SCH in 5.0 via MrHappy's Healer Video

https://youtu.be/q9udCnUboGE

I usually didn't watch MrHappy, but I couldn't deny some 5.0 info regarding one of my fav jobs, SCH.

What I really like about SCH is that it is a shielding healer and has a pet to partially heal for you. This gives the player a lot of possible downtime when investing in shields to GIVE them time and a pet to extend their downtime.

In 5.0, however, we seem to be losing...
Bane
Miasma 2
Energy drain
Shadow Flare

These might not seem like a big deal to you, but Bane is probably the most important loss. The typical pull includes shielding the tank, dotting the first ad, and using bane when the tank groups them together. That simple and perfect strategy is now gone.

Miasma 2 and Energy drain are a big deal, because it's simply a Aether stack and MP dump all in one. Now if we keep the trait that reduces Aetherflow cooldown if we use a stack, this will just make it more likely that we use Aetherflow while still having stacks, thus wasting utility..

I know what a lot of people might say:
"Just don't play the job."
This might seem like a reasonable response like:
"Vote with your wallet." But they are not the same.

I'm here to give feedback, and I'd appreciate less useful responses. This is a place for feedback, so i don't understand why some complain about complaining. ???

Anyway. I really love Monk and SCH. They keep me busy and it's a lot of fun. hopefully they'll both give similar experiences in 5.0 and beyond. :)

edit: I also understand that "5.0 will be more demanding for healing", but what about everything else? There's still 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 content.. Did we really need options taken away for just one out of five sections of the game?.. Maybe? Idk.

First I’ll give credit for the civil and well written feedback. I can’t deny that the changes detailed in the old development build for scholar was alarming but i dont think it would hurt to give one or two of it’s dps skills back. Bane, shadow flare, something... anything? Like really Dev team just one thing.

Watching how SCH plays in that dungeon in the video was cringe worthy. It looks awful. And why is Art of War not only higher than the others MP wise, but also it's animation is terrible too.

I've seen a lot of mention of people wanting Bane back, but with Miasma and Bio gone, Bane is worthless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkpaw

First I’ll give credit for the civil and well written feedback. I can’t deny that the changes detailed in the old development build for scholar was alarming but i dont think it would hurt to give one or two of it’s dps skills back. Bane, shadow flare, something... anything? Like really Dev team just one thing.

---

I think this is a partial solution to SCH in general, and by that I mean its connection to a DPS job, SMN. SCH has always been different with its roots in a DPS class, and thus really shown in the laater half of 2.x when it was simply a DPS machine along with precise single target heals.

Don't get me wrong, we can still throw dots like AST can (as far as I know), but I personally do not want to sit there and dot each single enemy.. That simply doesn't sound fun to me. I may be putting too much stock into these "current decisions", and we will see if that is the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Watching how SCH plays in that dungeon in the video was cringe worthy. It looks awful. And why is Art of War not only higher than the others MP wise, but also it's animation is terrible too.

I've seen a lot of mention of people wanting Bane back, but with Miasma and Bio gone, Bane is worthless.

---

Ah yes I did consider if bio and Bio2 were even still there, but at 12:29 in the video I linked it DOES in fact still show bio and Bio2 there. Maybe this was unintended, but I'm drawing my judgment from the gameplay that was available to people like MrHappy.

Art of War is kind of interesting. It cost more mana than Holy yet we don't keep Energy Drain to combat that difference. What gives? I can only see this as a huge nerf.

Is there any particular thing that tells you that 5.0 will be more demanding for healing? I may have missed something where this was said by the devs (unless you are referring to the "pure healer" slide, which...has a different meaning on the dev's side, in that it's usually contrasted with mitigative healing, rather than meaning "focusing on nothing but healing"). Classes getting more healing options doesn't really mean the healing burden will increase. As we saw when WHM received all of its new oGCD healing in HW, content didn't really get much harder to heal. In fact, it made the healing burden even easier because now you didn't have to waste GCDs to heal someone. Stormblood also didn't really change much in healing burden. The footage I've seen has also shown this to be the case.

Here's my issue: For two expansions now (4 years + whatever ShB lasts) Healers have been told "We need to hold off on healers (and tanks) so we can balance them" and this is the result. Homogenized jobs. Dumbed down jobs.

That's not fun gameplay. If I wanted a single DoT and a filler spell, I would have played AST. No AST I've talked to would wish their DPS rotation on anyone because it's bloody boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBitty

Is there any particular thing that tells you that 5.0 will be more demanding for healing?

---

IIRC this was outright stated by SE, though I can't remember where. They said the same thing before HW and SB released as well. I think they're just going through the motions at this point, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fantasticm

IIRC this was outright stated by SE, though I can't remember where. They said the same thing before HW and SB released as well. I think they're just going through the motions at this point, lol.

