened a tad as right now it seems like there's little reason to choose a PLD over a WAR.

I think it would be nice if WAR kept its tanking capabilities though, choice is always good.

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That defeats the purpose of jobs tho. YoshiP said that there's supposed to be some inviolability of each job role.

It will go down exactly like this.

Patch 1.22

PLD is supposed to play the main tank role while WAR is supposed to play the Crowd Control tank role. However currently WAR plays both roles, and does main tank better than PLD. However this is mostly because there are a lot of abilities that can be evaded by moving making a beefy tank useless. Now while I think that WAR's heavy hit tanking capabilities should be reduced, I think the main thing needed is a PLD buff and a rework on how bosses work. Right now the major source of damage is AA and 1 or 2 attacks which are not avoidable but don't need to be. This will make WAR the better tank only because it can survive and deal more damage at the same time.

No need to nerf anything honestly. If a job shines, bring the others up to its level.

Nerfing things is pretty back-asswards, unless it's something extraordinarily broken.

(For the record, I don't play, nor intend to level mrd/war outside of a need for certain abilities)

Unfortunately to make things work, and more importantly to make the community bother to change its ways once it gets set in them (i.e. using Ul'dah as a stomping ground after leve-link failing went south) it will require a two part effort buff and nerf. However, not much of either.

PLD can already tank well it just needs a slight uptick in universal defense as some have pointed out. An increase in damage wouldn't hurt either.

WAR needs a hit on defense so that it is no longer viable as a consistent main tank, however still has back up functionality and can do crowd control on trash with only some difficulty.

What square is really thinking

MRD nerf, yes please, can I have it ..

Although to be honest I am starting to get fed up with GLA lack of accuracy, that could do with a buff besides the obvious PLD stuff, its unbelievable how broken GLA still is after all this time.

SE if you are going to make a class as weak as GLA you should at least give it extremely high accuracy.

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No need to nerf anything honestly. If a job shines, bring the others up to its level

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This is the worse thing you can do from a balancing point of view, it will just make all old content and bosses really weak and underpowered.

Bringing everything underpowered up to the strongest thing only makes future balancing problems even harder to solve, because you eventually reach a situation where you can't turn stuff up because *everything* is OP.

I am against a warrior nerf. I am for a paladin's getting improved or even reworked. I don't feel like there is anything wrong with having two tank classes. Why should Paladin be the only tank class? It's better than NIN.

I feel like if it happens, that warrior gets a nerf, warrior will be another job that no one ever uses. And you might can argue that "Oh, no one uses paladins right now." Which may be true, but everything is still able to be accomplished with Paladin as main tank. It is just more efficient to use Warrior. I mean they were given all these hate abilities for a reason. So now they have to sit in the back and not use them because a Paladin only should?

Honestly, when I think of Warrior, I feel like S.E. did a perfect job in making them what they are. But that's just my opinion.

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PLD is supposed to play the main tank role while WAR is supposed to play the Crowd Control tank role.

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I don't understand why people keep saying this. Pld gets the aoe taunt & has the heals & gets the ability to save other people. That all sounds like a crowd controler to me.

Pld is supposed to be the main tank why? Because of FFXI? But the tank there was Ninja... or Pld/Nin, which is still Nin.

This

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This is the worse thing you can do from a balancing point of view, it will just make all old content and bosses really weak and underpowered.

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And this...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Bringing everything underpowered up to the strongest thing only makes future balancing problems even harder to solve, because you eventually reach a situation where you can't turn stuff up because *everything* is OP.

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Spot on, balance requires that the there are seven jobs and each should be really good at one thing, as it stands there are five jobs that are good at one thing, one that is badish at its one thing, and one that is excellent at two things, balance is seven to one, you all want each thing to be super good at many things, that is not balance, that is OP

I imagine there will be a WAR def nerf eventually.

PLD buff.

WAR does a good job as its style of Tanking. PLD falls short at its style. I would prefer the option of having 2 tanks and not continue on with just one, by nerfing WAR and buffing PLD.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

I don't understand why people keep saying this. Pld gets the aoe taunt & has the heals & gets the ability to save other people. That all sounds like a crowd controler to me.

Pld is supposed to be the main tank why? Because of FFXI? But the tank there was Ninja... or Pld/Nin, which is still Nin.

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Last thing I thought about was FFXI. If you look at the skill sets it's quite obvious.

WAR:
#1 Vengeance- Returns damage to enemies and reduced damage. This is a god to a crowd control tank.
#2 Collusion- Pretty much ensures that War keeps hate on a group of monsters.
#3 Steel Cyclone- Probably one of the best AoEs in the game right now. Extremely high burst damage make it so that you can gain burst hate and it can heal you up by a great amount, especially in a larger group of monsters.

