SE can you stop making FFXIV so easy and jobs so similar to each other?

As a player who has been playing the game since 2.0, i feel FFXIV is get too easy and the jobs are becoming very homogenized and bland, Here are some examples that i feel needs to be addressed.

1. Astrologian was a healer who had unique cards that had different ways to support the party, you had a choice how to support the party, for damage mitigation, it was bold, MP restoration on that other healer who died? Royal road that spire and give an enhanced Ewer to that healer, and why not add that Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition to increase that buff. my point is that you took AST ruined its uniqueness and made all the cards a balance with a 4% or 6% buff because of balance was too OP. Not everyone was fishing for balances SE, we played the cards that was in our hands, its fate and the RNG that i loved about the job and now what is it? a gold fish job. Bring back and the cards and support buffs that made AST great.

2. implementation of Hybrid or Support Role: FFXIV Jobs are very too similar to each other and FFXIV suffers from the holy Trinity system, that makes Jobs, not unique in anyway except a little flavor here and there like dragoon jump for example, i think the having a new Role "SUPPORT & HYBRID" can give us freedom to play roles in a more diverse way. this also makes it easier to add new jobs to the game where they can really stand out from each other and true to it's job identity.

3. Monsters in the open world: There is no threat to these monsters and the world of Ezorea does not feel dangerous in anyway, i was hoping since we are level 80, we can see level 81 mobs or dangerous monsters in the world but nothing is a threat here, there is no sense of danger, not even S or a ranks are a threat, there is no dangerous areas in the game, i don't want to feel powerful , i want to be afraid, i want to have fear of going somewhere. i want to feel that danger, i want to FEEL THAT RUSH.

4. Desynthesis made easy: "Desynthesis rate will be 100% guaranteed
and no need to level up skills" I ask why? because someone felt that they didn't feel the amount of time and effort was worth it? I can tell you that is is worth it and that rewarding satisfaction going from a low percent of success and watch it go to a higher percentage once the desynth succeeded was well worth it. i saved and spent 4 million gil on this expansion, buying vendor gear and breaking them down. I made all these HQ tinking calms and bacon broth and now i can desynth ilvl440 gear with ease with leather worker , Goldsmith and Weaver. It was a very satisfying challenge, in it's own right that i enjoyed. now what?

I love FFXIV but i feel like its getting too easier that there is no challenge in anything anymore, and your making jobs so similar, there's nothing that makes them different from another. you can have a raid full of red mages or summoners and whats the difference when they all bring raw dps?

i like Alexandre_Noireau idea

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

I would like to see a new Role. That would need a massive modification to most encounters to account for a new 4th role. It could also be a "Hybrid Role" that replaces one DPS and then you just have to reduce HP bars based on a new party config with naturally lower DPS.

Role: Support .
Function: Supporters do hybrid functions like DPS/Healing or DPS/tanking but focus mostly on status alterations, enfeeblements and buffing. Thus, they are not better than healers, DPS or Tanks in their roles, but they bring much more utility for the team play. And also give a reason to be to status resistances and who knows, maybe elements might become relevant. Icon: Purple.

Jobs for Support.
Blue Mage - Caster/Healer - Cane - Debuffer (Alternate Statuses). Blue Mage has a huge array of poisoning, weakening, blind, and other status effect attacks. They also cover areas, being a massive debuffer of enemy groups with a little of healing on the side and mostly low damage, has no burst and only relies on DoTs. (less offensive than SMN)
Mystic Knight - Tank/Caster - Mace - Buffer (Elemental Damage/Resistances). Mystic Knight has a pretty solid resistance against attacks, and have many buffs to prevent damage and play with elemental resistances. His damage output is pretty low but has solid bursts. (Lowest DPS of all tanks, higher DPS than healers)
Risk Breaker - Ranged/Melee - Curved Sword - Debuffer/Buffer (Damage Types/Resistances). Very low Attack has a ranged combo build up (builds up risks) while buffing his group for damage types and elements, and after risk is build, spends it on melee AoE finishers that consume party buffs and turn them into enemy group debuffs. (has the highest DPS of Supporters).