---

Well to give them credit, healing WAS more demanding in 3.0, until we outgeared things. Though there were a few fights that did demand quite a bit of healing even after we did...Final Steps of Faith being one. I'm perfectly fine with that being the level of healing they want if they're going for that.

Honestly any changes for me would have been fine so long as the jobs stayed true to their namesake and lore, at this rate they might as well make cure, medica, the dots, single target dps spell all role actions, they barely function differently now.

If they wanted to prune a spell no one wants to see or rework it, it should have been physick, I've never needed that spell in the whole like gosh know how many years I've played the job barely, at least while the fairy still had potency and the fact we have so many heal bloated oGCD's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

And why is Art of War not only higher than the others MP wise, but also it's animation is terrible too.

---

Glad I'm not the only one who felt that way about the animation. Why, as a Scholar, am I up in melee range of the mobs punching the ground? Who thought that made any sense for the flavor of the class? Lol

I was debating if I should even reply...I know there is a big rage for healers going on and anyone that posts something positive just gets shit on, but I'm going to take the chance.

It appears like SE wants to reduce the AoE output of healers, obviously. So removing Bane/Miasma 2 seems pretty logical and replacing it with Art of War, 150 potency AoE. WHM's Holy is 140 potency now and has a cast time. Having both Bane and Miasma 2 ontop of AoE would have been way too much AoE dps compared to WHM/AST. Since SCH are so keen on keeping Miasma 2, they can just reduce the potency of AoW and give it a DoT effect to make up for the missing potency.

And yes, I feel people are going to point out that WHM get Misery, but that would be once every 90 seconds so it isn't spammable vs a SCH being able to spam Miasma 2/AoW/Bane

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TraeSnow

I was debating if I should even reply...I know there is a big rage for healers going on and anyone that posts something positive just gets shit on, but I'm going to take the chance.

It appears like SE wants to reduce the AoE output of healers, obviously. So removing Bane/Miasma 2 seems pretty logical and replacing it with Art of War, 150 potency AoE. WHM's Holy is 140 potency now and has a cast time. Having both Bane and Miasma 2 ontop of AoE would have been way too much AoE dps compared to WHM/AST. Since SCH are so keen on keeping Miasma 2, they can just reduce the potency of AoW and give it a DoT effect to make up for the missing potency. Also, would Bane even be with it now that SCH still has 1 DoT? Spreading 1 DoT with significant reduction after the first target just doesn't seem that beneficial.

And yes, I feel people are going to point out that WHM get Misery, but that would be once every 90 seconds so it isn't spammable vs a SCH being able to spam Miasma 2/AoW/Bane

---

You seem to be arguing in good faith so I'll respond. I can respond as a SCH because this is what I've mained for a long time.

Lets start with the spread one dot via Bane position you think is a bad thing. The wonderful thing about a SCH's kit in SB and before is you had a lot of multiple things rolling at once and there were different ways to do it. In an AOE situation, you could Miasma 2 first, Weave in Shadowflare, and while those had started some damage, Miasma > Bio > Bane and by that time Miasma 2 was finishing up it's dot duration so you could Miasma 2 again.

Doing similar to that, I would routinely top the damage in aoe situations as a SCH. Now that has something to be said about how bad the DPS I was with, or how they simple refused to AoE for whatever reason, but SCH AOE was REALLY strong. Damage has always been a part of the SCH identity. Since ARR. That was their identity. They were the Red Mages before Red Mage was a thing in FFXIV.

And now that's gone.

However, from what I see about Biolysis, it's essentially very similar to Miasma and Bio combined so pushing one button and bane wouldn't be much of a dps loss than pushing two buttons and bane.

Ideally for decent aoe, we need Miasma 2, Bane, and Energy Drain back. We need some sort of way to dump our stacks that isn't Exco/Lustrate/Indom because people don't need to be healed 100% of the time because people don't need to be at 100% of their HP 100% of the time.

Looking at the MR. Happy Video, WHM were having zero MP issues while BOTH SCH and AST were struggling pretty hard. For SCH Art of War and the lack of Energy Drain to restore mana has a LOT to do with that. That needs to be addressed somehow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TraeSnow

I was debating if I should even reply...I know there is a big rage for healers going on and anyone that posts something positive just gets shit on, but I'm going to take the chance.

It appears like SE wants to reduce the AoE output of healers, obviously. So removing Bane/Miasma 2 seems pretty logical and replacing it with Art of War, 150 potency AoE. WHM's Holy is 140 potency now and has a cast time. Having both Bane and Miasma 2 ontop of AoE would have been way too much AoE dps compared to WHM/AST. Since SCH are so keen on keeping Miasma 2, they can just reduce the potency of AoW and give it a DoT effect to make up for the missing potency.

