War mains after seeing the skill trailer

How are you war mains feeling right now after seeing the show case? Because I feel disappointed, compared to PLD and DRK, it doesn’t look like we got much.

You guys had much on the long run, be happy for the fix for our Brothers! /tankfist

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Originally Posted by Brightmore

You guys had much on the long run, be happy for the fix for our Brothers! /tankfist

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The WAR skill trailer itself was not terribly impressive, but pretty much this. I'm 99.99% satisfied with the streamlining and glad we *presumably* will have 4 really badass and capable tank options. Like some of the other guys I just want to see more details on the abilities, see any % / CD / Duration / etc changes.

I'll take it with a grain of salt, but Yoshi did mention Warrior will still be the most powerful tank. :cheers:

I imagine what was shown in the trailer were really only 2? New skills, the TBN like shield and the axe twirl combo(?) for overpower that generates gauge. A few of them are just VFX updates to Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone, and funnily enough the old PVP Mythril Tempest skill.

Alot of classes that look like they didn't get much I'd wager are classes that really didn't need a rework and just got additional skills to their solid kit. War undoubtedly being one of them.

Let's just wait till 29th for the media tour embargo to lift and we will see the rest of WARs new kills. Feller Cleave rumors are most likely real at this rate as well.

I'll be appeased when I see the potency of the "bigger Fell Cleave".
Edit: Inner Chaos appeased me. Although, not a fan of the recycled animation.

We've had the benefit of being the top tank for the longest time so I'm happy to see the other tanks get some love.

We honestly don't need much past that targetable shield as a WAR being an OT in Stormblood is a waste of potential.

DRK looked "impressive" and like it got a bunch of new stuff because it basically got remade from the foundational job mechanic, Dark Arts being removed, up. Much of what was there was removed because it was found to be inadequate and then replaced with something else, not that DRK was given a bunch on top of what they already had.

PLD appears to have got about the same amount of "new and shiny" as WAR, they just happened to show more, for example the big sword thrusting out of the ground move.

WAR only appeared to have gotten "less" because they only mentioned and didn't show the big new ability that the job would be getting, WAR's "Feller Cleave". It also seemed to be implied that WAR was the tank job that was already in the best shape and closest to where the dev team wanted tanks in general to go and therefore required the least amount of reworking.

Simply the sheer amount of rework DRK needed made it look all new and shiny, while WAR appeared "samey" because it only really needed to evolve.

I'm satisfied with new AoE combo. WAR already pretty good right now, I don't see the need of drastically change it.

If there's something that didn't shown in trailer yet, anything is welcomed.

balance and potency aside, I'll just talk about visuals since job skills trailers are just a presentation of visuals trying to make you hyped for the new stuff coming.
some classes were kinda "meh" compared to others, what i mean is they either didn't receive new flashy things or they were not shown. warrior was one of them and since its my "main" job i was really disappointed. paladin did receive huge changes with sb, and those were kinda flashy,lvl 70 skill in particular. drk sb preview wasn't all that flashy,but the gauge skills still were new and looked cool. warrior sb.. well we had inner release looking awesome,multiple fell cleaves. overall all 3 received new flashy skills. so it was "balanced" from a visual standpoint.
now? paladin shb, 2 or 3 flashy new skills, looking really good. drk... do we need to say anything? it looks amazing, 2-3 new skills, new job gauge or an additional element to the already existing one. his own shadow is ofc the highlight. warrior... skill similar to tbn or just our new "shake it off version 3", 1 skill where he whirls the axe above his head.. that's it? everything else is already existing skills, and the axe whirl wasn't flashy... so yeah warrior either didn't receive any flashy toys or didn't level to 80 in the presentation.
gunblade.. well its new, some skills looked cool, but overall not much to say, but i have similar feeling like warrior, lack of "wow what an amazing skill" in their presentation. still 1 or 2 looked flashy.

yup disappointed about warrior and gunblade to a degree, hyped to test drk and a bit of pld.

about having 4 well balanced tanks, being glad about other tanks,being top tanks,having had lot in the past/until now: this has nothing to do with the thread which in my understanding discusses visuals seen from a trailer. we cannot judge balance or gameplay base of this trailer.. we don't have any tool tips, any info's on available actions nor did we had our hands on the jobs, so we can only talk about visuals at this point after seeing the trailer.

