AF gear already "obsolte"

I have been noticing on my server that Blackmages are not wearing the af hat anymore..

Seems a hat with double meld materis is better... so sad

Just look at the PLD set to see a set that was useless before it was introduced. Mage hat nothing, the whole PLD set blows goat balls.

Cobalt Cuirass (Red)
HP : +60,
Vit : +7,
Attack Power : +4

Gallant Surcoat
Enhances Cover
MP : +40 <== WTF is this about? A single cure 1 costs more than 40 mp.
Mnd : +12,
Healing Magic Potency : +3
Enmity : +3

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Cobalt Celata (Red)
HP : +45
Str : +3
Accuracy : +1

Gallant Coronet
Healing Magic Potency : +15
Enmity : +5
Mnd : +16,
MP : +20 <== again, another useless stat

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Cobalt Celata (Red)
HP : +45
Str : +3
Accuracy : +1

Gallant Gauntlets
Enhances Holy Succor ,
MP : +30, <== WTF were you thinking SE?
Vit : +2,
Enmity : +4

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Felt Trousers (Red)
HP : +23
Vit : +6
Str : +4

Gallant Cuisses
Enhances Divine Veil
Vit : +7
Mnd : +7,
MP : +10
Enmity : +2

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Cobalt Sabatons (Red)
HP : +30
Dex : +2
Vit : +2

Gallant Sollerets
Block Rate : +3
Vit : +2
MP : +20,
Enmity : +1



-----------------------------------

cobalt totals
HP : +203,
Vit : +15,
Attack Power : +4
Str : +10
Accuracy : +2
Dex : +2


PLD set totals
Enhances Divine Veil
Enhances Cover
Enhances Holy Succor
Block Rate : +3
Vit : +11
MP : +120,
Enmity : +15
Mnd : +38,
Healing Magic Potency : +18


Bear in mind that none of this takes into account even a single meld, nor sentinel's gear or combinations of melds/sentinel's gear.

Mostly every AF hat is useless. Bard gloves are also worthless since the stats are mediocre and the enhancement only works on the 15 minute song.

But then again it's free gear so who cares? I'd rather not have everyone dressed exactly the same anyway.

well.. i guess i am one of those ppl that lkes to be on their "role" and seems sad that the NICE looking AF gear is worthless

I've just recently returned after an extended absence and so I'm not familiar with all the gear, but I do hope the Dragoon set is up to par, considering it's my goal and why I'm playing right now :D

The PLD AF is two things with the first being a play-style call. For example, some PLD are very self-sufficient and cure themselves a lot while others are not. I've never seen a dramatic difference between the two but, then again, I haven't seen a dramatic difference between GLD and PLD in static fights to begin with. I tanked Ifrit with both GLD and PLD since the patch and I don't really one being better than the other - simply different.

The second reason is that SE, per patch notes, tinkered with emnity and crowd control calculations. This may be the sole reason why the AF appears to be cure-centric and emnity focused. Remember that in XI the PLD held hate via curing just as much as by using voke/flash. Give it time and it will sort out.

But if you're saying that an entire set is "worthless" then I am going to say you aren't being too resourceful. The difference won't always be like Aaron Rogers vs. Matt Schaub - it's more of a Young vs. Montana argument. Neither is going to be dominant (statistically) over the other but both have their areas that they excel in.

I always felt that AF gear should provide a "complete set equipped" bonus.

Here's hoping they allow us to upgrade AF in the future, I wouldn't mind farming materials from bosses in dungeon and upgrade my AF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yves

The PLD AF is two things with the first being a play-style call. For example, some PLD are very self-sufficient and cure themselves a lot while others are not. I've never seen a dramatic difference between the two but, then again, I haven't seen a dramatic difference between GLD and PLD in static fights to begin with. I tanked Ifrit with both GLD and PLD since the patch and I don't really one being better than the other - simply different.

The second reason is that SE, per patch notes, tinkered with emnity and crowd control calculations. This may be the sole reason why the AF appears to be cure-centric and emnity focused. Remember that in XI the PLD held hate via curing just as much as by using voke/flash. Give it time and it will sort out.

But if you're saying that an entire set is "worthless" then I am going to say you aren't being too resourceful. The difference won't always be like Aaron Rogers vs. Matt Schaub - it's more of a Young vs. Montana argument. Neither is going to be dominant (statistically) over the other but both have their areas that they excel in.

