DRK do you wish you get Stalwart Soul at LV45 like the rest of the tanks?

Been thinking for a while now. Would it be better to have a AOE Combo that doesn't use MP like the other tanks at LV45 instead of Flood of Darkness that eat too much MP?

https://gfycat.com/elatedglamorousamericanindianhorse
Yes. Yes it would. Flood of Darkness simply is not an acceptable substitute for having the second step of our AoE combo that early. We should really have both. At least then we could regen MP on AoE pulls and thus manage to make liberal use of Flood of Darkness. Still wouldn't make our low level AoE as strong as the others, but it would be a lot better.

I think it should be available within an earlier range but maybe not that early.

The other tabks dont get resources from tgeir 2nd combo until the 70s. War gets gauge as a trait in the 70s when drk gets their mp gain combo.

No drk doesnt need mp at 45 off a combo unless you also give gauge etc to the other tabks at the same level.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

The other tabks dont get resources from tgeir 2nd combo until the 70s. War gets gauge as a trait in the 70s when drk gets their mp gain combo.

No drk doesnt need mp at 45 off a combo unless you also give gauge etc to the other tabks at the same level.

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Warrior does not have to burn gauge to do an acceptable level of damage at low level. That is a strawman argument.

The other tanks also don't have to burn such a massive quantity of MP to get anything done. DRK is currently the weakest tank in any content below 70 by a pretty wide margin. From 1-69 it has the lowest damage output, the weakest mitigation, and the fewest utility tools available.

Straw man? Try again. Drks always focus on the lack of resource gain and combo damage yet entirely ignore all the other pieces of their aoe that has no equivalent on other tanks while leveling.

War: 2 step combo. 130+200. 165 avg. 1 aoe gauge gcd/min (infuriate)
Drk: 1 step. 150. 150 avg + flood+AD+Salted
Pld: 2 step. 150+220. 185 avg+ scorn
Gun: 2 step. 150+250. 200 avg.

Gun. Catridge aoe 72.
Pld. Mp aoe 72
War. Gauge on combo 74
Drk. 2nd combo(mp) 72

Literally no tank gets BOTH resources from aoe AND and aoe to spend that resource on until 72+. Plds get mp to....cast cures? Gun has cartiges but only single target spending option. Drk has the lowest gcd average but the most powerful ogcd that is gained at all times via ticks (pulling, out of combat etc), and still gained with other actions (C&S, blood weapon, etc) which evens it out with the lower gcd potency vs other tanks who have none of that. And lets not forget their 2 other aoes which gun and war have nothing to compare and only scorn on pld.

No one gets their full aoe potential until 72/74. Before that drk does similar damage to the other tanks with a gcd and powerful ogcd while other tanks do it with stronger gcds.

Is it boring to spam 1 gcd forever? Sure. Is it weaker? Nope. Flood (pre trait) does the same damage as the best tanks GCD action as an ogcd and has ways to slowly get that resource well before 72 in addition to 2 other ogcd aoes. It just goes into overdrive at 72.

Drk is fine at aoe. They have a low gcd potency but the most ogcd potency. Other 3 just have gcds and scorn.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

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So let me get this straight. It's perfectly fine for DRK to mash a single button along with the occasional oGCD on trash pulls for the vast majority of its leveling experience while simultaneously being weaker defensively than the other tanks until it finally gets TBN. Also, your own numbers indicate that DRK has slightly less AoE DPS. It doesn't get Salted Earth for quite a while either.