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Originally Posted by Maneesha

about having 4 well balanced tanks, being glad about other tanks,being top tanks,having had lot in the past/until now: this has nothing to do with the thread which in my understanding discusses visuals seen from a trailer. we cannot judge balance or gameplay base of this trailer.. we don't have any tool tips, any info's on available actions nor did we had our hands on the jobs, so we can only talk about visuals at this point after seeing the trailer.

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I mean, if that's how you feel.

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Originally Posted by gman1311

How are you war mains feeling right now after seeing the show case?

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Seems like a pretty open question.

I don't really know to be honest... I really need to see how things are going to play out.

I mean, as far as flashy skills, we didn't get anything. The coolest thing was the little fireballs twirling around us after the buff skill was used...

As far as gameplay is concerned... That AoE Gauge generator is HUGE. Makes actually using Gauge skills in AoE a thing outside of IR.

Beyond that... I'm slightly concerned.

Like, the trailers shows using Inner Beast + Steel Cyclone. While Fell Cleave and Devastate are also available. They all still cost 50 Gauge.

So... Why would we ever use Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone still? Even if we don't have to take a damage hit on our combo skills or use Unchained to access them, it won't stop us from simply losing potency over just using Fell Cleave/Devastate.

Outside of that we literally weren't show like anything new. It was just Storm's Path/Eye combos oh and like half the clip was IR + FC spam... Great... More fun and engaging gameplay where it revolves entirely around IR being the a huge percentage of our damage /s :rolleyes:

So, not only were we not shown any new cool moves, outside of an as yet undetermined "Buff" and a single AoE combo skill...

But we have no idea what's going on with a large number of our existing skills.

Like, we know Skull Sunder/Butcher's Block is being taken to the er... Butcher's Block. Along with other Tank Enmity combos.

What's happening with Maim now that Slashing Debuff is being removed?

What's happening with our stance? Are we keeping the crappy 0-10% Parry chance passive from Defiance or are we keeping the 0-10% Crit chance passive from Deliverance?

What's happening with Unchained? Since it's useless in its current implementation with a Tank stance with no penalties? Will this just be scrapped? Or will it be reworked into another DPS CD or something?

What's happening with Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone!?!? Why would we ever use these skills when they share resources for Fell Cleave/Devastate?

What's happening with Holmgang? Are we just going to have WAR being the undisputed MT's for the expansion because Holmgang is still so strong, now with the added bonus of ALL Tanks getting 20% DR and bonus health from a Trait now?

What's happening with Raw Intuition? Given the skill is kind of bad without Awareness, but Role Actions are being culled and we might not have the skill any more?

What's happening with Equilibrium? Is it just going to be a heal?

Is anything happening with Onslaught? Since Paladin is getting a Gap Closer that doesn't require any Gauge... Will WAR be the only tank whom needs to spend their Gauge on their gap closer? (Thus also has to plod slowly into battle...)

What's happening with Shake It Off? Are we still keeping this random AoE shield in our kit?

Like, everything seems to look like we're just losing a ton of skill and "Gaining" Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone... Which we'll never use still...

I dunno... At this point, it looks like WAR might continue to be the strongest Tank in the game, thanks to Holmgang, but might also become the most boring with gameplay which is exactly identical to the current gameplay, while every other Tank is getting a bunch of shiny new toys to play with...

I'll probably end up switching mains if this is the case... I don't care about being "Best" I want to play a FUN class...

Something I noticed that I haven’t seen anyone talk about is the sound.

Anyone notice that when the WAR used overpower and the new AoE after it, it made the sound of a drain? Are WARs AoE’s gonna have an in built bloodbath effect?

yes thats how i view it, from this trailer we cant judge balance, also there is no reason to get into discussions about it and what has been in the past, i view this kind of videos as a "hype" videos. to excite you for the new classes, to showcase new stuff coming. thats why i will only compare what we saw and can say i am disappointed with warrior presentation compared to the other already existing tanks and what was shown.
about balance we will be able to discuss this when we get 5.0 patch notes or more informations and when we gather experience with the jobs.