All classes are feeling way too similar, the game has already being too streamlined for too long in terms of builds and player style and customization. Is the price to pay for balance and honestly, i don't know if its worth it. We should get more freedom to play roles in a more diverse way, the trinity has served it's function, is time to move on.

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No.

Open world's monsters being difficult is not fun or engaging. There is no rush there. Only tedium. If you want to feel afraid, go do second coil savage minimum ilvl. Or ultimate.




Jobs are not the same. They are similar because they have to be able to perform the same roles.

Maybe it's time for people to find other games if this one is so against everything they want.

I forgot desynthesis existed. I used to make so much gil from demimateria back when that was a thing.

One job has a skill, other job complains until they get the same thing. People complain about jobs being the same after literally asking for them to be the same.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

3. Monsters in the open world: There is no threat to these monsters and the world of Ezorea does not feel dangerous in anyway, i was hoping since we are level 80, we can see level 81 mobs or dangerous monsters in the world but nothing is a threat here, there is no sense of danger, not even S or a ranks are a threat, there is no dangerous areas in the game, i don't want to feel powerful , i want to be afraid, i want to have fear of going somewhere. i want to feel that danger, i want to FEEL THAT RUSH.

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We got another Zenos here.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No.

Open world's monsters being difficult is not fun or engaging. There is no rush there. Only tedium. If you want to feel afraid, go do second coil savage minimum ilvl. Or ultimate.




Jobs are not the same. They are similar because they have to be able to perform the same roles.

Maybe it's time for people to find other games if this one is so against everything they want.

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I can express my concern with this game and FFXIV greatly suffers from the Holy Trinity system, the DPS jobs feel samey. And in outside of just DPS what can they do?

This thread is new and totally interesting.




/s

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I can express my concern with this game and FFXIV greatly suffers from the Holy Trinity system, the DPS jobs feel samey. And in outside of just DPS what can they do?

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I'm glad I can assign buttons the same way on mch, drg, monk, Sam, and DNC.

Oh wait, I can't. They don't function the same.

Of course they all do dps. That's like complaining all cars have wheels.


Adding a support role won't change these things. People like to see big numbers. That's why dps is the most played role. Support roles would have to be either completely broken or incredibly lame so they don't break the game. It's not going to happen.

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3. Monsters in the open world: There is no threat to these monsters and the world of Ezorea does not feel dangerous in anyway, i was hoping since we are level 80, we can see level 81 mobs or dangerous monsters in the world but nothing is a threat here, there is no sense of danger, not even S or a ranks are a threat, there is no dangerous areas in the game, i don't want to feel powerful , i want to be afraid, i want to have fear of going somewhere. i want to feel that danger, i want to FEEL THAT RUSH.

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Imagine this being a thing and you have to go from X to Y for a quest without flying as a newbie.
This would be ridiculously annoying like it is in GW2.

I am better with being strongest on earth warrior of light, the killer of gods and dragons, who fought the apocalypse himself, than a weak noodle who will die from tree attacking him.
Can you even imagine how would that look? You could fight and defeat incredibly strong entities who are able to change reality and destroy it, yet you get killed by a bunch of rabbits or mushrooms.
That would be double ridiculous.

NO, lets write it down again.
You are playing a demi-god hercules-like warrior of light, the storngest "humanoid" in the universe who fought and defeated the world destroyer, Gods, dragons and entities who are able to change the physics and manipulate space and do anything they want, aaand you get killed by a squirell or turtle.
That would be the lamest thing i have ever seen.

I would be fine with overworld enemies being more difficult, if that meant more punishing+tricky avoidable mechanics. If it just meant more hp or more damaging autos, then that's just boring.

Have you tried savage or extremes at all?