PLD:
#1 Holy Succor- Increases sustainability of the PLD and targeted DD/Healer. This wouldn't be used as often when there are trash mobs since they would die fast anyway.
#2 Divine Veil- 100% block rate for 33% of the time. Pretty much makes PLDs very good against strong AA monsters, pretty much bosses. Also gives an AoE Regen which, if melees were more useful in current content, would be great to keep melees alive.
#3- Hallowed Ground- Just compare WAR's 15 minute skill to PLD's 15 minute skill. One is for burst damage (enmity burst) while the other is for sustainability.

However right now since content is all ranged DD, there is no need for a PLD since WAR can do everything better than a PLD especially if there are no melees that need taking care of. I mean Defense is barely important against bosses(for tanks), but it makes a huge difference against trash mobs. This is why WARs and PLDs have almost the same defense. That defense can decrease monster damage by 25%-50%, but against a boss it mainly affects AA which in the end only shaves off around 10% of the AA. I don't think WAR itself needs a nerf, I think PLDs need to be able to tank better (Innate Damage Reduc?) and make it so that bosses are deadlier versus the tank with its unavoidable abilities/AA.

Flash is the only AoE which PLD gets, and the amount of ENM it gives is good for an instant hate gain that will last until the first hit, however WAR can just pop collusion and the first hit will count towards them in hate.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

However right now since content is all ranged DD, there is no need for a PLD since WAR can do everything better than a PLD especially if there are no melees that need taking care of.

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I hope then, if this line of thinking is considered, any adjustments would be held off until after Garuda had been in the wild for a while, since there was a response from the devs that said they were looking into making more encounters melee friendly, starting with her.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

I don't understand why people keep saying this. Pld gets the aoe taunt & has the heals & gets the ability to save other people. That all sounds like a crowd controler to me.

Pld is supposed to be the main tank why? Because of FFXI? But the tank there was Ninja... or Pld/Nin, which is still Nin.

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The FFXIV community seems to can't function unless there is only one Tank in game and the rest as some off tank. That of course shafts people that actually enjoy the tanking role.

WAR: Tank
PLD: Tank

Neither is supposed to be a "main" Tank. They each have their own style of Tanking but neither is supposed to be the "main".

What it really boils down to:

Parry>Block
We all know it...

Antagonize>Sentinel (for hate)
Antagonize increases enmity of abilities and damage, Sentinel just increases enmity of damage? Sentinel Broken? working as intended? If it is working as intended, maybe SE feels the damage mitigation balances out the fact that antagonize increases the enmity of abilities... Either way, for keeping hate, Antagonize wins

Collusion>Cover (For Maintaining hate)
Cover is most helpful when someone else is getting hit... But in many situations, if you get the chance to use this, then you have already failed... I know the MP boost through the AF is cool... but that's not enough

HP>physical damage mitigation
This one is iffy....Obviously it depends on how much HP and how much mitigation, but it would be better if it was HP vs ALL DAMAGE mitigation... not just physical... but it's not... so for that reason (And because taking magic damage is a major part of tanking) I'd say HP wins...
I will say this though... on a 1 to 1 basis, I'd choose defense over HP... but that's not the case... First of all PLD's dont have any more defense than WAR and also HP is so much easier to add than DEF, 3 top tiered DEF are almost equivalent to 1 top tier HP

Don't know what will happen in this patch....
Will be interesting to see though

edit: Forgot the most important one... WAR is like having another melee DD in your party

A little of both :D

It will unfortunately be a WAR nerf, just because it's always easier to nerf than to buff, regardless of how unhealthy it is in the long run.

But through buffing, they can actually go around buffing all other content to make older content more relevant. Which needs to happen anyways, as they need to make content buffed enough to counteract the bonuses for Full-Party.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Flash is the only AoE which PLD gets, and the amount of ENM it gives is good for an instant hate gain that will last until the first hit, however WAR can just pop collusion and the first hit will count towards them in hate.

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Fash has the same cooldown as Steel Cyclone and does not need tp first. Meaning Two flashes before first Cyclone goes off.
Pld has War Drum on top of that.
And Cure hate counts towards all mobs.

Hopefully the appropriate amount of both. And I do say this as a 50 war, its just too much. Unless they want to just buff every class, which would be fine by me. When you choose off tank as main tank for almost everything, you know something is wrong.

So the obvious solution is to nerf warrior so they can be a damage dealer (like we don't have enough of those already) because we can't have two tank classes which won't be as good as a monk or dragoon or blackmage and can't support like a bard. Oh let's leave our 3/5 warrior skills from being used and quite a few marauder skills as well because you know. Damage dealers aren't suppose to put hate on themselves. Seems like Marauder would be choice to play instead of Warrior.

