Proposal to Improve the Hunt System / ハントシステムを改善するための提案

Despite the many differing opinions on the hunt system of FFXIV, it is clear that many believe it is a system in need of improvement.

With the addition of the world visit system, hunting has gained new obstacles as well.

In order to improve the hunt system for all players, I propose that the Final Fantasy XIV development team does some or all of the following.

Add a timer to hunts that begins when a hunt is found, clicked on, and confirmed by the finder.
The timer (about 5-10 minutes should be good, even for large map areas), would prevent anyone from engaging the hunt until it ends. When the timer does end, the hunt is free-for-all, and any player can attack.
A hunter confirming the hunt could also trigger a server wide (or data center wide) notification that automatically notifies players of the hunt. These notifications would appear only in a chat channel for hunts (like /say or /shout) and could be disabled and/or filtered out by players in their settings.
Thanks to the notifications and timer, all players would have ample opportunities to join in on hunts.
In addition, the difficulty of hunts could be increased, a level sync feature could be added, or a feature similar to scaling of battles for groups in Eureka could be added, so that more players have an opportunity to get a hit in before large groups kill the hunt too quickly.

FFXIVのハントシステムについての多くの異なる意見にもかかわらず、多くの人がそれが改善を必要としているシステムであると信じることは明らかです。

世界訪問システムが追加されたことで、狩猟もまた新たな障害を獲得しました。

すべてのプレイヤーのためのハントシステムを改善するために、私はFinal Fantasy XIV開発チームが以下のいくつかまたはすべてをすることを提案します。

ハントが発見され、クリックされ、そしてファインダーによって確認されたときに始まるハントにタイマーを追加します。
タイマー（大きな地図エリアでも、5〜10分程度はいいでしょう）は、誰かがそれを終了するまでハントするのを防ぐでしょう。タイマーが終了すると、ハントはすべて無料になり、どのプレイヤーも攻撃することができます。
ハントを確認するハンターは、自動的にハントをプレイヤーに通知するサーバー全体（またはデータセンター全体）の通知をトリガーする可能性があります。これらの通知は、（/ sayや/ shoutのような）狩り用のチャットチャンネルにのみ表示され、無効にされたり、設定によってプレイヤーによって除外されたりする可能性があります。
通知とタイマーのおかげで、すべてのプレイヤーは狩りに参加する十分な機会を得ることができます。
さらに、狩りの難易度を上げたり、レベル同期機能を追加したり、Eurekaのグループに対するバトルの拡大縮小に似た機能を追加したりすることで、より多くのプレーヤーが大きなグループの前にヒットする機会を得ることができます急いで狩りを殺してください。

Much of this is a good idea! With cross-world travel, we currently rely on outside websites to track hunts, and the pace has become increasingly quick, making it hard to track all hunts on multiple worlds. It would be great to track hunts in-game across a data center. I'm not quite sure how I feel about the "preventing people to pull until 5-10 minutes have passed from when the hunt is discovered," but a hunt chat channel notifying the world when a hunt has been discovered would be helpful.

The problem with not scaling mob health or making hunts invulnerable for a short period is that the hunts can be killed before other hunters can even arrive, even if they are immediately notified. On Crystal DC, we are having a problem with some hunters that immediately pull as soon as they are in range of an S rank, and they use a third party program to be immediately notified when the hunt is available. That leads to situations like one that I saw last night, where a group of hunters spawned Nuny and one of the group didn't even make it across the map to the spawn before it was dead because it was instantly pulled and killed.

Edited to add: I personally think that people who put in the effort to spawn a hunt, especially when the effort can be considerable (like Nuny) should be rewarded for their effort and allowed to get credit for their work.

I like the idea of a server wide notification on the chat box and the 5minute wait before anyone can engage. Hope SE reads it and implements it. Maybe add Peerless Hunt Clan Book as a possible drop as well lol.

I like the idea of a hunt timer and server wide notification. :D Especially if it's something that's able to be toggled on and off.

10 minutes would be a ridiculous amount of time to wait for a hunt to unlock.

Honestly... It sounds as though the Hunt System needs a complete rework.

Like, we're talking about things that are randomly found throughout a zone and spawn on extremely long timers (With S ranks being specifically spawned)

With the idea of trying to fix the issue of ninja-pulls before people from across the entire game can teleport to the zone to come and pick up their reward.

Since, literally, at this point, you may as well just give people their seals every 5-12 hours just for being logged into the game. Since that's what all the "Fixes" seem to try and cater for, things like global announcements and long grace periods to prevent ninja-pulls. It's all just designed to let anyone, irregardless of where they are in the game, find every single Hunt and then get there in time for their reward.