And yes, I feel people are going to point out that WHM get Misery, but that would be once every 90 seconds so it isn't spammable vs a SCH being able to spam Miasma 2/AoW/Bane

---

Honestly I would be very fine with them tuning down the numbers if that means keeping bane and miasma 2. Hell just remove art of war and add these two again ... they can even nerf miasma 2 to art of war levels or worse for all I care. Just give me some complexity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Looking at the MR. Happy Video, WHM were having zero MP issues while BOTH SCH and AST were struggling pretty hard. For SCH Art of War and the lack of Energy Drain to restore mana has a LOT to do with that. That needs to be addressed somehow.

---

For SCH, I wonder how much of that will be this ingrained "Don't use Aetherflow while having stacks, don't overheal" mentality we (logically) have that means we won't use Aetherflow on cooldown for MP recovery. I've been trying to think of an ability SCH could use to burn Aetherflow stacks but not do damage/recover MP (Since SE seems to want neither, with Energy Drain gone) and unless there ends up being a literal "Dump all Aetherflow stacks, gain 10 faerie gauge per stack" skill, I'm just not sure what they would allow that doesn't just...Do more healing. Maybe "Use 1 Aetherflow Stack. Gain 10 Faerie Gauge. Lower Cooldown of Aetherflow by 5 seconds." which would fall under SCH's basics of using Aetherflow strategically, in a sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBitty

Is there any particular thing that tells you that 5.0 will be more demanding for healing?

---

Mr. Happy said he noticed when he was with players (not the trust characters who are designed to take less damage) that damage seemed more intense/frequent and health bars were going down faster, so he asked Yoshi P about this during the opportunity for an interview. The relevant segment run from 3:12 to 5:57 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uFvDXs-rLk&

More or less from what Happy took away from the answer he received, SE wants healing to matter significantly more, but not to the point where healers never get a chance to deal damage in groups or to a point where new players or new healers are overwhelmed.

Plus from this link to a transcript from a different interview (emphasis in bold added):

Quote:

---

Q: On to the Healers, Scholar seems to have lost a lot of DPSing abilities, we feel like this will be an adjustment where opinions will vary a lot. Can you go into detail on what the thought process was while deciding on changes needed to balance the Healers?

Yoshida: We believe trying to heal as little as possible and DPSing instead isn’t what a Healers role should be, so we adjusted all 3 Healers to be more balanced while keeping their original characteristics alive. Content can be cleared on any of the Healers, but Scholar in particular had a much bigger toolkit for attacking and player feedback on Healers always focused on the ease or difficulty of putting out DPS numbers. This is why we wanted to precisely redefine the role a Healer has while balancing all 3 and then giving them characteristics through their attacks. A big part was that we sorted out the remainders you had as a Scholar from being an Arcanist first. Please try to look at the changes as us trying to balance Scholar as a Healer and not just trying to lower the DPS output of a Scholar.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

And why is Art of War not only higher than the others MP wise, but also it's animation is terrible too.

---

its also just the pvp SCH skill animation

just wanted to point that out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duskane

its also just the pvp SCH skill animation

just wanted to point that out

---

Yes, that's it!!! I was trying to remember why it looked so familiar. A copy of Aura Blast. Lame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tinythinker

Plus from this link to a transcript from a different interview (emphasis in bold added):

---

I swear they have no idea how SCH worked...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morzy

Ah yes I did consider if bio and Bio2 were even still there, but at 12:29 in the video I linked it DOES in fact still show bio and Bio2 there. Maybe this was unintended, but I'm drawing my judgment from the gameplay that was available to people like MrHappy.

---

Do you mean in the class action window? I only see Biolysis on his bars.

I do have a question. I'm sort of confused on how the new fairy actions are going to work. In any of the videos that show the skills tool tips, the fairy actions all/mostly say "cannot be assigned to a hot bar."

So, are they just going to operate like how Eos operates currently on Sic - aka blowing Whispering Dawn when no one's taken any damage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I do have a question. I'm sort of confused on how the new fairy actions are going to work. In any of the videos that show the skills tool tips, the fairy actions all/mostly say "cannot be assigned to a hot bar."

So, are they just going to operate like how Eos operates currently on Sic - aka blowing Whispering Dawn when no one's taken any damage?

---

At least one video (Larryzaur) has the Faerie Skills on the hotbar even though it says it can't, so I am assuming we are good. If it's like Sic Eos, they messed up the faeries hard. I am guessing it's like SMN's pet actions due to Seraph, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I do have a question. I'm sort of confused on how the new fairy actions are going to work. In any of the videos that show the skills tool tips, the fairy actions all/mostly say "cannot be assigned to a hot bar."

So, are they just going to operate like how Eos operates currently on Sic - aka blowing Whispering Dawn when no one's taken any damage?

---

It's probably like Aetherpact/Devotion on SMN currently, where the pet action is listed independently of the skill that commands them to do it. As far as I know, Embrace is automated and every other action is used by the Scholar.

