They're just trolling SCH players now

From the Live Letter published June 3rd, the very first sentence reads: "Most of scholar's capabilities weren't significantly changed."

We all know that Miasma 2, Bane, Energy Drain, Shadowflare, Protect, and even Selene (who was lazily reworked into Eos) were deleted. How can anyone say with a straight face the capabilities of this job weren't "significantly changed?"

They say they're making the game simpler, why? Do they think their player-base is stupid and incapable of learning to finesse a job? Is that why they make statements like, "most of scholar's capabilities weren't significantly changed," and expect not to be called out for it?

Sure, the job will allow players to overheal virtually every encounter, but how many times can someone just mash <broil> all the while telling themselves they're doing anything even remotely challenging enough to call it fun? Appalling.

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Originally Posted by Truen

From the Live Letter published June 3rd, the very first sentence reads: "Most of scholar's capabilities weren't significantly changed."

We all know that Miasma 2, Bane, Energy Drain, Shadowflare, Protect, and even Selene (who was lazily reworked into Eos) were deleted. How can anyone say with a straight face the capabilities of this job weren't "significantly changed?"

They say they're making the game simpler by removing button bloat...who, do they think their player-base is stupid and incapable of learning to finesse a job? Is that why they make statements like, "most of scholar's capabilities weren't significantly changed," and expect not to be called out for it?

Sure, the job will allow players to overheal virtually every encounter, but how many times can someone just mash <broil> all the while telling themselves they're doing anything even remotely challenging enough to call it fun? Appalling.

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Just find one thread and stick with it.

Really.

You put in Protect and Selene into this list?

Well it's true. Lustrate and Indom will still be there, still just as good. Chain strat is still there. Deploy critlo was weakened a little, but can now be available at will instead of requiring RNG. The capabilities are all still there. SCH will still probably be meta.

DPS is simplified and probably a bit weaker, and I can understand not particularly liking that, but with how OP SCH has been for years and years, something had to give.

That's the line you focused on as being "Trolling"? Not the one that goes "Instead of focusing on dealing damage while relying on the other healer to provide healing, both healers will be able support each other in the healing role. "?

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Originally Posted by Truen

From the Live Letter published June 3rd, the very first sentence reads: "Most of scholar's capabilities weren't significantly changed."

We all know that Miasma 2, Bane, Energy Drain, Shadowflare, Protect, and even Selene (who was lazily reworked into Eos) were deleted. How can anyone say with a straight face the capabilities of this job weren't "significantly changed?"

They say they're making the game simpler, why? Do they think their player-base is stupid and incapable of learning to finesse a job? Is that why they make statements like, "most of scholar's capabilities weren't significantly changed," and expect not to be called out for it?

Sure, the job will allow players to overheal virtually every encounter, but how many times can someone just mash <broil> all the while telling themselves they're doing anything even remotely challenging enough to call it fun? Appalling.

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There probably are a few factors resulting into them needing to simplify the jobs...

The needs of controller players vs. keyboard & mouse usually favor the keyboard and mouse controls in terms of performance and speed and amount of inputs and ability to react to mechanics, quickly toggling through large target pools, and maintain DPS/HPS output. This result to button bloat issues for controllers that result in actions being pruned that parties may expect to be used like palisade and cover, and very different reactions to increasing or decreasing the number of player actions.

It might just also be that reducing the number of actions that players are expected to use through simplification: players will have more time to deal with mechanics instead of their parse, which could allow the dev team to focus on more mechanically intensive encounters

The point is homogenization. They want every healer to be just as viable in all content and therefore safely interchangeable with only minor differences. This is a stark contrast to how it was back when SCH was first introduced, where SCH had a devil of a time acting as main healer and WHM were almost bereft of mitigation and instant recovery outside of stoneskin and benediction. Healing classes originally had strengths and weaknesses, and they complimented each other near on perfectly.

