An end to the camping timer. An end to resale. A return to...

I think the best solution to housing shortage is a return to ARR pricing. A small house used to cost 40 million or so. It would then devalue a couple million per day, until it was cheap enough for someone to decide they wanted it.

Benefits:
-It kills the camp. You know exactly what time the house will be the price you're willing to pay. Come back then and buy (or find out someone else wanted it more)
-It stops the resellers. That house is wide open. If no one is paying what it costs right now, you won't make any money at all trying to buy it for resale.
-It rewards players the most invested in the game. Farmed 40m for your personal? Your FC of eight people put in 5m each? The house is yours, no waiting.

Detriment:
-It pulls housing out of the price range for people who are on trial membership and for people who have only been playing a few months.

If SE leaves house pricing where it is, they need to make enough for everyone (~80 wards total or instanced housing)

If SE is going to leave supply where it is, they ought to price the houses accordingly.

Especially if it will stop flippers and end camping.

And throughout ARR, entire wards were mostly vacant plots. Which kind of defeats the whole point of having a housing system to begin with. Furthermore, it wouldn't do much to deter anyone. Gil has virtually no value anymore due to the massive inflation. So the exorbitant prices wouldn't matter to many players. Not to mention how much worse botting has got. All in all, you're just rewarding the extremely rich players or those willing to RMT.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

I think the best solution to housing shortage is a return to ARR pricing. A small house used to cost 40 million or so. It would then devalue a couple million per day, until it was cheap enough for someone to decide they wanted it.

Benefits:
-It kills the camp. You know exactly what time the house will be the price you're willing to pay. Come back then and buy (or find out someone else wanted it more)
-It stops the resellers. That house is wide open. If no one is paying what it costs right now, you won't make any money at all trying to buy it for resale.
-It rewards players the most invested in the game. Farmed 40m for your personal? Your FC of eight people put in 5m each? The house is yours, no waiting.

Detriment:
-It pulls housing out of the price range for people who are on trial membership and for people who have only been playing a few months.

If SE leaves house pricing where it is, they need to make enough for everyone (~80 wards total or instanced housing)

If SE is going to leave supply where it is, they ought to price the houses accordingly.

Especially if it will stop flippers and end camping.

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The best solution to the housing shortage is to implement an instanced housing system as most of the other MMOs with housing use so every character can own one or more houses depending on what the player wants that character to have.

Increasing prices won't reduce demand. The player base has become far too large and there are too many wealthy players with nothing to spend that gil on. If anything, it will encourage RMT among the less wealthy players because there's no real risk to gil buying.

It doesn't kill the camping. The camping goes away only if the timer is removed.

It won't stop the resellers. They'll continue to flip for profit as they always have. Someone willing to pay 100 million gil for a house is just as likely to pay 120 million to the flipper who got to the plot first.

Gil is a bad way to measure someone's investment in the game since not all game activities reward gil equally based on time investment. Are omnicrafters more deserving of a house than the players who love to PvP or run roulettes? No, they aren't.

Players on the free trial have gil cap of 300k and are not allowed to own property so doesn't affect anything they have access to. New players bypass the impact if they go the RMT route.

If SE is going to stick to the ward system, boosting up initial pricing is not going to put much of a dent in demand. If you really want to put a dent in demand, attach a recurring monthly fee to house ownership. Someone who's not going to use the house is pretty unlikely to buy it if they know it's going to have a long term cost. Someone who has bought a house but is no longer using it is a lot more likely to relinquish rather than keep wasting gil month and month.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The best solution to the housing shortage is to implement an instanced housing system as most of the other MMOs with housing use so every character can own one or more houses depending on what the player wants that character to have.

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That'd be the ideal. Next best thing would be 80 wards. Best thing for the current system, I still think, is this price increase.

Regarding 'it doesn't kill camping':
It does, though. I'm proposing an end to the housing timer, along with this price change. These 40m smalls, 150m mediums, and 500m larges would be walk-up-and-buy.

Regarding 'It doesn't kill resale':
It does, though. If a reseller purchases a small for 40m, he now has to find someone willing to pay him significantly more than 40 million and then also pay the placard another 40 million.

