Reasonable buff to war

Make storm eye duration to 40 seconds this means one more storm eye. Change vengeance to 60 potency. Change Inner chaos to 930 or 940. Make onslaught 200 or lower the cooldown and the gauge cost. Just pick one or all leave a comment

Storm eye seems fine buff but that seems more like a quality of life change than a buff. Vengeance would just force WAR to be MT as it kinda already does with its damage tied to it, if you have a WAR OT you are losing damage. Inner chaos doesn't come up enough for this to be a signifcant buff to their numbers so it wouldn't be much of a change.
Making onslaught better would be nice, but how the job flows you don't onslaught unless you have to, during IR, or if you somehow need to dump beast gauge. Onslaught would need to be more of a DPS gain than Fell cleave for players to use it. Upheavel works because its a signicantly higher scaling with beast guage and damage vs fell cleave.

Give storms eye a DoT effect in addition to its damage buff.

I want Onslaught's cost to reduced to 10 just so I can use it to land Storm Path on 90 guage ( and lessen guage needed before I have to away from boss).

Other than above, not much I feel necessary knowing some defensive buff incoming patch, I will take anything.

Damage wise, may be a little potency added to Upheaval... :x

They are not going to buff damage of any of the tanks, just some deffensive stuff.
It is their statement from the live letter.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

They are not going to buff damage of any of the tanks, just some deffensive stuff.
It is their statement from the live letter.

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I already know this but war needs some potency buffs

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Make storm eye duration to 40 seconds this means one more storm eye. Change vengeance to 60 potency. Change Inner chaos to 930 or 940. Make onslaught 200 or lower the cooldown and the gauge cost. Just pick one or all leave a comment

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Vengeance potency should be added to WAR's abilities. If it adds about 165-220 potency per two minutes, add some potency to eye and path to make up for that.

At 200 potency Onslaught does more DPS than a fell cleave. Fell cleave is a 590 potency move at 50 gauge and 3 onslaughts is 60 gauge at 600 potency. However, Fell cleave costs a GCD and onslaught does not. This puts Onslaught at a potency gain over fell cleave.

WAR really doesn't need potency buffs. Just QoL buffs. DRK needs potency buffs if anything.

Warrior doesn't need any DPS buff.

Extend Storm's Eye duration is ok, it could help.

I dont understand why ppl playing warrior feel bad if they are not Tank Top DPS...I dont see the point...Its like they think that Top DPS for Warrior is a must...when it doesn't make any sense. Maybe is because War used to be tank Top DPS in old expansions like Stormblood or Heavensward? i dont know.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

I already know this but war needs some potency buffs

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No, WAR does not need any potency buffs. Crit scaling means that the further we get into the expansion, the more DPS WAR will do. If we buff it now, it's going to be miles in-front of the others in the future.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Crit scaling means that the further we get into the expansion, the more DPS WAR will do. If we buff it now, it's going to be miles in-front of the others in the future.

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Not really.

CH scaling is nearly linear for WAR, whereas it is quadratic for the other tanks. WAR will not pull ahead when it comes to scaling, but the other tanks will catch up.

I'm not convinced that WAR needs any potency buffs my self (though I'm certainly not a theory crafter by any stretch of the imagination). Personally i feel like some QOL changes are all that is required. I'd love to see Nascent be changed to where it does not need a target to be used so it can be used in a broader spectrum of circumstances. The other piece I'd like to see is Storms Path maximum duration be increased to a minute (this would mirror DRK's DMG increase buff, thus not be OP) so as to not have to use it as frequently. The last bit I'd personally like is to see Onslaught's gauge cost be simply removed....this isn't super huge IMO, but no other tanks have their gap closer tied to a resource so would be nice to see, but meh...

Warrior is doing fine as it is. It's got a strong kit, acceptable damage output, and a level of utility that is second only to paladin. It generally has the third highest of the damage out of all the tanks unless DRK has a very specific set of raid buffs made available to it, in which case it gets slightly outpaced. Giving warrior buffs now would essentially the revive the warrior-god-of-tanks trope and cause a bunch of people to get pigeonholed into playing it instead of their preferred jobs again.

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Originally Posted by Talaros

I'd love to see Nascent be changed to where it does not need a target to be used so it can be used in a broader spectrum of circumstances. The other piece I'd like to see is Storms Path maximum duration be increased to a minute (this would mirror DRK's DMG increase buff, thus not be OP) so as to not have to use it as frequently. The last bit I'd personally like is to see Onslaught's gauge cost be simply removed....this isn't super huge IMO, but no other tanks have their gap closer tied to a resource so would be nice to see, but meh...

