[Feedback][GNB] Blasting Zone should have same CD than Gnashing Fang

Hello.

Blasting Zone's CD should be affected by Skill Speed just like Gnashing Fang does.

Its not a big change, but it'd help making Blasting Zone fit into Gnashing Fang combo always at the same time.

NO! IT WOULD MAKE GNB WORSE!

I mean if you can't use your eyes to check an oGCD come off CD, then press it, there is very little doubt this change would make any difference.

No, the GCD difference on the Renzokuken combo is about 1.6 seconds with 1800ish SkS. All this does is account for occasional GCD float such that it helps the combo align with our other CD's a bit better. It's the same principle behind Sonic Break.

Blasting Zone, being our strongest single-target attack at a whopping 800 oGCD potency, fits nicely at 30s because it doesn't have to account for GCD float, and this means it's easily up every time No Mercy is available.

Blasting Zone should be a cone!

Make it trend!

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Blasting Zone should be a cone!

Make it trend!

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Make Danger Zone a cone AoE and Blasting Zone is seperate line AoE which increases their DPS even more in both single and multi target. I want that just as much as better DRK gameplay...

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

... but it'd help making Blasting Zone fit into Gnashing Fang combo always at the same time.

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It already does.


UNLESS youre NOT using a rotation.



added note: making blasting zone a GCD instead of an oGCD means you would NOT use blasting during a gnashing fang. like sonic break, it would COMPETE with gnashing fang. meaning this change is the OPPOSITE of your stated desire.

I dont know if ppl read before posting...

Where did i say that Blasting zone should be a GCD?

I just said that Blasting Zone being affected by Skill Speed would fit better into Gnashing Fang Combo.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Where did i say that Blasting zone should be a GCD?

I just said that Blasting Zone being affected by Skill Speed would fit better into Gnashing Fang Combo.

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when you wanted an ABILITY to work like a GCD.


the only reason that gnashing fang's cooldown is even affected by Skill Speed at all is because its a WEAPONSKILL; a GCD.
the reason Blasting zone is NOT, is because its an ABILITY.


applying basic logic, critical thinking, and common sense, we get that you either you want to;
a) change all abilities to be affected by SkS. (because screw casters)
b) change a singular exclusive ability in a specific and favored way that no other action at all has ever been given before and screw over an already delicate balance of classes. (this is more of what youre claiming to want, and the worst of the 3, imo)

OR

c) change blasting zone into a GCD to match gnashing.


The really confusing thing about all this is that..... Blasting zone as it is.... is already used at the exact same 2 points in the rotation;
Double weaved after sonic break. (which is used between gnashing fang and savage claw during nor mercy)
Double weaved after continuation- the oGCD that you can only use during gnashing fang.

both of these very specific timings appear to be perfectly lined up with the use of gnashing fang.


If they are not lining up for you, you need at least 1300 SkS for a 2.41s GCD and to practice the rotation a bit more util you get the hang of it. If you do not know the rotation, it isnt exactly hidden, and worst case scenario, The Balance discord isnt private; join there and set yourself up with the GNB resources.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

b) change a singular exclusive ability in a specific and favored way that no other action at all has ever been given before and screw over an already delicate balance of classes. (this is more of what youre claiming to want, and the worst of the 3, imo)

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I'm sorry but there was a skill that worked like the OP is suggesting, it was bard's empyreal arrow before they made it an ability this expansion which imo sucks since now it drifts. But before it was classified as a weaponskill, which did benefit from sks, that didn't share a cd with anything and was used as an ogcd.

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Originally Posted by Mononoke_Hime

I'm sorry but there was a skill that worked like the OP is suggesting, it was bard's empyreal arrow before they made it an ability this expansion which imo sucks since now it drifts. But before it was classified as a weaponskill, which did benefit from sks, that didn't share a cd with anything and was used as an ogcd.

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Now I'll admit to not being up to date on bard since 5.0, so I cant speak on if its an ability ot weaponskill right now,

but if we're talking in the PAST, then empyreal arrow was a weaponskill- in fact, it was basically the basis for how Gnashing fang works now(among the slew of other CD based GCDs across the jobs). It used to be unique to bard- allowing them an action that would work with barrage without competing with their other weaponskills.