Oh, and let's consider this for a moment: Abyssal Drain and Salted Earth are tied to cooldowns. Flood of Darkness/Shadow, meanwhile, eats enough MP that you probably aren't going to get to use it much during each individual pull. Even pulling wall to wall, its limited number of uses coupled with how long trash pulls typically take to AoE down in lower level dungeons ultimately results in DRK being vastly outstripped in its contribution to AoE damage by the other tanks. The numbers may appear similar up front, but that changes rather swiftly once gameplay comes into it. Of course, this is only true while leveling. DRK at high level actually has some very powerful AoE through its cooldowns and enhanced oGCDs.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

So let me get this straight. It's perfectly fine for DRK to mash a single button along with the occasional oGCD on trash pulls for the vast majority of its leveling experience while simultaneously being weaker defensively than the other tanks until it finally gets TBN. Also, your own numbers indicate that DRK has slightly less AoE DPS. It doesn't get Salted Earth for quite a while either.

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Moving goalposts much? You said aoe was weaker. I pointed out that it wasnt. Now you are talking about boring (which i already pointed out before you anyway) and trash pull defenses.

I did not make a statement on that. Just responded to your innacurate claim that drk needs stalwart soul to do more aoe damage because it would actually jump drk WAY up in aoe damage pre 70 when it was already fine there due to everything i pointed out above.

So dont putt words in my mouth. I never made any claim beyond what i said and one of those is agreeing with you. 1 gcd is boring, but that doesnt make it weak.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Moving goalposts much? You said aoe was weaker. I pointed out that it wasnt. Now you are talking about boring (which i already pointed out before you anyway) and trash pull defenses.

I did not make a statement on that. Just responded to your innacurate claim that drk needs stalwart soul to do more aoe damage because it would actually jump drk WAY up in aoe damage pre 70 when it was already fine there due to everything i pointed out above.

So dont putt words in my mouth. I never made any claim beyond what i said and one of those is agreeing with you. 1 gcd is boring, but that doesnt make it weak.

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No one put words in your mouth. Keep the conversation civil. I asserted that you are mistaken. The numbers corroborate the assertion that you are mistaken, though I have already conceded that the difference isn't that large. The mention of its weaker defensives is a secondary argument relating to this fact by way of implying that DRK should be compensated for this. If it is going to have marginally weaker AoE than the other tanks whilst leveling, then it should not have considerably weaker defenses while leveling. Simple logic.

The issue of balance caused by introducing Stalwart Soul earlier could be addressed by either removing the MP regen from it or making Flood of Darkness weaker. They could then introduce a trait that would restore Flood of Darkness/Shadow to its original full strength when appropriate.

If you want to male claims about dps then use numbers. No one in thisnthread has actually shown any data to support the base claim that drk is bad at aoe damage vs other tanks.

If you use every action and ability on CD that is an aoe on drk pre 70 you end up with 93 potency per second.

Gcd 150/2.5. 60pps
Passive mp regen tics (15tics. 250pot) 16.66pps
CS 600mp/min 5.55pps
Salted 900pot/90sec. 10pps
AD 200ppt/min. 3.33 pps.
BW mp 200pot/min. 4.166pps
Bw blood. 1 quietus/min. 60pot over 150 gcd. 1pps

Total: 84.88 pps.
Darkside bonus 10%. 93.37pps.

War: same deal.
Gcd combo: 66pps
Infuriate. 1pps (becomes 1.416pps for decimate lv 60)
Total: 67pps (67.41 at 60)
Eye buff 10%. 73.7 pps (74.1 at 60)

Zerk is a little wierd because it depends on what gcds you use and crit gear, but if you just assume you are using everything on cd and it roughly doubles damage its a flat boost of 22.22% overall.
Zerk estimate 90.07pps (90.63pps at 60)

Wow. Much difference. Drk so gimp. War 90 vs drk 93 which is about the difference of using better gcds during zerk. If you want to look at other tanks rotations be my guest but ive made my point. Tank dps is VERY balanced at all stages right now. Single target. Aoe. While leveling. At cap. This is the most balanced offensive state tanks have ever been in.

The mp gain of 2nd combo alone is a 12 pps gain which is utterly massive when everones in the low 90s.

If you dont like the way a job feels to play, by all means dislike it. But dont just make wild unsubstantiated claims of imbalance balance because youre bored in a lv 55 dungeon on drk. This is not the 1st thread that just blindly claims drk aoe damage is sub par and needs mega buffing at low levels.