Honestly tho what would make us fight a lvl81 mob? Like what reward or incentive is there to do it if they put it in?
Honestly imo they should just change the whole fate system. Make it like world quests from wow. So that they reward you with like halfway gear or something (ex: ilvl435, 455, etc) so if you don’t want to do the crafting route you can just do fates to get the same ilvl gear but without the extra stats from the high crafted gear. This could then cause ppl to go around areas and fight high end mobs like you suggested but this is just me spitballing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I'm glad I can assign buttons the same way on mch, drg, monk, Sam, and DNC.

Oh wait, I can't. They don't function the same.

Of course they all do dps. That's like complaining all cars have wheels.


Adding a support role won't change these things. People like to see big numbers. That's why dps is the most played role. Support roles would have to be either completely broken or incredibly lame so they don't break the game. It's not going to happen.

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Having a support role won't break the game but expand on jobs that already exists in the game and other jobs to come into FFXIV in the future. This game is all Balance all jobs but the problem here is that you end up with all the joba feeling the same and while there are range jobs and melee jobs like as you said, do they really do anything else? Why can't we have a melee healer? Why can't we have Red mage have acess to vecure II or ver-regen? They are red mages and should have access to some of white mages more healing kit. Why can't Bard have it's support skills songs back? Bard is known to be a support job rather than DPS , that is Ranger.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Imagine this being a thing and you have to go from X to Y for a quest without flying as a newbie.
This would be ridiculously annoying like it is in GW2.

I am better with being strongest on earth warrior of light, the killer of gods and dragons, who fought the apocalypse himself, than a weak noodle who will die from tree attacking him.
Can you even imagine how would that look? You could fight and defeat incredibly strong entities who are able to change reality and destroy it, yet you get killed by a bunch of rabbits or mushrooms.
That would be double ridiculous.

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I wouldn't want 81 mobs to be on an area where quests are done at for casual players but an area that is optional, where some hard side quests are at

Yes I have

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Having a support role won't break the game but expand on jobs that already exists in the game and other jobs to come into FFXIV in the future. This game is all Balance all jobs but the problem here is that you end up with all the joba feeling the same and while there are range jobs and melee jobs like as you said, do they really do anything else? Why can't we have a melee healer? Why can't we have Red mage have acess to vecure II or ver-regen? They are red mages and should have access to some of white mages more healing kit. Why can't Bard have it's support skills songs back? Bard is known to be a support job rather than DPS , that is Ranger.

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Is it?

Or is this your XI experience dictating what xivs jobs should be like.

I didn't play Xi, so I never played a ff game with ranger as a job. All I know is archer, which, surprise, is a dps job.

Maybe we should let the game act like every other ff title, and be it's own thing with similarities, instead of saying "well, in the other mmo it was this way, so it has to be this way".

"Desynthesis made easy"... Right? Well, tell me then how a newbie can EASILY get their desynth leveled up from e.g. 0? The ol' brain-fart gaps in ilvl are still there... I gave up desynth long ago - can't be arsed to farm ex's just to get a notch more lvl. To get my goldsmith desynth up to shadowbringers? Yea, won't happen - ever.

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Originally Posted by AniKai

"Desynthesis made easy"... Right? Well, tell me then how a newbie can EASILY get their desynth leveled up from e.g. 0? The ol' brain-fart gaps in ilvl are still there... I gave up desynth long ago - can't be arsed to farm ex's just to get a notch more lvl. To get my goldsmith desynth up to shadowbringers? Yea, won't happen - ever.

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You don't even have to farm ex for dysnthing...? You just buy cheap vendor gear or go unsynch in a low level duegon to get the gear and break those down.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Is it?

Or is this your XI experience dictating what xivs jobs should be like.

I didn't play Xi, so I never played a ff game with ranger as a job. All I know is archer, which, surprise, is a dps job.

Maybe we should let the game act like every other ff title, and be it's own thing with similarities, instead of saying "well, in the other mmo it was this way, so it has to be this way".

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Actually FFXIV was my first MMO, I started to play FFXI a bit like last year and still pretty new to that game, also I didn't say anything about FFXI nor saying" FFXIV should be FFXI" so you can stop putting words in my mouth, thank you. Rude as well

FFXI you auto-attack, skillchains , perform actions with the menu list or macros , FFXIV you press buttons to perform actions

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Why can't we have a melee healer?

