Because Parry wasn't bad enough

"Parrying is now less effective in reducing damage"

Nice.

/slowclap

Eh oh well, doesn’t mean much for war because of the changes to raw intuition.

Yeah but affects GNB if they didn't fixed camouflage

I'm going to say something that I feel not enough people have said. Will you people PLEASE quit looking for things to nitpick and piss and moan about and just for once be thankful for what you got.

Well, it makes Camouflage slightly worse than we initially thought

Given there's no way to increase parry rate, and when there was it was useless, you could also just think of it as an adjustment to base damage taken and efficiency of cooldowns involving parry.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

I'm going to say something that I feel not enough people have said. Will you people PLEASE quit looking for things to nitpick and piss and moan about and just for once be thankful for what you got.

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If you don't have any opinion on the topic then you're free to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Reinfeld

Given there's no way to increase parry rate, and when there was it was useless, you could also just think of it as an adjustment to base damage taken and efficiency of cooldowns involving parry.

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Which negatively effects the only tank with a parry CD. The reduction to blocking is expected because they need to reset the baseline. But parry doesn't scale with gear or stats so it seems odd they'd reduce it's effectiveness.

I don't know, it just bothers me a bit that they've stripped so much out of tanking itself. Fine, we didn't use tank stance all the time, but rotating the plethora of damage reduction abilities at least help make it interesting. Those are gone now. Parry, as bad of a reputation as it's had, is just one of the passive things that make a tank a tank. An "identity" of sorts. The basic tank trait and removal of CD rotation play is slowly eroding what little dynamic play we had left.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

I'm going to say something that I feel not enough people have said. Will you people PLEASE quit looking for things to nitpick and piss and moan about and just for once be thankful for what you got.

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You must not know how humans operate.

Yeah don't look a gift horse in the mouth, but if i'm being gifted a retired race horse with a gimp leg I'm not gonna appreciate the gift much.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

If you don't have any opinion on the topic then you're free to ignore it.



Which negatively effects the only tank with a parry CD. The reduction to blocking is expected because they need to reset the baseline. But parry doesn't scale with gear or stats so it seems odd they'd reduce it's effectiveness.

I don't know, it just bothers me a bit that they've stripped so much out of tanking itself. Fine, we didn't use tank stance all the time, but rotating the plethora of damage reduction abilities at least help make it interesting. Those are gone now. Parry, as bad of a reputation as it's had, is just one of the passive things that make a tank a tank. An "identity" of sorts. The basic tank trait and removal of CD rotation play is slowly eroding what little dynamic play we had left.

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Pretty sure all the classes can parry, not just Tanks.

"omg they nerf parry mitigation rip GNB"

*also nerfed block strength*
PLDs: "are we a joke to you?"

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

I'm going to say something that I feel not enough people have said. Will you people PLEASE quit looking for things to nitpick and piss and moan about and just for once be thankful for what you got.

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The same logic applies to user posts.
"Please quit looking for for things to nitpick in peoples posts, Just be thankful they are even giving SE a chance to make QoL/gameplay improvements that keep them fueling the game with their cash."

Uts pretty inconsequential. The only question i have is why even bother on parry? They took it from 20% down to 19%. 5% less mitigstion that procs 5% of the time and only works on physical. Like....why? That average 0.25% less mitigation is going to do.....whay exactly?

The fact that they nerfed it doesnt bother me. What confuses me far more is that the nerf was utterly inconsequential. Why bother doing it at all if its so small?

The only reason i can think of is they will have both parry and block scale with weapon ilvl so they reset both to a lower level and the mit% will grow as our weapons upgrade. Basically making every tank scale like plds shield have for passive mit over time.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

The only reason i can think of is they will have both parry and block scale with weapon ilvl so they reset both to a lower level and the mit% will grow as our weapons upgrade. Basically making every tank scale like plds shield have for passive mit over time.

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That's the caveat. If they reduced effectiveness to increase proc chance or something it kind of makes sense.. But they didn't say anything about that so it's an uncertainty.

And yea, it is rather inconsequential if you look at it as an individual change, but it ties in to the larger picture of the reduced complexity on tanks and healers.

We don't even know how much it has actually been reduced, this most likely affects literally nothing. Gunbreaker CD is slightly worse, so what? We haven't even played the class yet, we don't know how good it will be compared to others, hell we don't even know the values of the skills, they could have changed from media tour build. So why is this such a big problem? If this wasn't listed in the patch notes pretty much no one would even notice this most likely.

It's actually something that's already happened during media tour, but somehow flew over everybody's heads is seems. New parry appears to be 15% and block in level 80 AF gear is 19%(of course it could be changed now but I kind of doubt it, we'll see on Friday for sure though).
https://i.imgur.com/N3dSZAU.png https://i.imgur.com/Na0JWUh.png

And ya, rip GBN even more than before, hopefully they buff their kit before Eden drops ._.

Welp, that makes sense then. They are just evening out tanks a bit by letting other tanks share in passove mit increases from ilvl instesd of just pld.

And all this rip gun is going to be yay gun as it scales. No one seemed to care that pld was 'weaker' at X.0 patches anf got way better at X.5 patches woth passove blocks, shelltron, and bulwark growing.. Gun will live with their 1 solitary skill growing too.

