MSQ roulette and AFK

I don’t like MSQ roulette to but since it gives a fair amount of exp I do. With that I need to respect the others 7 players in the party. And stay AFK and trying to get the exp is unacceptably. And the number of ppl doing that is getting bigger, so I hope SE start to think in some punishment to prevent those players to do that.

They could also fix the dungeons instead of encourage people to be there only for the overinflated rewards.

Braindead content + massive reward = people afk. It's a simple equation, and putting in more and more stopgaps isn't going to fix the underlying problem of the content being garbage on repeat.

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Originally Posted by Felien

I don’t like MSQ roulette to but since it gives a fair amount of exp I do. With that I need to respect the others 7 players in the party. And stay AFK and trying to get the exp is unacceptably. And the number of ppl doing that is getting bigger, so I hope SE start to think in some punishment to prevent those players to do that.

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Been noticing more AFKs too. Kicking them as well. if I see someone standing near ultima autoattacking they get a kick vote before lahabrea.

I kick everyone I catch not participating these days and I think frustration is mounting with this kind of behavior as once you actually put the vote dismiss forward it /almost always/ goes through. If you sign up for MSQ roulette you know what you were signing up for. Don't make it more miserable for everyone else by being a leech.

Kick them then. I've had a few recently when I've queued in as healer or tank, and yeah sure the content can be cleared with only one of these but if my co role (healer/tank) is afk or not participating I initiate vote kick (and it almost always goes through). Not participating in the content you've queued up for is gameplay disruption at the end of the day

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I'm expecting it to become a solo dungeon in the future now that trusts are a thing. If the spaghetti code allows it, that is.

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It would be an ideal candidate for becoming a trust dungeon. There are only the 2 dungeons and it would then allow for new players to take their time without worrying about other players at all. Tidying up the old content should be a priority in the down time when dev's aren't working on new content I would think, at least that's how most companies handle their backlog of work.

The only time I afk is during cutscenes, but I make sure I'm back before they end. I guess I never really understood why people afk indefinitely. I mean, I get not wanting to put the effort in, but it's more beneficial to help the dungeon go faster by staying active.

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Originally Posted by Felien

I don’t like MSQ roulette to but since it gives a fair amount of exp I do. With that I need to respect the others 7 players in the party. And stay AFK and trying to get the exp is unacceptably. And the number of ppl doing that is getting bigger, so I hope SE start to think in some punishment to prevent those players to do that.

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If people go AFK in the dungeon, then you have a perfectly good reason to votekick them.

During the event for the moogle tomes I actually found myself falling asleep during the cut scenes and waking up halfway through a battle. It wasn't intentional and I never actually got kicked but it happened. Now the event is over I've stopped doing the daily MSQ roulette just to take a break from them as I spammed them so much during the event.

Saying that, whilst I was spamming them, I did notice there were a few afkers during some of them. Mostly they'd come back during the dungeon at some point and it made me wonder if like me, they were falling asleep to the cut scenes! In future runs, I'll be making sure I have my switch readily by me so I can play on that during the cut scenes and stop myself from falling asleep!

I think there's something weird with some of the cutscenes since ShB (or maybe earlier). I have an SSD and used to reliably load either first or tied for first, but since ShB, certain cutscenes seem to always result in the person who triggered them coming out of them 20 seconds or more before anyone else. The most obvious example of this is the cutscene immediately prior to fighting Gaius on the elevator. Additionally, the cutscene immediately prior to the fight for Lahabrea never finishes for me with everyone else (I usually come out of it about the time the arena goes white), even though on any other cutscenes other than the two I specified I am still the first or tied for first.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

I think there's something weird with some of the cutscenes since ShB (or maybe earlier). I have an SSD and used to reliably load either first or tied for first, but since ShB, certain cutscenes seem to always result in the person who triggered them coming out of them 20 seconds or more before anyone else. The most obvious example of this is the cutscene immediately prior to fighting Gaius on the elevator.

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That's a language thing. The Japanese localization finishes before the English one, for example. At least, that's what I've heard.

I personally feel the dungeons shouldn't have a i130 sync. It makes them boring and ruins any atmosphere or experience new players might have. All this dramatic build up and the boss gets face rolled in 30 seconds. Change the sync to i70. Which would be the best non capped gear available at the time of ARR's release. Maybe if they had some sort of challenge again, people would find them more engaging to do and not afk.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

That's a language thing. The Japanese localization finishes before the English one, for example. At least, that's what I've heard.