---

But the MP bonus isn't even worth a single cure 1 so my argument is that it doesn't even achieve what it sets out to do, which is to increase the healing capacity of PLD. Sure it makes what few cures we can do a little bit stronger, but you can't cure any more times before you are effectively out of mp than a PLD in unmelded cobalt gear could.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Just look at the PLD set to see a set that was useless before it was introduced. Mage hat nothing, the whole PLD set blows goat balls.[/I]

---

Though the individual MP bonuses are small, you also note that they add up to a respectable 120 MP which leads to my next point:

Rather than to survive via large HP reserves like WAR - the original concept is for PLD to be a 'healing focal point' in battles -- to be evaluated in tandem with WHM. The PLD abilities: Divine Veil, Cover, and Holy Succor (all enhanced by the AF) make this obvious. Additionally, since jobs are balanced for party play, It is important to view PLDs survivability when paired up with a competent WHM.

Since 1.21 hasn't been out long, it's easy to jump to conclusions based on PLD/Tank concepts from other games. In time, the more people play, the more they will become adjusted to the Cure-tank model and thus can provide more accurate feedback on it.

That said, if people prefer to not play the Cure-tank, they always have the option of equipping Bloodthirst loaded gear and play more GLD or even MRD-Style.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Though the individual MP bonuses are small, you also note that they add up to a respectable 120 MP which leads to my next point:

The original concept is for PLD to be a' healing focal point' in battles rather than to survive via large HP reserves (like WAR).

I think where they may have missed the mark is in the DEF area. Ideally, PLD should gain considerable DEF while WAR should lose some.

Still, 1.21 hasn't been out long, and the more people play, the more they will become adjusted to the Cure-tank model and can provide more accurate feedback on it.

---

this is why I included the totals

how many cures does 120 mp buy you? I could always meld two +60 manathirst onto my cuirass, then where does that leave the PLD set? (or even better a +50 and a +70 because the outcome is more likely to be successful.) Personally, I'd much rather have VIT and HP on a cuirass, but I used MP for the sake of argument.

Yves made some good points in their post but the OP and Molly are also making points I have been hearing grumblings about for quite some time; Dungeon/AF(now) gear is useless or not as good as melded gear. You will also notice things like Cnj can use Resonance but as a Whm you lose that ability. There are trade offs in some respects with the newer jobs that I noticed which somewhat ties into what Yves was pointing out.

good to know.. so i dont have to bother going after any of the gears and waste my time in dungeons looking for it :)

All U/U gear can be beaten by melded gear, its what people asked for, everyone said (before materia) that crafting was useless because all U/U gear was better than crafting gear, so SE made materia and double/triple melds > U/U.

It has been the case since materia was released, SE cannot win with this, if they make U/U gear overpowered crafters will complain, if they make crafted gear over powered we get people who like endgame and AF complaining.

Pretty much no balancing will fix this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

All U/U gear can be beaten by melded gear, its what people asked for, everyone said (before materia) that crafting was useless because all U/U gear was better than crafting gear, so SE made materia and double/triple melds > U/U.

It has been the case since materia was released, SE cannot win with this, if they make U/U gear overpowered crafters will complain, if they make crafted gear over powered we get people who like endgame and AF complaining.

Pretty much no balancing will fix this.

---

This is so true but that was before as you mentioned. So they knew going in this could be an issue so it should have been prepared as such to be at least in some regards "better". Crafted gear should only do so much to be better. Not everyone will want AF gear because they don't like how it looks; always some fashionista in a game that wants to "look good" rather than "live" or "be effective" in their role. >.<

For example, there isn't any or very much in the way of crafted gear for drops and currently no "AF" gear that's for sure for DoH/DoL so in this regard, crafted then slotted DoH/DoL gear SHOULD be ubber but, if something eventually happens that they get "AF" type gear, that gear should work to be better or at least make sense to be better than crafted DoH/DoL jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

All U/U gear can be beaten by melded gear.

---

If by "beaten" you mean equal or better, I would say that 1.21 has nullified that argument.

Materia is restricted to certain gear parts and cannot grant specific ability bonuses. Thus, there is no way to replicate most AF or Darklight gear.

Try this: pick a random Darklight or AF piece, then try to make something equal or better via a combination of 3x materia and crafted gear...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

Here's hoping they allow us to upgrade AF in the future, I wouldn't mind farming materials from bosses in dungeon and upgrade my AF.

