SE thanks for making this event not gender locked

more options is always better

Yeah. That would have felt really stupid if we could only wear the flowers or only wear the monocle. Good on them to let us choose.

I mean ... can you point out an example of flowers or monocles ever being gender locked outside of that 1 male only mog glam?

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I mean ... can you point out an example of flowers or monocles ever being gender locked outside of that 1 male only mog glam?

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Makai Moon Guide's Circlet = flowers exclusive for female healers

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

Makai Moon Guide's Circlet = flowers exclusive for female healers

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Sooooo just a head gear from a PVP collaboration event with the Garo tv show where in much of the gear is gender locked to I assume stay true to the source materiel?

Given how the devs treat all flowers outside of that event I see no reason to think these would be female only.

Last year's flower crowns were essentially gender-locked. The base designs are different, and the male version is fully dyeable while half the flowers on the female version are permanently bright pink.

I feel like that's enough precedent to anticipate that when this year announced two prizes available instead of one, and there is a "masculine" and "feminine" item, that they might be forced counterparts instead of free-for-all.

Doubly so when we've just had the Valentione sets being separate locked items, including the hats.

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

Makai Moon Guide's Circlet = flowers exclusive for female healers

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Also the Makai Marksman monocle opposite the also-gender-locked butterfly hairpin.

And the Sun Guide counterpart to the flower circlet is a headband, not a monocle, but is still gender-locked headgear.

I wouldn't mind being able to wear the butler glamour set as a female character. Though we would have to let guys wear the maid uniform to be fair. And that just brings up horrible scenes I have witnessed in anime and manga... >.>

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Last year's flower crowns were essentially gender-locked. The base designs are different, and the male version is fully dyeable while half the flowers on the female version are permanently bright pink.

I feel like that's enough precedent to anticipate that when this year announced two prizes available instead of one, and there is a "masculine" and "feminine" item, that they might be forced counterparts instead of free-for-all.

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This is nonsense.
1- This game's devs have given yall zero reason to think that flowers are too "feminine" for men in their eyes.
2- It is completely common place to change models some to suit different genders. The flower crown is a flower crown regardless of the differences. It's not like they turned it into a crown of thorns for men O_o
3- The reward from this event is no different than last year were males get different model that suits them more.

(Unless you think I can't count that dudes get 3 flowers compared to the female 5 ... or tell that these flowers are fairly different flowers ...).

So again, I have no clue why people are fake praising them only to set themselves up to be butt blasted mad again about another gender locking when the devs decide to make something cute for women and give dude something that doesn't leave most dudes feeling left out or with something that would look like crossplay.

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Also the Makai Marksman monocle opposite the also-gender-locked butterfly hairpin.

And the Sun Guide counterpart to the flower circlet is a headband, not a monocle, but is still gender-locked headgear.

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So more Garo TV show gender locked sets as examples (which I assume are linked to characters in the show that match those genders)?
It's almost like they made much of that collaboration event's gear gender locked for a reason.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

This is nonsense.

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Why are you like.... so mad. People are saying "hey thanks for letting us wear both of these in identical ways regardless of character gender" and you're getting all ruffled about how there's no reason to thank SE for that? I hope you don't see everything this negatively.

I don't care - at all - about gender restrictions and who can wear what and who can't. But I'm glad you who do care are getting more content.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Why are you like.... so mad. People are saying "hey thanks for letting us wear both of these in identical ways regardless of character gender" and you're getting all ruffled about how there's no reason to thank SE for that? I hope you don't see everything this negatively.

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Why are you assuming that the poster you quoted is mad? They're expressing an opinion in a perfectly reasonable manner. Not everything has to be some deep slight. :(

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Last year's flower crowns were essentially gender-locked. The base designs are different, and the male version is fully dyeable while half the flowers on the female version are permanently bright pink.

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I don't understand the intention behind gender locking these at all. They're both flower crowns, look very similar and have the same basic shape. They could have made the playerbase even more happy by letting both genders use each of them.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I don't understand the intention behind gender locking these at all. They're both flower crowns, look very similar and have the same basic shape. They could have made the playerbase even more happy by letting both genders use each of them.

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I agree, and I feel like they badly limited the usability of the crowns by implementing them as they did.

Without getting into whys and why nots, it is relatively rare for male characters to use flower decorations even if they can.

Female characters would be more likely to use it on a variety of outfits "just because", but their use is limited by whether the pink coordinates or clashes with the rest of it.

(Meanwhile, the normal flower pins are even more limited by having overbright colours that clash with prettymuch everything in existence.)