With each expansion this lessons a little, but it didn't start so bad. HW was great for SCH, giving them a super useful AoE lustrate, though the inclusion of AST muddied things because rather than serving a third role, it just sort of tried to be a poor-man's version of both the other two. They did not have a solid design idea for a 3rd healer other than a more varied focus on Selene-esque damage buffs (the cards), and certainly not one that could fit into the extremely complimentary balance of SCH and WHM from ARR, so they tried to make a class that could switch between roles. The end result was that first the class was garbage, and by buffing it as they did they made WHM less appealing.

SB exacerbated the issue as classes began to homogenize so that duty-finder could drop you into a double SCH or double WHM party without fear. Whereas in ARR you really felt the value of a SCH shield on a tankbuster or a WHM medica after an AoE, now it didn't really matter who you had healing, and identity shifted to whoever could do it better. Benefits like card damage buffs and weaved DPS gained massive weight, especially since healer DPS was so beneficial in early clears of raid encounters.

Finally with Shadowbringers, we have almost maximum homogenization, and I really mean that. The kits are all so similar it really doesn't matter what class you play, because outside of visuals they have even less functional identity. SCH still has more shields and their aetherflow stacks, but they have a ton more AoE heal options, complete with a shorter emergency tactics cooldown, and no longer have any damage design focus at all (damage rotation is almost identical to AST's in SB). WHM still has a healing focus and very few shields, but they have a lot more ogcd burst heal and have gained aetherflow stacks on a timer (new lily system) making them much closer to SCHs. AST are still the middle child, and all three classes play almost the exact same with a few minor individual gimmicks.

These differences will cause no small amount of debate, but in the end it won't matter, because the classes are no longer intended to be "complimentary", but "interchangeable". This is the design focus, and what must be accepted by current players. If you enjoyed the complimentary design from the early era of the game, then you have to accept that it is largely going away one step at a time, and there's nothing we can do about it.

"The point is homogenization. They want every healer to be just as viable in all content and therefore safely interchangeable with only minor differences. This is a stark contrast to how it was back when SCH was first introduced, where SCH had a devil of a time acting as main healer and WHM were almost bereft of mitigation and instant recovery outside of stoneskin and benediction. Healing classes originally had strengths and weaknesses, and they complimented each other near on perfectly."



So much this! I was SCH in late 2.0, my SO was WHM and we were the healing dream team in 8 person stuffs. But I had a heck of a time in some 4 person content where they would just breeze through, you really had to be on yer toes with ARR SCH and gods help ya if it was a firs run for that content. I did well, and was well regarded but oh my the "We're screwed, she's a SCH" comments. I do miss those days as it was fun bein the underdog healer and yet makin it work. I also don't miss those days as it was at times very tiring just existing :/

ps Who remembers the WHM recasting Protect? SCH was only physical mitigation xD

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well it's true. Lustrate and Indom will still be there, still just as good. Chain strat is still there. Deploy critlo was weakened a little, but can now be available at will instead of requiring RNG. The capabilities are all still there. SCH will still probably be meta.

DPS is simplified and probably a bit weaker, and I can understand not particularly liking that, but with how OP SCH has been for years and years, something had to give.

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Then why didn't they target the "OP" parts instead of everything that made its gameplay fun, engaging and unique in comparison to the other two healers?

All of the OP stuff? Still there. Barely touched. All the fun stuff? Mostly gone.

Or was Energy Drain, Shadowflare and Bane in some way breaking the game? Last I checked, none of those abilities was facilitating ignoring mechanics or reinforcing the meta.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Then why didn't they target the "OP" parts instead of everything that made its gameplay fun, engaging and unique in comparison to the other two healers?

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Because that would involve them understanding what makes the job OP.

Figuring this out would entail having someone on the small job design team that has more than passing understanding of the healers and how they play out when played at a high level.

They probably meant capabilities as an healer.

The line between semplify and optimise is subtle but it for sure gives them more space to go wild with boss mechanics which would be an trade I'd personally approve.

I thought this thread was going to be about the Sacred Soil tool tip at the media tour. It still has "Cannot be used with any other area-creating actions" on it, even though they took away our Shadowflare. Thanks for rubbing it in Square Enix. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Riblet

I thought this thread was going to be about the Sacred Soil tool tip at the media tour. It still has "Cannot be used with any other area-creating actions" on it, even though they took away our Shadowflare. Thanks for rubbing it in Square Enix. Thanks.