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Wait, what? How would a melee healer even work? Like more DPS focused with melee attacks, but still heals from the distance?

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

You don't even have to farm ex for dysnthing...? You just buy cheap vendor gear or go unsynch in a low level duegon to get the gear and break those down.

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Sorry, but, it doesn't work like that between e.g. ilvl 160-255.

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Originally Posted by Anne-

Wait, what? How would a melee healer even work? Like more DPS focused with melee attacks, but still heals from the distance?

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It would probably work a bit like it works/worked in Rift. Damage you do, portion of it is delivered as healing to ppl nearby. Or, ppl who hit same target as you get healed - so it'd work only when they fight what you fight. It works fine in Rift (where it's the only method of healing...). IDK if such'd mesh well here tho ...

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Having a support role won't break the game but expand on jobs that already exists in the game and other jobs to come into FFXIV in the future. This game is all Balance all jobs but the problem here is that you end up with all the joba feeling the same and while there are range jobs and melee jobs like as you said, do they really do anything else? Why can't we have a melee healer? Why can't we have Red mage have acess to vecure II or ver-regen? They are red mages and should have access to some of white mages more healing kit. Why can't Bard have it's support skills songs back? Bard is known to be a support job rather than DPS , that is Ranger.

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Support roles in general are the least played/least liked kind of classes. They're jacks of many trades but masters of none. People (I believe) usually prefer something that excels in its given role instead of something that does a bit of everything but for balance reasons doesn't do anything very well.

Well...when they design content or job mechanics that require more than one brain cell to execute you get 15 different threads complaining that it's too hard. Or it sucks.

Remember Steps of Faith? On release it was a challenge but the community threw a hissy fit about it and they dumbed it down so Lazy Noskill could cost through no problem. Or for a more recent example Dark Knight. TBN unlike the other short CD tank skills has an added component to its use. But because it's not a push and forget defensive CD its derided and said to be a bad skill.

It's not SE at fault here. They're listening to feedback that quite loudly comes from subpar entitled whiny fans that want everything easy.

Ilevel 160-255 gear? I assume that is 60 gear,you can use centrio seals in ishgard inn and dysnth the gear there.

Best way to get Centrio seals is hunts, b rank hunts, blue mage masked carnival. It's best to use tinkering calms and HQ bacon broth
Once you get that up, you can get the gear in idyshire and use poetics to buy the gear from there and dysnth them, get them higher, and once they are high enough, make them agumented shire gear and continue from there.

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Originally Posted by AniKai

Sorry, but, it doesn't work like that between e.g. ilvl 160-255.

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Replyed above

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Originally Posted by AniKai

Support roles in general are the least played/least liked kind of classes. They're jacks of many trades but masters of none. People (I believe) usually prefer something that excels in its given role instead of something that does a bit of everything but for balance reasons doesn't do anything very well.

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Support was the least played, least liked? I what about Bard? What about AST? Those where Support jobs? What about Dancer?

FFXIV needs a Support or Hybrid category

Open World is fine as is,people need to do crafter things in the open world and as a crafter u cant fight back if u aggro them + its time consuming sitting to kill enemies then switch back to crafter to do what you need to do.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Support was the least played, least liked? I what about Bard? What about AST? Those where Support jobs? What about Dancer?

FFXIV needs a Support or Hybrid category

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It depends on how the class feels. DNC doesn't *feel* like support, even if it is - to some extent - and because it doesn't *feel* like a class that exists just to carry the rest of the group it's a-ok. And whenever AST was "support job" - it wasn't that in launch of AST, and it's not that today either. In a sense if AST is support job, then WHM is a support job too...

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Originally Posted by AniKai

It depends on how the class feels. DNC doesn't *feel* like support, even if it is - to some extent - and because it doesn't *feel* like a class that exists just to carry the rest of the group it's a-ok. And whenever AST was "support job" - it wasn't that in launch of AST, and it's not that today either. In a sense if AST is support job, then WHM is a support job too...

