Just wondering bc there was none mentioned in prelim notes. I realize that yp didn't want to release them early, but there wasn't even a placeholder text saying job adjustments to be revealed in final notes.
Say it isn't so.... I'm beyond disappointed if that's the case
So no job adjustments in 5.2?
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02-15-2020, 05:24 AMNyneSwordzSo no job adjustments in 5.2?
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02-15-2020, 05:45 AMHeulGDarian
Nah there are changes its Just theyve decided to no longer give much info cause People are acting like doomsday is upon them every time a nerf comes. Forums peeps arent that civil either so ye.... We now have to w8 the official patch notes
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02-15-2020, 06:09 AMDrWho2010
it was mentioned in the live letter and detailed in the digest post on the forum. but then most people don't read/watch things so *shrug*
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02-15-2020, 06:12 AMshao32
There will be ajustments, for tanks only WAR will get some as far as we know and until the final notes we don't know what they are doing with it.
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02-15-2020, 07:54 AMDRKoftheAzure
I honestly believe that the devs aren't going to touch DRK for PVE until maybe either 5.3 at the earliest or 6.0 at the latest, and even if they do make adjustments on DRK they just make it even more boring than it is right now...
I also do not care for tank changes for the rest of the expansion because of poorly changes to tanks were made with maybe 2 tank being an exception past certain levels, but they way they did tank changes makes it impossible to actually go do older content synced as a tank because at most levels, tanks only have one combo that really matters...
All the devs had to do for tanking in terms of enmity management was remove enmity management from everyone that wasn't a tank, keep enmity combos in the game, keep Ultimatum role action and buff like they buffed Provoke, delete Shirk from role action and only add new abilities if it doesn't cause more ability bloat or ability pruning, otherwise just add more traits... -
02-15-2020, 11:30 AMWhyAmIHereAll I wanna ask for: give Blood Weapon the Bunshin treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
15s. next 5 weaponskills and/or spells (whatever the wording is) generates MP and 10 blood.
Is that too much to ask for? -
02-15-2020, 12:01 PMHierroThat's overkill, they just need to make it work as it should! They just need to make it last 10 seconds like every other 10 second buff, and no one gets hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere
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02-15-2020, 12:27 PMWhyAmIHereOh but it does last 10 seconds. 10.3 seconds. it's just that IR/Del last 10.8 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hierro
It'd also address their AoE being unaffected by SkS, so you'd always get those 50 blood and x MP gains while in BW. Just like how Infuriate is always going to give you 50 beast gauge.
EDIT:: And if that's not good enough of an argument to make then why's Requiescat last 12 seconds? To account for PLD's SkS and the cast time on Holy [spell]? Oh wait, that was removed when Req was traited to remove cast times on their spells... but it still lasts 12 seconds.
Big think. -
02-15-2020, 01:11 PMNyneSwordz
I'm anxious to find out the war adjustments. I hope it's good. Especially for PvP. I'm kinda worried about the inc Holmgang nerf, I hope it doesn't destroy fun in Frontlines. I also hope NF gets it's target requirement removed - especially for pvp. War self sustain in PvP could use a huge boost too... currently the worst out of all the tanks...
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02-15-2020, 01:32 PMDuskanereally only nerf Holm should get imo is the multiple chain pullQuote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
shouldnt be able to pull someone with multiple holmgang -
02-15-2020, 05:07 PMBarretOblivion
Major adjustments won't come to tanks unless they specifically say they are looking at all of them, and chances are none of the tanks will get anything signficant until 6.0 with reworks "if they even do that".
I would say 2/4 tanks being GNB and PLD are fine and need to expand upon what they have as kits come 6.0.
DRK needs a rework to Delirum and looked at giving it a GCD combo, maybe a combo ending in Scourge returning.