Yeah the flower crown thing was weird. It's just a flower crown, so there was no reason for them to be different models that dye differently. Gender locking is weird.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Yeah the flower crown thing was weird. It's just a flower crown, so there was no reason for them to be different models that dye differently. Gender locking is weird.

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I didn't think there was anything particularly odd about it. I'm quite pleased that they were designed with different aesthetics and dye patterns in mind.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Why are you like.... so mad. People are saying "hey thanks for letting us wear both of these in identical ways regardless of character gender" and you're getting all ruffled about how there's no reason to thank SE for that? I hope you don't see everything this negatively.

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... How could you possible think I'm "so mad" for pointing out how silly this is?

1 year ago we got a flower crown for this event. It's the same for both genders, dudes get some extra blue flowers that wont dye and more of their base flowers dye. This is apparently "essentially gender-locked" to this person.
This year women get a hair pin with 5 flowers themed after the event where as dudes get a hair pin with ...3 flowers and said flowers are completely different compared to the female version. Is this not "essentially gender-locked"? To me I'd consider neither gender locked as I pointed out before but apparently only 1 is to these people.

Given that males can wear every crafted flower hair pin (and we just got Hyacinth Corsage to remind people that crafted flower pins are a thing) and there's no thematic connection between flowers and monocles ... why wouldn't both genders get both? How poorly do you think of the devs to think that a mirrored flower pin would be female only?

Feel like gender lock outrage has become a new meme after the Valentines Day. Ignoring that this event is legit how they have done things for the longest time in order to fake praise for unfounded-n-silly fear in a flower pin/ monocle being gendered is ever so strange.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

1 year ago we got a flower crown for this event. It's the same for both genders, dudes get some extra blue flowers that wont dye and more of their base flowers dye. This is apparently "essentially gender-locked" to this person.

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Well it is...male and female characters got different rewards. That's literally the definition of gender locking.

I like how you say it's the same flower crown for both genders and then proceed to point out how the male version is different.

Yes! I knew this topic would pop up XD! Ooooh, my brother owes me 5$ now.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well it is...male and female characters got different rewards. That's literally the definition of gender locking.

I like how you say it's the same flower crown for both genders and then proceed to point out how the male version is different.

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No, they didn't get "different rewards". They both get a flower crown. It looks slightly different on men, but it's the same thing, a flower crown.
Much like how with this event the under shirts are different though everything about the concept is the same. Or like how the Dalmascan Draped Top looks different on men and women. It's cause the devs actually think about making changes to a design that suit an aesthetic.

You're in a thread praising the devs for not gender locking this item ... that looks different on both genders

Again I quote myself.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

(Unless you think I can't count that dudes get 3 flowers compared to the female 5 ... or tell that these flowers are fairly different flowers ...).

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So this is gender locked to you?

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

This year women get a hair pin with 5 flowers themed after the event where as dudes get a hair pin with ...3 flowers and said flowers are completely different compared to the female version. Is this not "essentially gender-locked"? To me I'd consider neither gender locked as I pointed out before but apparently only 1 is to these people.

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To a degree, yes. The exact designs can only be worn by the gender of your character. (I haven't seen the male version of it yet, besides what could be seen on the icon picture, but the flowers didn't look that different.)

The flower crown is a more notable difference in design, because it affects how you can use the item and how it can be coordinated into a glamour.

For example, I made this outfit for my male Elezen using the flower crown.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...41bd3fdc14.jpg

It works because the dyed flowers tone in with the reds and browns of the clothing.

A female character cannot use the same flower crown in an equivalent outfit because the flowers are permanently pink.

Likewise, an outfit that relied on a contrast between pink and blue flowers could only be worn by a female character because that effect cannot be achieved with the male crown.

The fully-dyeable crown is locked to male characters. The contrasting-colour crown is locked to female characters.

But for the corsages, assuming they dye the same (I haven't yet checked), the difference between three flowers and five flowers is unlikely to have the same impact on the overall look of an outfit.

I did find it odd that the 'male' flower crown is better (IE more dyable options) then the female one...

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

(Unless you think I can't count that dudes get 3 flowers compared to the female 5 ... or tell that these flowers are fairly different flowers ...).

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Well this event did it right because players like the female version, duh. Same with Moonfire Happis and Songbird Attire. It's never been about gender locking, just envy.

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Originally Posted by EmoPanther

Yes! I knew this topic would pop up XD! Ooooh, my brother owes me 5$ now.

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Dang, you missed out....Should have bet him $50 XD

Am I missing something here?
This Flower Crown was last Years Reward, and it wasn't genderlocked.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...le_Ladies_Day/

They should follow this example for future events. Less restrictions = more variety and glamour potential.