The price you gave may just be wall-spaghetti numbers, but no one is paying 100 million gil for small houses. Mediums do sell for that, but in this case mediums would be 150m at the placard. So a reseller would need to find someone willing to spend 330m+ to get into a medium house.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

All in all, you're just rewarding the extremely rich players

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How else do you decide how to distribute a resource only ~20% of players can have? Each server has 5,760 houses (roughly 4320 personals and 1440 FC) and 20,000-25,000 players. Right now we decide which one player in five gets a house based on their ability to click a placard for several hours at a time, any number of times. Many people have commented how-anti fun this system is.

There needs to be a check on housing other than patience, free time, and abuse of your gaming hardware. I think 'players or FCs who have 40 million gil to invest' is a decent check. 40 mil is far from "extremely rich" it's just a player who has put a good year into the game at endgame content, or an FC that has 8+ people willing to pool a few weeks worth of work.

Not to mention, the game needs a gil sink. You say this would only benefit the rich, but I know some of the rich and they'd swat me for saying this, but small houses having a placard price of 3m contribute greatly to their riches. Having to invest 40 million gil every time you wanted a workshop would put a dent in profiteering.

I have to agree with the other replies, making them more expensive doesnt actually make them more available at all, except for more rich players. It doesnt stop campers because the timer is the reason there are campers, and it doesnt increase availability because the wards are limited and added so in frequently. The demolition timer helps, sure. But an instanced house would be better than anything else suggested. The other suggestion, a monthly gil tax would help speed the process, but at a snails pace. Having owned a couple houses in the past, i dont personally care much for them as the benefits to me are pretty much solved being in a FC that has a house. But im not other players who want that part of the game they already pay a sub for, and to them it means a lot more than me for various reasons, rp house design, etc. Instance housing is the best solution in my opinion. It caters to the entire spectrum whether the player base grows by a million or shrinks, it doesnt cause people to flare up at each other, it removes a major stress element for paying customers who still dont get to enjoy all the game can offer, and it removes suggestions like raise the cieling for people to get one, even if theyve been paying a sub for years and still havent gotten one, If the wards are a big deal especially for the RP crown, maybe allow instanced linking, where players can make their own neighborhoods that are linked some kind of way to a limit. That would actually be a cool idea though it might require them to spend some time and resources on the idea of housing. Either way the current system isnt promoting much positivity, is only making the situation worse as time goes by.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

spend some time and resources on the idea of housing

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That's the biggest barrier.

If instanced housing is around the corner, or the next ward expansion adds wards 25-80, then the problem is solved and this idea can be ignored. My suggestion is grounded in the current housing system since that is what we have to work with.

And again, it does indeed stop campers, I have said that I want to abolish the timer with this change. The house is walk-up-and-buy at 40 mil, and will drop a few mil in price per day until it's worth someone's while. If it's only worth it to you after 2 more devalues, you know to come back in 12 hours. There's nothing to click, so no more camp. You buy it when it hits your price, or you get outbid.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

That's the biggest barrier.

If instanced housing is around the corner, or the next ward expansion adds wards 25-80, then the problem is solved and this idea can be ignored. My suggestion is grounded in the current housing system since that is what we have to work with.

And again, it does indeed stop campers, I have said that I want to abolish the timer with this change. The house is walk-up-and-buy at 40 mil, and will drop a few mil in price per day until it's worth someone's while. If it's only worth it to you after 2 more devalues, you know to come back in 12 hours. There's nothing to click, so no more camp. You buy it when it hits your price, or you get outbid.

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You can still do housing infinitely better by making it instanced. But sure, they can fix the timer if they do that as well as whatever else you say, doesnt improve on the housing as a whole in my opinion. Housing in this game is still 1 dimensional, besides people cleverly owning up entire wards to make their gingerbread neighborhood, or RP cafe district. You dont build the house wall by wall, you just put a precrafted shell on a precrafted foundation and plug a precrafted roof on top. Boring as hell, if you ask me. Luckilly clever designers have figured out ways to glitch in pieces here and there to create a more customized experience in such a bland system. But yeah charging more for a dull housing experience makes a lot of sense somehow, if you keeo willing yourself to believe that, i guess.