WAR... *scratches head* Look I know some people think WAR should keep its fell cleave spam, and well I can see it staying as part of the job, that doesn't mean everything else flat out sucks to play as WAR. Once you can't spam fell cleaves the job sucks, so they need to look at what it does outside of fell cleave spam really carefully. Look at its beast gauge being something more meaningful. I would also argue reverting the DH/CRIT change to the job. It was a rushed patchwork for its random damage in SB, but they figured out how to get around that with DRK not needing the DH/CRIT on its Delirum so no reason why WAR needs that anymore and just let us finally start melding DH and not groan when we have a DRG or a BRD in the party. -
02-16-2020, 02:05 AMVenKitsune
Job adjustments are no longer displayed in preliminary patch notes, or in live letters.
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02-16-2020, 03:23 AMKaiserdracheThis wont change, even if the info comes first when the patch is there. In fact the wave of negativity will be then much stronger and worser, because people will know then, that they have no time to voice their feedback, before its too late, leading to frustration and angryness over that fact to have to suffer under the changes several months before they get possibly reverted, when the next bigger patch comes.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeulGDarian
If they tell us the planned job changes long enough before the patch comes, the negativity will still be there, but it will subdue over time and be weaker for when patch day is, because people had then time to voice their opinions, discuss things n literally let this way steam off as a reaction
You know, there are moments, where people just need their time to basically rant over something, and once done, they feel better.
But just making changes and telling people first on patch day what has been changed all on their beloved played jobs is on the side of SE just playing with fire n risking uneccessary shitstorms, because the immediate wave of negativity will always be much more powerful n intense, when people get to know changes first, when its right in their faces already there like a bad surprise.
But give people time to think and sleep over changes and you'll see people will be much more able to arrange themself with the changes -
02-16-2020, 01:51 PMNyneSwordzI don't think this is an issue, and I don't think SE thinks so either. Because the notes specifically said they are fixing Holmgang for Feast, and hopefully, the fix/nerf won't affect Frontlines too much. Multiple Holmgangs are only an issue in Frontlines, so I'm sure the holmgang fix has nothing to do with that. And it's not even a real issue tbh. When was the last time anyone got chain holmganged? You get holmganged once and you're pretty much dead already anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
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02-16-2020, 10:18 PMVideraThis can only go well.Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
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02-19-2020, 05:02 AMMaltothoris
Wel there was only one change for war and that the percentage of shake it off going from 12 to 15 percent. While this makes war shields a little stronger it’s kinda laughable at best with this change.
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02-19-2020, 08:51 AMNyneSwordzIt's pathetic. I'm done with ffxiv until they change or remove/replace nf. I hate the self target requirement so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltothoris
I want bloodbath back. Or just give me back inner beast. Nf is terrible. -
02-19-2020, 10:56 AMAuridaLiterally they gave you a skill that lets you rep 2.5k+ healing per second for an entire fight, fully heal yourself after tankbusters or in dungeon trash pulls, and in PvP give lifesteal to yourself and a party member and damage reduction to someone else. This is one of the most broken skills in the entire history of FF14 and we have people unsubbing and crying for a full Warrior rework because... you have to press two buttons to target it? Nascent Flash is blatantly ridiculous in the best way, just make a macro or something, manQuote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
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02-19-2020, 12:54 PMNyneSwordzI have a macro and it works fine. I dont like being forced to use a macro tho. Nor do i like having to retarget npcs during instanced quests after segment breaks in order to cast nf with my macro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurida
Why does it have to have a target requirement? It sucks bc of the target requirement. Not everything needs to be about balance or power. Sometimes you just want a skill to be fun to use.
It is not fun now. In frontlines it sucks that you cant even use it on an alliance member. It sucks that you stand no chance if caught 1v1 against any other tank because of this ridiculous party target requirement.
It. Is. Not. Fun.
That is my complaint.
After years of bloodbath, inner beast allowing me to have fun in pvp and saving dungeon runs with self sustain, and then now having to deal with this ridiculous party target requirement, no, i want bloodbath or inner beast back.
Make a new action for party utility. Nf is terrible.
Funny thing is, they changed dragons eye for dragoons to allow use without target requirement, but they leave it for nf. Why?