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Maybe they're making it so that, if you use it with Asylum or Collective Unconscious, whatever comes first will be overwritten.

I have to admit, I'm starting to get quite annoyed. Yes, SCH lost some skills (why the heck are you listing Protect there, though, you do realize that's a skill WHM lost in SH, right? It was never yours...), but can you please stop acting as if the job is unplayable now? Or do you imply that AST and WHM are also unplayable, because, oh my! Their DPS rotations aren't any different? You lost nothing that made SCH so good, it will still be meta in ShB, chill out. It's been overdue for 4 freaking years now that SCH gets knocked down a peck, and this isn't even doing that.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

WHM still has a healing focus and very few shields, but they have a lot more ogcd burst heal and have gained aetherflow stacks on a timer (new lily system) making them much closer to SCHs.

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Can people please stop spreading misinformation? NONE of the Afflatus-skills are oGCD; they are instant-GCD skills. Unless you are referring to Assize and Tetra, but we had those since HW, so...

I do agree with you for the most part, though, even if I find it sad that jobs aren't complementary anymore.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

I have to admit, I'm starting to get quite annoyed. Yes, SCH lost some skills (why the heck are you listing Protect there, though, you do realize that's a skill WHM lost in SH, right? It was never yours...), but can you please stop acting as if the job is unplayable now? Or do you imply that AST and WHM are also unplayable, because, oh my! Their DPS rotations aren't any different? You lost nothing that made SCH so good, it will still be meta in ShB, chill out. It's been overdue for 4 freaking years now that SCH gets knocked down a peck, and this isn't even doing that.


Can people please stop spreading misinformation? NONE of the Afflatus-skills are oGCD; they are instant-GCD skills. Unless you are referring to Assize and Tetra, but we had those since HW, so...

I do agree with you for the most part, though, even if I find it sad that jobs aren't complementary anymore.

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This is my bad, because I'm not fully up with all the minute changes. I have people telling me that fairy abilities are still ogcd abilities but with cast-actions like Fey Union now, so you can no longer cast Whispering Dawn during a Broil cast, and I also have people telling me they don't think this is true, so I'm not fully clear on the exact particulars. From my understanding Benison is an ogcd ability, as are Assize and Tetra, though the three new Afflatus are spells as opposed to abilities, so they do probably proc a full GCD afterwards. Sorry about that.

My personal opinion about SCH is that removing abilities and complexity is a shame. My major regret is that they reverted the Aetherflow trait that reduced its cooldown each time you burned a stack, and also (and much more significantly) that they took away Energy Drain, as that change right there is probably the biggest regret I have for the class. Being able to both dump unneeded stacks into mana-steal as well as pump up some burst DPS was great, and with the trait you always had that incentive to burn your stacks at regular pacing. You don't have that incentive any longer, or even an incentive to use stacks at all if they aren't needed, and a unique part of SCH design since ARR was removed (meaning ED, as the trait was fairly new, but I liked it a lot). That's depressing. The Aetherflow resource dynamic in deciding between available instant heals and DPS burst was a minor thing, but it was fun and unique to SCH and it's completely gone now, and if you were the type of player who legitimately enjoyed SCH over the other two healing options, then you're probably going to miss it.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

That's the line you focused on as being "Trolling"? Not the one that goes "Instead of focusing on dealing damage while relying on the other healer to provide healing, both healers will be able support each other in the healing role. "?

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Yeah because that has never been true, and the whole remark about 'off healers' just shows the speaker doesn't heal raids. For the whole of Stormblood, optimally, the other healer would use as many GCDs as possible to deal damage so that the Scholar would heal with OGCDS.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

It's been overdue for 4 freaking years now that

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the other healers needed better DPS rotations. Don't insist on making one job worse to be as bad as others. Crab mentality is unproductive. You are condoning explicit and blatant laziness.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

I have to admit, I'm starting to get quite annoyed. Yes, SCH lost some skills (why the heck are you listing Protect there, though, you do realize that's a skill WHM lost in SH, right? It was never yours...),.