It was not an Ability that was affected by Skill Speed, so no. Its not what OP is or was asking for. or what you quoted me speculating. I was specifically saying a singular Ability that was affected in this way. Empyreal comes close, but it was a Weaponskill, not an Ability. I could have been clearer.

....nor does it change the fact that Blasting zone is already fulfilling the role they want it to, so there's nothing to even change


slight sleep deprived brain edit:
I can see this all coming to agreement if we were to say make blasting a weaponskill that ISNT tied to GCD like old empyreal, and if thats what you're saying, then you would be correct. However, at that point, it is an incredibly arbitrary and useless classification at best, because it literally changes nothing-

if anything it's a nerf, because it would start to desync like gnashing does (because it would be slightly less than 30s), but be unable to be re-aligned with burst strike(because it wouldnt share a CD with other skills), and hilariously would mean it would STOP aligning with burst strike entirely. yknow. the thing OP wants it to do better. the only way to NOT desync is to hold for when they align- completely nullfying and ignoring it's benefit from SkS in the first place.

I really am completely baffled by what this really addresses or changes.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Danger Zone is cone AoE and Blasting Zone is seperate line AoE which increases their DPS even more. I want that just as much as better DRK gameplay...

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this is incorrect. It's a single target skill for both, danger zone is just the starting ability, blasting zone is your upgraded damage one.

Others have said it already too, blasting zone is fine as it is.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

Now I'll admit to not being up to date on bard since 5.0, so I cant speak on if its an ability ot weaponskill right now,

but if we're talking in the PAST, then empyreal arrow was a weaponskill- in fact, it was basically the basis for how Gnashing fang works now(among the slew of other CD based GCDs across the jobs). It used to be unique to bard- allowing them an action that would work with barrage without competing with their other weaponskills.

It was not an Ability that was affected by Skill Speed, so no. Its not what OP is or was asking for. or what you quoted me speculating. I was specifically saying a singular Ability that was affected in this way. Empyreal comes close, but it was a Weaponskill, not an Ability. I could have been clearer.

....nor does it change the fact that Blasting zone is already fulfilling the role they want it to, so there's nothing to even change


slight sleep deprived brain edit:
I can see this all coming to agreement if we were to say make blasting a weaponskill that ISNT tied to GCD like old empyreal, and if thats what you're saying, then you would be correct. However, at that point, it is an incredibly arbitrary and useless classification at best, because it literally changes nothing-

if anything it's a nerf, because it would start to desync like gnashing does (because it would be slightly less than 30s), but be unable to be re-aligned with burst strike(because it wouldnt share a CD with other skills), and hilariously would mean it would STOP aligning with burst strike entirely. yknow. the thing OP wants it to do better. the only way to NOT desync is to hold for when they align- completely nullfying and ignoring it's benefit from SkS in the first place.

I really am completely baffled by what this really addresses or changes.

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Sorry again and I don't have anything really to pick out of this but I do understand all that and I'm not saying it's exactly what the OP wants just the closest thing I can think of. But I agree with everyone else and just to leave it as is. I dont see a point to change it.

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Originally Posted by Valic

this is incorrect. It's a single target skill for both, danger zone is just the starting ability, blasting zone is your upgraded damage one.

Others have said it already too, blasting zone is fine as it is.

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I edited the post to better reflect that what you quoted is just wishful thinking.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

I dont know if ppl read before posting...

Where did i say that Blasting zone should be a GCD?

I just said that Blasting Zone being affected by Skill Speed would fit better into Gnashing Fang Combo.

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Don't worry, that's what most people do on forums.

I made a similar post on the general discussion forum. One of the replies said it would desync party buffs... which... if they would've read the very f*ckin first sentence of my OP would not happen... and their post is the most upvoted... nobody reads your post, just the title and don't bother. It's sad, you want to start a discussion and they don't even read your statement.

Anyway, I get you, and agree that SkS should also affect 'weaponskill-oGCDs' like Blasting Zone. Similar - if not the same - as Empyreal Arrow pre-ShB.