Nf is terrible. -
02-19-2020, 03:28 PMAuridause raw intuition then lolQuote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
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02-19-2020, 04:57 PMBarretOblivionThe fact you don't get the idea that NF is terrible as a required OT skill is the fact you don't get. All the other tanks have a far more superior OT skill being usefull in fights to help mitigation. WAR's NF is awful, 10% is the same as a reprisal... and the heal is only good for the WAR themselves... your OT who would need the skill only gets 50% of the healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurida
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02-19-2020, 05:15 PMFallenWings
Til a ~60k self heal, ~30k target heal and 10% mitigation for target is worse than a 30k shield for one target. /s
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02-19-2020, 05:45 PMArgyle_Darkheart
Nascent Flash is amazing and is honestly the only thing keeping WAR competitive.
I can appreciate, to a certain extent, the frustration with requiring a target and/or encouraging macro use, but blanket statements like "Nf is terrible" are simply ridiculous. -
02-19-2020, 05:50 PMAuridaWhat hits are these off-tank WARs letting their other tank take, anyway? I know I ain't falling down in one shot if I don't get a boosted Intervention. You get the best invuln in the game and the ability to nearly fully heal yourself after using it but complain because targeting it is inconvenient.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
You know what, sure- just add the lifesteal to raw intuition too. Maybe also give Maim a potency increase to even out the 5% DPS difference between tanks cuz no WAY should someone with a wimpy sword should be outdamaging me, the guy with the huge axe, and hey wait why is everyone running double WAR now? -
02-19-2020, 06:46 PMNedkel
I hate it for the sole reason of requiring second player to activate it.
It heals the same as bloodbath, only 50% of dealt damage is coming back to us in form of HP and has only 6 seconds meaning you really could only fit in 3 GCD and have to line it up with you best skills to get most out, so basically you cant use it whenever its up and if you do you are gimping yourself by doing so.
Its a terrible skill and requires a macro which makes it even worse, because macro has to contain several lines of code and is INCREDIBLY slow to use (and sometimes just does not work after pressing you have to press this trash multiple times because macros in this game are completely retarded) which makes double weaving with infuriate a pure nightmare. To make most out of it you need to use it with infuriate, but you cant do it without clipping it into your GCD. This particular ability messes up so badly that i end up not using it at all.
I would pay real money for it being replaced with blood bath, i hate it with passion i dont care for a healing to second person or any damage reduction, its trash anyway and it could go away. -
02-21-2020, 06:11 AMAurelius2625
Are you for real dawg? WHAT DOUBLE WEAVING ON WAR? OMEGALUL.
"It's trash and worse than bloodbath"...what? What is this even? It's literally a 60k heal if used properly FOR FREE. PLD has to jank their entire rotation to get what you get for free. In IR it's outrageous. You should ALWAYS have ONE charge of Infuriate so at bear minimum that's a 27k-ish heal FOR FREE. Just doing a single weave with a macro. WAR has NO double weaves.
NF is the only tank CD that can be used after the fact, to heal up after damage has happened other than GNB's aurora, which is far, far inferior to NF's heal. Because of that, Holmgang is no where near as bad as LD is for DRK. In fact, with Equilibrium and NF boosted by Thrill, you get so much healing that it's not even a bother to be at 1hp anymore.
NF literally makes you immortal for AoE situations.
NF is far, far better than Raw. In the amount that you heal it takes raw like lethal levels of damage being done to, to even come close to mitigating the same amount of healing you get from NF. -
02-21-2020, 09:29 PMBrandedbladeThat video on youtube where the person is discussing how powerful NF is in alex ultimate would disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarretOblivion
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02-21-2020, 10:42 PMKalise
TFW as a Gunbreaker, I'd kill to have Raw Intuition's 20% mitigation instead of Heart of Stone's 15%...
Meanwhile, Warrior's are complaining about how annoying it is to use their, superior, "Ally" skill for mitigation via healing and how much it "Sucks".
50% healing off of 3 GCD's (On a job focused around landing big crits) and 10% damage reduction.
vs
15% damage reduction and a 3k shield (Isn't Heart of Stone just great!?)
Oh, and with NF, the Warrior who cast it is also getting a truckload of HP to boot while GNB, PLD and DRK get NOTHING when they cast their ally skill on an ally.
