Will the AST 50-60 quests be re-done now that all cards do the same thing?

Now that the cards effectively have no purpose other than direct damage increase(boring), what was the point of the AST story-line level 50-60 where each card had a meaning, a purpose, and *GAsp* an identity? You broke the job, are you really going to break the lore as well, SE?

I don't really have a horse in this race, but the tone of your question does sound a bit aggressive

Considering that they temporarily broke a few job quests (one of MCH's, I think?) due to said quests requiring skills that would at a later level be replaced with another skill, I can't help but feel like staying true to the AST lore wasn't at the top of their concerns when messing around with the abilities for 5.0.

You're expecting SE to back through every single job quest each expansion to ensure the lore fits with updated changes, resources are better spent else where in all fairness. The cards still exist even if the effect is different, nothing to change here.

Why does everyone keep asking this?

So little of the AST plot relies on the "lore" of the individual cards. Leveva gives a two-sentence description of each constellation that vaguely alludes to what each card does. That's all it ever involved. The rest treats "the cards" as a single tool and focuses more on healing magicks, conflict with Ishgard and the characters' personal issues.

Would you like to explain what actually needs changing now that the card effects have been altered?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

You're expecting SE to back through every single job quest each expansion to ensure the lore fits with updated changes, resources are better spent else where in all fairness. The cards still exist even if the effect is different, nothing to change here.

---

No, the effects aren't different. They are the same. That's the point.

"The fourth heaven has opened its gates, allowing you access to its sacred penetralia. From this day forth, its power is yours to interpret and wield."

-Leveva, Slings and Arrows

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

No, the effects aren't different. They are the same. That's the point.

---

No one is denying the point, but there is nothing to change here. Besides when it comes to in-game lore, you've just been trumped. Do your research.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

From this day forth, its power is yours to interpret and wield."

---

Kinda ironic if you ask me. The cards are AST's identity, something people say has no value, yet it's likely because of it [and spaghetti coding] that they weren't entirely removed.

I'm not going to go deep into the controversy, the healer forums are doing a great job at that, just saying that you could replace all 8 cards with a single spammable buff and it wouldn't change a thing - It's that redundant.

The 30-50 block was all about the cards. The 50-60 block was more about the Sharlyan's coming for Leveva. 60-70 block being all about reinforcing the seal on a Kyubi.

But yeah, a LOT of the AST storyline needs a rework lore wise from the ground up since the class and lore does not match up at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

The 30-50 block was all about the cards. The 50-60 block was more about the Sharlyan's coming for Leveva. 60-70 block being all about reinforcing the seal on a Kyubi.

But yeah, a LOT of the AST storyline needs a rework lore wise from the ground up since the class and lore does not match up at all.

---

The chances of the devs changing the class story are slim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

Kinda ironic if you ask me. The cards are AST's identity, something people say has no value, yet it's likely because of it [and spaghetti coding] that they weren't entirely removed.

I'm not going to go deep into the controversy, the healer forums are doing a great job at that, just saying that you could replace all 8 cards with a single spammable buff and it wouldn't change a thing - It's that redundant.

---

It's a job mechanic.

You could replace Dancer's Dances with a single spammable buff.
You could replace Samurai's Sen with three identical charges and it wouldn't make a difference.
You could replace Monk's stance system with basic combos and it would still play the same.
You could get rid of Veraero, Verstone, Holy and Veraero II and Red Mage would play exactly the same.

The effect on the party might be the same, but the gameplay is not.
The gameplay is pertinent to the Astrologian.
As far as the party is concerned, the effect being consistent is a good thing.

And that gameplay still includes strategy. You need to use the correct cards on the correct targets.
This is no different to the old ‘dps’ oriented cards, Balance, Spear and Arrow. There was always an optimal target for Crit or Speed, a job that could make use of it. Hell, Speed was wasted or even detrimental to some jobs due to causing clipping or rotation drift.