And for all the other naysayer: No, it will NOT be worse, on the contrary.
B/c Blasting Zone as an ability clips everytime it's ready, it desyncs on its own. After 5-6 mins it will desync by ~10s. It's not much, but noticeable. And it from there on onward, it will not fit into Trick Attack anymore, and soon not in Chain or Divination neither.
Blasting Zone as a weaponskill-oGCD like pre-ShB Empyreal Arrow will always fit into your own and the parties' buff windows. If it desyncs with your buff windows it's your own fault, just like it's your own fault when Gnashing Fang desyncs.
If BZ becomes a weaponskill-oGCD, you'll have control over BZ and GF getting out of sync from your party buffs. Right now - BZ as normal ability - you have no control over this!

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Don't worry, that's what most people do on forums.

I made a similar post on the general discussion forum. One of the replies said it would desync party buffs... which... if they would've read the very f*ckin first sentence of my OP would not happen... and their post is the most upvoted... nobody reads your post, just the title and don't bother. It's sad, you want to start a discussion and they don't even read your statement.

Anyway, I get you, and agree that SkS should also affect 'weaponskill-oGCDs' like Blasting Zone. Similar - if not the same - as Empyreal Arrow pre-ShB.

And for all the other naysayer: No, it will NOT be worse, on the contrary.
B/c Blasting Zone as an ability clips everytime it's ready, it desyncs on its own. After 5-6 mins it will desync by ~10s. It's not much, but noticeable. And it from there on onward, it will not fit into Trick Attack anymore, and soon not in Chain or Divination neither.
Blasting Zone as a weaponskill-oGCD like pre-ShB Empyreal Arrow will always fit into your own and the parties' buff windows. If it desyncs with your buff windows it's your own fault, just like it's your own fault when Gnashing Fang desyncs.
If BZ becomes a weaponskill-oGCD, you'll have control over BZ and GF getting out of sync from your party buffs. Right now - BZ as normal ability - you have no control over this!

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Finally someone reading. at the end...tyvm.

When you play Savage or Ultimate (You have Danger Zone instead of Blasting Zone into Ultimate) and combat last for ~5 or more minutes, Blasting Zone desync at the end (if you dont delay No Mercy or Gnashing Fang). They did pretty well with Gnashing Fang combo, making Skill Speed apply to it, but they should do the same for Blasting Zone, keep it like oGCD, but making it affected by Skill Speed would fix desync issue.

You can use it literally every time you’re doing the continuation combo. It’s a 30 second cooldown. You don’t even really need to look, it should be off before the end of the combo regardless of your sks.

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Originally Posted by Conando

You can use it literally every time you’re doing the continuation combo. It’s a 30 second cooldown. You don’t even really need to look, it should be off before the end of the combo regardless of your sks.

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Since Blasting Zone has 30s CD, every time you delay Blasting Zone because double weaving or just server delay, you are desync Blasting Zone a bit, if encounter last like 2 or 3 minutes, desync is pretty small, but when get into 5 minutes or more, desync get bigger and bigger and at the end Blasting Zone could get delayed like 2 or 3 GCDs.

Thats why Gnashing Fang has less than 30 seconds CD, you can deal with animation lock or server delay and you will be able to fit Gnashing Fang into No Mercy with no delay (because skill speed), but since Blasting Zone has 30s, it'll desync , and it wont fit into No Mercy always at the same time if encounter last longer than ~5 minutes.

Blasting Zone desync can be fixed delaying No Mercy, but it's a bad solution. It can be fixed making Blasting Zone's CD be affected by Skill Speed, just like Empyreal Arrow.

Everyone can check Blasting Zone desync in FFlogs, just pick Voidwalker encounter rankings (no downtimes), find the world first Gunbreaker, and you'll see how Blasting Zone is delayed, something like this:

1: 0:06.2 (0s delay)
2: 0:36.2 (0s delay)
3: 1:06.6 (0.4s delay)
4: 1:36.6 (0.4s delay)
5: 2:07.2 (1s delay)
6: 2:37.3 (1.1s delay)
7: 3:07.9 (1.7s delay)
8: 3:37.9 (1.7s delay)
9: 4:09.0 (2.8s delay) More than 1 GCD
10: 4:39.9 (3.7s delay)
11: 5:10.0 (3.8s delay)
12: 5:40.7 (4.5s delay)
13: 6:11.4 (5.9s delay) More than 2 GCDs
14: 6:41.4 (5.9s delay)
15: 7:11.4 (5.9s delay)

At the end, Blasting Zone got delayed 5.9 seconds, more than 2 GCDs. Since you'll cast 2 Blasting Zones for each No Mercy, Blasting Zone's accumulative delay will always be higher than No Mercy's accumulative delay, making Blasting Zone desync.