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I hadn't considered that since it seems they won't let you change the pace at which the text auto-advances, but I'll keep that in mind and test it out when I feel like leveling another job.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I personally feel the dungeons shouldn't have a i130 sync. It makes them boring and ruins any atmosphere or experience new players might have. All this dramatic build up and the boss gets face rolled in 30 seconds. Change the sync to i70. Which would be the best non capped gear available at the time of ARR's release. Maybe if they had some sort of challenge again, people would find them more engaging to do and not afk.

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If the dungeons are even remotely difficult or have any chance of failure, I'd just not run them again. The XP reward would have to be utterly absurd for me to want to risk wiping in ancient content I've done dozens of times while playing a gimpy character that hits like a wet noodle and has -5 abilities.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

I hadn't considered that since it seems they won't let you change the pace at which the text auto-advances, but I'll keep that in mind and test it out when I feel like leveling another job.



If the dungeons are even remotely difficult or have any chance of failure, I'd just not run them again. The XP reward would have to be utterly absurd for me to want to risk wiping in ancient content I've done dozens of times while playing a gimpy character that hits like a wet noodle and has -5 abilities.

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13 million at level 79 IS absurd.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

13 million at level 79 IS absurd.

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That's around the amount you get from doing a full run of the 79 dungeon, except that takes less time.

That said, if you actually need the tomestones the MSQ roulette might be better still.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

That's around the amount you get from doing a full run of the 79 dungeon, except that takes less time.

That said, if you actually need the tomestones the MSQ roulette might be better still.

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Not even close. 13 million is 2 runs of the 79 dungeon.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Not even close. 13 million is 2 runs of the 79 dungeon.

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Or an entire map's worth of sidequests at that level!

There are probably lots of people unintentionally afking because the cut scenes are so insanely long that they have fallen asleep or gotten embroiled in something else and forget to check back with the game.

The few times I have run this roulette since the change and have gotten unlucky by getting the praetorium have been frustrating because I do not have multiple monitors, so if I want to do something else I have to click away from the game, and then I don’t know when there is a break in the movie and have to keep checking and checking. I wished I could set it so it would play a sound at the end of a cut scene when the game is not the active window. Potentially something like that to notify people that there’s a break in the cut scenes when they are clicked away would help. Or alternatively just make these dungeons solo.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

There are probably lots of people unintentionally afking because the cut scenes are so insanely long that they have fallen asleep or gotten embroiled in something else and forget to check back with the game.

The few times I have run this roulette since the change and have gotten unlucky by getting the praetorium have been frustrating because I do not have multiple monitors, so if I want to do something else I have to click away from the game, and then I don’t know when there is a break in the movie and have to keep checking and checking. I wished I could set it so it would play a sound at the end of a cut scene when the game is not the active window. Potentially something like that to notify people that there’s a break in the cut scenes when they are clicked away would help. Or alternatively just make these dungeons solo.

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You fear about the possibility to go AFK/getting AFK players because of the lack of a multi-monitor setup?? As if this is normal... Haha, oh my!

Anyways, since...at very least Windows8 you can mouse-over a window and get a real-time preview. When I wait for a duty and have nothing else to do ingame (or don't want to do anything else) then I put up a Youtube video and place the mouse cursor over the FFXIV icon in the taskbar. So I have a PIP and can easily check what's going on ingame. That is the plus side of it going window mode when Alt+Tabbing out of the game because fullscreen Direct3D programs don't have a preview or just the last frame in the cache displayed..

Yes, People being afk in a duty can be annoying, but remember to give some people a little time, after all, RL happens (Had to answer phone or door, kids need something, bio break, etc.). Now as a general rule I give afk's about 5mins. After that I assume they are either not coming back or as does happen are LD and their character hasn't gotten booted yet (some of those do take awhile before it shows someone as offline). To those that do go AFK, please at least type something into party chat even a simple "AFK, BRB" is usually enough to satisfy "most" of us, just try to be quick about it.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

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Don't you guys have phones!?!?

Nah seriously, if it's a cutscene I'll mess about on my phone or I'll be listening to some music/podcast, and this is on ps4 where we don't have the luxury of having multiple windows open like on PC. There is lots to do while waiting just have to find something.

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Originally Posted by NyteKitsune

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MSQ scenes are a good few minutes, there is plenty of time to do irl stuff and come back but not moving after several scenes, they getting the boot.

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Originally Posted by NyteKitsune

Yes, People being afk in a duty can be annoying, but remember to give some people a little time, after all, RL happens (Had to answer phone or door, kids need something, bio break, etc.). Now as a general rule I give afk's about 5mins. After that I assume they are either not coming back or as does happen are LD and their character hasn't gotten booted yet (some of those do take awhile before it shows someone as offline). To those that do go AFK, please at least type something into party chat even a simple "AFK, BRB" is usually enough to satisfy "most" of us, just try to be quick about it.