They gutted the class knowing full well how much we'd hate it. They did it anyway. I don't see anything coming back. They don't care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Ideally for decent aoe, we need Miasma 2, Bane, and Energy Drain back. We need some sort of way to dump our stacks that isn't Exco/Lustrate/Indom because people don't need to be healed 100% of the time because people don't need to be at 100% of their HP 100% of the time.

---

I totally agree with you. The fact that you want to keep Aetherflow on cooldown 1) to maximise your stacks, 2) for MP purposes, 3) to build your fairy gauge; it means that you will want to stack dump at some point. As of now, it means throwing a lustrate/indom to top one/everyone even if that heal isn't required. This will generate massive overheal (which could lead into aggro issues, but that remains speculation considering the changes to aggro-generation).

TL;DR: The loss of Energy Drain removed the stack dump outlet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tinythinker

Mr. Happy said he noticed when he was with players (not the trust characters who are designed to take less damage) that damage seemed more intense/frequent and health bars were going down faster, so he asked Yoshi P about this during the opportunity for an interview. The relevant segment run from 3:12 to 5:57 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uFvDXs-rLk&

More or less from what Happy took away from the answer he received, SE wants healing to matter significantly more, but not to the point where healers never get a chance to deal damage in groups or to a point where new players or new healers are overwhelmed.

Plus from this link to a transcript from a different interview (emphasis in bold added):

---

Why do they do this to the healers and especially SCH T_T... I mean seriously, does Yoshida and the devs really want the Healers to be bored all the time? Even if the mobs or w/e hits a bit harder, it just reduces the DPS time to around 30-40%(someone mentioned it on another Thread already) this means that in this time the healers will feel bored and unengaged.
Why can't SE think about the Healers who played either from ARR, or HW or atleast SB that they feel unengaged and bored? Why do they think about "new players" instead of their playerbase? That is not how designers should work if they cherish their community..but it seems like that they do not cherish their healer playerbase if we look at WHM or the SB start.
All I hope for now is that SE atleast considers what their community likes and wants instead of only talking about "new players"...WoW made a lot of errors with their changes since Cataclysm and SE seems to do the same with their Healers. They need to reconsider and finally let the healer community talk to the healer devs for once.

And btw thanks for posting this! That is really important!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tinythinker

Mr. Happy said he noticed when he was with players (not the trust characters who are designed to take less damage) that damage seemed more intense/frequent and health bars were going down faster, so he asked Yoshi P about this during the opportunity for an interview. The relevant segment run from 3:12 to 5:57 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uFvDXs-rLk&

More or less from what Happy took away from the answer he received, SE wants healing to matter significantly more, but not to the point where healers never get a chance to deal damage in groups or to a point where new players or new healers are overwhelmed.

Plus from this link to a transcript from a different interview (emphasis in bold added):

Q: On to the Healers, Scholar seems to have lost a lot of DPSing abilities, we feel like this will be an adjustment where opinions will vary a lot. Can you go into detail on what the thought process was while deciding on changes needed to balance the Healers?

Yoshida: We believe trying to heal as little as possible and DPSing instead isn’t what a Healers role should be, so we adjusted all 3 Healers to be more balanced while keeping their original characteristics alive. Content can be cleared on any of the Healers, but Scholar in particular had a much bigger toolkit for attacking and player feedback on Healers always focused on the ease or difficulty of putting out DPS numbers. This is why we wanted to precisely redefine the role a Healer has while balancing all 3 and then giving them characteristics through their attacks. A big part was that we sorted out the remainders you had as a Scholar from being an Arcanist first. Please try to look at the changes as us trying to balance Scholar as a Healer and not just trying to lower the DPS output of a Scholar.

---

Not a tank but I've also heard that tank sustain/healing using AoE in trash pulls is also nerfed somewhat, which would further give healers more to manage. I would defer to people with tanking experience to verify or expand on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yulja

Why do they think about "new players" instead of their playerbase?

---

I played for a little bit in 2016/17 but never came close to max level, and am recently back playing now, so I consider myself a newbie. And I'm not at all impressed with these changes (esp. to Scholar) and really agree with the concerns many of the longtime veteran healers are bringing up. So trust me, there's those among us noobs who are equally dumbfounded about these decisions. I certainly don't see the changes as making things "simpler" for us sprouts. I want complexity and intricacy in playstyle - it's what first attracted me to FF14, so these changes are hugely off-putting on paper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tinythinker

Not a tank but I've also heard that tank sustain/healing using AoE in trash pulls is also nerfed somewhat, which would further give healers more to manage. I would defer to people with tanking experience to verify or expand on this.

---

Warriors lost their Steel Cyclone regen and DRK's lost their Abyssal Drain sustain.

So yeah, tank sustain has definitely been nerfed. It wasn't needed in any content, but it was something nice to have.