What you do you think is the best the day i want to give up on my personnal house :

- that the timer is still here, and that everyone, including you, can have a go at it ?
- that there is no timer anymore, and that i will just give the plot to someone i know since i can predict the exact moment the purchase can be made ?

As horrible the timer can seems to be, if you remove it then people will just start again, like they were doing before, to give the plot they own to their friends or even resell it for real money. There is a reason why the timer was put into place, and it is because the old system was worse.

Also as already said, we have enough problems with all the RMT bots as it is. We really dont need way higher prices.

Oh good, put housing farther out of the way of regular players who either RP or play casually without getting too far into the crafting system. That won't have any negative repercussions or result in massive player backlash, surely.

I agree that housing should eventually become instanced similar to the Mog Homes in FFXI (but on a bigger scale). I think it would be neat if everyone had access to a house that they could show off rare items they’ve collected, rare furniture, or a personal room for their RPing. Whatever it may be. It’s clear that with the current system there will always be a group of players who are upset or shout gatekeeping at those who do have plots. The system should be fixed to keep up with the volume of players.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

You can still do housing infinitely better by making it instanced.

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Obviously. I said that much in nearly all of my posts. But again, this suggestion is made with the world we live in in mind. ~4300 personal houses to divide fairly between 20,000+ people.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

put housing farther out of the way of regular players

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Housing is made 'out of reach' by its limited supply. Only one in five players can have a house. My suggestion just designates that the one person chosen has to pony up 20 weeks worth of savings, instead of 2. You could call me a 'regular player' as I don't even craft and I make about 2 million gil a week without actively farming for money.

Again, 'a perfect world with a perfect housing system' is a better idea, yes, but the past shows that SE is reluctant to supply housing enough for us all. While there is so little housing, it should be distributed to people with the biggest stake in the game, and the gil sink would help the economy.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Regarding 'It doesn't kill resale':
It does, though. If a reseller purchases a small for 40m, he now has to find someone willing to pay him significantly more than 40 million and then also pay the placard another 40 million.

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You didn't say anything in your original post about removing the timer, only increasing the pricing.

Yes, removing the timer would end the camping. That's obvious.

I still don't agree it would remove the reselling. A reseller doesn't have to make double the purchase price for it to be worth their time and effort. Someone who really wants a house will pay the price if that's the only way to get one.

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Originally Posted by Mchappy

I agree that housing should eventually become instanced similar to the Mog Homes in FFXI (but on a bigger scale). I think it would be neat if everyone had access to a house that they could show off rare items they’ve collected, rare furniture, or a personal room for their RPing. Whatever it may be. It’s clear that with the current system there will always be a group of players who are upset or shout gatekeeping at those who do have plots. The system should be fixed to keep up with the volume of players.

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It's called an apartment, and you can have several of them. If you already want 'instanced housing', why bother with the outside in the first place? Nobody's going to see it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

A reseller doesn't have to make double the purchase price for it to be worth their time and effort

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I didn't say double. My math had a reseller making a 30 million gil profit on 150m spent if they could convince someone to spend 330m to get into a medium house. The money the buyer spends does not all go to the reseller, it accounts for placard price. The buyer pays more than double because they pay the reseller and then they pay the placard. The seller would have to receive, say, 10% of what they put forth to make a reasonable profit.

So you think people will spend 84 million+ for small houses, 315 million+ for mediums, and 1,050,000,000 or more gil for larges? ok.

Based on your confusion over my math, and your thinking that people would spend 84+ million to get into small houses, I don't think you know enough about the resale market to know how this would change it.