I'm sure there could be entirely different systems created that would you know... Make actually participating in Hunting something actually give the reward? Instead of turning the entire thing into a participation trophy because it doesn't matter where you're AFKing you can teleport and fly over to every Hunt like there isn't even a point to them being "Randomly" spawned...

The entire system does need a rework. As it stands, anyone could go and completely hunt every A rank in every server without letting anyone know it was killed. Most people use third party timers to keep track but even then, that system isn't perfect and most of the time, people kill without reporting anyways. It's always frustrating. The worst is when you find one, or spawn, you announce it, and then some random comes in a kills before most people even arrive :< Spend hours just for it to die in seconds.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

HSince, literally, at this point, you may as well just give people their seals every 5-12 hours just for being logged into the game. Since that's what all the "Fixes" seem to try and cater for, things like global announcements and long grace periods to prevent ninja-pulls. It's all just designed to let anyone, irregardless of where they are in the game, find every single Hunt and then get there in time for their reward.

I'm sure there could be entirely different systems created that would you know... Make actually participating in Hunting something actually give the reward? Instead of turning the entire thing into a participation trophy because it doesn't matter where you're AFKing you can teleport and fly over to every Hunt like there isn't even a point to them being "Randomly" spawned...

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Bless. This is always my biggest issue with most hunt “improvement” proposals here. Making annoyingly long timers and server announcements rewards everyone but the hunters.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Since, literally, at this point, you may as well just give people their seals every 5-12 hours just for being logged into the game. Since that's what all the "Fixes" seem to try and cater for, things like global announcements and long grace periods to prevent ninja-pulls. It's all just designed to let anyone, irregardless of where they are in the game, find every single Hunt and then get there in time for their reward.

I'm sure there could be entirely different systems created that would you know... Make actually participating in Hunting something actually give the reward? Instead of turning the entire thing into a participation trophy because it doesn't matter where you're AFKing you can teleport and fly over to every Hunt like there isn't even a point to them being "Randomly" spawned...

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I mean, hunts are and always have been a participation trophy. You do work, spawn hunt, or find it, and you get credit. It doesn't really take "skill" to kill them beyond amassing enough people there to kill the mob. I don't think anyone is proposing just giving out seals to people for being logged in - you don't have to go do hunts anymore than you have to do PvP to get Garo gear, fish to get titles, etc. But making it so that people who put in effort to spawn and locate hunts get credit seems like a fair goal, don't you think?

And another one lol. syyyyyyyyyync, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuf, invuuuuuuuuuuuuuln, braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains

No one has any issues with how B ranks are handled. Remove rewards and respawn cooldowns from S ranks, make them docile and/or have an NPC hand out random hunt bills for a cost. Literally everyone on every server could participate regardless of their schedule, servers don't suffer from everyone trying to cram into a zone, radar is rendered useless as there would be no competitive aspect and there would be no more toxicity.

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Originally Posted by lagniappe284

You're right, that really is the problem. Actual hunters don't get rewarded for their work, and many people want to join hunts just because they are the only way to get certain items (speed boost map, certain emotes, songs, etc)

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You're going to need to use the Reply With Quote button for people to see who you're replying to :c

A server wide hunt notification?
That doesn't sound like a good idea at all. That would VERY annoying, more so for people that don't care about hunting at all or are new players that are starting and don't even need hunts.

I noticed you also posted it in the JP forums as well. Gotta say they don't really have as many issues with the hunt system as westerners, so they may not see a change as being necessary. Not to say there shouldn't be, but the current problems have been created by individuals in the Western communities themselves, there will always be someone complaining about something when it comes to hunts.

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Originally Posted by lagniappe284

Add a timer to hunts that begins when a hunt is found, clicked on, and confirmed by the finder. The timer (about 5-10 minutes

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The number of hunts available to each of us just multiplied by 8. If you miss one, you have the same hunt available to you on about 7 other worlds.

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Originally Posted by lagniappe284

In addition, the difficulty of hunts could be increased, a level sync feature could be added, or a feature similar to scaling of battles for groups in Eureka could be added, so that more players have an opportunity to get a hit in before large groups kill the hunt too quickly.

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They already intend to make them FATEs sometime in 5.x, going by their answer at a Q&A at a recent fan fest. They don't have time until after 5.0 because they are understandably busy.

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Originally Posted by DecaflmeRonfaure

I mean, hunts are and always have been a participation trophy. You do work, spawn hunt, or find it, and you get credit.