I think it’s disingenuous to say the entire mechanic boils down to one buff.
It’s more accurate to say they reduced it to just dps, to just three of the six cards, as far as the AST side of it is concerned, because as the AST you never felt the effects of crit or speed you used on a DPS anyway. It was always just theoretical numbers in your head, the satisfaction of knowing you've bestowed an effective buff on another player, that's all it ever was.

So they got rid of the healer utility; mitigation (Bole) and mp regen (Ewer) and not having such crucial skills tied to RNG anymore is definitely a bonus. Intersection for mitigation and a better Lucid Dreaming for mp is much better, although they could do with a bit more mp utility elsewhere.
Nobody misses Spire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

It's a job mechanic.

You could replace Dancer's Dances with a single spammable buff.
You could replace Samurai's Sen with three identical charges and it wouldn't make a difference.
You could replace Monk's stance system with basic combos and it would still play the same.
You could get rid of Veraero, Verstone, Holy and Veraero II and Red Mage would play exactly the same.

---

You would however by doing that create massive outrage as the classes lose their identity. Which is what has happened with AST. You take the dances out of dancer and it is no longer dancer. You take the sens out of Samurai and it loses its flavor where its only claim to fame is having a katana. You remove the monk stance system and you break the lore behind how the combat style was formed. Remove the White Mage from the Red Mage and it is no longer a Red Mage but a wannabe Black Mage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

I think it’s disingenuous to say the entire mechanic boils down to one buff.
It’s more accurate to say they reduced it to just dps, to just three of the six cards, as far as the AST side of it is concerned, because as the AST you never felt the effects of crit or speed you used on a DPS anyway. It was always just theoretical numbers in your head, the satisfaction of knowing you've bestowed an effective buff on another player, that's all it ever was.

---

It is not disingenuous, it is being blunt. The entire mechanic literally at this point is one buff. The entire mechanic even fails to achieve the goals of the reason why it was reworked: to remove useless cards and stop fishing. It has instead increased the number of useless cards due to the melee/range split and seals, also because of those things it has drastically increased the amount of fishing you need to do leading to greater furstration then the old system produced.

And it was reduced to just one of the six cards. Not to mention as the AST you could feel the effects of the crit or speed used on a DPS. When that Monk or BRD starts going nuts, or when that BLM and SAM start firing off more big hits. Hell I remember messing around with an FC member on their Warrior, where I managed to help him boost his skillspeed up so that he could fit 8 fel cleaves in a single fel cleave burst window during O1S when it was current content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

So they got rid of the healer utility; mitigation (Bole) and mp regen (Ewer) and not having such crucial skills tied to RNG anymore is definitely a bonus. Intersection for mitigation and a better Lucid Dreaming for mp is much better, although they could do with a bit more mp utility elsewhere.

---

Intersection does not cover for nearly as much effective damage as a bole did, and the old ewer is needed more then ever to help. Not to mention the existence of such utility skills is why the DPS cards could be strong. With them gone the buff we hand out now is weak. To the point where you get more rDPS out of running a WHM/SCH combo instead of anything involving AST.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

You would however by doing that create massive outrage as the classes lose their identity. Which is what has happened with AST. You take the dances out of dancer and it is no longer dancer. You take the sens out of Samurai and it loses its flavor where its only claim to fame is having a katana. You remove the monk stance system and you break the lore behind how the combat style was formed. Remove the White Mage from the Red Mage and it is no longer a Red Mage but a wannabe Black Mage.

---

Completely missing the point.
For all of those job mechanics, they all result in the same effect.
They're all in the same place AST is right now, are all of those jobs complaining?

Are Dancers complaining that different dance steps don't have different effects? That no matter what order they press them it, it always results in a 5% buff?
Are Samurai complaining that different Sen don't have different effects? That it only matters how many they have?
Are Red Mages complaining that their black and white magicks don't have different effects? That Veraero has the same potency and effect as Verthunder?