Responding to a post that's no longer there, suggesting I was supporting resellers with this change:

Right now, people pay resellers up to 40 million gil for small houses. If you can buy something for 3m and sell for 40m, it's worth selling. If you can buy it for 40 million and sell it for 40 million, it's not. Upping the placard price kills the profit, kills the market.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

I didn't say double. My math had a reseller making a 30 million gil profit on 150m spent if they could convince someone to spend 330m to get into a medium house. The money the buyer spends does not all go to the reseller, it accounts for placard price. The buyer pays more than double because they pay the reseller and then they pay the placard. The seller would have to receive, say, 10% of what they put forth to make a reasonable profit.

So you think people will spend 84 million+ for small houses, 315 million+ for mediums, and 1,050,000,000 or more gil for larges? ok.

Based on your confusion over my math, and your thinking that people would spend 84+ million to get into small houses, I don't think you know enough about the resale market to know how this would change it.

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What else are they going to spend their gil on in a game that lacks any significant gil sinks to drain gil back out of the system?

As for the resale market, right now the purchase timer hinders it but not stop it. If there weren't enough players willing to deal with resellers through the limitations currently imposed by the system, the resale market would have shut down by now. Since that hasn't happened, we know the resale market is healthy enough even with the current limitations.

Remove the purchase timer and the resale market blows wide open again because those limitations disappear. Anyone with the gil could be the buyer instead of just those who already own a house or who are willing to buy a FC to get one.

You seem to be overlooking that there won't be 5760 plots available for sale on each world if your proposed change is implemented. Most of those plots already have owners and SE is not going to charge their owners retroactively for any purchase price increase. It's going to be the relatively small number of plots that are demolished or voluntarily relinquished and their new buyers that would be impacted by the price increase.

How many houses per NA world were becoming available each week prior to the suspension of the demolition timer and independent of the ward additions. My guess based off what I can remember from previous discussions would be about 6-8 a week. That would add up to about 400 houses available for sale each year, again independent of any decision by SE to add more wards.

When active player populations on the NA worlds are estimated to be in the 20-25k, do you genuinely believe there won't be at least a few hundred out of the 15-20k "homeless" players willing and able to pay the reseller's fee on top of the purchase fee for at least smalls and mediums?

Resellers might not get their hands on every house that becomes available but they'll be able to get their hands on enough for reselling to remain in the game unless SE changes the system so supply meets demand.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Responding to a post that's no longer there, suggesting I was supporting resellers with this change:

Right now, people pay resellers up to 40 million gil for small houses. If you can buy something for 3m and sell for 40m, it's worth selling. If you can buy it for 40 million and sell it for 40 million, it's not. Upping the placard price kills the profit, kills the market.

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No longer worth it to you, perhaps. But there is always someone who will grasp any opportunity for profit. And removing the timer would remove some of the headaches resellers currently have, like creating new shell FCs from scratch.

(edit: want to clarify that I'm not trying to imply you currently are or ever have been a reseller, only that in your mind it would not be worth it if it was something you had been considering)

Ultimately, we're back to SE needs to fix the system. There is no good reason to make housing a limited resource exploited for profit by those out to make profit whether it comes in the form of reselling or creating multiple FCs to run workshops and gardens. Ownership of a house should be an opportunity for every player in the game.

Let's stop dreaming up ways to make certain a broken system stays broken.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What else are they going to spend their gil on in a game that lacks any significant gil sinks to drain gil back out of the system?

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Well, if every small house sale pulled 40,000,000 out of the economy, each NA world would have been sunk an average of 31.6 billion gil in the past year. That's not even counting the considerable added value of mediums and larges.

(My math is 19,000 house purchases in NA during 2020* divided by 24 worlds equals roughly 790 purchases per world at 40,000,000 each)

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

As for the resale market, right now the purchase timer hinders it but not stop it.

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Well, prior to the timer it was popular to purchase a house for 3m and then offer to relinquish for 20m+ to a prospective buyer. That is no longer possible at all, so in that way the timer did stop it.

My proposed change would bring houses closer to what people are willing to pay for them, and hopefully make the timer unnecessary. I honestly don't think even a handful of people would pay 84 million gil for a small house, and certainly no one is paying 315m for a medium (I mean, maybe for the medium). Keep in mind this is for resellers who want to make a modest 10% profit, not the ridiculous gouging that occurs presently.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

[Buying for 40 million and selling for 40 million is] No longer worth it to you, perhaps.