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Nascent Flash would become the single most broken ability in the game if it didn't have something impeding its use. Storm's Path isn't going to fall off if WAR is being played correctly. Not unlike darkside, it is completely self-sustaining when using the job as intended. It isn't something you even need to think about. As for the gap closer, well, I will give you that one. WAR is indeed the only tank that has to burn resource to gap close, but it isn't the only job that does. SAM is in the same boat.

Geesh most of these comments are a little mean

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Warrior doesn't need any DPS buff.

Extend Storm's Eye duration is ok, it could help.

I dont understand why ppl playing warrior feel bad if they are not Tank Top DPS...I dont see the point...Its like they think that Top DPS for Warrior is a must...when it doesn't make any sense. Maybe is because War used to be tank Top DPS in old expansions like Stormblood or Heavensward? i dont know.

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Cause WAR is the least played job when it comes to tanks. WAR is hurting, anyone who argues against this is putting on blinders. The only fight WAR is good is Leviathan. Reason? Both tanks are getting hit so Nascent Flash is decent for healing and Holmgang makes dealing with the tankbusts easy. Everywhere else don't bring a WAR, just dont. PLD has more utility and more damage than WAR, GNB has a better OT skill for dealing with TB and the highest DMG, even DRK has higher DMG than WAR and better OT skill than WAR even with all of its issues. Finally, people aren't happy with WAR anymore. The removal of its one defining Tank Dancing strength that gave WAR depth is gone, leaving a job that takes not only 0 brain power to play, but also the most boring of all the tanks. You can't find any WAR that will say WAR feels good outside of IR. When IR is on cooldown, WAR is the worst job in the game to play.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Make storm eye duration to 40 seconds this means one more storm eye.

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This change really doesn't matter much, the difference in 30s and 40s is pretty minimal and it would have very little effect on damage output anyways. It would just get you an additional 10 beast gauge every 40s, which is pretty minimal. I think a better QoL change would be to make mythril tempest grant storm's eye and add 15s to the duration (up to a max of 30s). This would be a much more needed QoL change IMO.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Change vengeance to 60 potency.

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I really don't like that vengeance even returns damage to attackers in the first place. One of the main reasons for all of the tank homogenization in 5.0 was to make all tanks equally good as OT or MT. Having your damage output tied to a defensive skill defeats this purpose because a WAR now has to be main tank in order to do max DPS with Vengeance as is. This is why TBN (for dark knight) is a damage neutral skill. No tank needs to have their damage output tied to whether or not they are taking damage.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Change Inner chaos to 930 or 940.

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This is fine. IMO, WAR does need a small (I said small!) buff to damage output. This is really only a 15-30 potency every 30 seconds buff, which is pretty negligible IMO. This would have a very small impact on DPS and is probably about right for what WAR needs.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Make onslaught 200 or lower the cooldown and the gauge cost.

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IMO, they should remove the beast gauge cost entirely, and just copy the other 3 tank gap closers (the other 3 are all the same anyways, so why not just make them all identical). If the beast gauge cost was removed, then WAR could just use the skill on CD for a slight damage increase (same all all other 3 tanks) instead of a slight damage decrease and just save them if they know a mechanic will require them in the near future. WAR is my last tank to take all the way to 80 (i'm at 78 now), and the beast gauge tied to onslaught feels a bit odd to me.

This Onslaught homogenization meme needs to stop.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Not really.

CH scaling is nearly linear for WAR, whereas it is quadratic for the other tanks. WAR will not pull ahead when it comes to scaling, but the other tanks will catch up.

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Wars Crit damage scaling is the same as all the other classes its a modifier based on your crit stat, so later in the expac it will have a higher modifier. War damage is fine will get way better, I have no idea where youre getting this idea of different scaling from

CH scales critical hit rate and critical hit damage. WAR has an abundance of forced critical hits, meaning the former part of the scaling is minimized and the latter part is magnified. Ergo, WAR scales differently with CH from other jobs insofar as the practical effect on its DPS.

Do you understand?

Because of the way WAR interacts with CH, there is a common misconception that WAR scales better with CH than other jobs, but that isn't quite true in the way people often think it is.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

CH scales critical hit rate and critical hit damage. WAR has an abundance of forced critical hits, meaning the former part of the scaling is minimized and the latter part is magnified. Ergo, WAR scales differently with CH from other jobs insofar as the practical effect on its DPS.

Do you understand?

Because of the way WAR interacts with CH, there is a common misconception that WAR scales better with CH, but that isn't quite true in the way people think it is.