i can say similar thing about other jobs, bard,dancer,machinist. dancer is new, some stuff looks cool, others we cant judge since we have no practical experience with it, compared to machinist.. bard looks boring, even thou you can see they showed a few new skills. mnk,ninja,samurai? monk was bland, ninja looked the best, samurai was ok, some new skills look cool and 2nd midare.

so yeah, i find comments like who was top tank,who didn't get love(balance) kinda pointless, since we cannot judge this from a single vid. but we sure can talk about who got new exciting skills, which for warrior were not shown :(

Really not enough info for tanks. They spent the entire demo on gun (compared to dps that got lots of demo time), and a lot of broad stroke info that hits all tanks (stances, etc). Really all I have to go on is the mini trailers where drk got remade, pld looks flashy, war kinda uninspired. Before the war hate inevitably appears, I'm talking about new and flashy moves/animations. These trailers are designed to generate hype. Drk is mega ultimate hype train based on that vid. Pld is hype. Gun and war are really just kinda....'meh' excitement based on the stuff shown hype wise.

So we really just have more questions than answers on war as we saw very little that was new and did NOT see a lot of old things. So it's just an information void.

Not much hype, also not much info. Reserving judgement for more data.

I wish they went more in depth on what the new skills actually do but as a DRK main for the last 3 years, I'm content with what was shown. WAR has been in a good place for a long time, it looks like they didn't get too much but they also didn't explain much about the changes either.

Don't be selfish WAR mains, the other jobs need some love too.

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Originally Posted by Renato

Don't be selfish WAR mains, the other jobs need some love too.

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The cookies are mine!!! :)

im good during the live letter Yoshi said "War damage is still the best out of the 4 tanks", the buff we get when certain condition are met will give us a buff "WarCry" making our damage output better than any amount of FCleaves we throwout. plus i like the new animations for Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone, i dont think we can get something to go past a FCleave, unless we pull another Axe out.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Really not enough info for tanks. They spent the entire demo on gun (compared to dps that got lots of demo time), and a lot of broad stroke info that hits all tanks (stances, etc). Really all I have to go on is the mini trailers where drk got remade, pld looks flashy, war kinda uninspired. Before the war hate inevitably appears, I'm talking about new and flashy moves/animations. These trailers are designed to generate hype. Drk is mega ultimate hype train based on that vid. Pld is hype. Gun and war are really just kinda....'meh' excitement based on the stuff shown hype wise.

So we really just have more questions than answers on war as we saw very little that was new and did NOT see a lot of old things. So it's just an information void.

Not much hype, also not much info. Reserving judgement for more data.

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Yoshi talked about War after the job trailer, but the interrupter felt hesitate to talk on what Yoshi was saying to her, it like she lost her concentration and dabble off saying "that's very Japanese". You can hear Yoshi explaining the buff as he named it "War Cry", but we will see on the 29th when the gag order is dropped for content creators

about what they said, yes warrior is probably still in a good position, hard to judge since we cant play with the new skills yet. what they've shown warrior looked boring and like he didn't level up yet.
interessting strawpoll from reddit :
https://www.strawpoll.me/18046427/r
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._jobs_are_you/

so yeah, about flashiness and excitement this trailer showed i guess it's no surprise that war,brd & blm are at the bottom.

I feel as if this Feller Cleave nonsense will create yet another era of "Warrior is Strong" memes. lol.

PLD and DRK had a lot of new shininess to them, which does make a lot of sense since people seem to see them as inferior to WAR (Somehow). Playing a WAR myself, I feel more like a DPS than a Tank generally, except those few moments where I burn a few things to not be as squishy.

GNB looks interesting, can't wait to heal peeps running it and the other tanks. XD

WAR is in a good state right now in regards to how it mechanically performs its job. It plays smoothly, like butter.

Changes for the sake of "keeping up with the neighbors" isn't a good call, so the fact few changes were added is a smart decision. The very fact that WAR will remain the top dog for damage, along with its improved functions as an OT and the "war cry" that sounds like a buff to rDPS means WAR will remain undisputed as to where it fits in the meta. This pleases me.

Theres not nearly enough info to talk about the meta. They are changing the damage calculations, accessories, slashing debuff is gone, we dont know how all the tanks "support actions" compare, we dont know what each tanks dps output, we dont know what happened to all the actions for each tank they DIDNT show (SIO/RI/onslaught just for starters), we dont know how immunity skills will line up.