---

Yeah exactly... Something like runes or soul stone upgrades would be nice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfsspirit

good to know.. so i dont have to bother going after any of the gears and waste my time in dungeons looking for it :)

---

Well you do actually, because the quests to get the af gear also give you the new abilities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkhaund

I have been noticing on my server that Blackmages are not wearing the af hat anymore..

Seems a hat with double meld materis is better... so sad

---

Black mage gear is tailored for Magic Crits, especially since it seems like the AF body makes Excruciate's crit rate boost go up quite a bit. The AF hat is more suited for such a role, whereas a straight +INT hat increases your overall damage and the AF might be outright beaten by a double meld hat. Given that this gear is meant to be accessible to everyone and pretty much a baseline so people can adequately perform their function, it's fine. If you don't want to min/max AF gear is serviceable.

AF is a stepping stone and worth getting, and using, until you can manage to make yourself some double or triple melded pieces (or getting darklight). All these people complaining about AF being "complete crap" are pretty much just missing brain cells.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Angof

AF is a stepping stone and worth getting, and using, until you can manage to make yourself some double or triple melded pieces (or getting darklight). All these people complaining about AF being "complete crap" are pretty much just missing brain cells.

---

Most of us had full sets of double melds before AF gear was released, hence the complaining. (Hell I almost have a full double melded set of sentinel's gear which beats the living tar out of the PLD set. That's another story though because it's actually extremely time consuming to get that set.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

That's another story though because it's actually extremely time consuming to get that set.)

---

But at the same time we were told AFs would be comparable or better than double melded current gear:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

It won’t be possible to attach materia to job-specific gear. Job-specific gear will feature stats that are better than gear that is craftable that have more than one materia attached.

---

Which it's not, like Molly said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Since Materia is restricted to certain gear parts and cannot grant Ability bonuses, it's not that difficult.

There is no way to replicate most AF or Darklight gear.

Try this: pick a Darklight piece, then try to make something equal or better via a combination of 3x materia and crafted gear. It's not easy.

---

Not in one slot, but if you 3x meld all your gear you can beat it, lets say you get lucky (or spend alot of gil) highest att power+ materia is +30, 3x meld that to hands and you have +90 att power, highest str is +20, 3x that to your weapon is +60, crit att power+ triple meld that on body (+50 each) is +150.

Thats:
att power+90
STR+60
crit att power+ 150

and PUG, GLA and ARC can put 3x INT or PIE on thier head, making +60 to those.

Beats darklight hands down.
ACC and DEX isnt really needed because we hardly miss anyway.

I like how people here think JSE is supposed to phase out all other gear. And like I said in another thread where Molly didn't seem to understand anything, in an MMO if you want to optimize your character you will have to mix and match. If you want to look nice, wear the gear that looks nice. It confuses me how so many people do not understand this concept.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

ACC and DEX isnt really needed because we hardly miss anyway.

---

ACC isn't, but if I'm not mistaken DEX is a damage modifier on most of the ARC (and BRDs) skills, so it's always useful to have.

The sentinel's set seems to strike the right balance (if every other class had a similar, meld-able but rare set), but I think the PLD AF should definitely be better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colino

ACC isn't, but if I'm not mistaken DEX is a damage modifier on most of the ARC (and BRDs) skills, so it's always useful to have.

---

Ok then dont know much about ARC, take the STR off your weapon and add DEX (all classes have 2 damage modifiers) and it still beats darklight hands down :)

yea i just use af gear dont want to spend tons of gil on melds and they look nice so thats fine with me lol also most of your damage comes from combos anyways

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isaaru

I like how people here think JSE is supposed to phase out all other gear.

---

You just like to make an ass out of yourself, don't you? We're not complaining because it's not the best thing around, it was never meant to be. We're complaining because its doesn't live up to this promise:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

It won’t be possible to attach materia to job-specific gear. Job-specific gear will feature stats that are better than gear that is craftable that have more than one materia attached. With that said, we will look into adding new gear in future patches that will have better stats than job- specific gear with multiple materia attached to them.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

Not in one slot, but if you 3x meld all your gear you can beat it, lets say you get lucky (or spend alot of gil) highest att power+ materia is +30, 3x meld that to hands and you have +90 att power, highest str is +20, 3x that to your weapon is +60, crit att power+ triple meld that on body (+50 each) is +150.