Honestly I feel like gender locking is just less content. It's up to the devs but more content is good and nothing I'm against unless it's hurt the players.

More options is a win to me. My Hrothgar needs all the headpieces it can get.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Am I missing something here?
This Flower Crown was last Years Reward, and it wasn't genderlocked.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...le_Ladies_Day/

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The issue that people are referring to is that it looks different on male and female characters despite not needing to. Well, I guess nothing really needs to, but nonetheless, most gear items for the chest, hands, legs, and feet tend to look different as I'm sure you're familiar with. But helmets and hats are usually identical, save a few crossover/collab items and likely a couple outliers. But for whatever reason, these flower crowns that had no reason to be different were different. There was no issue relating to the shape or models they were being placed on, but they made them different and even the dye channels were changed. People were annoyed.

This event in did a lot of things I like, actually.

• We get to buy the furniture up-front, no currency farming
• A nice quest with some story and familiar faces
• The repeatable quest is based on other content we've completed, and unlike previous events being able to experience this additional dialog isn't left to RNG, we can choose specifically who we want to visit. I love this.
• Two different glam looks, both usable by all races and genders, can be dyed, and correctly flagged for armoire

While the actual holiday itself isn't a personal favorite and doesn't have a fun instanced thing to do like haunted house or hedge maze, I'm a big fan of how the reward acquisition and bonus dialog are set up this time.

So yes a big Thank You, SE from me.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

To a degree, yes.

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No, it's literally just making design changes to make something look more appealing/ nature for a gender.
Like how they recently talked about how they make changes to helms to make them more suited for which ever race you're playing (They used the Edencall Helm of Fending as a example, showing just how much it changes if you're playing a human vs a lala/ elezen or kitty)

The devs actually take gender aesthetics into consideration when making things work for them.

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(I haven't seen the male version of it yet, besides what could be seen on the icon picture, but the flowers didn't look that different.)

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Dudes get completely different flowers and 2 whole less flowers. The dude flowers have narrow petals that show off more of the hair behind the flowers as well as the branch like pin part.
And ya know what? It looks better on them than the default version would without any changes ... which is why they do this kinda stuff.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Well this event did it right because players like the female version, duh. Same with Moonfire Happis and Songbird Attire. It's never been about gender locking, just envy.

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Pretty much what I've been trying to get at. Like the flower crown ...
"Dudes get some extra prema blue flowers on their flower crown and are able to change the color of the pink flowers unlike the female version to make it look more traditionally male looking? WHHHHY?!?!".
Yet having almost the same thing happen here but liking the female version means it is alllll gooooood lol, these forums are a trip.

I too am happy to have both options, especially since I’m not a monocle person and have a love affair with peaches and their blooms. I need to put together an outfit using the peach blooms because I love it.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

And ya know what? It looks better on them than the default version would without any changes ... which is why they do this kinda stuff.

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What looks better or not is personal preference, so there is no reason for them to do this kind of stuff at all, at least when it comes to aesthetics.

If the flowers are different, then it sounds like it kind of is gender "locked." And again I like the guys' version better.

Oh well again I guess lmfao

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

What looks better or not is personal preference, so there is no reason for them to do this kind of stuff at all, at least when it comes to aesthetics.

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There are design principals that are not ruled by personal preference. Personal Pref refers to what YOU like on a personal level, doesn't mean things can't properly play towards an aesthetic to make a more pleasing visual.

They make changes to things to match the aesthetics of the model/ race/ gender the item is showing on.

If you don't think this flower pin plays better with the male aesthetic than this flower then that's your opinion and IDK how to help you. The Devs who know design clearly thought it works better that way and I see their logic and agree with their call.

The reason they "do this kinda stuff" is so that people who play males can have things that look good on them, flow well with their design and look like what a guy would wear even if it's traditionally seen as female focused. So that they can put on an item and feel good about how it looks on their character. So yeah, making the changes they did made it look like something a dude might wear as opposed to something designed just for girls or women that HAPPENS to be slapped on a dude.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

If you don't think this flower pin plays better with the male aesthetic than this flower then that's your opinion and IDK how to help you. The Devs who know design clearly thought it works better that way and I see their logic and agree with their call.

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No one needs help with their opinions. The female version does look better on males and vice versa if that is what someone thinks.

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The reason they "do this kinda stuff" is so that people who play males can have things that look good on them, flow well with their design and look like what a guy would wear even if it's traditionally seen as female focused.