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The rules of mathematics don't change based on a few guaranteed crits. Only way it would be linear would be if every attack was a guaranteed crit.

I said nearly linear for a reason. The point was that you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

I said nearly linear for a reason. The point is, you're wrong.

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So what do you meld on Warrior? If crit is so nearly linear like you say it is, then the same argument as for not melding DH would be valid.

If crit is nearly linear then melding det should be better. But wait.... Its not.

CH can be linear and still be better than DET through sheer value, which is pretty much the case.

CH is the best stat for WAR, hands down, but that doesn't mean that WAR scales better with CH than other jobs.

And DH being linear has nothing to do with why WAR doesn't meld it. WAR doesn't meld it because for much of its damage it has absolutely no effect.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Warrior is doing fine as it is. It's got a strong kit, acceptable damage output, and a level of utility that is second only to paladin. It generally has the third highest of the damage out of all the tanks unless DRK has a very specific set of raid buffs made available to it, in which case it gets slightly outpaced. Giving warrior buffs now would essentially the revive the warrior-god-of-tanks trope and cause a bunch of people to get pigeonholed into playing it instead of their preferred jobs again.



Nascent Flash would become the single most broken ability in the game if it didn't have something impeding its use. Storm's Path isn't going to fall off if WAR is being played correctly. Not unlike darkside, it is completely self-sustaining when using the job as intended. It isn't something you even need to think about. As for the gap closer, well, I will give you that one. WAR is indeed the only tank that has to burn resource to gap close, but it isn't the only job that does. SAM is in the same boat.

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How does removing target restrictions make nf the most broken action in the game? It doesn't even scratch the level of absurd self heal that clemenacy has. You're being weird and wrong.

And stormseye, eye not path, will fall off at least a few times in a dungeon run where you will have to grab with aoe, single target combo, and then go back to aoe.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

Cause WAR is the least played job when it comes to tanks.

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It doesn't mean that War need a potency buff, maybe it needs some changes, but potency wise is perfectly fine.

Laslty, having a target restriction on nf only impedes its use in solo play or in situations where party members died.

If it is not broken in a party setting how is it broken in a solo setting?

And if you think it's broken bc of solo self sustain, then se better nerf the pants off clemancy in 5.1.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

It doesn't mean that War need a potency buff, maybe it needs some changes, but potency wise is perfectly fine.

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Id rather they change onslaught to no rage cost or something. Remove target restrictions on nf, have mythril tempest apply eye.

Potency can and maybe should be buffed, but other things affect gameplay more.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

CH can be linear and still be better than DET through sheer value, which is pretty much the case.

CH is the best stat for WAR, hands down, but that doesn't mean that WAR scales better with CH than other jobs.

And DH being linear has nothing to do with why WAR doesn't meld it. WAR doesn't meld it because for much of its damage it has absolutely no effect.

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Most of WARs damage comes from their guaranteed crits, this is not the case for classes that do not have the guarantees, ergo WAR will scale better than other classes with crit because the part of their rotation that does the most damage will be way better. Also claiming that it scales linearly is straight up untrue

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Potency can and maybe should be buffed

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Why? Why should Warrior deal more damage than other tanks by definition? it doesn't make any sense.
Could you explain why should warrior deal more damage than PLD or GNB or DRK?

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Most of WARs damage comes from their guaranteed crits, this is not the case for classes that do not have the guarantees, ergo WAR will scale better than other classes with crit because the part of their rotation that does the most damage will be way better.

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So you were just pretending to be an idiot earlier? Well, either way, you're still wrong.

The fact of the matter is that WAR benefits more from CH compared to the other tanks at lower values and less at higher values.

If you don't believe me, go check a DPS calculator. You'll see that as you stack more and more CH, the other tanks will see larger percentage increases to their DPS than WAR.

So, the idea that the DPS disparity between WAR and the other tanks will "self-correct" as they stack more CH isn't correct in the slightest.

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Also claiming that it scales linearly is straight up untrue

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Well, then it's a good thing I never claimed this. I chose my words very carefully; show some respect.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

So you were just pretending to be an idiot earlier? Well, either way, you're still wrong.

The fact of the matter is that WAR benefits more from CH compared to the other tanks at lower values and less at higher values.

If you don't believe me, go check a DPS calculator. You'll see that as you stack more and more CH, the other tanks will see larger percentage increases to their DPS than WAR.

So, the idea that the DPS disparity between WAR and the other tanks will "self-correct" as they stack more CH isn't correct in the slightest.



