SAM got Instant Cast Tsubame and Hagakure is back Meikyo cd reduced to 55 + Shoha!!!

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...edf1edb73ed77e

Samurai

Action Adjustment

Meikyo Shisui Recast time reduced from 60 to 55 seconds.

Meditate Effect duration increased from 30 to 45 seconds.

Tsubame-gaeshi Cast time has been made instant.

Kaeshi: Higanbana Cast time has been made instant.

Kaeshi: Goken Cast time has been made instant.

Kaeshi: Setsugekka Cast time has been made instant.

Shoha Potency has been changed from 50/100/200/300/500 to 100/300/400/450/500.


New actions have been added.

Samurai

Level Action

68 Hagakure

I don't understand why they added hagakure back. That was a terrible ability in SB's rotation and the new replacement, while a bit boring, flowed a hell of a lot better with the class as a whole. So what does adding it back do other than massively buff kenki output and appease players who liked it while making the class much harder to play in the process off of merely existing? It's a bizarre choice.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I don't understand why they added hagakure back. That was a terrible ability in SB's rotation and the new replacement, while a bit boring, flowed a hell of a lot better with the class as a whole. So what does adding it back do other than massively buff kenki output and appease players who liked it while making the class much harder to play in the process off of merely existing? It's a bizarre choice.

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Let's hope it was changed to only remove sen instead of giving 20 kenki per sen removed.

Or it shares a recast time with Ikishoten. That way you can ignore it entirely if you don't specifically need to remove sen for a particular reason.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Let's hope it was changed to only remove sen instead of giving 20 kenki per sen removed.

Or it shares a recast time with Ikishoten. That way you can ignore it entirely if you don't specifically need to remove sen for a particular reason.

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Unfortunately there's no information on any of the 2 abilities re-added (the other being energy drain), so we can but speculate based on what has already existed.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I don't understand why they added hagakure back. That was a terrible ability in SB's rotation and the new replacement, while a bit boring, flowed a hell of a lot better with the class as a whole. So what does adding it back do other than massively buff kenki output and appease players who liked it while making the class much harder to play in the process off of merely existing? It's a bizarre choice.

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The main reason is that it gives SAM a way to reset their Sen, which was a big QoL deal.

Its awkward in dungeons with 2 sen
No jinpu or shifu up

Hagakura returning is fine
I wish it was at 60 though not 68

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I don't understand why they added hagakure back. That was a terrible ability in SB's rotation and the new replacement, while a bit boring, flowed a hell of a lot better with the class as a whole. So what does adding it back do other than massively buff kenki output and appease players who liked it while making the class much harder to play in the process off of merely existing? It's a bizarre choice.

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I don't understand this reasoning. It existing just raises Samurai ceiling/options. If you only make use of it a little bit, that is still a gain from it existing. Just because someone else has a better time optimizing it doesn't change that you both are getting a benefit. It's only a gain. It's good that it came back.

Samurai was simply buffed from these changes which is good as they were a bit behind when considering their lack of utility.

I missed hagakure a lot so I'm glad it's back.
But the Shoha-buff is just meh with no change at the max-output. If you only buff the steps below why even bother?

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I don't understand why they added hagakure back. That was a terrible ability in SB's rotation and the new replacement, while a bit boring, flowed a hell of a lot better with the class as a whole. So what does adding it back do other than massively buff kenki output and appease players who liked it while making the class much harder to play in the process off of merely existing? It's a bizarre choice.

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Hagakure flows much better than Ikkeshoten because it allows you to manipulate your sen. Making the class WAY more flexible rotation-wise.
With no way to manipulate your sen, you have to take a 5-6 GCD penalty if you miaslign your Higanbana refreshes.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

I missed hagakure a lot so I'm glad it's back.
But the Shoha-buff is just meh with no change at the max-output. If you only buff the steps below why even bother?

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I heard some people were able to find small windows to get just the first tick of meditation into their rotation. These changes seem to verify that the developers want Samurai players to find a way to sneak it in optimally. Before the benefit was only 50 potency and one charge of kenki, now that is buffed to 100 potency and one charge of kenki.