Drk has more aoe actions and ogcds to manage at low levels and an mp gauge to manage. I suspect that is why they limited it to 1 aoe gcd. Just look at the list of potencies. War has 2 gcds, zerk, infuriate and the gcd you get from infuriate. Thats it. Thats their dungeon play. Drk has 1 gcd and many ogcds, ground effect, etc to manage. So you want to talk about boring? Every tank is boring at low levels. Thats what we get with ability crunches.

Tldr: drk damage is perfectly fine. Every tank is slow and boring in low level dungeons.

If youre issue is ACTUALLY about squishynes. Then address that. 1 more gcd to push does jack for how much damage you take.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

If you want to male claims about dps then use numbers. No one in thisnthread has actually shown any data to support the base claim that drk is bad at aoe damage vs other tanks.

If you use every action and ability on CD that is an aoe on drk pre 70 you end up with 93 potency per second.

Gcd 150/2.5. 60pps
Passive mp regen tics (15tics. 250pot) 16.66pps
CS 600mp/min 5.55pps
Salted 900pot/90sec. 10pps
AD 200ppt/min. 3.33 pps.
BW mp 200pot/min. 4.166pps
Bw blood. 1 quietus/min. 60pot over 150 gcd. 1pps

Total: 84.88 pps.
Darkside bonus 10%. 93.37pps.

War: same deal.
Gcd combo: 66pps
Infuriate. 1pps (becomes 1.416pps for decimate lv 60)
Total: 67pps (67.41 at 60)
Eye buff 10%. 73.7 pps (74.1 at 60)

Zerk is a little wierd because it depends on what gcds you use and crit gear, but if you just assume you are using everything on cd and it roughly doubles damage its a flat boost of 22.22% overall.
Zerk estimate 90.07pps (90.63pps at 60)

Wow. Much difference. Drk so gimp. War 90 vs drk 93 which is about the difference of using better gcds during zerk. If you want to look at other tanks rotations be my guest but ive made my point. Tank dps is VERY balanced at all stages right now. Single target. Aoe. While leveling. At cap. This is the most balanced offensive state tanks have ever been in.

The mp gain of 2nd combo alone is a 12 pps gain which is utterly massive when everones in the low 90s.

If you dont like the way a job feels to play, by all means dislike it. But dont just make wild unsubstantiated claims of imbalance balance because youre bored in a lv 55 dungeon on drk. This is not the 1st thread that just blindly claims drk aoe damage is sub par and needs mega buffing at low levels.

Drk has more aoe actions and ogcds to manage at low levels. I suspect that is why they limited it to 1 aoe gcd. Just look at the list of potencies. War has 2 gcds, infuriate and the gcd you get from infuriate. Thats it. Thats their dungeon play. Drk has 1 gcd and many ogcds, ground effect, etc to manage. So you want to talk about boring? Every tank is boring at low levels. Thats what we get with ability crunches.

Tldr: drk damage is perfectly fine. Every tank is slow and boring in low level dungeons.

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1 Flood cost 3000/10000 MP.

And I play PLD,GNB. They're not slow and boring. I can spam AOE COMBO at no cost and kill all mob that stand in my path easily. Meanwhile DRK below Lv.72 is mp starving.

It's fine because they get Mana *and* Blood w/ it at 72.

If they removed the mana and blood until 72 or something as a trait and gave it early, it'd be okay, too.

But the damage is not that big of a difference while leveling, and any additional cds gained for defense is not that noticeable either at a low level, since your 20 and 30% is more than enough for basically any big pull prior to 70 as Drk

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

1 Flood cost 3000/10000 MP.

And I play PLD,GNB. They're not slow and boring. I can spam AOE COMBO at no cost and kill all mob that stand in my path easily. Meanwhile DRK below Lv.72 is mp starving.