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Dancer is a Support job, that's why they have the low DPS becuase they bring in support

Yoshi P even said , it's a heavy support Job.

Your not making any sense...

WHM is a Pure healing job, it makes sense that WHM has the best overall raw healing than the other two healers , White mage isnt a support job.


AST is was Healer/Support job, but it doesn't heal as well as a White mage and it shouldn't becuase it would take white mages spot, but it used to bring in Buffs for the party.

Like if FFXIV had a Support role , these jobs would make sense not be as powerful as pure roles like Black mage or samurai

Tank/ healer/ DPS/ Support

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Tank/ healer/ DPS/ Support

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The problem with that is if say, you make ast support, but it still has heals. People will find a way to make ast heals be good enough if the support is good enough to make dps higher to the point a pure healer isn't needed. It's why whm hasn't been meta for the past 3 years. Same with NIN, drg, and brd. All meta because the support they brought was better than pure damage classes.

Hence support either being completely broken or completely worthless.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem with that is if say, you make ast support, but it still has heals. People will find a way to make ast heals be good enough if the support is good enough to make dps higher to the point a pure healer isn't needed. It's why whm hasn't been meta for the past 3 years. Same with NIN, drg, and brd. All meta because the support they brought was better than pure damage classes.

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There is always going to be a META, no matter what But that shouldn't stop people from playing the jobs they enjoy playing. I was playing WHM, RDM and NIN in Stormblood because I don't care for the meta, I played it becuase I enjoyed it.

Also I wanted to add is that stormblood White mage didn't have MP issues but AST did , I still enjoyed AST and White mage for what they was.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Jobs are not the same. They are similar because they have to be able to perform the same roles.

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I find it pretty funny when people utterly fail to realise that jobs in the same role need to have some basic things in common for the sake of practicality.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Imagine this being a thing and you have to go from X to Y for a quest without flying as a newbie.
This would be ridiculously annoying like it is in GW2.

I am better with being strongest on earth warrior of light, the killer of gods and dragons, who fought the apocalypse himself, than a weak noodle who will die from tree attacking him.
Can you even imagine how would that look? You could fight and defeat incredibly strong entities who are able to change reality and destroy it, yet you get killed by a bunch of rabbits or mushrooms.
That would be double ridiculous.

NO, lets write it down again.
You are playing a demi-god hercules-like warrior of light, the storngest "humanoid" in the universe who fought and defeated the world destroyer, Gods, dragons and entities who are able to change the physics and manipulate space and do anything they want, aaand you get killed by a squirell or turtle.
That would be the lamest thing i have ever seen.

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I just have to say thank you. You helped me finally put my finger on why it has been so hard to see eye to eye with some that don't want any challenge. Some love playing Superman beating up on the equivalent of everyday crooks nearly 24/7, in a world where kryptonite is next to non-existent, others prefer being Batman that have to use a number of tools to overcome their normal day to day foes on a regular basis, and everything under the sun and then some to overcome those above the norm.

Guess that is why there is so much backlash any time a a suggestion to add a little bit more kryptonite (aka challenge) to the world is typically met with so much backlash.

We don't want the WoL dying to every silly little thing, we just want a few more things equivalent to their version of kryptonite.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

I just have to say thank you. You helped me finally put my finger on why it has been so hard to see eye to eye with some that don't want any challenge. Some love playing Superman beating up on the equivalent of everyday crooks nearly 24/7, in a world where kryptonite is next to non-existent, others prefer being Batman that have to use a number of tools to overcome their normal day to day foes on a regular basis, and everything under the sun and then some to overcome those above the norm.

Guess that is why there is so much backlash any time a a suggestion to add a little bit more kryptonite (aka challenge) to the world is typically met with so much backlash.

We don't want the WoL dying to every silly little thing, we just want a few more things equivalent to their version of kryptonite.