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Umm.. White mage lost Protect in Heavensward, not Stormblood. Just thought I'd correct you there. It's stoneskin we lost in Stormblood... only to be given the "new" skill of Divine Benison... like stoneskin, but on a cooldown and instant...

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

the other healers needed better DPS rotations. Don't insist on making one job worse to be as bad as others. Crab mentality is unproductive. You are condoning explicit and blatant laziness.

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To be fair, I don't think she meant "taken down a notch" in the sense that SCH should get gutted, but more that the other jobs would be risen to its level so it didn't shine above them as much. I could be wrong, though.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

To be fair, I don't think she meant "taken down a notch" in the sense that SCH should get gutted, but more that the other jobs would be risen to its level so it didn't shine above them as much. I could be wrong, though.

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Speaking as someone who's wanted (and never received) a fun identity for White Mage for several expansions now, it's a bit of that, combined with frustration at seeing another Groundhog Day. Woohoo, another expansion where they nerf Scholar the wrong way, where all three healers have legitimate problems with their jobs, where Scholar is the only one that will get the red carpet rolled out and buffed straight back up to the most overpowered job in the game within 2-3 weeks, Astro will get the consolation spa day a month after that, and Chopped Liver over there can stay in the cupboard under the stairs because their complaining is getting annoying.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

the other healers needed better DPS rotations. Don't insist on making one job worse to be as bad as others. Crab mentality is unproductive. You are condoning explicit and blatant laziness.

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I insisted nothing like that, and I'm most definitely NOT condoning laziness. Am as mad as you, just about other things, like, you know WHM still getting jack sh*t. Want lazy design? How about taking skills away from a job just to give them back at a higher level, or giving them skills they already had with a different animation and slightly altered functionality, instead of fixing their actual problem people told them exist for 4 freaking years now? Or how about just creating a job that is a blattant copy-paste of the other healers? If you want to see lazy job design, look at WHM and AST. That are lazy design choices. SCH, at the end of the day, still feels different from the others to me at least.
If you would look around a bit, you might notice that I advocated for bringing the other healers on par (especially WHM) instead of nerfing SCH for ages now. Also, did you even read my post in full? I literally said "It's been overdue for 4 freaking years now that SCH gets knocked down a peck, and this isn't even doing that.". I quite literally said this isn't the way to get healers level. I also always said that each healer should be different from the others, but hey, just jump my throat, it's fine, I can take it. Reading comprehension is a pretty useful skill and I would recommend you work on it.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Umm.. White mage lost Protect in Heavensward, not Stormblood. Just thought I'd correct you there. It's stoneskin we lost in Stormblood... only to be given the "new" skill of Divine Benison... like stoneskin, but on a cooldown and instant...


To be fair, I don't think she meant "taken down a notch" in the sense that SCH should get gutted, but more that the other jobs would be risen to its level so it didn't shine above them as much. I could be wrong, though.

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Didn't we 'just' loose the unique trait in HW? I meant it vanishing from our skill tree completely, but I agree that the real loss was in HW already and they could just as well have given that skill to everyone back then already, wouldn't have made any difference. It's just so easy to blame SB (I also just spotted a typo there, shouldn't post when it's so late it seems) since we lost so freaking much back then... and I'm honest, seeing people that told us to just shut up, it won't be so bad back then now cry all the same both feels karmic and annoying at the same time...

Also, I kinda meant both. SCH needed a slight nerf, just not by betting gutted but by adjustment of skills instead, but the others also needed a buff. However, just cutting their DPS won't even do that all that much since the healing kit is practically untouched or even improved, and that's what gave SCH all those windows for DPS in the first place. So I would have seen their superiority in healing cut down a bit than DPS, or if they had to change their DPS, by adjusting potencies. Instead they got even better at healing, which makes them step on the others toes just all that much more.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Speaking as someone who's wanted (and never received) a fun identity for White Mage for several expansions now, it's a bit of that, combined with frustration at seeing another Groundhog Day. Woohoo, another expansion where they nerf Scholar the wrong way, where all three healers have legitimate problems with their jobs, where Scholar is the only one that will get the red carpet rolled out and buffed straight back up to the most overpowered job in the game within 2-3 weeks, Astro will get the consolation spa day a month after that, and Chopped Liver over there can stay in the cupboard under the stairs because their complaining is getting annoying.