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40 minus 40 is 0. No one is going to do business just to break even. Right now you can spend 3m for a house and sell for 40m, 1300% profit. Spending 40, you'd have to sell your small FC for 520 million to make the same profit. With placard cost brought in line with demand, it's far more likely for the FC to come upon a house available at placard price than it is today. People are unlikely to pay any price that would support a market.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Ultimately, we're back to SE needs to fix the system... Ownership of a house should be an opportunity for every player in the game.

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Sure, originally my post started out "If instanced housing or wards 25-80 are coming in 2021, then this is all moot" but I decided to move it to a footnote (my edit on the OP). I moved it mostly because it disrupted the post flow, but also because my suggestion is being made with a mind toward housing as it is now, rather than housing as it should be. My suggestion is coming from a place of "If only 1 in 5 players gets a house, how do you we pick which one?"


*source: https://i.imgur.com/PJfSdux.png courtesy Y'shtola Cat

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Originally Posted by Catstab

40 minus 40 is 0. No one is going to do business just to break even.

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If resellers are successfully getting 40 million for a 3 million gil piece of property right now as you say, what makes you think they won't be able to successfully get 60 or 80 as well if the property price increases?

People always complain about how much things cost - then they turn around and pay the price because they still want to have it.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

My suggestion is coming from a place of "If only 1 in 5 players gets a house, how do you we pick which one?"

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We don't. It's not up to us to decide who does or doesn't deserve to have a house. Housing is part of the base game package. That makes anyone who is paying the subscription fee deserving as long as they meet the requirements for the content, same as any other content.

If SE is not wiling/able to solve the supply issue, it should remain opportunity RNG like so many other items in the game that are effectively limited in quantity due to scarcity (like the Night Pegasus whistle, as an example). You're in the right place at the right time, and you win the roll or have the gil to buy immediately. Maybe you get lucky. Maybe you miss out because someone else got to it first.

Does SE need to adjust the purchase timer? Yes. A range of 2-4 hours is sufficient to let the available property come to the attention of multiple players so a reseller can't just "hand over the keys" to a new buyer.

Does SE need to stop suspending the demo timer? Yes. The compassion for those struggling in real life situations is appreciated but it's being applied in the wrong fashion. Do things that positively impact their real life situation in the moment instead of leaving that expression of compassion in a game the player may not return to for months if at all.

Does SE need to re-evaluate the use of shell FCs for obtaining housing for personal use? Yes. If there's a requirement for FCs to purchase, then there should be a requirement to retain ownership. Truly active FCs aren't going to have a problem. Inactive FCs shouldn't be treated any differently from inactive players. When it's down to one active player, you no longer have a Free Company. You have a mercenary for hire. That solo player shouldn't be getting the benefits intended for a group of players.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And throughout ARR, entire wards were mostly vacant plots. Which kind of defeats the whole point of having a housing system to begin with. Furthermore, it wouldn't do much to deter anyone. Gil has virtually no value anymore due to the massive inflation. So the exorbitant prices wouldn't matter to many players. Not to mention how much worse botting has got. All in all, you're just rewarding the extremely rich players or those willing to RMT.

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Tbf, back in ARR, no one had money. Nowadays there are multiple goldcapped players and 10mil is considered a low and/or somewhat ordinary amount of money in most datacenters and the best way to get a house is through players that are - drumroll - selling most plots at a ballpark reminiscent of ARR pricing. I don't think people are so broke that it would be impossible for them to buy a 30-50mil small given that's what people were paying for them (albeit illegally) during the entire pandemic autodemo off period.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If resellers are successfully getting 40 million for a 3 million gil piece of property right now as you say, what makes you think they won't be able to successfully get 60 or 80 as well if the property price increases?

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They're being paid for being the first person to snap up a 3 million gil item in a sea of people who can afford it.