AST still has a viable job mechanic, where you have to place the correct cards onto the correct targets, to optimise your buffing effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Intersection does not cover for nearly as much effective damage as a bole did, and the old ewer is needed more then ever to help. Not to mention the existence of such utility skills is why the DPS cards could be strong. With them gone the buff we hand out now is weak. To the point where you get more rDPS out of running a WHM/SCH combo instead of anything involving AST.

---

Then that's an issue of potency and balancing.
Make Intersection more effective.
Give AST another MP utility.
But being off an RNG system alone is a huge improvement.
Bole and Ewer were both useless if you never drew them, and they replaced your rDPS contribution when you did.


As for the effectiveness of the buffs, Cards are comparable to Trick Attack.

Trick attack is 10% over 10s every 60s.

Divination being 6% over 15s, is equivalent to 9% over 10s, so only 1% less.
It’s only every 120s though.

But then consider that as Divination is cooling down, you can use four single target cards of the same effect or greater.
Use them on all four DPS in a full party, or all party members in a 4-man, and that’s equivalent to having 2 Divinations every 120s, or… one every 60s.
Then consider you’ll get at least one Minor Arcana for 8% over 15s, which would be equivalent to 12% over 10s, completely making up for that 1% loss to Trick Attack on the other three cards. Except you can target the top DPS instead of it being a blanket buff on all party members.

Throw in Sleeve Draw and you’re in credit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Completely missing the point.
For all of those job mechanics, they all result in the same effect.
They're all in the same place AST is right now, are all of those jobs complaining?

Are Dancers complaining that different dance steps don't have different effects?
Are Samurai complaining that different Sen don't have different effects?
Are Red Mages complaining that their black and white magicks don't have different effects?

AST still has a viable job mechanic, where you have to place the correct cards onto the correct targets, to optimise your buffing effect.

---

Dancers are only complaining about their pDPS feeling too low or some not liking the amount of RNG layers the class has. If you removed the dances, the selling point of the class, they would be in an uproar about that.
Samurai are complaining that their DPS is not comparable to BLMs, and that Monks and Dragoons completely outclass them. If you removed the Sen then they would be in an uproar about that as it means the entire class would need a rework to even function.
Red Mages complain about the fact they still lack Water and Blizzard magic, and that their DPS is too low. If you removed the White Magic or the Black Magic then they cease to be Red Mages as you are removing a selling point.

AST has a "viable" job mechanic that is completely split off from its lore. That again fails to reach its intended design goals and can be distilled into just a ST buff button and a party buff button with a refresh and charges given button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Then that's an issue of potency and balancing.
Make Intersection more effective.
Give AST another MP utility.
But being off an RNG system alone is a huge improvement.
Bole and Ewer were both useless if you never drew them, and they replaced your rDPS contribution when you did.

As for the effectiveness of the buffs, Cards are comparable to Trick Attack.

Trick attack is 10% over 10s every 60s.

Divination being 6% over 15s, is equivalent to 9% over 10s, so only 1% less.
It’s only every 120s though.

But then consider that as Divination is cooling down, you can use four single target cards of the same effect or greater.
Use them on all four DPS in a full party, or all party members in a 4-man, and that’s equivalent to having 2 Divinations every 120s, or… one every 60s.
Then consider you’ll get at least one Minor Arcana for 8% over 15s, which would be equivalent to 12% over 10s, completely making up for that 1% loss to Trick Attack on the other three cards. Except you can target the top DPS instead of it being a blanket buff on all party members.

Throw in Sleeve Draw and you’re in credit.

---

You would need to give intersection a 2000 potency shield to even begin to compare to the amount of effective damage reduction Bole could give over its 30-85 second duration.

Ewer was AST's other MP utility alongside the cost saving of Lightspeed. It makes no sense anywhere else to throw a MP utility on. And the common suggestion is to give AST its old card effects back in addition to the general DPS increase. Which would return Ewer to being that MP utility.