:rolleyes: -
02-21-2020, 11:40 PMBarretOblivionDRK gets thier MP back in the form of a free cast on edge or flood. PLD shares a cooldown with thier co-tank giving them 50% of thier mitigation +10% which helps both when split tankbusters exist. GNBs Heart of Stone is Free and doesn't override another cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalise
What's your point? Oh yeah you could possibly get a big heal that is reduced by 50% on a tankbuster... if you plan to do so and hold off on skills to set it up. Or you could just... have an impactful OT skill without any need for much set up for basically the same benifit. -
02-21-2020, 11:59 PMKaliseThey get their MP back...Quote:
Originally Posted by BarretOblivion
Meanwhile, NF costs nothing...
PLD doesn't get anything from using Intervention.Quote:
PLD shares a cooldown with thier co-tank giving them 50% of thier mitigation +10% which helps both when split tankbusters exist.
Popping another CD doesn't count as getting something from the skill.
Yeah, but it only affects ONE target. You can use it on yourself OR on an ally.Quote:
GNBs Heart of Stone is Free and doesn't override another cooldown.
NF gives healing to the Warrior that uses it AND gives healing and DR to the ally it's used on.
Even with 0 set up, you get basically a better HoS from your 123 combo plus the 10% DR since that'll push out a lot more healing than the garbage that is the shared Brutal Shell shield which will likely outperform the measly 5% DR difference.Quote:
What's your point? Oh yeah you could possibly get a big heal that is reduced by 50% on a tankbuster... if you plan to do so and hold off on skills to set it up. Or you could just... have an impactful OT skill without any need for much set up for basically the same benifit.
If you actually play with half a brain, you'll float an Infuriate charge and be able to use that to get a massive burst heal out on demand.
Also, again, NO OTHER TANK IN THE GAME gets a defensive boost from using their ally skill on an ally.
Meanwhile, most Warriors ignore their "Self" skill, because the defensive bonus they recieve from their "Ally" skill is far superior. (Especially when you consider diminishing returns on stacked damage reduction CD's making healing and shielding even stronger during times when you'd also be popping Rampart/your 30% CD) -
02-22-2020, 12:10 AMNedkelInfuriate + Nascent flash, since you want to use it on highest damage skillQuote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius2625
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02-22-2020, 04:19 AMBrannagh
Tanks complaining about things homogenized: Tanks feel THE SAME, WAR and DRK both just cycle through rotations of pushing 1 button. There is no IDENTITY. WAR has NO complexity to fill in the downtime.
Tanks complaining about Nascent Flash: How DARE I be made to line up my cool downs to work with an ability and plan during my down time. WAR should work THE SAME as other tanks and only push 1 BUTTON.
I don't think this game is perfect, and WAR definitely needs some extra filler mechanic, but damn this NF conversation is getting as tired as Living Dead. -
02-22-2020, 04:49 AMBarretOblivionI vehemently disagree. From my experience even large save ups and floating for NF has almost 0 effect on my co-tank even getting a 'big heal' when a heal can just... use a OGCD like they are already doing to heal that amount. I am looking at my other tank, not myself when it comes to an OT skill, and its effect is very unnoticable, a 50% reduced heal is a minor help, damage reduction is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalise
Also PLD... have you done savage E2S? There are tankbusters now that target both tanks, making Intervention the BEST OT skill in the game during these fights. The point of an OT skill is to help with tank busters and assist in them. NF is the worst to do that if it mitigates only 10%, even if you do heal them a bit after it requires your team to heal much faster due to your HP being lower after a tank buster.
Then we have the issue of basically needing it to be on a macro and there have been times where I can sit there mashing NF macro and my character sits there like a brick while my co-tank gets a tankbuster to the face and NF refuses to go off. Now yes, that's the issue with the macro, but hey NF needs a macro to use properly so what can you do.
And lets talk about brutal shell... did you forget you get a shield on top of the heal to? People tend to forget that but its okay.
Even if you argue NF is 'okay' its not the best OT skill, that goes to DRK hands down. Its a strong shield, faster cooldown than NF, can be used on themselves or their co-tank, and hey, you don't over cap or get a diminishing return if you don't get healer shield. So why pick WAR when DRK is a better version of it? -
02-22-2020, 05:41 AMKaliseBut that's when you pop other CD's.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarretOblivion
If popping other CD's is how we define the worth of skills, then NF is imba if you pop it with Holmgang!! Not only does NF then make you invincible but you also are protecting/healing your OT!!!