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I mean we ready die to a ranks, s ranks ( sometimes B ranks) and enemies in FATES, what's so different what I'm proposing?

Just an area where hard side quests are at and dangerous high level enemies are at away from casuals areas

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I mean we ready die to a ranks, s ranks ( sometimes B ranks) and enemies in FATES, what's so different what I'm proposing?

Just an area where hard side quests are at and dangerous high level enemies are at away from casuals areas

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You might have misunderstood, I'm all for some more hard stuff somewhere. I think the game could use a lil more challenge.

The post I quoted, finally got a piece of the puzzle as to why so many seem so opposed to any suggestions of a little more challenge to be implemented into the game to fall into place. They don't want any form of the Warrior of Light's Kryptonite to exist in the game, or if they do they want it locked away in the extremely hard tiers of savage and ultimate where they might never actually touch or encounter it for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I mean we ready die to a ranks, s ranks ( sometimes B ranks) and enemies in FATES, what's so different what I'm proposing?

Just an area where hard side quests are at and dangerous high level enemies are at away from casuals areas

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I guess because once you get over their level, you basically ignore them. Once you're 11 level over, the zone might not have any mob in them and you couldn't tell, and the slight problem with instantiated zones like Eureka/Diadem is they feel very secluded.. almost artificial. I would like some zone that are challenging to navigate be part of the actual overworld

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I find it pretty funny when people utterly fail to realise that jobs in the same role need to have some basic things in common for the sake of practicality.

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You end up with the same, same, same, same and get a homogenized jobs, oh like with they say Square Enix said about healers in this expansion right?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Really? You mean to tell me it's not just sch that has aetherflow heals, single target shield spread, and a healer pet with its own abilities? You also mean to tell me that all this time I could have been using ast cards and healer stances on my sch? Also whm's lily mechanic, presence of mind and thin air?

Well damn, I've been playing sch wrong! Thanks for informing me that all the healers are now the same due to homogenisation!

:rolleyes:

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( i reached my posts for today so im just editing this post)

Yes other than aetherflow and cards, and lillies, they are exactly the same how Square intended, all these jobs are very similar with a little flare. SCH was always the job with the best DPS except ...gasp they wanted it to be like The other HEALERS! it's like they wanted to..homogenized them

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

I am against support jobs entirely. Support/buffing jobs always become meta by default because they support everyone and increase dps. I would rather all jobs have a support skill instead of an entire role. Remember, DNG/NIN/BRD/AST/SCH has been meta for a really long time because of their abilities. Every time they have a support job it becomes non-optimal to use anything else no matter how much fun you have on your favorite job, you get exiled from groups because meta.

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Ohh there is ALWAYS going to be a Meta in this game, its's something you can't avoid whether you like it or not. There is going to be people who will accept you and some that are not, you just need to find those people who will. I seen an White mage who did UCOB with a party and did just fine, WHM wasn't the meta in Stormblood, didn't stop that player from completing it. If you are against the buffing/ supporting jobs in FFXIV, its not going anywhere and not stopping anytime soon. thats why i think its should be in its own category. like a Support/ DPS can support but not do as much damage as a Pure DPS like Black mage for example

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

You end up with the same, same, same, same and get a homogenized jobs, oh like with they say Square Enix said about healers in this expansion right?

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Really? You mean to tell me it's not just sch that has aetherflow heals, single target shield spread, and a healer pet with its own abilities? You also mean to tell me that all this time I could have been using ast cards and healer stances on my sch? Also whm's lily mechanic, presence of mind and thin air?

Well damn, I've been playing sch wrong! Thanks for informing me that all the healers are now the same due to homogenisation!

:rolleyes:

I am against support jobs entirely. Support/buffing jobs always become meta by default because they support everyone and increase dps. I would rather all jobs have a support skill instead of an entire role. Remember, DNG/NIN/BRD/AST/SCH has been meta for a really long time because of their abilities. Every time they have a support job it becomes non-optimal to use anything else no matter how much fun you have on your favorite job, you get exiled from groups because meta.