Well, then it's a good thing I never claimed this. I chose my words very carefully; show some respect.

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Wow you are completely insufferable reign your ego in son. You claimed it to be nearly linear which is blatantly untrue. Youve neither earned respect nor shown yourself to be worth any

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Wow you are completely insufferable reign your ego in son.

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No.

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You claimed it to be nearly linear which is blatantly untrue.

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It's not blatantly untrue. At the least, it's far more true than you seem to think.

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Youve neither earned respect nor shown yourself to be worth any

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I was perfectly respectful in my first reply to you, but then you pretend to be an idiot and mis-characterize what I've said. I have no tolerance for that, sorry.

I like how bo one quoted me when these comments are or was a little mean now there just mean. Dang! boys and girls

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

It doesn't mean that War need a potency buff, maybe it needs some changes, but potency wise is perfectly fine.

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At no point have I said WAR needs potency buffs, they need skills. I used to main WAR and the moment you hit 80 you realize just how barren the job is. You got 1 new skill and basically 2 passives for a "progression" of the job while losing the thing that made WAR unique and skill based in SB. Tank Dancing. WAR was the best at it even with the issue with Inner Beast as it gave WAR the unique ability to use their Tank Stance as a tool with very little downsides mid fight before swapping back to Deliverance. With the removal of that feature WAR is now a shallow, dead class. It needs skills and something to do outside of IR because... holy crap does it feel like crap to play when IR is on cooldown.

Someone must love being called mean

WAR only needs 4 things:

1. Onslaught costing no Beast Gauge and usable outside of battle.

2. Another combo line starting from Heavy Swing to make the rotation more engaging, could finish with Storm's Eye so 1 DPS/heal combo and 1 buff combo (same as DRG)

3. More skills, specifically oGCDs to weave inbetween GCD, the rotation is boring as f*** and Upheaval costing BG is awful, remove BG costs from abilities and give us maybe another long cooldown BG finisher.

4. MAKE OVERPOWER BE CIRCULAR AREA SKILL FOR F***S SAKE.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

WAR only needs 4 things:

1. Onslaught costing no Beast Gauge and usable outside of battle.

2. Another combo line starting from Heavy Swing to make the rotation more engaging, could finish with Storm's Eye so 1 DPS/heal combo and 1 buff combo (same as DRG)

3. More skills, specifically oGCDs to weave inbetween GCD, the rotation is boring as f*** and Upheaval costing BG is awful, remove BG costs from abilities and give us maybe another long cooldown BG finisher.

4. MAKE OVERPOWER BE CIRCULAR AREA SKILL FOR F***S SAKE.

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Overpower being conal aoe and mythril tempest 360 feels clunky. I hate having to constantly move to make sure i catch all the monsters in the cone.

It usef to be sorta okay, but in shb there seemd to be more monsters when u pull wall to wall than before. The large number causes the monsters to sorta disperse around me in such a wide fashion that sometimes it feels impossible to hit all of them with overpower.

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Overpower being conal aoe and mythril tempest 360 feels clunky. I hate having to constantly move to make sure i catch all the monsters in the cone.

It usef to be sorta okay, but in shb there seemd to be more monsters when u pull wall to wall than before. The large number causes the monsters to sorta disperse around me in such a wide fashion that sometimes it feels impossible to hit all of them with overpower.

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I just pick up mobs with tempest tbh, when done running I'll do the proper combo.

It makes it much less of a hassle but sadly no extending storm's eye during this time.

Most of the savages fights aren't designed well with WAR in mind. The main exception to this is E3S where WAR is the best tank to bring into it. I can't comment on E4S as I haven't gone in yet (just cleared 3 yesterday) but baised off the numbers WAR isn't perfered in there likely because of tank swapping.
Here is the thing, WAR is kinda designed to be the MT at all times. Yes, they can OT but their effectiveness is reduced when doing so.
Reasons:
1) Vengeance still has damage tied to it. It might not be much but with IR affecting it as well as in the long run if you use it cooldown unless you need it for TBs you should be using it. Getting about 6-7 vengeance off comes to around 1320 potency or more if you are using it on cooldown not counting DH/Crits. Of course this can only be used on physical attacks so Leviathan ignores this. The problem is every fight is designed around tank swapping and if the WAR isn't getting auto attacked, well vengeance damage is kinda dead.
2) Nascent flash is a better MT skill than an OT skill. The 50% reduction on your co-tank makes even setting up a beefy nascent flash heal not noticable to maybe heal a boss basic attack, its good for you, but if your the OT the heal probably doesn't affect you as you'll be at full HP (except again Leviathan where you both are getting auto'd so its always good to use it on cooldown there). With a weak heal you have to look at its mitigation which is the lowest of all tanks outside of naked PLD interventions, but PLD has the option of using a cooldown they don't need to buff it to the highest giving it flexibility.
3) Raw Intiution is the best MT skill identity cooldown in the game. Simple as that. 20% mitigation on a 25 second cooldown with no need to worry about job guage or resources? Yeah its the best for TBs making it easy for a WAR to surive a tank buster with a good chunk of HP when paried with another cooldown (if you even need to).
4) Holmgang is still a thing. However, the issue with this raiding tier is 3/4 of the fights tie a required tank swap debuff to the Tankbusters now. Leviathan is however a short debuff so holmgang lets the OT not worry about requiring to share Tankbusters (except 1). E2S doesn't have a debuff tied to it but both tanks will always get hit by the tankbuster so using an OT skill during that on your other tank isn't advised... except for PLD because intervention works well with those kinds of tankbusters mitigating the most damage by far of all the tanks.