:rolleyes:
For dual tankbusters, PLD can take the lead with the strongest kit to aid with them, either through Cover or Intervention plus self CD's.
However, Intervention itself doesn't actually provide the PLD themselves with any mitigation. Neither does TBN or HoS when used on allies.
NF, is the only skill that DOES provide something defensive to both the caster and the target.
Uhh...Quote:
The point of an OT skill is to help with tank busters and assist in them. NF is the worst to do that if it mitigates only 10%, even if you do heal them a bit after it requires your team to heal much faster due to your HP being lower after a tank buster.
That's why you are healing them with NF...
NF sacrifices raw damage reduction, for much better heal regain after the fact (Since, unless you're a complete dunce with paper for gear, you should be able to survive a Tankbuster without the 5% DR difference between NF and the worst short CD tank skill, HoS)
The fact that this healing, affects both the Warrior AND their target (Albeit only at half capacity) is what makes the skill so strong.
Welcome to literally every Tank?Quote:
Then we have the issue of basically needing it to be on a macro
Due to FFXIV not using a dual targetting system, pretty much every tank needs a macro to effectively apply their skills to their ally.
And now you can still pop your NF and heal them after the fact...Quote:
I can sit there mashing NF macro and my character sits there like a brick while my co-tank gets a tankbuster to the face and NF refuses to go off.
Unlike every other Tanks skills which won't do anything if your macro fudges up and you don't land it before the tankbuster... (But hey, at least a GNB can pop Aurora which might tick once before a healer tops them off!)
The heal doesn't get passed through HoS. Only the shield does. Which, might not be so bad, but it's 50:50. Overall the same potency as WAR/DRK combo heals, but half a heal and half as a shield and only that shield part is granted to the ally when you use HoS.Quote:
And lets talk about brutal shell... did you forget you get a shield on top of the heal to? People tend to forget that but its okay.
"have you done savage E2S? There are tankbusters now that target both tanks"Quote:
Even if you argue NF is 'okay' its not the best OT skill, that goes to DRK hands down. Its a strong shield, faster cooldown than NF, can be used on themselves or their co-tank, and hey, you don't over cap or get a diminishing return if you don't get healer shield.
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02-22-2020, 06:18 AMLucy_Pyre
I don't understand, we have people complaining about Nascent Flash being bad? *scratches head*
Sure, the actual healing amount is variable since it's based on damage and in the absolute worst case scenario (you can only spend Maim, Heavy Swing, and Storm's Path/Eye on it) the heal amount is negligible, you should more or less always have at least one charge of Infuriate ready to use, so any time you need a big chunk of healing you'll be able to get at least around 30-35k minimum (which is just a few thousand HP below what TBN mitigates for on a full 470 tank with food+party buffs). The skill only gets stronger and stronger if we factor in its higher potential healing amounts when used during the burst portions of your rotation. The rough maximum that NF is capable of healing for is around 85k HP if used with 2 Inner Chaos charges and an IR Fell Cleave + Upheaval. Granted, its need to be used lining up perfectly with that is more or less extremely unlikely to ever happen. Regardless, even if you just use it during IR and get 3x FC and an Upheaval in the heal that'll still be around 65k-ish, or almost double what TBN mitigates for.
I just don't understand how anyone can attempt to argue that Nascent Flash is anything but the strongest cooldown in the game next to The Blackest Night, because its power is ridiculous when used properly and especially if it lines up with your burst. -
02-22-2020, 06:06 PMBluexBird
Nobody is saying that NF is a bad skill. They just don't like the fact that we have to use it on a party member in order to get its benefits.
We want to be able to cast it on ourselves so that it's usable in the open-world, and in situations where the whole party is dead and fight is almost over.
But for me, the absolutely most best thing is if they changed it so that if we cast it onto a party member, they get the full healing effect (while we get nothing). That would make it a proper support ability. But just as long as we're also able to use it on ourselves, people will be happy.