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Yeah, I'm looking forward to that so much already as well.../s
And if then someone comes back to me telling me to chill, it's not that bad, WHM is in a good spot, they get told a few things they can do in quite explicit terms and I'll gladly take the ensuing ban. I'm so having enough of that bullshit already, you won't guess. Or probably will, you are in the same boat after all...

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Speaking as someone who's wanted (and never received) a fun identity for White Mage for several expansions now, it's a bit of that, combined with frustration at seeing another Groundhog Day. Woohoo, another expansion where they nerf Scholar the wrong way, where all three healers have legitimate problems with their jobs, where Scholar is the only one that will get the red carpet rolled out and buffed straight back up to the most overpowered job in the game within 2-3 weeks, Astro will get the consolation spa day a month after that, and Chopped Liver over there can stay in the cupboard under the stairs because their complaining is getting annoying.

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Amen is all I can really say to that T_T; And then in 6.0 we'll get a new Magic DPS job (gotta have 4 and we just got a rdps) and a new Melee DPS job that uses dragoon armor because we've needed another one of those forever, right? And "Oh? What? Healers? (who the hell were they again?) Oh... right... we uh... still need to balance them... yeah... that's it...

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Amen is all I can really say to that T_T; And then in 6.0 we'll get a new Magic DPS job (gotta have 4 and we just got a rdps) and a new Melee DPS job that uses dragoon armor because we've needed another one of those forever, right? And "Oh? What? Healers? (who the hell were they again?) Oh... right... we uh... still need to balance them... yeah... that's it...

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If that legit happens, a lot of healers would just up and leave.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Amen is all I can really say to that T_T; And then in 6.0 we'll get a new Magic DPS job (gotta have 4 and we just got a rdps) and a new Melee DPS job that uses dragoon armor because we've needed another one of those forever, right? And "Oh? What? Healers? (who the hell were they again?) Oh... right... we uh... still need to balance them... yeah... that's it...

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https://i.imgur.com/9KCIeJi.gif

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Speaking as someone who's wanted (and never received) a fun identity for White Mage for several expansions now, it's a bit of that, combined with frustration at seeing another Groundhog Day. Woohoo, another expansion where they nerf Scholar the wrong way, where all three healers have legitimate problems with their jobs, where Scholar is the only one that will get the red carpet rolled out and buffed straight back up to the most overpowered job in the game within 2-3 weeks, Astro will get the consolation spa day a month after that, and Chopped Liver over there can stay in the cupboard under the stairs because their complaining is getting annoying.

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Feels like I'm in the Matrix, wonder how many times this prophecy is going to come true until we can break free? Save us, Keanu Reeves!

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Originally Posted by Truen

They say they're making the game simpler, why? Do they think their player-base is stupid and incapable of learning to finesse a job?

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A quick trip to fflogs would confirm your suspicions. Or just using the Duty Finder anytime in the last 4 years.

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Originally Posted by Tlachtga

A quick trip to fflogs would confirm your suspicions. Or just using the Duty Finder anytime in the last 4 years.

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A tip from education: "Never dumb down your curriculum to the lowest baseline of understanding in your classes. Always leave room for growth; keep your standards high and students will eventually grow to reach them." SE are ruining what made these classes interesting and enjoyable; they're arguably the worst changes I've ever seen forced upon a job/class in any MMO I've ever played.

It reminds me of the mess Sony made to StarWars Galaxies in 2006 when they destroyed Jedi unlocks. The homogenization is so reprehensible it's hard to fathom they're actually going through with it.

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Originally Posted by Truen

A tip from education: "Never dumb down your curriculum to the lowest baseline of understanding in your classes. Always leave room for growth; keep your standards high and students will eventually grow to reach them." SE are ruining what made these classes interesting and enjoyable; they're arguably the worst changes I've ever seen forced upon a job/class in any MMO I've ever played.