Currently cards are worse then Trick attack in every way. If you get a party of ranged then melee cards become worthless unless you want to chuck an entire sleeve draw rotation onto the tank when it refuses to give you ranged cards. If you get a party of only melees then ranged cards become worthless unless you have a WHM in the party (ASTs pDPS is so laughable that its actually a waste to throw onto yourself). Keep in mind you can only buff the entire party on top of divination once every 3 (well technically 4 if you use Divination on cooldown and did not use Sleeve draw for the opener to get divination) minutes, the sleeve draw cooldown. Keep in mind that Sleeve draw needs to be ideal and give you the right card every time. Otherwise you get worthless buffs.

If you do not get perfect card pulls then it is ultimately worthless. Making Divination itself the only worthwhile buff which again, that is every 2 minutes.

This entire problem is why AST is so rare in high level content. You have to spend a high amount of effort for very low reward that other classes can achieve in a single button press (or in the case of NIN one mudra combination, ninjutsu, and then a positioning check on the trick attack).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Dancers are only complaining about their pDPS feeling too low or some not liking the amount of RNG layers the class has. If you removed the dances, the selling point of the class, they would be in an uproar about that.
Samurai are complaining that their DPS is not comparable to BLMs, and that Monks and Dragoons completely outclass them. If you removed the Sen then they would be in an uproar about that as it means the entire class would need a rework to even function.
Red Mages complain about the fact they still lack Water and Blizzard magic, and that their DPS is too low. If you removed the White Magic or the Black Magic then they cease to be Red Mages as you are removing a selling point.

AST has a "viable" job mechanic that is completely split off from its lore. That again fails to reach its intended design goals and can be distilled into just a ST buff button and a party buff button with a refresh and charges given button.

---

So they're not complaining about sharing the exact same issue as AST then?
Right.


And the rest of your post?
There's more often than not a mix of ranged and melee, especially in 8 man content.
And even when there's not, a 3% buff is not 'useless' and again, doesn't apply to Divination.
So at most, it lowers your rDPS by about 12%.
That's 12% of your 'effective' 10% for 10s every 60s buff, so about 1% less.


EDIT: What a surprise:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5139619

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

So they're not complaining about sharing the exact same issue as AST then?
Right.


And the rest of your post?
There's more often than not a mix of ranged and melee, especially in 8 man content.
And even when there's not, a 3% buff is not 'useless' and again, doesn't apply to Divination.
So at most, it lowers your rDPS by about 12%.
That's 12% of your 'effective' 10% for 10s every 60s buff, so about 1% less.

---

Dancers never had their dances effects altered since their implementation, the only "dance" with a different effect is curing waltz. Samurai never had their sens altered since their implementation. Red Mages never had their elements altered since their implementation.

AST had its entire utility toolkit take from it, changing it to be completely different from its original implementation. That is on an entirely different scale.

As for your other comment... 60% of the time I get all ranged. 30% of the time I get all melee. Its more rare for me to get mixed groups then it is one range type groups. Especially in 8 man content.

Also, a 3% buff is useless. That is 300 extra DPS for someone doing 10k DPS. Which is not much at all in the grand scheme of things. In fact even with divination and sleeve draw stacking you overall increase the rDPS of the group by 2% of the course of an 7-11 minute fight due to the length of the cooldown of divination and sleeve draw. Quite a bit different from the old AST where one could actually achieve a 30 sec 5% damage buff on the party every 60 seconds and every 2 minutes could provide a 40 sec damage buff if one was lucky in pulling balances and keeping a balance in the spread. Something I personally experienced several times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Dancers never had their dances effects altered since their implementation, the only "dance" with a different effect is curing waltz. Samurai never had their sens altered since their implementation. Red Mages never had their elements altered since their implementation.

AST had its entire utility toolkit take from it, changing it to be completely different from its original implementation. That is on an entirely different scale.

As for your other comment... 60% of the time I get all ranged. 30% of the time I get all melee. Its more rare for me to get mixed groups then it is one range type groups. Especially in 8 man content.