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Had someone the other day who not only didn't attack any mobs up to the Magitek Armor, they actively stopped following the party at that point and only zoned into Nero when someone called them out for it in chat. Where they proceeded to, again, sit on their hands and not help. I personally don't care if someone is afk for a boss or two. I get this roulette is boring and life happens. However if they don't help at all and are trying to leech, they get the boot.

There's also something to be said about /telling/ people when you need to go AFK in these instances. Most of the time people are generally cool if you tell them you need to AFK for ten minutes because something came up. They just want to be told first and not made to feel like they're carrying you through to the end.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Praetorium, on the other hand, might as well be a movie. You literally spend 35 minutes listening to Gaius, Nero and Lahabrea's monologues and barely 10 (if even) actually fighting.

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In our LS we call doing the MSQ Roulette "going to the cinema."

Yaa afk people can be pretty annoying tho I have never really seen peope like that during msq-roulette.
Important is to tell the other in group atleast "brb" or "one sec" .
But remember guys, parents exist and apparently they always call you during unexpected times and get impatient.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

13 million at level 79 IS absurd.

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It really isn't. You can't just look at the raw number. You also have to look at the time spent. 55% of a level for 45 minutes is only about as good as a slow Heaven on High group if you were to spam Heaven on High for the same duration. The only real advantage to MSQ roulette is that there's no deep dungeon available at the moment for levels 71-80, so it scales and HoH doesn't. It's also honestly not much better than running dungeons. I really only run it to take a break from other content.

People AFK because the MSQ content encourages it.

10 minute cutscene, 45 second fight, 5 steps forward, repeat until dead.

Not exactly riveting gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Felien

I don’t like MSQ roulette to but since it gives a fair amount of exp I do. With that I need to respect the others 7 players in the party. And stay AFK and trying to get the exp is unacceptably. And the number of ppl doing that is getting bigger, so I hope SE start to think in some punishment to prevent those players to do that.

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It's not like people haven't been saying this will happen. Make a bad change, the players will find a way to deal with the bad change.
Instead of punishing people for dealing with a horrible change, reverse the horrible change. This was never a problem when the cutscenes could be skipped.

"But teh new plaeyrses!" There's been plenty of suggestions that would favor the new players without hindering or impacting people who have already passed that point of the MSQ.
"No xpeez or rewardses then!" MSQ roulette had XP and rewards before the asinine change. Put them back to that level.

But we've been round and round this merry-go-round since Jan/Feb of 2018 when they put this change in.


TLDR: Don't punish people for finding a way around a bad change. Fix the problem and people won't feel inclined to find a way around the problem.

Easy way to fix this would be make the encounters a bit harder, something similiar to raids. Atleast this way, people will have to participate.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The only time I afk is during cutscenes, but I make sure I'm back before they end. I guess I never really understood why people afk indefinitely. I mean, I get not wanting to put the effort in, but it's more beneficial to help the dungeon go faster by staying active.

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Yeah, sadly I've had several runs lately where I complain about the afk-er(s) and try to kick, and I tend to get a couple people that always say something stupid like "It's only MS roulette, no big deal" and things like that...and then I remind them if we were all so selfish as the afk leeches, we'd never get to the end and the instance would time out with no rewards. So, yes, it is a big deal.

I'm going to alter an old saying from a game I used to play where "Q" was the default auto attack button...we used to say "Press Q to Play"...now I'm going to say "Press Queue to Play, NOT AFK!"

i play with sound on background , so when a cs happens alt tab once u hear the "cling" of battle starting back to the game...and yeah praetorium is insane ...80% of the time u are in a CS , is good exp no doubt , but soooooo boring but is almost 0 work

FFXIV needs more ways to level alts jobs or at least more fun ways , make sidequests based on jobs or add the new game+ already something!

tired of doing labyrinth and castrum everyday

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Originally Posted by CazzT

TLDR: Don't punish people for finding a way around a bad change. Fix the problem and people won't feel inclined to find a way around the problem.

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You're making 7 other people carry you and making the encounter that much longer. You deserve the kick, right at the end too so you waste your time.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

There are probably lots of people unintentionally afking because the cut scenes are so insanely long that they have fallen asleep or gotten embroiled in something else and forget to check back with the game.