Fewer people can afford 40m than can afford 3m, so more houses will stay open longer. This means placard hunting is easier, so buyers are less motivated to pay reseller prices when they could do it themselves. With the investment so much higher, many resellers will not be able to afford. Those that can will find fewer buyers than before, less profit being made than before. This will have an undeniable effect on the market. You speak as if because the FC selling market would merely be crippled and not gone, like the relocation market would be, that the solution isn't worth it.

I agree with you that 'housing for all' is best, but I don't think SE is up to giving up 80 wards or giving us instanced housing.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If SE is not wiling/able to solve the supply issue, it should remain opportunity RNG... You're in the right place at the right time, and you win the roll or have the gil to buy immediately.

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That's literally what I'm asking for.

Right now 'the right time' = 'any time between 0-22 hours after this house opened.' Before the timer, the right time was just being the first one to sweep when the house demolished.

Those who have 'the gil to buy immediately' should have the opportunity to do so. They do under my system, and doing so creates a gil sink for billions per year, instead of fueling a exploitative player market.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Fewer people can afford 40m than can afford 3m, so more houses will stay open longer.

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It doesn't matter how many can afford 40 million versus 3 million. What matters is how many houses there will be compared to those who can afford the 40 million.

If we're still only seeing 6-8 houses relinquished/demolished per world a week, those houses won't be staying open any longer than they currently do.

You're also overlooking that if the prices go up, players who want a house will start earning and saving gil for the new price because that's what it will take to get a house.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Those who have 'the gil to buy immediately' should have the opportunity to do so. They do under my system, and doing so creates a gil sink for billions per year, instead of fueling a exploitative player market.

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The exploitive market will continue to exist because the supply is still lacking.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What matters is how many houses there will be compared to those who can afford the 40 million.

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Again, you're reading what I'm saying, and then arguing against me by repeating my points back to me.

Let's put some numbers behind it to fuel the understanding process. Right now we will estimate 90% of players have 3 million gil. 20,000 players per server for this example. So 18,000 people compete for 4,300 personal houses. Outcome = 24% of eligible players can receive housing. We will assume 40% of players per server have 40 million. So with my pricing, we no longer have 18,000 house hunters, we have 8,000. 8,000 people go for 4,300 houses = 54% of eligible players receive housing.

Yes, these numbers are for all currently existing personal houses. You could as easily apply them to new wards. If 480 smalls in 3 new wards cost 3 million each then they have 18,000 eligible buyers and 2.6% of eligible players will get to relocate or purchase in those new wards. If prices go to 40 million then only 8,000 people can afford to buy in the new ward, and 6% of eligible players will get to move in.

"But Catstab, people would just craft, run their roulettes, and play in potd or eureka until they joined that eligible 40%, and it would slowly grow!"

Um, okay. So the people who are currently huddled like seagulls on empty plots would instead go and play the video game till they earned a house? Why, it's almost as if you've discovered the entire foundation of my idea. A 40m price tag measures who is actually playing the game while 3 million can be made watching cutscenes. If we can't make more houses, we need to make players wait longer to get in line for one to keep those lines short.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If we're still only seeing 6-8 houses relinquished/demolished per world a week, those houses won't be staying open any longer than they currently do.

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Severely decreasing the number of people eligible for houses is most definitely going to mean they stay open longer. You have fewer sweepers, fewer shoppers, and with the timer gone the empty plot doesn't spend 8+ hours as a beacon for campers. Plots that close in 1-5 seconds currently would start staying open 1-20 minutes or more.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The exploitive[sic] market will continue to exist because the supply is still lacking.

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Selling FCs would be harder to invest in and return less, the market would exist but only in a phenomenally reduced state. Selling relocation would be next to impossible and would not ever occur for profit. I've already explained why in above posts.

Catstab, what we're all trying to say is that your addressing of the problems doesn't fix any of them. People much smarter than I have already told you why increasing the price tag won't actually fix the issues of FC resale inflation or scalping, and I have already said that your proposal simply puts a very detailed and customizable part of the game even further out of reach of the casual player. You doubling down and using baseless theorycrafting in such a self-assured manner just makes you come off as arrogant.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

Catstab, what we're all trying to say is that your addressing of the problems doesn't fix any of them. People much smarter than I have already told you why increasing the price tag won't actually fix the issues of FC resale inflation or scalping, and I have already said that your proposal simply puts a very detailed and customizable part of the game even further out of reach of the casual player. You doubling down and using baseless theorycrafting in such a self-assured manner just makes you come off as arrogant.