Also, a 3% buff is useless. That is 300 extra DPS for someone doing 10k DPS. Which is not much at all in the grand scheme of things. In fact even with divination and sleeve draw stacking you overall increase the rDPS of the group by 2% of the course of an 7-11 minute fight due to the length of the cooldown of divination and sleeve draw. Quite a bit different from the old AST where one could actually achieve a 30 sec 5% damage buff on the party every 60 seconds and every 2 minutes could provide a 40 sec damage buff if one was lucky in pulling balances and keeping a balance in the spread. Something I personally experienced several times.

---

All ranged or all melee in 8 man content, 90% of the time, is bullshit.

And I'm sure you also experienced drawing nothing but Spires and Ewers a fair amount too, right?
When you average it out, a 30s 5% every 60s... compared to... nothing every 60s because you've spend the last 10 minutes drawing Spires... 3% actually looks quite good.

When you're drawing an Expanded Balance every 60s, where is your super useful Bole or Ewer?

What if WHM's has Stone and Tetra share the same button, but it randomly changed to one or the other every 60s?
Having healing utility tied to RNG is and always was just bad design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Why does everyone keep asking this?

So little of the AST plot relies on the "lore" of the individual cards. Leveva gives a two-sentence description of each constellation that vaguely alludes to what each card does. That's all it ever involved. The rest treats "the cards" as a single tool and focuses more on healing magicks, conflict with Ishgard and the characters' personal issues.

Would you like to explain what actually needs changing now that the card effects have been altered?

---

When game play corresponds to lore, immersion intensifies. Breaking that after the fact is worse than if it had never been. It's like a puzzle that was complete has had pieces removed from the middle.

Yeah...old ast quests sure haven't aged well.

Class is dead.

No, because there's no conflict/problems. The dialogue never mentions specific abilities the cards grants, just a lore backstory on the constellation.

But something tells me you already knew that OP and are just trying to create a backdoor complaint against the new card system so you don't get your thread deleted as a duplicate.

thats not SEs fault,people used the same 2-3 cards anyway and threw away the rest.
they have more meaning now than before
[a lot will disagree but be my guest]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

No, because there's no conflict/problems. The dialogue never mentions specific abilities the cards grants, just a lore backstory on the constellation.

But something tells me you already knew that OP and are just trying to create a backdoor complaint against the new card system so you don't get your thread deleted as a duplicate.

---

No they actually tell you what they do, and the cards are what you use to grant the constellation effects which is why the cards are named after them to begin with. Bole extends its branches to protect, Ewer nourishes the soul, Spire invigorates the body, Arrow hastens, Spear creates the critical moment that guides the way to victory, and Balance equalizes the difference between the Strong and the Weak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

No they actually tell you what they do, and the cards are what you use to grant the constellation effects which is why the cards are named after them to begin with. Bole extends its branches to protect, Ewer nourishes the soul, Spire invigorates the body, Arrow hastens, Spear creates the critical moment that guides the way to victory, and Balance equalizes the difference between the Strong and the Weak.

---

Didn’t the spear do something else before? Like reduce CD time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gman1311

Didn’t the spear do something else before? Like reduce CD time?

---

It did, so they changed the card lore before...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

It did, so they changed the card lore before...

---

Holy shit?! They did!? Damn, so you think the devs will change it? If not,meh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Now that the cards effectively have no purpose other than direct damage increase(boring), what was the point of the AST story-line level 50-60 where each card had a meaning, a purpose, and *GAsp* an identity? You broke the job, are you really going to break the lore as well, SE?

---

From what I can recall from the quests, they are vague enough to follow basic martial principals that just lead to better form and, thus, damage. You can consider arrow's "swift and true" to not mean the speed buff it used to give and to just grant decisive strikes. Flavor text.

Moreover, what is the point of creating this thread? To seriously pull resources away from actual content or to simply show how salty some ASTs are over the card changes? Given the gasp and identity comment, I throw my lot in with the latter reason. SMH.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

But yeah, a LOT of the AST storyline needs a rework lore wise from the ground up since the class and lore does not match up at all.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MsQi

When game play corresponds to lore, immersion intensifies. Breaking that after the fact is worse than if it had never been. It's like a puzzle that was complete has had pieces removed from the middle.