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Well... You had to actually be in the zone to stumble across it. You have to actually spawn it to spawn it.

Meanwhile, what it's become is, someone ELSE stumbles across it/spawns it, then a Linkshell tells everyone, who then tells everyone in a plethora of zones, whom all instantly stop what they're doing, teleport in and zerg the dude.

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Originally Posted by DecaflmeRonfaure

I don't think anyone is proposing just giving out seals to people for being logged in - you don't have to go do hunts anymore than you have to do PvP to get Garo gear, fish to get titles, etc. But making it so that people who put in effort to spawn and locate hunts get credit seems like a fair goal, don't you think?

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Many people effectively are asking for seals for being logged in.

That's literally the idea behind all these "Make A/S Ranks invulnerable for X period of time after they spawn" (So that everyone has chance to teleport to the zone and fly over to it) and "Globally announce them being found" (Which is just having auto-joined to every Hunt Linkshell) and "Scale the mob to the number of players" (So when 400 people inevitably show up within 2 minutes the thing doesn't evaporate in 2 seconds)

That's not "Hunt". That's literally, show up, get an invite to a group and hope the group as a whole do enough damage in 2 skills to give you Gold participation. Literally a participation reward.

Meanwhile, the suggestions that people make about things such as making Hunts more like Leves, so that the party that spawned it is the only one that can fight it. Is geared more towards rewarding the people who put in the effort spawn and locate them.

The suggestions are still flawed, but not as flawed as making it so that literally anyone, even people who aren't "Hunters" can just easily show up and get their loot for what is supposed to be super rare and tough monsters...

/sigh

I defer to my signature for comment...


The sum of all hunt arguments over early pullers: http://goo.gl/IFT9IE

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Originally Posted by lagniappe284

It could be turned off. Really just a dedicated hunt channel would be nice. Could call hunts there instead of needing hunt LSs.

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Will never happen so no need to discuss it:
https://gamerescape.com/2019/01/04/y...-yoshi-p-walk/

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Q: In regards to Mob Hunt, with the current system and state and with the introduction of the World Teleportation system… Please make adjustments to the Hunts.

Yoshida: There might be some chaos in the beginning, but I think players will adjust by making their own rules. Of course, there will be cases when the mobs will be defeated stealthily, but the current closed state of the servers is not good in our opinion. We will keep watch and if the state becomes too severe, we will think of changes.

Q: Please make it so that the weather changes when S mobs pop.

Yoshida: We don’t want to make S mob pop’s more obvious than they currently are. I think it isn’t too suited for the game.

Q: There is a chance that third party websites for reporting defeat times will become useless, so can you do something in that regard; for example, have the servers notify us.

Yoshida: Please go to the forums in regards to the topic of Hunts. In my opinion, a game with defeat times announced is no longer a game.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Many people effectively are asking for seals for being logged in.

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But instead of asking for that, they suggest fixes that promote leeching while at the same time claiming they want more to be able to partake.

Another one voicing for a change. Having issues on Crystal with people from other servers coming in and pulling before people could reach the hunt. :/ we had a very patient and organized hunts until now. It's really saddening to see what it turned into.

Early pullers are hated, understandably so, but what about silent pullers? Those that find an A rank, and solo it without telling others. It's theoretically possible, and is a jerk move, but it never gets mentioned because nobody but the hunter knows it has happened :P there could be players from other servers silent killing, and the server would be none the wiser.

Honestly, spawn immunity will never happen. I think making S ranks a hidden FATE like Ixion/Odin with proper level sync would be a better option. With increasing gear level ARR/HW S ranks melt within 10-15 seconds if that and can be solo'd easy. Having them sync to their respective levels (ARR 50/ HW 60/ SB 70) at least makes hunters needing to be in a full party. This will also give other hunters attempting to spawn other S ranks time to get there to receive credit. It's ridiculous to have 80+ people running around S. Than to spawn Numi so they don't miss credit killing it when a light party can spawn it (work smarter not harder). Another trigger that can be added for S ranks with the start of World Visit is a Wanderer cannot spawn an S rank that hasn't spawn on their own world ( high pop vs low pop.) Wanderers are already restricted in some S rank spawning due to gathering nodes. Don't see why this couldn't be implemented. A ranks can be left as is since their isn't any special trigger that is needed to spawn them other than time. You miss the hunt, just wait a couple of hours for it to respawn.