Thats:
att power+90
STR+60
crit att power+ 150

and PUG, GLA and ARC can put 3x INT or PIE on thier head, making +60 to those.

Beats darklight hands down.
ACC and DEX isnt really needed because we hardly miss anyway.

---

You understand the odds and cost of doing that lol?

Lets just say you have a better chance of darklight dropping....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

this is why I included the totals

how many cures does 120 mp buy you? I could always meld two +60 manathirst onto my cuirass, then where does that leave the PLD set? (or even better a +50 and a +70 because the outcome is more likely to be successful.) Personally, I'd much rather have VIT and HP on a cuirass, but I used MP for the sake of argument.

---

manathrist comes in +50,60,70 quantities now? sweet!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

Not in one slot, but if you 3x meld all your gear you can beat it, lets say you get lucky (or spend alot of gil) highest att power+ materia is +30, 3x meld that to hands and you have +90 att power, highest str is +20, 3x that to your weapon is +60, crit att power+ triple meld that on body (+50 each) is +150.

Thats:
att power+90
STR+60
crit att power+ 150

and PUG, GLA and ARC can put 3x INT or PIE on thier head, making +60 to those.

Beats darklight hands down.
ACC and DEX isnt really needed because we hardly miss anyway.

---

cant put piety on head and you should have dex on bard/archer for light shot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colino

But at the same time we were told AFs would be comparable or better than double melded current gear:



Which it's not, like Molly said.

---

Devs fucked up on their info. Sucks in a sense but it's also probably a good thing. AF is pretty easy to obtain with some help and far less time consuming, unless you're super lucky, than getting those double melds. I get why some of the vets of the game feel jipped because it is sub-par to gear they have obtained but I don't see how people are still complaining about this after two weeks.

Like I said AF is a stepping stone. If you skipped that stepping stone and the gear is crap for you, oh well sorry. But that doesn't mean the gear is crap for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Most of us had full sets of double melds before AF gear was released, hence the complaining. (Hell I almost have a full double melded set of sentinel's gear which beats the living tar out of the PLD set. That's another story though because it's actually extremely time consuming to get that set.)

---

Now now, this is exaggerating.

I check people often (I'm curious!) and it's rare that I see someone with a full set of double melded gear. Like, really rare.

Some darklight pieces are the equivalent of a 5 meld. BLM's won't be any happier with darklight though, most suck for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You understand the odds and cost of doing that lol?

Lets just say you have a better chance of darklight dropping....

---

Imo, this topic should revolve around only the particular pieces that suck ass, not af as a whole. For example, the WAR set is quite nice. Triple melds should beat AF because they are UBER-rare. We were told af would beat single melded gear at least, and one could reason that the quote above includes double melds as well. For the PLD set, every piece can be beaten by a single meld when you consider actual usefulness and not just looking at the numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaizlu

Now now, this is exaggerating.

I check people often (I'm curious!) and it's rare that I see someone with a full set of double melded gear. Like, really rare.

---

ok, then my LS mostly had double melded sets before af came out =/ I have 3 plate sets, and like 4 mage sets fully double melded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Imo, this topic should revolve around only the particular pieces that suck ass, not af as a whole. For example, the WAR set is quite nice. Triple melds should beat AF because they are UBER-rare. We were told af would beat single melded gear at least, and one could reason that the quote above includes double melds as well. For the PLD set, every piece can be beaten by a single meld when you consider actual usefulness and not just looking at the numbers.

---

Well that is because right now HP > anything else when tanking.

Unfortunately, SE believes a PLD should tank by holding hate with heals. Hence all the MND and +healing stats.

What SE thinks is good gear/stats doesn't always reflect what the community agrees with.

yoshi said himself that af will be better than multi melded gear... soo idk what happened with that. ALSO for how easy it's to obtain, the stats are fine.

Quote:

---

Not in one slot, but if you 3x meld all your gear you can beat it, let’s say you get lucky (or spend a lot of gil) highest att power+ materia is +30, 3x meld that to hands and you have +90 att power, highest str is +20, 3x that to your weapon is +60, crit att power+ triple meld that on body (+50 each) is +150.

That’s:
att power+90
STR+60
crit att power+ 150

---

Sorry but I have to speak up against this, if anyone was to triple meld 3 PERFECT tier IV materia then they deserve to have that advantage/superior gear set.... Let alone doing that perfect triple meld three separate times. Anyway I don’t believe they have perfected the balance quite yet but it’s getting ever closer.