It's not a crazy buff, but it makes successfully finding windows for it more rewarding at least. 50 extra potency before was very little for the effort. I do still hope it's reworked to be better and less tedious though. Maybe making meditation instantly give you 2 charges or something?

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Originally Posted by Yandere-chan

I heard some people were able to find small windows to get just the first tick of meditation into their rotation. These changes seem to verify that the developers want Samurai players to find a way to sneak it in optimally. Before the benefit was only 50 potency and one charge of kenki, now that is buffed to 100 potency and one charge of kenki.

It's not a crazy buff, but it makes successfully finding windows for it more rewarding at least. 50 extra potency before was very little for the effort. I do still hope it's reworked to be better and less tedious though. Maybe making meditation instantly give you 2 charges or something?

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They should have made Shoha start at 250 potency just to at least give it a sensible damage scaling ramp. Going from 100 potency to 300 potency and then increasing by 50 potency per tick is just illogical.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

They should have made Shoha start at 250 potency just to at least give it a sensible damage scaling ramp. Going from 100 potency to 300 potency and then increasing by 50 potency per tick is just illogical.

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I feel like it's like that to put most of the bang at the front to clue the player in to try to fit it into small windows. They still must feel that they want to make the ceiling 500 potency for long transition moments where you have excess time to max it out. So, I get the idea behind it. I do still feel like the skill is lacking though. I'd be all for it having 250 potency on the first tick and maxing out at something higher. Designing it so that it can be somewhat useful in content without overtly long transitions would just seem smarter and more satisfying. Overall though, it's still technically a buff from how it was before. So it's at least a step in the right direction.

According to datamines on The Balance discord Haga will only be restoring 5 kenki per sen? Not a DPS gain to use it on CD if this is the case.

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Originally Posted by Jimsvaliant

According to datamines on The Balance discord Haga will only be restoring 5 kenki per sen? Not a DPS gain to use it on CD if this is the case.

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Weird to make it 5 and not 0. At 5 it's not worth using except to get rid of unneeded sen.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Weird to make it 5 and not 0. At 5 it's not worth using except to get rid of unneeded sen.

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I suppose something is better than nothing. They may have done this to avoid the Hagakure Shinten spam rotation.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Weird to make it 5 and not 0. At 5 it's not worth using except to get rid of unneeded sen.

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So it seems like it will purely be a QoL thing then. This can be nice if things don't quite go according to plan during add clearing or long phase transition. There have been several times where she had 2 / 3 sen just as the last add died before a boss. Now she can just convert it into 10 extra kenki and have a cleaner start. Kind of wish it was a level 60 skill though. It seems silly to make a QoL skill so far down the skill path.

I don't know how this will affect Sam's overall DPS, but I don't think it'll help them hit where they should be. Drg and Mnk (especially now) will probably be first choices for melee dps.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I don't know how this will affect Sam's overall DPS, but I don't think it'll help them hit where they should be. Drg and Mnk (especially now) will probably be first choices for melee dps.

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Samurai job guide was just updated and it confirms Hagakure nerf which means no Shinten rotation. SAM dps will certainly be lower than MNK now and without utility it's a hard sell in any situation. *sigh*

Hagakure being 5 kenki/sen means samurai gained zero damage. Shoha is still <1% of your damage and rest is QoL. I hope everyone enjoys being back in no Samurai PF meme land because that is where we are headed, along with ninja.

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Hagakure is back.

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Great!

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Hagakure only gives 5/10/15 Kenki instead of 20/40/60.

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Never mind.

I honestly wasn't expecting Hagakure to return as anything more then a means of managing Sen to ensure you can use the right iaijutsu for the situation so I'm satisfied with it.

none of those changes will make samurai competitive again. The difference between monk and dragoon dps is too high while they bring some minor buffs and a a better synergy with other classes. With monk changes theres is no point bring a sam as it stands and these changes wont make any difference. At best you see a 1-2% dps change big f%king deal.