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They aren't going to increase the prices. They will not allow the rich the housing market. They will not allow auctions for housing purchases and they aren't going to institute lotteries. Forum banter about these ideas isn't going anywhere in my opinion. They are and will address the housing shortage in other ways well before they try and do any of this. I think Ishgard and the new servers will be a litmus test for where they plan to take housing. We shouldn't have to wait too long and my bet is we will see significant changes to the supply side. Will it be enough for everyone well probably not unless instanced housing and upgraded apartments are something they have planned.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

increasing the price tag won't actually fix the issues of FC resale inflation or scalping

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Assuming by 'scalping' you mean selling relocations, it would fix that issue. As for FC resale, it would severely reduce that issue. Apparently the 'people much smarter than you' aren't following the conversation either, if that's what they're contributing.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

They aren't going to increase the prices. They will not allow the rich the housing market. They will not allow auctions for housing purchases and they aren't going to institute lotteries. Forum banter about these ideas isn't going anywhere in my opinion. They are and will address the housing shortage in other ways well before they try and do any of this. I think Ishgard and the new servers will be a litmus test for where they plan to take housing. We shouldn't have to wait too long and my bet is 5.0 will see significant changes to the supply side. Will it be enough for everyone well probably not unless instanced housing and upgraded apartments are something they have planned.

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Oh I'm well aware they won't do any of that, and I'm really hoping the increased servers at least give me a chance at a small.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Assuming by 'scalping' you mean selling relocations, it would fix that issue. As for FC resale, it would severely reduce that issue. Apparently the 'people much smarter than you' aren't following the conversation either, if that's what they're contributing.

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So...your idea to fix the problem of FC resale is inflate the prices by 1300%, which doesn't actually get rid of the problem, just puts a higher pricetag on it so casual players will never get to experience it.

I mean, technically you don't have to fix that broken vase if you smash the remains into powder.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

So 18,000 people compete for 4,300 personal houses.

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Except those 18,000 players aren't going to have 4300 personal houses to compete over. They're going to have 6-8 a week, or about 400 a year.

Even Ishgard is only going to add another 1440 houses if it opens as a standard housing district with the same number of wards we currently have in the other districts.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

If 480 smalls in 3 new wards cost 3 million each then they have 18,000 eligible buyers and 2.6% of eligible players will get to relocate or purchase in those new wards. If prices go to 40 million then only 8,000 people can afford to buy in the new ward, and 6% of eligible players will get to move in

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And 480 smalls are not going to last any longer with only 8,000 competing for them than they would with 18,000. You've still got thousands of potential buyers rushing in hoping they'll get one before they're sold out.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

So the people who are currently huddled like seagulls on empty plots would instead go and play the video game till they earned a house

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The people who are currently huddled like seagulls on empty plots are still going to be huddled like seagulls on empty plots because they already own them. SE isn't going to make the purchase price increase retroactive then take houses away from those who don't pay up any more than they're going to take away grandfathered multiple houses.

It's not going to stop more players from buying then sitting on unused plots because they've got nothing better to spend the gil on and once they've paid that one time price it's theirs. They don't have to pay another gil.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Selling FCs would be harder to invest in and return less, the market would exist but only in a phenomenally reduced state. Selling relocation would be next to impossible and would not ever occur for profit. I've already explained why in above posts.

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Increasing prices does nothing to make it next to impossible to resell for profit when players don't have any other substantial purchases to make in this game other than a house and the number of available houses is still much smaller than the number of players able to buy.

There is too much gil being generated on a daily basis and nothing significant taking that gil back out of the system.

"That why we should increase house prices - to take that gil out of the system!"

That only works if there is a house available for every player with the gil to buy. If they can't buy, the gil continues to accumulate in the system.