The few times I have run this roulette since the change and have gotten unlucky by getting the praetorium have been frustrating because I do not have multiple monitors, so if I want to do something else I have to click away from the game, and then I don’t know when there is a break in the movie and have to keep checking and checking. I wished I could set it so it would play a sound at the end of a cut scene when the game is not the active window. Potentially something like that to notify people that there’s a break in the cut scenes when they are clicked away would help. Or alternatively just make these dungeons solo.

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You can set up the game so you keep hearing the audio even when the game is in the background. That way you can alt-tab away while one of the extra long cutscenes play and still hear from the changes in the speech/music when the cutscene is over and something else is about to happen.
That's the way I do it anyway, and it works fine.

I always like to turn Praetorium into a bonding experience. Get everyone chatting and riffing during the cutscenes, ESPECIALLY if there is no new player bonus. We've managed to make an amusing outing for ourselves once it's over.

Yes, you can keep chats up during cutscenes.

I see them nerfing exp like they did for pvp because of this rip to that good exp... wish you would have kicked them and not made a whole thread lol

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I always like to turn Praetorium into a bonding experience. Get everyone chatting and riffing during the cutscenes, ESPECIALLY if there is no new player bonus. We've managed to make an amusing outing for ourselves once it's over.

Yes, you can keep chats up during cutscenes.

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I like doing this as well, but there's been quite a bit of times lately where I get these "mute" groups, no one chats, and it's completely boring. Maybe they were all PS4/controller players... /shrug :D

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're making 7 other people carry you and making the encounter that much longer. You deserve the kick, right at the end too so you waste your time.

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Good job ignoring literally everything before this. Go back and read what I wrote. I'm not defending the people AFKing. It's actually a little irritating that I even have to explain this since you couldn't even bother to read my post. Even the TLDR clearly is not defending AFK'ers. /facepalm

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Good job ignoring literally everything before this. Go back and read what I wrote. I'm not defending the people AFKing. It's actually a little irritating that I even have to explain this since you couldn't even bother to read my post. Even the TLDR clearly is not defending AFK'ers. /facepalm

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I did read what you wrote:

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Originally Posted by CazzT

It's not like people haven't been saying this will happen. Make a bad change, the players will find a way to deal with the bad change.
Instead of punishing people for dealing with a horrible change, reverse the horrible change. This was never a problem when the cutscenes could be skipped.

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Blaming the game for something players are doing. People were doing something undesirable before the cutscenes could be skipped: Rushing people through what is a sizeable chunk of the main story. Agreed this isn't optimal, but I will never excuse people doing rude things just because it's what's convenient and the system could be better.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

"But teh new plaeyrses!" There's been plenty of suggestions that would favor the new players without hindering or impacting people who have already passed that point of the MSQ.
"No xpeez or rewardses then!" MSQ roulette had XP and rewards before the asinine change. Put them back to that level.

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Yes, plenty of suggestions, lots of which involve entirely reworking old content that most players choose never to do again. But right now apparently the easiest solution was to make it not only optional for everyone who has passed that point in the story, but quite worth the time investment with little to no chance of failure.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

But we've been round and round this merry-go-round since Jan/Feb of 2018 when they put this change in.


TLDR: Don't punish people for finding a way around a bad change. Fix the problem and people won't feel inclined to find a way around the problem.

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I didn't want to start the argument about what was wrong with MSQ again, so I focused on your overall message:

It's SE's fault they did it this way, AFK'ers are just a result of their decision.


While you are not defending the people choosing to AFK you are saying that we should give consideration to the fact the encounter itself has great problems. I do not feel so. People who choose to do the cruddy thing are still choosing the cruddy thing, regardless of HOW cruddy the encounter it is they are making it worse.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I did read what you wrote:

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After I called you out for not doing that.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Blaming the game for something players are doing.

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How did you get that I'm blaming the game? I'm pointing to the bad decision to change how it works. It's painfully clear that's what I'm blaming.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

People were doing something undesirable before the cutscenes could be skipped: Rushing people through what is a sizeable chunk of the main story. Agreed this isn't optimal, but I will never excuse people doing rude things just because it's what's convenient and the system could be better.

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This makes me believe you're lying about having read what I wrote. Because I addressed this, too.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Yes, plenty of suggestions, lots of which involve entirely reworking old content that most players choose never to do again. But right now apparently the easiest solution was to make it not only optional for everyone who has passed that point in the story, but quite worth the time investment with little to no chance of failure.

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It was optional after you did it the first time even before the change. And what they did couldn't even be called a bandaid fix because it just led to other issues.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I didn't want to start the argument about what was wrong with MSQ again, so I focused on your overall message:

It's SE's fault they did it this way, AFK'ers are just a result of their decision.