I like the way Hagakure made a comeback as well. I think ShB samurai flows better than the SB samurai and now we have a way to manage sen without changing that flow. Granted, the skill ceiling is lower the way it is now, but even so, it feels better to play to me. I'm not talking about the damage, but the way the class feels to play. Damage can be increased in other ways than adding the old hagakure.

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Originally Posted by RidiculouslyComplicated

Hagakure being 5 kenki/sen means samurai gained zero damage. Shoha is still <1% of your damage and rest is QoL. I hope everyone enjoys being back in no Samurai PF meme land because that is where we are headed, along with ninja.

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Oh good, they're not bringing back Hagakure, it's now just a QoL thing to dump unwanted sen. Fantastic, SAM will continue to be accessible to more players and have superior flow.

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Originally Posted by steroids

none of those changes will make samurai competitive again. The difference between monk and dragoon dps is too high while they bring some minor buffs and a a better synergy with other classes. With monk changes theres is no point bring a sam as it stands and these changes wont make any difference.

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I'm honestly surprised Dragoon and Monk weren't brought in line. And if you're complaining about SAM, you should move your attention to a vastly worse off selfish DPS, Machinist, which effectively has no purpose right now because it's flat out beaten by so many supporty DPS classes that it may as well not exist.

We didn't lose anything by getting a 5 sec CD to remove each sen for 5 kenki. It's just a QoL buff.

Like if you already have Gekko and Kasha up before a dungeon boss but no Jinpu/Shifu and Kenki to spare..

But knowing how some people play, I'm sure they will complain about it because they will be popping that button instead of Midare lol..

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Oh good, they're not bringing back Hagakure, it's now just a QoL thing to dump unwanted sen. Fantastic, SAM will continue to be accessible to more players and have superior flow.



I'm honestly surprised Dragoon and Monk weren't brought in line. And if you're complaining about SAM, you should move your attention to a vastly worse off selfish DPS, Machinist, which effectively has no purpose right now because it's flat out beaten by so many supporty DPS classes that it may as well not exist.

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Nerfed Hagakure actually makes the class flow even better. It's just not the Shinten rotation that it used to be.

I mean it's essentially the same problem right? SAMs will be worried about savage spots because they're eclipsed by Dragoons and Monks who have better rDPS and bring utility. We're not competing with MCHs here. I'm glad that SAMs are accessible but the selfish melee DPS does the worst DPS, barring NIN of course.

sure but the point isn't about machs , there is no point bring a sam either though. As it stands in ffxiv logs there is no top team in extreme that has a sam in it - correction just one , while many have ninjas and they continue to do so cause 50 potency buff (gut slash) on a spammable ability is something overall . This patch a joke. Sam needed to be on par with black mage and black mage needed to be toned down. monk dragoon are fine. dancers ninjas need more buffs and machs some utility

Yeah.. Hagakure return is just a QoL skills that is useful to reset us but all that change just proves that the dev in charge of the job have no effin clue or doesn't care at all about SAM. Giving us the shambling corpse of Hagakure isn't going to help us in anything when we need a large damage buff..

So they buff Monk when they were already ahead of Samurai. Why even bring a SAM at this point? They aren't even doing the most anymore. SE balancing at it's finest.

Giving Hagakure back was a big mistake, but at least it is not forced on us.

This was a middle of the road change for sam. For the people who wanted it for Sen control. They had a good point, so they got it back. At the same time for us who did not want it. It did not become a must use.

This was perfect move to make both sides happy.



On the other class being stronger comments. I don't really care, as I love sam play style. Besides our level 80 skill. I'm happy with the changes.

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Originally Posted by Jimsvaliant

Nerfed Hagakure actually makes the class flow even better. It's just not the Shinten rotation that it used to be.

I mean it's essentially the same problem right? SAMs will be worried about savage spots because they're eclipsed by Dragoons and Monks who have better rDPS and bring utility. We're not competing with MCHs here. I'm glad that SAMs are accessible but the selfish melee DPS does the worst DPS, barring NIN of course.