---

Where is this "lot of the AST storyline" that needs reworking "from the ground up"? Where has it been "broken" by these changes to the card attributes? Don't just wave your hand at the whole thing; if you think there's a problem with it, point out where. What events rely on the now-lost attributes of the cards, as opposed to the still-intact concepts of fortune-telling and drawing on the aether of the stars to cast healing spells?

Besides the descriptions of the constellations, I'd say not much at all.

It has no bearing on Jannequinard's efforts to spread acceptance of Sharlayan astrology, or Leveva being pursued by assassins, or her aspiration to follow in her father's footsteps.

It has no bearing on the overall explanations for how astromancy works, which simply talk about "the cards" being used to tell a man's fortune and grant him strength in battle.

If anything, it improves the story regarding Sevestre, who is so powerful he has the rare and nigh-incomprehensible power to control time... which made it a bit odd that we'd already picked up some time-manipulation spells by that point.

(Also, as far as making changes to the lore... bigger changes have been made with more actual story impact. And yes it was me that started it, but that's why I've got too much of the AST script semi-memorised and also saved for reference, because documenting that timeline mess took several weeks of obsessive focus until I could finally let it go. And I was really expecting the official answer to be "lorebook typo, don't worry about it".)



I have the script saved from patch 4.4, and Garland Tools has the entire current script available to read, so I can check the old and new descriptions of the cards.


Descriptions in 4.4:

Tutorial battle text since removed:

Quote:

---

You've drawn the Balance! Let the Warden's judgment grant our lance-wielding escort the strength he needs to slay his foes.
You've drawn the Bole! Beseech the Matron to embrace Quimperain, that he may fend off his opponent's blows.
You've drawn the Arrow! Allow the Navigator to guide our escort's lance true.
You've drawn the Spear! The strength of the Fury will benefit any and all who face insurmountable odds.
You have drawn the Ewer! The Scholar will see that the well of magicks within you never runs dry.
You have drawn the Spire! The Destroyer can bless our good guide's lance, granting it the ability to strike deep, if you but will it.

---

The Bole:

Quote:

---

Look to the skies, Forename, and there you will see six stars aglow in pale yellow. This is the Bole.
This constellation is thought to be the gate to the first heaven─the heaven which holds the World Tree. Planted by the Matron and nurtured by the Keeper, the World Tree is the source from which all life is said to have sprung.
The trunk of the World Tree, or the Bole, offers protection to the weak, defending them from harm.
You have now opened that gate, and its power is yours to command.

---

The Balance:

Quote:

---

The Balance represents the heaven of fire─a realm made prosperous by the blessing of the Traders, but at the same time, one whose equilibrium is maintained by the divine judgment of Azeyma, the Warden.
Azeyma's might will empower those who would take up their blades and mete divine punishment in the name of the sun goddess.
And thus has the Balance burned crimson in your heart, unlocking the gate to the second heaven.

---

The Spire:

Quote:

---

In the third heaven rises an iron tower of spinning gears and taut springs constructed by the Builder Himself. It is assailed without cease by the jealous Rhalgr, but the Destroyer's mighty levinbolts only serve to power the spire's clockwork soul.
It is through the blessings of both creation and destruction that strength is granted to she who sees her stars rise under this sign.
You have now opened the gate, and its power is yours to command.

---

The Arrow:

Quote:

---

The fourth heaven─or the heaven of wind─was created atop a lofty peak by Oschon, the Wanderer, whose footsteps had been guided by the Navigator.
The wind that blows off Llymlaen's seas guides the arrow fast and true, and so shall it deliver the weary souls of those trapped in the mire of confusion, indecision, and over contemplation.
The fourth heaven has opened its gates, allowing you access to its sacred penetralia. From this day forth, its power is yours to interpret and wield.