This is the tip of the iceberg for meta defining. We dont know jack shit to be making absurd meta claims.

War probably isn't head an shoulders for aggro anymore without unchained and all tanks having ezgg enmity stance. It doesnt have slashing debuff. Immunities are MIA info. The "extra" war defensive CDs may or may not still exist. Just because war still has the 'hardest hitting tank move' doesnt mean it's the highest dps tank.

There are galactic sized gaps in our information to even try to predict the meta. The only meta relevant items we actually KNOW of wars previouss strengths (aggro gen and slashing) are not there (unchained and slashing debuffs deleted from the game).

Meta tank crown is up for grabs until we have more detailed info on.....everything.

I mean, Yoshi said WAR would remain the highest DPS tank. What's there to doubt?

But really, WAR's meta relevent strengths were always its highest DPS followed by it's excellent suite of cooldowns. What we know to be confirmed is one part of the equation, leaving us to assume that the latter half remains untouched. Aggro gen and slashing are negligible.

I'm slowly approaching my 9th/10th fell cleave in a row.
They only showed 3 or 4 in the trailer? I'm not impressed.

Im hyped. Especially since there is still a high potency move that wasn't shown in the trailer that's stronger than Fell cleave, something like 900 potency but that's speculation until the embargo. Other than that I'm glad that most tanks are on par with us now. Every tank has a single target buff to self/party, and aoe party shield/heal and an aoe combo path.

only thing I give a remote damn about is a cosmetic change to the gauge that puts the crossed bravuras behind the beast horns

do that for us and I'll be a happy axe-slamming bastard

Hard to tell for sure, and it could just be that things aren't finalized, but Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone seem to lack the self-heal particle effects and sound effects. Similarly, Inner Beast doesn't appear to have the buff particle effects or sound effects anymore.

Infuriate, on the other hand, does looks to have the buff particle effects and sound effects, and both Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone (which had different particle effects) were used following Infuriate.

i just re-check reddit live translation and stuff and thats what i saw "The playing style doesn't change. A new buff will be applied when you use certain action and when you use Fell Cleave. So that will be your most powerful asset to utilize" they don't say WAR will be the most powerfull dps tank but that new mechanic will make WAR the most potency wise attack betwen the tanks withs doesn't translate to biggest dps, apart of being a silly declaration talking about balancing tanks and then claim WAR will the the most ungabunga bcs why not + utility.

all being said the nerf-bat would hit no matter what if 1 job just become mandatory and the other 3 fight for the other spot so don't ask for much.

Yes, people need to stop spreading the "most damage" misquote. They simply said war will still have the hardest hitting attack of the tanks. Not the most damage. Very different things.

Other things I noticed.

* infuriate was used 65 seconds apart. Doesnt mean anything for sure, but lower timer for using gauge "might" be gone. Or they just didnt take advantage of it in the trailer.

* IB costs 50 gauge. FC was only used under IR (locked? Or just unknown cost) Steel cyclone and decimate both were shown to cost 50.

I'm really concerned they backed themselves into a corner with gauge skills. If decimate and cyclone both cost 50, then you want to use the one with the most damage (probably decimate). If they are the same potency you want to heal/enmity from cyclone for free. If cyclone doesnt have the heal and they do the same damage why do we have 2 skills at all?

Same deal with IB and FC. Fc was only demo under IR. But assuming it has 50 gauge cost like the other 3 did, same conundrum. If damage is the same you want mitigation from ib free. If damage is higher we avoid IB and slot ourselves as "OT" because we loose dps mitigating. If they are the same damage with no mitigation, why have 2 skills?

I'm legit concerned about the gauge skills all being 50 gauge because it backs SE into a corner with making both skills viable at the same time without the defensive ones being lower dps making wars not want to use them. Hello 2 years if OT only if so.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Yes, people need to stop spreading the "most damage" misquote. They simply said war will still have the hardest hitting attack of the tanks. Not the most damage. Very different things.

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I also wonder will that be actually true?