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I accounted for the mp cost if you read the post. Both in passive regen and from all actions that give mp at those levels. So your point is?

If you think hitting ABABAB is some amazing engaging gameplay drk is missing out on instead of hitting AAAAAA then youre entitled to your opinion. I see no real difference between them. Managing that mp and ogcds on timers is FAR more engaging than having no resources to manage and spamming 2 buttons in sequence for entire dungeons. But again, liking or not liking a playstyle is personal preference. Dps, however, is not an opinion. In this regard tanks are the most balanced they have ever been. You want to talk about trash pull mitigation and subjective 'fun-ness' go right ahead.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

I accounted for the mp cost if you read the post. Both in passive regen and from all actions that give mp at those levels. So your point is?

If you think hitting ABABAB is some amazing engaging gameplay drk is missing out on instead of hitting AAAAAA then youre entitled to your opinion. I see no real difference between them. Managing that mp and ogcds on timers is FAR more engaging than having no resources to manage and spamming 2 buttons in sequence for entire dungeons. But again, liking or not liking a playstyle is personal preference. Dps, however, is not an opinion. In this regard tanks are the most balanced they have ever been. You want to talk about trash pull mitigation and subjective 'fun-ness' go right ahead.

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The topic is DRK below 72 and it isn't balance when DRK can only use 3 floods, about 6 six when using blood weapon for the first pull and then went MP starving at the next wave. You talk about "manage" so tell me how're you going to manage the flood that cost 3000/10000? by wait for the Syphon Strike to regen or wait 60 seconds for a tiny mp regen from Carve and Spit? and during that time how're you going to aoe when both Syphon Strike and Unleash is GCD?

GNB AOE combo potency is 400
Palandin AOE combo potency is 340
DRK's Unleash potency is 150

Paladin Circle of Scorn full potency is 295 with 25 secs recast time.
DRK's Salted Earth full potency is 300 with 90 secs recast time.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Warrior does not have to burn gauge to do an acceptable level of damage at low level. That is a strawman argument.

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Neither does DRK, due to the massive potency increase of Flood of Darkness oGCDs, even if you were to only ever get 3-4 over the course of an AoE fight. We're talking up to an extra 1k potency from that alone. How many Mythril Tempest potency bonuses over Overpower would that take you, and how many seconds to put those out?

I'm not saying DRK shouldn't have stuff earlier, but its AoE output is sufficient over that level range.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Stuff

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There appears to be a miscommunication going on here. My complaints about DRK's gameplay in low level dungeons are limited to the pre-52 bracket. Chain pulling while continually starved of MP but also having nothing but Unleash until ticks bring you back up enough to use Flood again really isn't ideal, you have to admit. If you'll take a look at your own math, you'll see that I'm right. I'm not saying DRK is /bad/, I'm just saying you'd be better served using one of the other tanks in that level bracket.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Neither does DRK, due to the massive potency increase of Flood of Darkness oGCDs, even if you were to only ever get 3-4 over the course of an AoE fight. We're talking up to an extra 1k potency from that alone. How many Mythril Tempest potency bonuses over Overpower would that take you, and how many seconds to put those out?

I'm not saying DRK shouldn't have stuff earlier, but its AoE output is sufficient over that level range.

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Odds are only your initial pull will see four floods. Subsequent pulls will probably involve a single Flood, maybe two if the DPS are slow. The majority of your time ends up being spent spamming a 150 potency Unleash while waiting for your MP to tick back up. Either way, I am not and have not made the claim that DRK has an unacceptable level of damage. My assertion was that it is the only tank job that has to burn such a large amount of MP to achieve the desired effect. Again, I reiterate that Flood itself is not the problem. Flood is a strong ability that gives you a lot of burst potential in low level dungeons. The only problem is that pesky MP issue when chain pulling. That's it. That is literally my only complaint about DRK's damage.

Okay! So now that that's hopefully completely over and done with, here's the real problem with DRK at low level: Its defenses suck pre-70. I'm surprised more people aren't bringing this up. Dark Mind might as well not even exist on most pulls.