---

The Ewer:

Quote:

---

It is said through the fifth heaven flows a mighty river carrying the water spilled forth from the Scholar's vessel.
And in that water is the knowledge of all that have come before and all who will follow─the aether spun from Nymeia's loom─the aether from which all magicks are drawn and to which all magicks return.
And now the power of the Ewer is forever yours, and forever shall it point you to truth.

---

The Spear:

Quote:

---

The Spear is the gate to the sixth heaven, where the Fury resides in a palace of ice carved by Her own spear─ice formed of moonbeams collected by the Lover, Menphina.
The Spear fills us not only with the power to overcome our enemies, but also the compassion that is necessary to grant those same enemies mercy.
And now that power is yours, to see directed to those whose fates require it.

---

And since 5.0 released:

The Bole:

Quote:

---

This constellation is thought to be the gate to the first heaven─the heaven which holds the World Tree. Planted by the Matron and nurtured by the Keeper, the World Tree is the source from which all life is said to have sprung.
The trunk of the World Tree, or the Bole, grants strength to the weak, allowing them to stand firm in the face of adversity.

---

The Balance:

Quote:

---

no change

---

The Spire:

Quote:

---

no change

---

The Arrow:

Quote:

---

no change

---

The Ewer:

Quote:

---

It is said through the fifth heaven flows a mighty river carrying the water spilled forth from the Scholar's vessel.
And in that water is the strength of all that have come before and all who will follow─thew spun from Nymeia's loom─thew from which might and mettle is weaved.
And now the power of the Ewer is forever yours, and forever shall it point you to victory.

---

The Spear:

Quote:

---

no change

---

So there's the extent of the "ruined" lore, besides some altered lines where quests referenced the skill you gained at the end. Four cards unchanged, the Bole minimally, and the Ewer is the only one that's been rewritten to allow for its effect on physical ranged fighters.

The terms were always vague because the characters can't talk about your critical hit or TP regeneration.

I haven't checked over the 50-60 scripts but all the information about the cards was laid out in 30-50.


Additionally, this is Leveva's unchanged description of how the cards work, long before the effects were altered:

Quote:

---

Any layman will tell you that the cards can predict a man's future. This is both true and untrue. It is not the future that a card predicts, but the card influencing the man so that a certain future becomes more attainable.
Seeking to tell a man's fortune, you “draw” a card from your deck. Upon “reading” the card, you scry that the man will be victorious in a coming battle. What is it that brings this man his victory but aether tapped from one of the lower six heavens granting the man strength, making it all that much easier for him to overcome his enemy.
Of course, what card is drawn is linked directly to a target's destiny, as well as yours. Are you the one who will see this man to fortune, or will you lead him to downfall? It all depends on your reading.

---

The new card system also has its own lore-based logic, with the two sets of three elements corresponding to the two "elemental rock-paper-scissors" triangles within the wheel of six. (See Eureka's magia board, or the Elements poster shown during Shadowbringers MSQ. Also on p.9 of the first lorebook.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankHunter678

No they actually tell you what they do, and the cards are what you use to grant the constellation effects which is why the cards are named after them to begin with. Bole extends its branches to protect, Ewer nourishes the soul, Spire invigorates the body, Arrow hastens, Spear creates the critical moment that guides the way to victory, and Balance equalizes the difference between the Strong and the Weak.

---

Where are you getting those descriptions from? I've never seen them in canon, and Balance in particular doesn't make sense in regards to its actual lore. It's not "balancing" anything, it represents the Scales of Judgement that are the symbol of Azeyma, the goddess associated with the constellation.

It's not from the lorebook either - that only repeats the descriptions given during the quests. It gives very little focus on the individual cards despite having a double page on the Astrologian job and another page specifically on the Deck of Sixty.

Anyway, the constellations can still have all those unique effects - except now they all empower you and boost your strength in some form, instead of affecting other stats that can't be talked about in lore terms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gman1311

Didn’t the spear do something else before? Like reduce CD time?

---

I wasn't around for Heavensward so can't be sure, but wouldn't that be the speed-boosting Arrow?

original card effects:

http://i.imgur.com/WhxemTI.png