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As far as I am aware, SAM does more raw DPS than MCH, even when put into fights with heavy movement. And you're primarily competing for a selfish DPS spot that happens to also compete with other DPS directly. None of the selfish DPS should ever be outcompeted by support DPS, that much is a given. MCH just happens to be the worst of the selfish DPS (as it should be) but that puts it under other DPS that aren't selfish (which is bad).

SAM is the easiest melee to play by far, has zero positional requirements, is pretty mobile, has the simplest rotation and, not knowing Savage right now, puts out easily enough DPS to beat enrage timers. For the vast majority of players, SAM will be better than NIN or MNK simply because its so easy to get high performance out of SAM, and not so easy (and more fight dependant) to do the same for MNK and especially NIN.

MNKs miss a lot of positionals because of the boss turning suddenly to target something, some mechanic being in a place it shouldnt be, RNG hating your favorite spot with telegraphs and so on. SAM doesnt care, just runs his rotation. MNK gets rooted, stunned, CC'd or cut off from the fight and loses GL or stance? Well too bad, you are now the worst DPS in the raid for 20 seconds+, whereas SAM doesnt care.

People that believe the meta applies to them are in an easy 98% of cases deluding themselves. The obsession of the NA community with theoretical "best of class" metas does simply not apply to the vast vast majority of players.

I am certain that given same player skill and same gear, SAM outperforms MNK and NIN after the patch just because its so easy, and most DPS players not mechanically good.

but Sams have positonals too

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

but Sams have positonals too

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Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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Eh um hm <.<

Check your tooltips, too. You need to get two combo finishers in order to get the most kenki out of them. More kenki means more shinten. So technically that qualifies as a positional to increase damage. Then again, it's more impactful on the long run rather then immediately, so in comparison to other classes you don't see it immediately. Wasn't rebuking any of your other points btw, just pointing out that positionals exist on SAM too.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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I mean if you don't want to generate Kenki then I guess

Ok, you talk about the +5 kenki every 9+ GCDs, I get it. Sorry I wasnt considering that as a positional requirement. It is a miniscule DPS boost if you move around once every 9 GCDs, that is correct. What I meant was stuff like NIN TA not even doing its primary function, or MNKs massive potency losses on every GCD if you are not in the correct spot.

But yes, technically Samurai would have to do a little sidestep every 20 seconds. Assuming a GCD of 2.4 roughly, uninterrupted, doing that sidestep nets you the 25 extra kenki every 132 seconds if my math is correct (including Iaijutsu), or lets say between 120 and 140 seconds. (you will always be in a position to hit ONE of your positionals, thats why I only calculate the other that would require you to move). Titania EX has about 7 minutes actual fight time, minus every second you need to move. So you build an entire 3, in a REALLY slow DPS group hitting the enrage maybe a 4th Shinten over the entire fight, assuming you never overflow, mismanage or step wrong, that means a total of 960 potency. Also called "less than Shoha nets you in that fight", a skill widely panned as useless.

I dont really see that as a positional playstyle. sorry. Especially since Kenki generation is also not gatekeeping any opener or general rotation issues of the more important skills.

I would presume that having the SAM stay in one position is actually more beneficial due to clarity of movement, positions and raid placement over 3 more Shintens per clear.

Losing a positional on SAM is actually the highest DPS loss of any melee class other than trick attack

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/samurai/

Check Kasha and Gekko.
It only applies from lvl 52 on though, and if we take Shinten as a dump for that extra Kenki it's 64 potency. Before lvl 62 that kenki will mostly be used for Kaiten before Midare Setsugekka, which makes the positional worth 100 potency.
For most monk skills the difference is just 20 potency. Although monks use the corresponding skills more frequently than samurai, the samurai is punished much more for missing it. The exception being bootshine, which is a guaranteed crit from the rear.
Ninja has 3 positionals, 2 have a potency difference of 60, the thrid is way more significant but has a 60s cooldown.
Dragoon also has 3, each with a difference of 40 potency.

So samurai has to deal with positionals just like the other classes do. Actually, i thought the impact for a samurai missing his positional was much less severe than it is for other classes, but looking at the numbers, that isn't the case.

Also, having True North would make absolutely no sense otherwise.