Were people really thinking "RIP gun" because parry went to 19% for 1 skill? Eesh. Yall worry to much.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

I wouldnt say it ties into reduced complexity or anything. The made passive mitigation that ayers have zero control over weaker. Theres not any complexity reduction to a piece of gameplay we dont have control over. It doesnt change anything we do. We just take 0.25% more damage on average.

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It's practically ALL passive mitigation now, which is what I'm lamenting. Of course we didn't have control over Parry specifically, but our mitigation suite was more active all-in-all - and now it's markedly more passive. In this sense is where I'm getting the reduced complexity, since we have less and less things within our control at all.

I had the idea a few weeks ago and should've posted it anyways, but was going to say something like "Tank Mastery Trait will ruin tanking- Change my Mind". But after thinking about it I decided not to. My feelings remain the same, however.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

It's practically ALL passive mitigation now, which is what I'm lamenting. Of course we didn't have control over Parry specifically, but our mitigation suite was more active all-in-all - and now it's markedly more passive. In this sense is where I'm getting the reduced complexity, since we have less and less things within our control at all.

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Just means more "healers adjust" cuz we cant :)

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Welp, that makes sense then. They are just evening out tanks a bit by letting other tanks share in passove mit increases from ilvl instesd of just pld.

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Erm, where are you taking that scaling part from? All we got is the patch note about parry value going down and that in media tour it was 15%, which is lower than current 20%.

I guess if it scales somehow that would be OK, but seems a bit like wishful thinking.

Probably similar reasoning as old stoneskin/lustrate changes, and how % scaling was apparently going to be too strong as base stats increased so they were removed/changed.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

And all this rip gun is going to be yay gun as it scales. No one seemed to care that pld was 'weaker' at X.0 patches anf got way better at X.5 patches woth passove blocks, shelltron, and bulwark growing.. Gun will live with their 1 solitary skill growing too.

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Well, that's because PLD had Blocking mechanics, ON TOP of what everyone else was getting.

PLD still had passive Parry, alongside their scaling passive block.

PLD still had Rampart in addition to Shelly/Bully.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Were people really thinking "RIP gun" because parry went to 19% for 1 skill? Eesh. Yall worry to much.

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Well, given that even with the current Parry being a flat 20% Camouflage was being seen as pretty meh and in need of a little tweak in order to actually be competitive with say, Thrill of Battle (The other 90s tank specific CD)

With Parry now being down to 15% the skill is pretty garbage. Especially given that it's only a 50% Parry chance and Parry is only for physical attacks and only rolled AFTER a failed Crit (Meaning Crits and Spells ignore Parry) AND Parry chance doesn't scale with gear (So you can't even grow into the skill being a reliable parry like you could make Bulwark put you to 100% block chance).

It's just objectively a bad skill, and is pretty much just a 90s 10% DR skill which is awful (Compare this to ToB's 20% max HP and healing or Dark Mind's 20% magical DR with 60s CD)

This means that GNB has the weakest 90s CD by far, along with the weakest active mitigation skill. Their AoE mitigation got nerfed into being joint weakest with Dark Missionary.

On top of having the weakest burst of all Tanks (Which already kills it for any kind of meta comp viability)

GNB is shaping up to be the worst Tank of the expansion, by a fair margin.

I remember in 1.0 I went full parry overmeld.
I destroyed so many pieces of gear.

Sad times these days...

I suppose the downsizing of parry and block is to not make the Tanks too tanky when they happen. After all, just by being Tanks they will take a 20% less damage than any other job.

Yea, Parry going down from 20 to 15% sounds pretty bad, but now Tanks have a passive 20% damage reduction by Trait...

That doesn't change the fact that for any Tank but GNB its pretty meh and for GNB is actually bad...

Block and parry being nerfed? You know what this means?


TBN IS EVEN BETTER BY COMPARISON! ALL HAIL THE ON-DEMAND MITIGATION KING, DARK KNIGHT!

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Block and parry being nerfed? You know what this means?


TBN IS EVEN BETTER BY COMPARISON! ALL HAIL THE ON-DEMAND MITIGATION KING, DARK KNIGHT!

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Would only be fair. DRK has no selfheal, he has to excel in mitigation to compensate.

However, we don't know the final build yet and TBN could be weaker than we think.

Whoops. I coulda sworn i saw 19% parry and 18% block mit somewhere, but incant seen to find it so i guess i made up the scaling in my head. Just plain nerf then.

You do realize they nerfed both parry and block because we now take 20% reduced damage at no penalty at all times, right? 15% parry in shadowbringers is more EHP than a parry currently unless you're in tank stance (and as we all know, you're never in tank stance)

To be honest it's a completely inconsequential change.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

I'm going to say something that I feel not enough people have said. Will you people PLEASE quit looking for things to nitpick and piss and moan about and just for once be thankful for what you got.

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its the thing to do on the internet to get attention. parry was like protect- pretty pointless. not as pointless but still.