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Which is accurate. So why are you twisting what I've said into things I never said? I think you did want to turn this into an argument, else you wouldn't have twisted my words.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

While you are not defending the people choosing to AFK you are saying that we should give consideration to the fact the encounter itself has great problems.

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Which it does. As evidenced by the fact that people are AFKing instead of participating.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I do not feel so.

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I can't even begin to fathom how you can't see the massive, glaring flaw.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

People who choose to do the cruddy thing are still choosing the cruddy thing, regardless of HOW cruddy the encounter it is they are making it worse.

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The EXP from the roulette is rather substantial. But in order to get that substantial reward, you must subject yourself to a non-interactive experience. Since people are logging in to PLAY THE GAME, but they're being offered a substantial reward that involves NOT playing the game, they are going to go into that content and seek the least frustrating way to proceed through it. This entire set up practically begs for people to AFK. People said this would happen right after this horrible change was made. It's now becoming an issue because more and more people are tired of queuing for a dungeon that they don't do anything in.

I really can't fathom how you can't see this flaw. And I can't figure out why you're trying to twist my words to say something I'm not saying. What I have said is clear. There's no way it could be misunderstood unless it was on purpose.

Honestly, both instances just need to be reworked completely. There's not much of a reason for players to run that roulette after its been cleared as many view the experience reward to not be worth the time it takes to clear them.

My thoughts:

Half the enemy health in the dungeons and change it to a 4-man instance. There's no reason currently that any fight in either dungeon needs to be done in an 8-man party. This would allow both dungeons to exist in the 50/60/70 roulette. Which means as well, they should remove the in-dungeon cutscenes. The major story scenes should take place before entering queue into the dungeon and after you leave.

And maybe, since people are running these for experience, you buff the experience reward for the 50/60/70 roulette since it's pretty abysmal as it currently stands.

These aren't hard fixes, but they also to just seem to be low priority fixes.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

After I called you out for not doing that.

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I have no reason to lie about reading your post.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

How did you get that I'm blaming the game? I'm pointing to the bad decision to change how it works. It's painfully clear that's what I'm blaming.

This makes me believe you're lying about having read what I wrote. Because I addressed this, too.

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You can think I'm lying, or think that someone interpreted what you wrote incorrectly (which is entirely possible). I summed up what I thought of what you posted in my 2nd reply.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

It was optional after you did it the first time even before the change. And what they did couldn't even be called a bandaid fix because it just led to other issues.

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Just because a fix causes more issues doesn't make it entirely unnecessary. There were other options sure, but considering how little development time went into their fixes: Number adjusting, flag flagging, I'd say their fix was expedient enough for ancient content.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Which is accurate. So why are you twisting what I've said into things I never said? I think you did want to turn this into an argument, else you wouldn't have twisted my words.

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I didn't come back with the "/facepalm". I'm fine just discussing things. I'm ready to drop this if you think I'm not worth the time.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Which it does. As evidenced by the fact that people are AFKing instead of participating.

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If a law has a loophole that people utilize, those people are still jerks and should be treated as such.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

I can't even begin to fathom how you can't see the massive, glaring flaw.

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For someone who is calling reading comprehension into question you took this oddly. I said we should not temper punishing AFKs with the knowledge that the system has problems. I understand there are problems, I don't think they excuse the behavior at all.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

The EXP from the roulette is rather substantial. But in order to get that substantial reward, you must subject yourself to a non-interactive experience. Since people are logging in to PLAY THE GAME, but they're being offered a substantial reward that involves NOT playing the game, they are going to go into that content and seek the least frustrating way to proceed through it. This entire set up practically begs for people to AFK. People said this would happen right after this horrible change was made. It's now becoming an issue because more and more people are tired of queuing for a dungeon that they don't do anything in.

I really can't fathom how you can't see this flaw. And I can't figure out why you're trying to twist my words to say something I'm not saying. What I have said is clear. There's no way it could be misunderstood unless it was on purpose.

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Again, I understand the system has problems. But the players solution shouldn't be to do something reprehensible. It's to NOT do the dungeon. It's optional and as you've said, not enjoyable as part of the game for certain people. Twisting the blame to the devs for someone taking advantage of others isn't a stance I can get behind. People have pointed out that there are similarly rewarding instances that can be run in the same amount of time (barring queue time) that DO require active interaction.

To restate my position: There is no excuse for doing something as inconsiderate as AFK'ing while 7 other people (or less) do the work for you. Even if there is work to be done on the system, it does not excuse parasitic behavior. I also do not consider a rework of the 2 MSQ dungeons in question to be priority.