Honestly I couldn't care about how much damage it does at lower levels, its just REALLY boring to play under level72 since it just 1 button spam with a occasional oGCD in AoE.

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Originally Posted by RiotSiren

Honestly I couldn't care about how much damage it does at lower levels, its just REALLY boring to play under level72 since it just 1 button spam with a occasional oGCD in AoE.

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And 3 buttons in the sequence spam is better because..?

To me the main thing that feels bizarre about Drk in AOE terms is getting Quietus at 64 but not having a way to generate blood to use it outside of single target until 72. I mean we "technically" have Blood Weapon once per minute but due to the issue with Blood Weapon vs spell speed, unless you throw out a single target combo, you won't get enough blood to use Quietus until your next Blood Weapon.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

And 3 buttons in the sequence spam is better because..?

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Because it's 3 buttons.

I mean it's not level80 nin rotation sure but its still more to do.
Plus it actually lets you play with the class resource more. I always find it odd how they gave DRK a AoE resource spender but not a AoE resource generator. Anyways DRK always just felt incomplete due to that and the fact that they lack pretty heavily in mitigation compared to the other tanks till 70. It just feel awkward to play at low level, its not a problem unique to DRK just seems out of place since all the other tanks get their 2nd AoE combo around level 40, which are all new in this expansion as well.

Just need more ways to get mana back besides waiting a whole ONE MINUTE for bloodweapon. But I would love to have our AOE combo a lot sooner, but I also want either another CD or TBN to be acquired at a lower level. I depend on it too much and I feel very defenseless without it.

They should make it lvl 45, who cares if it will be a little strong, its just literally for a content that is barely ever played...
Its not like its going to break pvp or something.

I agree, balancing for older less played content is kinda pointless. It kinda mirrors how I feel about the talk about needing TBN sooner, stuff in old content hits like a wet noodle and is about as durable as tissue paper. TBH I barely notice the lack of CDs since stuff does die so fast.

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Originally Posted by Sancho_Nyanta

I agree, balancing for older less played content is kinda pointless. It kinda mirrors how I feel about the talk about needing TBN sooner, stuff in old content hits like a wet noodle and is about as durable as tissue paper. TBH I barely notice the lack of CDs since stuff does die so fast.

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Pointless? when duty roulete take you to older less played content everyday?

This whole thread is all over the place. People are conflating the arguments about whether the DRK AoE is "strong enough" with "fun enough". I'm a Paladin main, but have been leveling DRK (currently 56) and using GNB if we're doing 60 leveling content. Even got my WAR to 16 now, so I can leveling roulette it. The one thing that has held true for all these classes? Low level game play is boring, no matter the class. Sure, for PLD, you get a 2 button combo at 45, but that's it. It's not terribly more engaging than the 1 button combo + oGCD that DRK gets at the same level. At least, at level 35, DRK is more engaging. :P

I think, rather than moving Stalwart Soul up, I'd rather the devs work on revamping the level sync system. Make our stats middle-to-low end for the level, but let us keep all our abilities. If I have to run Copperbell Mines every time I go into a leveling queue (which, anecdotal evidence suggests is true), it would be way more tolerable if I had my whole kit, even if my stats were low for the content.

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Originally Posted by waterboytkd

This whole thread is all over the place. People are conflating the arguments about whether the DRK AoE is "strong enough" with "fun enough". I'm a Paladin main, but have been leveling DRK (currently 56) and using GNB if we're doing 60 leveling content. Even got my WAR to 16 now, so I can leveling roulette it. The one thing that has held true for all these classes? Low level game play is boring, no matter the class. Sure, for PLD, you get a 2 button combo at 45, but that's it. It's not terribly more engaging than the 1 button combo + oGCD that DRK gets at the same level. At least, at level 35, DRK is more engaging. :P

I think, rather than moving Stalwart Soul up, I'd rather the devs work on revamping the level sync system. Make our stats middle-to-low end for the level, but let us keep all our abilities. If I have to run Copperbell Mines every time I go into a leveling queue (which, anecdotal evidence suggests is true), it would be way more tolerable if I had my whole kit, even if my stats were low for the content.