"oH mY gOd They ChaNgEd SoMeThInG I scuuuurrred sO mUsT Be BaD"

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Originally Posted by Praesul

You do realize they nerfed both parry and block because we now take 20% reduced damage at no penalty at all times, right? 15% parry in shadowbringers is more EHP than a parry currently unless you're in tank stance (and as we all know, you're never in tank stance)

To be honest it's a completely inconsequential change.

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The final result is not out, thus we don't know if the trait will effectively matter in SHB content or if it will feel like current dps stance - my speculation is the latter will happen to make Healers a bigger part of the tank damage equation than prior.

For preSHB, this is correct though. Additionally we need to keep in mind GNB's eventual shield output from Brutal Shell as well once we see the final numbers on patch day - it is difficult comparing "type" cooldowns in a vacuum without taking a detailed look at the whole kit.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

You do realize they nerfed both parry and block because we now take 20% reduced damage at no penalty at all times, right? 15% parry in shadowbringers is more EHP than a parry currently unless you're in tank stance (and as we all know, you're never in tank stance)

To be honest it's a completely inconsequential change.

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For general passive mitigation, it's fairly inconsequential. Since, you never really relied upon Parry to mitigate anything.

However, it is notably impactful for the one remaining skill that is focused around Parry - Camouflage.

Raw Intuition was reworked and Anticipation has been scrapped, but they're introducing Camouflage which has a portion of its effect focused in boosting Parry chance, thus, the mitigation potential of Parry directly affects the mitigation potential of this skill.

Block is fine, since it's getting a massive buff in uptime due to Sheltron now being 6 seconds of 100% block instead of 1 instance of 100% block. (Also, 19% DR from a Block is not unheard of... I've encountered that during a number of Sync'd duties. Which still leaves room for it to scale back into 30%+ DR by the end of the expac and thus make Sheltron really OP compared to all other active mitigation skills)

If they didn't create Camouflage, then this Parry change would be completely inconsequential. Since its effect would be minor and probably not really noticeable to general tanking. However, as it stands, it's just yet another nerf to the mitigations of what looks to be a job that is already struggling with its defensive skills being on the lower end of effectiveness (And/or being nerfed as well such as Heart of Light's nerf)

Block strength will likely increase, I've heard that they reset block strength with each expansion back to around 20 percent and let it increase with the shields that we get. Not too worried about it. If the other tank mitigations are around 20percent reduction or 25 pct of hp, it's not terrible.

They want tanks to take more damage, so healers could heal more instead of dealing damage.

At least that what i think they are trying to do.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...Gunbreaker.png

Camouflage still the same for those curious

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

They want tanks to take more damage, so healers could heal more instead of dealing damage.

At least that what i think they are trying to do.

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> Wants Tanks to take more damage.

> Gives all Tanks passive 20% damage reduction from Trait

SE Logic.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Kalise

> Wants Tanks to take more damage.

> Gives all Tanks passive 20% damage reduction from Trait

SE Logic.

:rolleyes:

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But its still a nerf to tanks in tank stance, and majority of tanks are sitting this stance.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

But its still a nerf to tanks in tank stance, and majority of tanks are sitting this stance.

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Yeah, but baking in Tank Stance defensive bonus as a passive, doesn't make Tanks take more damage.

It only makes Tanks take LESS damage in content where damage is actually a thing (I.e. Savage/Ultimate) because in that content, the majority of Tanks are not using Tank Stance.

If SE were actually trying to make Tanks take more damage, they simply would remove that 20% damage reduction altogether. In favour of just stacks of HP (Without increased Healing like on the new Thrill of Battle).

As it stands, in easy content where incoming damage is not particularly high, Tanks overall will be taking roughly the same damage (As this is where you find the majority of tanks being in Tank Stance). But in actual content that actually makes damage matter, Tanks are overall taking less damage (As this is where you find the majority of tanks being in DPS Stance, especially as this is when Enrage Timers also become a thing)

Nerfing Parry by 5% barely affects any of these Tanks. Since it's not a particularly abundant mechanic and is one of the reasons why Anticipation is a trash skill because even with its boost you still don't Parry a whole lot.

The exception being the brand new Parry focused skill they designed after removing other Parry focused skills >.>

This nerf in parrying is SE fully shitting on the current DRK Community, considering that it is public knowledge that it will collectively change to GNB

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Originally Posted by Kalise

snip

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This completely.

The only way it's an honest nerf is if you view it for the initial pull/beginning of a mob pull before you switch tank stance off. It's still a nerf but it's a really a non issue for people who currently tank in dps stance as is.

The 20% trait is actually a buff to tanks in DPS stance, basically giving them a grit level buff as a passive. Taking away the parry focused skills from PLD and WAR is honestly pretty funny since it's trying to justify the nerf in parrying as is. WAR is the one hit by this the most as RI is a nice defensive cd, but now with a flat 20% def buff with a shorter duration and CD it almost makes that nerf null and void.

Gunbreaker having both a parry and a defensive buff in Camo is interesting. My guess is it'll make it an overall 15% defensive buff at best if autos are a constant otherwise it'll stick around 11-12%. The biggest boon is the 20 second duration which while having a longer CD Brutal Shell is going to be up constantly evening stuff out.