It reminds me of the mess Sony made to StarWars Galaxies in 2006 when they destroyed Jedi unlocks. The homogenization is so reprehensible it's hard to fathom they're actually going through with it.

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Bro, this is a video game...

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Originally Posted by Truen

A tip from education: "Never dumb down your curriculum to the lowest baseline of understanding in your classes. Always leave room for growth; keep your standards high and students will eventually grow to reach them." SE are ruining what made these classes interesting and enjoyable; they're arguably the worst changes I've ever seen forced upon a job/class in any MMO I've ever played.

It reminds me of the mess Sony made to StarWars Galaxies in 2006 when they destroyed Jedi unlocks. The homogenization is so reprehensible it's hard to fathom they're actually going through with it.

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So we really are ignoring that the same happened to WHM before, just because now it's SCH that got hit? Don't you carry quite a bit of double standard and bias there? Where were you two years ago?

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Originally Posted by Truen

A tip from education: "Never dumb down your curriculum to the lowest baseline of understanding in your classes. Always leave room for growth; keep your standards high and students will eventually grow to reach them." SE are ruining what made these classes interesting and enjoyable; they're arguably the worst changes I've ever seen forced upon a job/class in any MMO I've ever played.

It reminds me of the mess Sony made to StarWars Galaxies in 2006 when they destroyed Jedi unlocks. The homogenization is so reprehensible it's hard to fathom they're actually going through with it.

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It's not even close to the worst changes in an MMO lol. Calm down.

Also, you're only concentrating on the dps part. SCH's healing kit is still damn strong, and they still have Chain. You'll live. Just like WHM did two years when we got a bunch of skills taken from us, and given a trash job mechanic. And then wallowed in mediocrity behind Diurnal AST for the majority of the expansion...

Stop overreacting and drop the farm mindset; we don't know how hard the savage raids/ultimates are going to hit.

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Originally Posted by Tlachtga

It's not even close to the worst changes in an MMO lol. Calm down.

Also, you're only concentrating on the dps part. SCH's healing kit is still damn strong, and they still have Chain. You'll live. Just like WHM did two years when we got a bunch of skills taken from us, and given a trash job mechanic. And then wallowed in mediocrity behind Diurnal AST for the majority of the expansion...

Stop overreacting and drop the farm mindset; we don't know how hard the savage raids/ultimates are going to hit.

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Oh thank god. I'm so glad that these aren't the worst changes in MMO history. Whew. /s

We all know that SCH's healing kit is strong. It obviously is. No one is complaining about it being "weak" and even if it was, it would be easy to buff it by changing a few numbers here and there. We are annoyed because the job is dumbed down, and therefore more boring for the people that were able to play it just fine until now.

"You'll live" yeah obviously everyone will want a healer that can line up Chain Stratagem with Trick Attack so SCH would still be meta even if the job was "weak".

"Stop overreacting and drop the farm mindset; we don't know how hard the savage raids/ultimates are going to hit. "

Stop telling people what to do if you are going to keep saying this. You are not adding anything to the discussion, you are only removing from it. These forums exist for us to give feedback about the game and I don't understand what you gain from telling people to stop giving feedback about things they like, or used to like, about the game. All you accomplish by doing this is coming off as self-righteous.

Calling it now: 6.0 will have a new healer...as a Limited Job.

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

There probably are a few factors resulting into them needing to simplify the jobs...

The needs of controller players vs. keyboard & mouse usually favor the keyboard and mouse controls in terms of performance and speed and amount of inputs and ability to react to mechanics, quickly toggling through large target pools, and maintain DPS/HPS output. This result to button bloat issues for controllers that result in actions being pruned that parties may expect to be used like palisade and cover, and very different reactions to increasing or decreasing the number of player actions.

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Now I might be an outlier as a fighting game player who enters tournament with pad instead of stick, but I don't have much of an issue switching between X-hotbars at a fast clip. Especially if a lot of the skills that would on X-hotbar 3+ are niche and don't need to be used GCD to GCD or even in every encounter.