Like, I'd class PLD's Goring Blade as the current "Hardest Hitting" Tank skill which deals 670 potency (837 with FoF)

It's gonna be interesting to see if they'll give WAR a skill that hits harder...

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Originally Posted by Izsha

* infuriate was used 65 seconds apart.

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No it wasn't.

The entire WAR clip doesn't even last 60 seconds.

It starts at 5:16 and ends at 6:01.

Infuriate is used at 5:17 and 5:56 - 39 seconds apart.

Given that Infuriate has a base CD of 60 seconds, this suggests that the CDR trait still exists. Either that, or it has a lower base CD.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

I'm legit concerned about the gauge skills all being 50 gauge because it backs SE into a corner with making both skills viable at the same time without the defensive ones being lower dps making wars not want to use them. Hello 2 years if OT only if so.

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Yeah... It's very concerning about how they have shown the skills. I don't think it'll mean WAR being OT only if we don't use IB/SC, unless they are nerfing out defensive CD's to the point where we'd have to rely on them. But it will suck being essentially 2 skills less than other jobs because we're designed with defunct skills...

Anyway, on another topic, I wanted to double check the skills that were used in the trailer:

Infuriate
Inner Beast (Costing 50 Gauge)
Defiance
Heavy Swing
Maim (Generating 10 Gauge)
Storm's Path (Generating 20 Gauge)
New "Buff" skill
Overpower
New AoE skill (Generating 20 Gauge)
Decimate
Inner Release
Fell Cleave
Fell Cleave
Fell Cleave
Fell Cleave
Infuriate
Steel Cyclone

So yeah, all of... 2 new skills...

As far as they go, Storm's Path continues to have a health return animation.

The "Buff" skill gives little fireballs that float around the WAR for 5 seconds (Which is when the buff fades)

Inner Beast doesn't appear to give a buff at all, there's no animation of one being given and unless it lasts 30+ seconds now, there's no sign of it falling off.

Steel Cyclone doesn't appear to restore health, as there's no animation for it doing so at all.

So...

At the moment, it kind of looks like they haven't done a sodding thing to WAR's except stick in those 2 new skills and nerf the only useful aspects of IB and SC...

It will be really useful to know about the actual skill changes, because it's really looking like WAR's are being given the short end of the stick.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Snip

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I doubt it, it looks like a few of the animations were revised. I think it is way too early to know what has happened to any of these skills until the 29th. Warrior's didn't have a lot shown, but that isn't a reason to panic. Warrior has always been in a great spot, and Yoshi P went out of his way to mention the strength of warrior. There are a few other sources floating around that suggest this: having the least number of skills removed as well as having some fairly had hitting skills added.

The only weakness warrior has had, which was minor and it's aoe kit, seems to have been addressed. And it looks like both Thrill and Equilibrium made the cut, meaning you still have access to a free heal which you don't even need to think about using.

With so much positive addressed it should be hard to be negative. Warrior's Kit is no more in question than dark knights.

What is happening with all of the dark arts effects we use to have on things like abyssal drain? Quietus appears to only be a guage spender with no effect on mp now from what we can hear, what effect does that have. Blood weapon appears to have been reworked along with delirium, has blood price been touched too? Other people are saying that sole survivor has been removed, are we getting something that replaces that self heal or are we relying only on soul eater to do this? Dark Knight got some flashy skills, but the animation locks on that shadow looks intense, it takes 6 seconds of 24 to summon a shade even when our character begins acting at 21 seconds of the cooldown?

We all have questions about our kits I think it is a bit early to be concerned about things which didn't appear in the trailer.

Whoops. Timestamps are hard at night. Scratch that about infuriate reduction as it still seems to be intact.

Of course every job is in flux. I'm not really concerned about war being 'strong or weak' as that is entirely a numbers game and based on info we dont have, and ultimately completely relative to the other 3 tanks which we also know very little about.

My only real concern at this point is how they the mirrored gauge skill can all be useful when they cost the same. Either they have different effects and 1 automatically wins (damage probably), or they are just reskins and then why have 2? If, for example, IB cost 30 gauge and did less damage than FC at 50 gauge, but still were the same DPS over time, then at least FC would be used under IR and leveraged for burst phases (trick attack etc), or swapped to manage gauge more efficiently at different points. But I am struggling to see how Se didnt box themselves in with IB/FC, SC/Dec will all cost 50 gauge.