WAR isn't designed well for this raid tier I would argue outside of Leviathan and even there one of its damaging skills is gimped because its all magical. Its a small problem but it adds up when its personal DPS isn't very good and personal mitigation doesn't matter too much when you are forced to tank swap anyways.

So to follow up on the previous post what buffs does WAR need?
1) Nascent flash buff. Give it 75% of total healing you do to yourself shared with your target instead of 50% and increase the time on it so you can fit one more GCD in it.
2) Remove the potency on vengeance and slightly buff other skills so you are basically 'moving' that potency so it doesn't feel bad when WAR isn't MTing.
3) WAR needs improvements to the flow of the job. The job feels like crap to play when IR is on cooldown while all other tank jobs outside of their "burst phases" still having things to manage and do. WAR does not besides trying to hold on fell cleaves for raid buffs or IC for raid buffs. WAR doesn't scale well with DRG and BRD buffs because of the DH/CRIT guarenteed so if you are running them WAR falls behind all other tanks.

(Personal request)
Rework the DH/CRIT identity of the job. I don't like it and it makes melding WAR akward when all other tanks meld in one way (Skill speed requirements is the exception) but WAR has to be melded differently. DH? You don't do that on WAR and right now DH is the best to meld in all other tanks until the end of this tier with BiS because there is so much crit on them. It makes swapping between tank jobs expensive for an unnessesary reason.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

1) Nascent flash buff. Give it 75% of total healing you do to yourself shared with your target instead of 50% and increase the time on it so you can fit one more GCD in it.

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I don't mind this at all. Giving WAR some more self heal is not really a big deal to me at all. Nascent only being a 10% damage reduction as well warrants some more healing for the target too.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

2) Remove the potency on vengeance and slightly buff other skills so you are basically 'moving' that potency so it doesn't feel bad when WAR isn't MTing.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. The entire point of so many of the ShB tank changes was to make all tanks equally (or near equally) viable at both the MT and OT roles. Vengeance is the only tank ability in the game that rewards the player with damage for being attacked. (TBN is close, but you can use it on other targets and it is only DPS neutral when it breaks, so I don't consider it here) It honestly feels like this ability just fell through the cracks and should have been changed along with everything else.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

3) WAR needs improvements to the flow of the job. The job feels like crap to play when IR is on cooldown while all other tank jobs outside of their "burst phases" still having things to manage and do. WAR does not besides trying to hold on fell cleaves for raid buffs or IC for raid buffs. WAR doesn't scale well with DRG and BRD buffs because of the DH/CRIT guarenteed so if you are running them WAR falls behind all other tanks.

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I do agree that it is pretty boring to play. The removal of stance dancing really took a lot of the complexity of the job away. I would be fine with adding some more oGCD skills, a DoT, or really anything else to add a bit more to the job. See below for my thoughts on secondary stats between classes.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

Rework the DH/CRIT identity of the job. I don't like it and it makes melding WAR akward when all other tanks meld in one way (Skill speed requirements is the exception) but WAR has to be melded differently. DH? You don't do that on WAR and right now DH is the best to meld in all other tanks until the end of this tier with BiS because there is so much crit on them. It makes swapping between tank jobs expensive for an unnessesary reason.

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I have to disagree with you on this point. I do like to see all the big numbers during my IR window and the only way to remove the different effect that secondary stats have on the job would be to rework this mechanic completely. It is a bummer that you can't reuse the same gear as the other tanks, but this is a small price to pay for maintaining class identity.