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

It might just also be that reducing the number of actions that players are expected to use through simplification: players will have more time to deal with mechanics instead of their parse, which could allow the dev team to focus on more mechanically intensive encounters

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The issue here is that they can also close off design space by removing or ignoring types of skills. This game could be making a lot more use of crowd control, but it doesn't, and it furthers the cycle of making it less important when CC then goes up first on the chopping block.

There is also a lot of casual content in this game that will never be mechanically intensive enough to justify the tedium of 2-1-1-1-1-1-1 filler. Having something more involved than that is essential to not burning out on stuff like tome grind content. I stopped healing in Expert in Stormblood, DPS queue times disregarded, because it is so, SO boring to (not ever have to actually) heal "endgame" content where everyone is overgeared and it wouldn't be that hard if we were all at min ilvl anyways.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

Just find one thread and stick with it.

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they wont because "crying healers" are hot and will become an insta hit. that is how the internet works. comment section? hate everything and copy and paste everything. insta like. healers are fine

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Originally Posted by Anoin

Oh thank god. I'm so glad that these aren't the worst changes in MMO history. Whew. /s

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Just a response to an overly dramatic post.

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Originally Posted by Anoin

We all know that SCH's healing kit is strong. It obviously is. No one is complaining about it being "weak" and even if it was, it would be easy to buff it by changing a few numbers here and there. We are annoyed because the job is dumbed down, and therefore more boring for the people that were able to play it just fine until now.

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This is not unique to SCH. Basically every job has been dumbed down in ShB.

You're also really overstating the difficulty of SCHs dps rotation. This isn't HW.

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Originally Posted by Anoin

"You'll live" yeah obviously everyone will want a healer that can line up Chain Stratagem with Trick Attack so SCH would still be meta even if the job was "weak".

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So you keep your guaranteed raid slot and powerful ogcd heals. THE SKY IS FALLING

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Originally Posted by Anoin

"Stop overreacting and drop the farm mindset; we don't know how hard the savage raids/ultimates are going to hit. "

Stop telling people what to do if you are going to keep saying this. You are not adding anything to the discussion, you are only removing from it. These forums exist for us to give feedback about the game and I don't understand what you gain from telling people to stop giving feedback about things they like, or used to like, about the game. All you accomplish by doing this is coming off as self-righteous.

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There's barely a discussion taking place lol

I think it is important to wait for the content to actually release before making judgements. It adds a lot to actual feedback. For example, something like this:

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They removed a lot of skills from Scholar with Shadowbringers, and it was assumed that these changes would accompany a noticeable increase in damage output for ShB duties, and a change in fight design for high level duties. This hasn't been the case.

The damage output/fight design has not changed significantly as we hoped, and when paired with the removal of dps abilities, it has led to an extremely dull experience for SCH compared to previous expansions... ect.

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sounds a lot better than "REEEEEEEEEEEE they took our skills"

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Originally Posted by Anoin

We are annoyed because the job is dumbed down, and therefore more boring for the people that were able to play it just fine until now.

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While the complaint is fair, it definitly sounds elitist when you put it like that, as it immediatly raises the question: "yeah but, what about the people who weren't able/didn't like to play it until now?"
Defending the people who currently like the job is fine, but you should keep in mind how many people don't like it, and how much of a headache it is to deal with a healing job coming from a DPS class. If you do, you should be able to see why the upsides of changing the job seem more attractive than the downside of getting some people "annoyed". At least for SE and the future of FFXIV as a mainstream MMORPG with only 3 healers.

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Originally Posted by Anoin

Stop telling people what to do if you are going to keep saying this. You are not adding anything to the discussion, you are only removing from it. These forums exist for us to give feedback about the game and I don't understand what you gain from telling people to stop giving feedback about things they like, or used to like, about the game. All you accomplish by doing this is coming off as self-righteous.

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This seems out of place considering that a lot of people who said they were okay with the changes were shut down immediatly by others who didn't.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

This seems out of place considering that a lot of people who said they were okay with the changes were shut down immediatly by others who didn't.

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Maybe I've not seen the comments, but I've not seen people going after people *just* for being okay with the changes. Generally, it's people who go "I'm okay with them, and so should you be" that get shut down. Otherwise, it tends to be (Possibly poorly) attempts to explain why people aren't happy.