And like i said before, It can be fixed making Blasting Zone's CD be affected by Skill Speed, just like Empyreal Arrow.

IMPORTANT: You will see this issue only in encounters longer than 4 or 5 minutes, if you just play Dungeons, Fates or Hunts you will never see this issue. People with no real experience in encounters longer than 5 minutes answering here don't help.

Blasting Zone already fits fine into your rotation if you're using it proper. I use a single weave for ping issues and it works out like a dream and I still get time to max on my burst strikes during the no mercy window.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

IMPORTANT: You will see this issue only in encounters longer than 4 or 5 minutes, if you just play Dungeons, Fates or Hunts you will never see this issue. People with no real experience in encounters longer than 5 minutes answering here don't help.

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Oh look, the encounter still needed to go on for about 15 more minutes before it would not get into No Mercy.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Oh look, the encounter still needed to go on for about 15 more minutes before it would not get into No Mercy.

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Oh look, it only needs half of 15 min (7-8 min for those who don't do math), and it would not get into Trick Attack.

Spare me your sarcasm!

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

(7min mark) At the end, Blasting Zone got delayed 5.9 seconds, more than 2 GCDs.[...][/B]

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That example is actually generous. Most logs I've found BZ already desyncs 8-11s at 6 min mark. Some even have 12-15s. It also comes down to GCD recast time, and if they gonna delay it.

E2s can take up to 10 min, 8 and 9 are common outside of speedkills. And yes, if handled badly it wouldn't fit into buff windows anymore.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Oh look, it only needs half of that, and it would not get into Trick Attack.

Spare me your sarcasm!

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14 minutes, you say?

So...

Ultimate, assuming no downtime at all for phase transitions?

I don't know much about GNB, but the desyncing between OGCD and GCD due to skillspeed is one of the reasons why the stat is so loathed on some jobs (DNC in particular suffers from this). Whether or not GNB specifically benefits from this change I don't know, but it won't hurt the job, and applied across the board across all jobs would benefit the combat system massively, and fix many of the problems with the speed stat in general.

Let's be honest there is never gonna be an encounter with that much uptime for that long that it will fall out of sync that you miss Blasting Zone under No Mercy, ultimates and most savage fights will have downtime to realign rotations so most of these arguments are moot.

While we're at it, might as well scale every oGCD in the game off of SKS/ SPS, because they might also fall out of sync with raid buffs. /s Don't hear paladin's crying over missed raid buffs since their basic rotation naturally drifts, don't hear WAR/ DRK crying over missed buff windows, just suck it up and deal with it, it's super negligible at best.

Change Blasting Zone's CD making it affected by Skill Speed is an easy change. If i know something that could help with Gunbreaker gameplay, i'm gonna ask for it, its up to SE to change it or not, but im gonna ask for it.

Personally find it a waste of the devs time they should remove the hp penalty that still remained on pld's Spirits Within after all these years, sooner than make your proposed change.

The only fight this is a "problem" on is voidwalker, but in the same vein with your example of TA, TA will also likely drift slightly as the fight goes on (in the worlds best NIN parse it drifts at any rate). As long as its not falling out your no mercy then its fine, youre more likely to drift out of TA by activating your no mercy later anyway to ensure its in the latter half of your gcd.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Change Blasting Zone's CD making it affected by Skill Speed is an easy change. If i know something that could help with Gunbreaker gameplay, i'm gonna ask for it, its up to SE to change it or not, but im gonna ask for it.

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It absolutely is not an easy change. Skill speed not effecting oGCDs is a deliberate design decision and there is likely no code base to support it so it would have to be built from the ground up.

And this doesn’t even go into the gameplay impact of making such a change. Being able to reduce an oGCD recast is far more significant than some seem to realize. There is no time cost in using one since it does not trigger the GCD. Potency, current recasts and buff/debuff times are all designed around the static recast of oGCDs. Being able to fit in an extra oGCD in longer fights with enough skill speed would completely throw off the current balance of these skills.