To those of you who want to turn around and say "I can damage good as warrior blahblahblah." the same can be said for Paladins who can tank correctly.

Also... GLA/PLD's only AOE "attack" is War Drum... and let's be honest... it's not really an attack

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Also... GLA/PLD's only AOE "attack" is War Drum... and let's be honest... it's not really an attack

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Because it's a tutrle healer tank, not a damage tank.



You all really want Pld to be everything: tank, healer and damage dealer. Talk about not having realistic views, dream on.

pld need a def and HP buff and get gla damage back.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Because it's a tutrle healer tank, not a damage tank.



You all really want Pld to be everything: tank, healer and damage dealer. Talk about not having realistic views, dream on.

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No.. it's just.. use steel cyclone on a WAR and War drum on a PLD and see which one has hate on the group

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Because it's a tutrle healer tank, not a damage tank.



You all really want Pld to be everything: tank, healer and damage dealer. Talk about not having realistic views, dream on.

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Technically WAR is kinda all 3 lol. A tanking War uses Rampage, which states that critical hits will heal you. We have Bloodbath and our combos enhance our odds of landing critical hits. We also have the ability to attach second wind to us which does give us an instant cure compared to a cast cure that may result in interruption is done at the wrong time.

Perhaps a simple tweak for MAR would be to remove the ability to heal with critical attacks while rampage is active, the reason why MAR is able to stand up to a wide range of foes with ease is because of the crit mod when using the steel cyclone combo, we can literally go from 25% to full HP if around enough mobs. Removing the chance to be self healed through rampage would nerf us a tad but it would balance us out from being a tank/healer/dd lol.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Technically WAR is kinda all 3 lol.

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WAR is absolutely all 3... I'm not hating on it, I have both classes, and love both...
But WAR healing is, at the very least, on par with PLD's.....
So even the thing PLD is supposed to do well, it is outshined by WAR....

Second wind + Blood Bath + Rampage/crits + Steel Cyclone give WAR more healing potential than PLD's Holy Succor and it's 10 second recast time, 2 second cast time + the fact that it uses MP

You can only use Holy Succor 5 times in a minute.... whereas 1 steel cyclone during rampage can heal just as much

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Fash has the same cooldown as Steel Cyclone and does not need tp first. Meaning Two flashes before first Cyclone goes off.
Pld has War Drum on top of that.
And Cure hate counts towards all mobs.

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On paper it sounds nice, but then think about it effectively. Lets think about the room with the ants and basilisks in CC. Warrior runs in, auto attacks 2-3 times as they get all the initial hate on ants. Returns, casts Collusion on BLM, then either combo to steel Cyclone or just pop it off with 2k TP. Not only that, they can use antagonize and/or sentinel. Sentinel for PLD doesn't work on heals or flash. Not only that, your steel cyclone also does a good chunk of the monsters HP.

Yea, PLD instead does Flash, then the hate gets stolen by a BLM, he can cover and hope that another BLM doesn't take hate, and killing the ants takes longer. Yea, not seeing it. Trash mob groups should be killed under 30 seconds. You could also heal, but why do you think the BLMs get the hate and not the healers that heal even more?

PLD could tank a group of mobs, but not only will it take a lot more work, the amount of damage you deal, which affects the amount of time it takes, would be a lot less than a WAR since their job is focused around that sort of situation.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Technically WAR is kinda all 3 lol. A tanking War uses Rampage, which states that critical hits will heal you. We have Bloodbath and our combos enhance our odds of landing critical hits. We also have the ability to attach second wind to us which does give us an instant cure compared to a cast cure that may result in interruption is done at the wrong time.

Perhaps a simple tweak for MAR would be to remove the ability to heal with critical attacks while rampage is active, the reason why MAR is able to stand up to a wide range of foes with ease is because of the crit mod when using the steel cyclone combo, we can literally go from 25% to full HP if around enough mobs. Removing the chance to be self healed through rampage would nerf us a tad but it would balance us out from being a tank/healer/dd lol.

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Is this what this thread really is about? Even if that were to happen people would still use War. It would not matter during fights so much life ifrit, chimera, miser, ect. And we would still be in this same situation.

Although, I do agree that it would help the some, it would not be that big of an improvement to take away from the main boss fights which we would still be in this same predicament.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Because it's a tutrle healer tank, not a damage tank.

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First of all, it isnt even a good turtle tank atm (it could use some more tweaking) and second of all, War is not only a damage tank but has 3 ways of healing itself. second wind, rampage, and bloodbath. Plus not to mention its damage is superb.