Yoshida: There might be some chaos in the beginning, but I think players will adjust by making their own rules. Of course, there will be cases when the mobs will be defeated stealthily, but the current closed state of the servers is not good in our opinion. We will keep watch and if the state becomes too severe, we will think of changes. I don't agree with this simply because players can 'make rules' but what good are rules if nothing can be enforced? A server has a handful of people killing ARR S ranks after someone else spawns them 'World mob; I can do this and nothing can be done about it'. Can't tell players to make rules, but not give them any means of enforcing it other than "Scout's Honor".

Just my 2 gil on the subject.

Or just add 5-10 more intances per towns.

#DeleteHunts

I probably need like 20000 seals to get all the things I want out of hunts, and the last time I rode the hunt train I got maybe 200 seals in an hour.

Early pulling isn't the problem, it's a symptom. The problem is that hunts are a monotonous and unrewarding grindfest. If it wasn't such a slog people wouldn't feel like they absolutely have to be there before every pull.

Whoever spawned it should be the only person who can initiate attack. They own the mob per se. Would stop people from early pulling when they didn't even help spawn it.

If you don't want to miss S ranks, why not help spawn them? If you missed it because you're waiting till others do and notify you, then you only have yourself to blame. Only thing you can do to early pullers is black list them and remove them from hunt link shells.

The novelty of cross-world hunting has worn off extremely quickly for me.

Sure, I get more S ranks overall, but I don't think it was worth the hunt communities of each server breaking down into a big, disorganized mess as the relay networks being so huge coupled with the prevalence of people using sniffer programs almost guarantees that you'll have people from other servers pouring in within a minute of anything spawning ,which on several occasions has led to the hunts getting melted before their server was even aware they existed.

I honestly think they should make it so you can only get credit for a given S rank once every 24 hours and that you're simply not able to even interact with a given hunt anymore until the reset.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Another one voicing for a change. Having issues on Crystal with people from other servers coming in and pulling before people could reach the hunt. :/ we had a very patient and organized hunts until now. It's really saddening to see what it turned into.

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But why can't they make it? Normally you first let you party know so that they can teleport quicker. If they choose longer route, it is their own fault.

Of course, I do not say it is alright to pull as soon as you arrive. Pulling should be spawners/finders prerogative.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

But why can't they make it? Normally you first let you party know so that they can teleport quicker. If they choose longer route, it is their own fault.

Of course, I do not say it is alright to pull as soon as you arrive. Pulling should be spawners/finders prerogative.

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Here is the thing, I had this happen to me four times in a roll since Crystal became a thing. Three of these times I said, ok maybe I took longer route. Every time I teleported as soon as I got the location in my respective linkshells. Some were indeed on a bit of a walk/flight and even then I wasn't even half way through the route before they got killed. Yesterday the hunt was right outside quarrymill, I teleported as soon as the location was given, dead by the time I even stepped on the map and I can assure you I'm not playing on a potato computer. This was my final straw that made me post here. I'm not a hardcore hunter, it's not something that'd make me rage quit or flip tables, but I enjoy them a lot as a content. I'm ok missing on some but I've always appreciated how patient and organized they've been on my server. Until now. Now it's not a content I enjoy anymore.

The thing with linkshells is you never know when someone will report a hunt that was already pulled. I've seen people do that. Also sometime people just repost hunts too late.

When I want to hunt, I join a hunt train or start my own and search for hunts myself.

To put it more simple, I think if the hunt gets a timed "invincibility" buff at spawn, and we can see how much time left, that is sufficient.

My biggest desire as someone who does work on spawning S ranks is for there to be a zone wide roar or taunt by the S rank when it spawns so the people working to spawn it know they have succeeded. With how big some of the zones are it is entirely possible for an S rank to be spawned and have it die before the people working to spawn it know just due to the players with the programs that tell them when and where it spawns. I just want that advantage taken away so a person who is not using a 3rd party program is not at such a severe disadvantage to simply knowing that the S has shown up.

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Originally Posted by DarkGrunt

I think making S ranks a hidden FATE like Ixion/Odin with proper level sync would be a better option.

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If you make it hidden, radar users have an advantage. If you make it show on the map, everyone has radar and can just AFK until the hunt is spawned by someone else. What's the point of making it hidden to begin with?

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Originally Posted by DarkGrunt

This will also give other hunters attempting to spawn other S ranks time to get there to receive credit.

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That's not how the system is supposed to work. You want more people to be able to access more S ranks, but you're proposing a workaround for the current system instead of just proposing a new system altogether.

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Originally Posted by DarkGrunt

A ranks can be left as is since their isn't any special trigger that is needed to spawn them other than time. You miss the hunt, just wait a couple of hours for it to respawn.