Right now, only 6-8 players per world get a chance to buy each week. That's not much of a gil sink when you're talking 18,000 players. It would take 43 years for every player to finally have a chance to buy a house at that rate.

If SE doesn't fix the supply problem, increasing the price accomplishes nothing.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

They aren't going to increase the prices. They will not allow the rich the housing market.

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I can see them increasing the prices if they don't solve the supply problem, though I don't see them being increased to the amounts that Catstab is suggesting.

You're right that they're not going to limit housing to the rich but then what is rich these days?

Where are they going to go with this system to address the obvious flaws when it comes to making it engaging content for the entire player base instead of just the small minority that gets lucky? We'll have to wait and see.

Cat? Check

Same old drivel about higher housing prices? Check

Yep, think this is another one of a certain poster's alts who has 49102401295 houses for personal use.

"Now that I own an entire ward, I want the housing prices raised."

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Cat? Check

Same old drivel about higher housing prices? Check

"Now that I own an entire ward, I want the housing prices raised."

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I've posted this suggestion exactly once, I am no one's alt, and I do no own any entire wards. Thanks for coming by though.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That only works if there is a house available for every player with the gil to buy. If they can't buy, the gil continues to accumulate in the system.

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I mentioned in an earlier post that average 790 houses per world sold this year according to data posted by Yshtola Cat. Thats 31.6 billion in placard prices, up from 2.37 billion.

I would say 29.2 billion gil is a significant removal from the system. If each world has 20,000 players that is an average of 1.46 million gil per player, serverwide.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If SE doesn't fix the supply problem, increasing the price accomplishes nothing.


I can see them increasing the prices if they don't solve the supply problem, though I don't see them being increased to the amounts that Catstab is suggesting.

You're right that they're not going to limit housing to the rich but then what is rich these days?

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I do continue to agree that giving us instanced housing or 50 more wards is better than restricting access to artificially add to supply.

But as you say, if they can't/don't fix the supply, they could do something similar to a price increase - realistically, what are the options?
-Change the level requirement of a personal house to 80 (or multiple 80s)
-Change the FC rank requirement to Captain
-Increase the placard price (to me, this option has the most benefits)
-Something absurd like 'amaro club' or 'mentors' or 'savage raiders'

What is rich these days? Certainly not 40 million. I think enough players have it that houses would still sell, but I think few enough people have it that small houses in the goblet would occasionally sit open up to a couple hours.

I still say pricing the houses at or above their true worth is the best way to increase supply and stop resale, and still think it'd allow us to do away with the timer.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

I still say pricing the houses at or above their true worth is the best way to increase supply and stop resale, and still think it'd allow us to do away with the timer.

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So how is "true worth" determined, especially considering different players/FCs buy them for different reasons?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So how is "true worth" determined, especially considering different players/FCs buy them for different reasons?

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People are buying properties at rates in line with what early ARR costs were, that’s probably what he means be true worth.

The method you suggest keeps the gil sellers alive though, so it is definately not an option, the forced wait game is best, because you wont know when the plot is available.... also just report bots at plots, because if they keep clicking at the exact same interval, then that is recorded and a GM can see that interval, assuming having the tools to, and just suspend the account temporarely.

Also give FC's the same terms of condition as a regular player, so you can not just transfer FC's to a person you just got into it, but has to have had at least 2months in that FC to be able to inherit the ultimate boss rank.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

The method you suggest keeps the gil sellers alive though, so it is definately not an option, the forced wait game is best, because you wont know when the plot is available.... also just report bots at plots, because if they keep clicking at the exact same interval, then that is recorded and a GM can see that interval, assuming having the tools to, and just suspend the account temporarely.

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The method I suggest kills one market, and cripples the other. Please explain how one dead and one crippled market are not an improvement as compared to two thriving markets.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

The method I suggest kills one market, and cripples the other. Please explain how one dead and one crippled market are not an improvement as compared to two thriving markets.

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I don't think it should be legal to sell an FC, it is not moral wrong in so many ways in a game that is supposed to be a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game.... and botting can be dealt with.. if spamming same thing for quite a while in an equal interval, just mute the player for spamming that action automaticly for 2 hours.