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What I want to say : DRK is the slowest among the tanks to clear the pull below lv72 when there's more than 1 pull to clear. So I think it might be better to get Stalwart Soul instead of the Flood of Darkness at lower level and ask DRK if they feel the same.

It have nothing to do with boringness.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

What I want to say : DRK is the slowest among the tanks to clear the pull below lv72 when there's more than 1 pull to clear. So I think it might be better to get Stalwart Soul instead of the Flood of Darkness at lower level and ask DRK if they feel the same.

It have nothing to do with boringness.

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I guess I'm unsure what we're talking about. Are we playing solo content? Because in group content, the speed of the clear is far more dependent on the dps in the group, isn't it?

EDIT: as far as this goes, "Stalwart Soul instead of the Flood of Darkness", my personal opinion is no. Getting mana back would be pointless without Flood of Darkness, and given the low potency of Stalwart Soul (160 with combo; though it does build blood, that too is pointless before 62/64), you actually do better with Flood, yeah? The 10% damage boost from Darkside is better?

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Originally Posted by waterboytkd

I guess I'm unsure what we're talking about. Are we playing solo content? Because in group content, the speed of the clear is far more dependent on the dps in the group, isn't it?

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If both DRK and other tanks have the same group of dps, group that have DRK is still the slowest.

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Originally Posted by jetfire117

Just need more ways to get mana back besides waiting a whole ONE MINUTE for bloodweapon. But I would love to have our AOE combo a lot sooner, but I also want either another CD or TBN to be acquired at a lower level. I depend on it too much and I feel very defenseless without it.

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And i would like to not have to wait ONE MINUTE to use steel cyclone as war and spen the other 57.5 seconds hitting 2 buttons back and forth. Drk isnt some special snowflake with lame, slow gameplay at lv 49. Oh wait. If were talking pre 50 war doesnt even jave infuriate. War literally hits 2 gcd buttons back and forth forever. Then one every 90 seconds hits zerk. 2 attack actions and 1 damage buff. Thats warrior pre 50. Drk has about the same number if actions that also come up slowly. You want to talk about boring? Go play war below 50.

ALL JOBS ARE SLOW PRE 50. thats what halpens when you prune down abilities and spread them over 80 levels when we used to have the same number of actions crammed into 50 levels.

Low level dungeons are just boring by design. Thats not a drk specific issue.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

If both DRK and other tanks have the same group of dps, group that have DRK is still the slowest.

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Gotcha. I did make an edit to my original post, but I was probably too slow for your comment. I'm not 100% sure what I stated is correct.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

Pointless? when duty roulete take you to older less played content everyday?

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Yes, this is true but no one is actively playing any specific older content each day. Of course with a notable shout out to the 24 man roulette and raid roulettes which I think are only old content. As you said it is just that the duty roulette "may" take you to old content. Now I do agree that "old" content is specifically pre-current expansion. If we are at the end of SB then I wouldn't consider the first dungeon of SB to be "old" content.

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Originally Posted by Sancho_Nyanta

Yes, this is true but no one is actively playing any specific older content each day. Of course with a notable shout out to the 24 man roulette and raid roulettes which I think are only old content. As you said it is just that the duty roulette "may" take you to old content. Now I do agree that "old" content is specifically pre-current expansion. If we are at the end of SB then I wouldn't consider the first dungeon of SB to be "old" content.

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I have to do older Alliance Raid & Level Roulete for a Cracked Stellaclusters for 3 weeks straight now.

Have to is a strong word. Especially when you could make the gil to buy those materia in less time than the raid. Youre choosing to play old content every day, not being forced to.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Have to is a strong word. Especially when you could make the gil to buy those materia in less time than the raid. Youre choosing to play old content every day, not being forced to.