Otherwise, I think war will be just fine. I wasnt expecting some massive rework for the tank that has been basically the same since 2.1. The unlocking of stance lock actions helps war more than the others, the aoe kit should help war/pld a lot. We wont know the defense capabilities until later, but simply unlocking IB makes war easier to balance defensively as I have long said. Shelltron getting buffed to resemble IB in duration confirms that for me. War is gonna be just fine. I just dont see a way out of the mirrored skills with same cost issue, but even if it isnt ideal, it wont be enough to break the job. Just an annoyance.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

My only real concern at this point is how they the mirrored gauge skill can all be useful when they cost the same. Either they have different effects and 1 automatically wins (damage probably), or they are just reskins and then why have 2? If, for example, IB cost 30 gauge and did less damage than FC at 50 gauge, but still were the same DPS over time, then at least FC would be used under IR and leveraged for burst phases (trick attack etc), or swapped to manage gauge more efficiently at different points. But I am struggling to see how Se didnt box themselves in with IB/FC, SC/Dec will all cost 50 gauge.

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I agree, there are still things to be addressed in our information. But that will just have to wait for Wednesday. I remember something about Fell Cleave giving warrior some sort of buff. I also wonder what is going to happen with all of the stance ignoring effects on warrior tank stance gauge skills, will they just be removed or are they being replaced? Again, we'll just have to wait till Wednesday.

Maybe they will go cray and have a synergy with IB and FC. Like: IB 300 pot. Fc 500. Using fc makes the next IB 500 pot so you can still use IB for tank busters without losing damage, but wont just spam IB for damage+mit and actually encourage using both in a fight.

I guess there are some ways out of the box with some creativity. Hopefully SE has some.

I haven't scrutinised the benchmark actions too closely, but going off of the action reveal, one solution to IB/FC would be for IB to upgrade to FC under IR. That way, outside of your window, it's a trade-off between "use gauge on IB as you get it for potency" vs. "holding off for a few GCDs to mitigate something" (which was always the most interesting part of IB).

There's a green circular "aura" which seems to appear when an ability heals you. I see it for Storm's Path, but I don't for IB or SC. The animation effects make it difficult to tell, though.

I'd be interested to know how Decimate and SC are differentiated in function.

I do not even remember what was the last time we complained about WAR.WAR was always reliable OP class.I do not think it is going to change with the Shadowbringers too.But as a future Gunbreaker main i want it to be changed .I think after all those shiny years that WAR had it will not be a selfish request .
As for the visuals,i agree it wasn't that satisfying.Actually, except the MCH all classes just had one shiny-cool looking ability, rest of them were pretty boring.

They will rework the tank stances. WAR will lose his 25% health increase and 20% heal-buff and will get the 20% damage reduction the other tanks have instead, right?

I wonder what this means for WARs cooldowns? Will they remain that powerfull with these short cooldown times? Or will they get nerfed to balance them around the passive 20% mitigation?

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Originally Posted by Tint

They will rework the tank stances. WAR will lose his 25% health increase and 20% heal-buff and will get the 20% damage reduction the other tanks have instead, right?

I wonder what this means for WARs cooldowns? Will they remain that powerfull with these short cooldown times? Or will they get nerfed to balance them around the passive 20% mitigation?

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You’re not getting any mitigation, tank stances are being reworked so they are purely for extra enmity. There’s no other benefits or drawbacks to turning it on or off.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

You’re not getting any mitigation, tank stances are being reworked so they are purely for extra enmity. There’s no other benefits or drawbacks to turning it on or off.

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All tanks will get a trait wich reduces incoming damage by 20%, regardless of stance.

The WAR trailer looked boring indeed, but apparently the skill that was used at the beginning was not Inner Beast but Inner Chaos which is our new 900 potency skill.
Also Warrior seems to be in a strong spot if the Inner Beast buff stays the same as now because we'll have an on demand tank CD when shit hits the fan and can use our other tank cds to mitigate other things.
We are not bound to tank stance anymore with our abilities so Equilibrium will mostlikely heal HP aswell now.

Infuriate also seems to have 2 charges now and also enhances our next Gauge attack.