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So why not suggest reduced cooldowns and no triggers for S ranks?

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Early pulling isn't the problem, it's a symptom. The problem is that hunts are a monotonous and unrewarding grindfest. If it wasn't such a slog people wouldn't feel like they absolutely have to be there before every pull.

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SE exacerbated the situation by adding the mount and the very grindy additional hunt achievements several years after the game released.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Whoever spawned it should be the only person who can initiate attack. They own the mob per se. Would stop people from early pulling when they didn't even help spawn it.

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So the player that killed mob #150 for Leucrotta owns it but the player that killed the other 149 gets nothing? You can stop most early pulling already by not telling anyone else about the spawn.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Every time I teleported as soon as I got the location in my respective linkshells.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

but I enjoy them a lot as a content.

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lol

I said this is another group but I feel like Hunts should work similar to Ixion. Where the hunt is invul and an item has to be used to allow the hunt to be attacked and have it be fair.

In the case of spawners why not give the person that spawns it an item that has to be used to break the invul on the hunt? That way they can decide the course of when it should be attacked and give enough time for shoutouts?

It's tough planning backwards for ARR-SB but I could see a system like this working with ShB as World Visit it now a planned feature with it.

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Originally Posted by Noitems

Where the hunt is invul and an item has to be used to allow the hunt to be attacked and have it be fair.

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When we say "have it be fair", to whom exactly? The people waiting for others to do all the work to spawn S ranks and they just teleport there? Hunts were not designed to be done like that and were not meant to be a fair game in the first place. Have you ever wondered why they don't punish early pullers and say "it's working as intended"? Waiting is just a rule made by the players. So SE won't force that rule on others that don't follow it.

Ixion and other FATE bosses spawn on their own, have a timer to their FATE, requires a lot of players to deal with and also have signs that they appeared when the weather changes. These are clearly signs that these FATEs are made for a big player base in mind.

When you look at hunts, the majority of them requires you to spawn them, they don't have a timer on them so a group of 8 won't worry about a timer running out. And regarding the weather, Yoshi P said this

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Q: Please make it so that the weather changes when S mobs pop.

Yoshida: We don’t want to make S mob pop’s more obvious than they currently are. I think it isn’t too suited for the game.

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Edit: Here's also what Yoshi P said regarding cross world hunts

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Q: In regards to Mob Hunt, with the current system and state and with the introduction of the World Teleportation system… Please make adjustments to the Hunts.

Yoshida: There might be some chaos in the beginning, but I think players will adjust by making their own rules. Of course, there will be cases when the mobs will be defeated stealthily, but the current closed state of the servers is not good in our opinion. We will keep watch and if the state becomes too severe, we will think of changes.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

If you make it hidden, radar users have an advantage. If you make it show on the map, everyone has radar and can just AFK until the hunt is spawned by someone else. What's the point of making it hidden to begin with?


That's not how the system is supposed to work. You want more people to be able to access more S ranks, but you're proposing a workaround for the current system instead of just proposing a new system altogether.


So why not suggest reduced cooldowns and no triggers for S ranks?

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The only reason of making them 'hidden FATEs' would be to have a level sync for that hunt. There's already people who afk and/or have radar doing exactly what you're talking about and plus S ranks can already been seen anywhere on the map so any HW/SB hunts can be spotted easily. Generally, hunt communities work together and it's nice, but not required, to give hunters who are actually hunting, time to get credit for a S rank. If they decide to reduced CD and removed triggers I'd be okay with that as well. Let's face it Pale Rider, Agrippa, and Senmurv are by far have the most annoying triggers to spawn imo

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Originally Posted by lagniappe284

Add a timer to hunts that begins when a hunt is found, clicked on, and confirmed by the finder.
The timer (about 5-10 minutes should be good, even for large map areas), would prevent anyone from engaging the hunt until it ends. When the timer does end, the hunt is free-for-all, and any player can attack.

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Measure(s) to help protect those spawning S-Ranks thus allowing them time to engage the hunt should be implemented. Though, if the spawner already found their mark I don't see a reason for a timer to be implemented. Perhaps a timer could be used for when the mark *spawns* rather than when it is found. That way, the spawner has time to find the mark before someone idly waiting around snipes it.

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Originally Posted by lagniappe284

A hunter confirming the hunt could also trigger a server wide (or data center wide) notification that automatically notifies players of the hunt.

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I disagree with this. If the S-Rank spawner wants to invite friends to help with a hunt, that's fine. However, the entire world shouldn't receive a free-ride on account of the spawner's hard work.