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If each flower piece was its own glam and a player could choose which to use, none of this would be lost. Flow has nothing to do with locking glams. It's either about purposely restricting choice or lessening the work that the devs have to do. It's their game so either is fair, but there is no benefit to locking glams.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

No one needs help with their opinions. The female version does look better on males and vice versa if that is what someone thinks.

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Don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying I can't help your understanding of aesthetics and design as it's a topic too grand for these post.

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If each flower piece was its own glam and a player could choose which to use, none of this would be lost.

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Why though?
Why does every model with any differences need to be wearable by everyone?
Does this go for race to?
Does a boy elezen need to be able to wear the helm of a boy kitty?

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Flow has nothing to do with locking glams. It's either about purposely restricting choice or lessening the work that the devs have to do. It's their game so either is fair, but there is no benefit to locking glams.

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.... Wut are you even talking about anymore?
I was trying to explain why the version on the male was made to look that way (cause it looks like something a guy might want to wear that looks good on them.) So because they made changes to a design to make it look good on dudes they have to then allow females to use that exact same model?

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

No, it's literally just making design changes to make something look more appealing/ nature for a gender.

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And those design changes can drastically - and in the case of the crowns, arbitrarily - change how the item can be used.

I agree there is a very long history of things being designed as "gender-tailored" counterparts, but there is no consistency between the degree of difference and whether they are presented as two gender-locked items or one unisex item that changes appearance.

e.g. the Moonfire Vest and Moonfire Halter are the exact same shirt with the necessary addition of a bikini top for the female version, but the single-item Endless Summer Top is entirely different based on character gender.

There's nothing wrong with making counterparts where each design suits the gender and is modelled to fit them, because the male and female body pieces do need to be modelled separately regardless. (Though I don't like the approach they often take of making the female version of clothes more revealing - but that's a separate argument.)

But hats fit everyone and there's nothing really specific about those crowns. They could have been made into two separate items - say, "Flower Crown" and "Daisy Crown" - and make both available to everyone. They wouldn't need any extra modelling work and, as you say, flower hairpins are usually unisex without any modification.

Having had a better look at both versions of the peach corsage, the choice of different flowers is a bit strange but, as I wrote previously, the degree of difference is not the same. Both versions are pink and have the same overall shape. You dye it blue, and both versions turn blue.

You might not see a difference, but clearly a number of other people do.



Also, re. something you said yesterday...

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

1- This game's devs have given yall zero reason to think that flowers are too "feminine" for men in their eyes.

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I would say the quest itself gives us reason to think that the rewards would be gendered. Look at how they're given out in the quest: peach corsages for the three girls (nothing for Hyuran Boy) and the monocle for Damielliot.

There's also the names of the items themselves: princess's corsage and seneschal's monocle - particularly as "seneschal" has previously been used for the male-exclusive counterpart to the Songbird dress.



To be clear: yes, I agree the corsages are noticeably different between the genders - but unlike the crowns, I don't think the difference has a significant impact on the overall look of the item. Especially if you're not looking up close but just seeing from a distance that they have a coloured flower pin that matches their outfit.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

If you don't think this flower pin plays better with the male aesthetic than this flower then that's your opinion and IDK how to help you. The Devs who know design clearly thought it works better that way and I see their logic and agree with their call.

The reason they "do this kinda stuff" is so that people who play males can have things that look good on them, flow well with their design and look like what a guy would wear even if it's traditionally seen as female focused. So that they can put on an item and feel good about how it looks on their character. So yeah, making the changes they did made it look like something a dude might wear as opposed to something designed just for girls or women that HAPPENS to be slapped on a dude.

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The problem with this is now that I have seen the male flower pin up close...I actually prefer it to the female version. But I can't access it unless I fantasia. Yay.

I don't like that the devs keep deciding what men and women should be wearing. Just let everyone wear what they want regardless of gender. Let everyone have the same choices in outfits no matter what their character is.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Well this event did it right because players like the female version, duh. Same with Moonfire Happis and Songbird Attire. It's never been about gender locking, just envy.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The problem with this is now that I have seen the male flower pin up close...I actually prefer it to the female version. But I can't access it unless I fantasia. Yay.

I don't like that the devs keep deciding what men and women should be wearing. Just let everyone wear what they want regardless of gender. Let everyone have the same choices in outfits no matter what their character is.

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Dammit, I spoke too soon.

It's good that both genders can wear both itemes, but the fact that the flowers are different between genders is a complete waste of dev time.

It's just as stupid as last years flower crown and I don't understand why they are doing it. As if "three flowers with narrow petals" is more male or female than "five flowers with wider petals". The difference is just dumb as hell and baits complaints from people who prefer the other style.