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Or don't do it at all? sound like an option.

Stellacluster could turn to any combat materia to be used for any combat classes that I like and it can be stocked.

Meanwhile if I buy materia it can only be used for a certain combat class.

It is called "Roulete" for a reason that is because we can't choose the content it take us too.

*Also, I didn't say that I won't do lower content. I just want DRK to be able to clear it as fast as other tanks*

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Originally Posted by Izsha

And i would like to not have to wait ONE MINUTE to use steel cyclone as war and spen the other 57.5 seconds hitting 2 buttons back and forth. Drk isnt some special snowflake with lame, slow gameplay at lv 49. Oh wait. If were talking pre 50 war doesnt even jave infuriate. War literally hits 2 gcd buttons back and forth forever. Then one every 90 seconds hits zerk. 2 attack actions and 1 damage buff. Thats warrior pre 50. Drk has about the same number if actions that also come up slowly. You want to talk about boring? Go play war below 50.

ALL JOBS ARE SLOW PRE 50. thats what halpens when you prune down abilities and spread them over 80 levels when we used to have the same number of actions crammed into 50 levels.

Low level dungeons are just boring by design. Thats not a drk specific issue.

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You don't need to lurk in this thread about DRK either. If you really want to tell other people that

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Originally Posted by Izsha

You want to talk about boring? Go play war below 50.

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Then go and make a new thread.

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Originally Posted by waterboytkd

I think, rather than moving Stalwart Soul up, I'd rather the devs work on revamping the level sync system. Make our stats middle-to-low end for the level, but let us keep all our abilities. If I have to run Copperbell Mines every time I go into a leveling queue (which, anecdotal evidence suggests is true), it would be way more tolerable if I had my whole kit, even if my stats were low for the content.

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This^ Though I could also see an argument for allowing us to keep our abilities and current stats since old content is no longer relevant. That said, I can also see the opposite end of that argument: new players wouldn't get any sort of first timer joy in a dungeon if everything is deleted in three seconds.

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Originally Posted by waterboytkd

I guess I'm unsure what we're talking about. Are we playing solo content? Because in group content, the speed of the clear is far more dependent on the dps in the group, isn't it?

EDIT: as far as this goes, "Stalwart Soul instead of the Flood of Darkness", my personal opinion is no. Getting mana back would be pointless without Flood of Darkness, and given the low potency of Stalwart Soul (160 with combo; though it does build blood, that too is pointless before 62/64), you actually do better with Flood, yeah? The 10% damage boost from Darkside is better?

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Even without Flood we still have Edge.

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Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

*Also, I didn't say that I won't do lower content. I just want DRK to be able to clear it as fast as other tanks*

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Could you provide any evidence that drk actually clears lower level content slower? Because there are a lot if people saying that and no one ine backing it up. I showed some math that shows war and drks damage being near equal. If you have information to the contrary please share with the class.

As for stockpiling clusters, you can atockpile gil as easily as clusters and it will buy you any materia your heart desires and even non materia items if all you want is future materia. No one is forcing people to play low level content. If its so terribly unfun se will see the lack if X jobs cueing for x thing. No need to make yourself suffer for a cluster.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

As for stockpiling clusters, you can atockpile gil as easily as clusters and it will buy you any materia your heart desires and even non materia items if all you want is future materia. No one is forcing people to play low level content. If its so terribly unfun se will see the lack if X jobs cueing for x thing. No need to make yourself suffer for a cluster.

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I could just love to collect thing like the stellaclusters but then you just have to go and decided for me about What is best for me. *sigh*

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Could you provide any evidence that drk actually clears lower level content slower? Because there are a lot if people saying that and no one ine backing it up. I showed some math that shows war and drks damage being near equal. If you have information to the contrary please share with the class.

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Lacking mana to use flood in the second pull and beyond does not give it away?