White-Mage - Geomancy Gauge

Lily Gauge deleted

Geomancy Gauge - Generates Sage mp by tapping deeper and burrowing energy from world around them releash hidden abilities this further installs the fact white mage is a battle healer. damage abilities with support attached them

Aero II - Twister
Aero III- Tornado
Regen - Revitalize
Cure II - Cure IV
Stone - Quake (boom)
Water - Flood
Medica - ((changed ot current lvl70 ability))
Holy - Holy 2

Support the battle-healer what these abilities do.. i dont know anything come up with op. but hey if want take crack at it go ahead

I'm gonna say no, partially because GEO is already made out to be an AST equivalent, and also because I am still rooting for a GEO tank.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I'm gonna say no, partially because GEO is already made out to be an AST equivalent, and also because I am still rooting for a GEO tank.

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Actually, I think the GEOs in the AST quests are very much a far eastern version of white mages. All their magic revolves around wind, earth, and water. That's the same exact skill set as a conjurer so I don't think it'd be out of place thematically at all.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I'm gonna say no, partially because GEO is already made out to be an AST equivalent, and also because I am still rooting for a GEO tank.

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honestly don't know what your talkin about cause white-mages in this are geomancers only thing have thats remotely simular to the other white mages from other games. is name of their spells and name of their job. and i can show proof of this. by pulling spells from other games that belonged to geomancer. that are used in this game as the "white mage" classic white mages have a-lot status effects and debuffing support like abilities.

white mages in this game support elements of wind,stone and water watch are extremely druid and geomancer like whms are not priests. I mean come on we get are class stone form big bloody tree.

This kinda reminds me how dev team and most of community have this notion that healer should be primary a caster. who does nothing else but buff and heal all the time. shouldn't need or have any type of dps .

cant come up with any other ideas of how a healer job can heal or utility . sometimes need stop being stubborn stop thinking how a healer should be played instead thinking bout how they can be played. dps has been apart of healers kit for a long time. those healers that don't like concept of having to dps as a healer. should find another job to play. cause your letting your team down. not contributing your just sitting their waiting for tank to take damage. and not giving it your all. playin your job at 50% and letting your team down.

Learn to dps as a healer. its important. leaning towards battle-healer is right direction for white-mage. cause they have enough healing anymore new healing spells will make white-mage completely busted. and unnecessary other then a "New Cure Spell" cause its a white mage. i come up with ideas op or not their new exciting and fun. this constant need to keep giving healers boring competitive skills needs to stop. we need something new exciting fresh added to are kit. not same old spell with new animation. actually do something solid.

if astra buffs with cards. I feel that as white-mage we should debuff with damage spells powerful status effects "Paralyze" . adding that exciting identity that different then scholar and astra. this also mean that white- mage gear sets would be completely totally different then scholars and astras so be it

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

honestly don't know what your talkin about cause white-mages in this are geomancers only thing have thats remotely simular to the other white mages from other games. is name of their spells and name of their job. and i can show proof of this. by pulling spells from other games that belonged to geomancer. that are used in this game as the "white mage" classic white mages have a-lot status effects and debuffing support like abilities.

white mages in this game support elements of wind,stone and water watch are extremely druid and geomancer like whms are not priests. I mean come on we get are class stone form big bloody tree.

This kinda reminds me how dev team and most of community have this notion that healer should be primary a caster. who does nothing else but buff and heal all the time. shouldn't need or have any type of dps .

cant come up with any other ideas of how a job can heal. sometimes need stop stubborn think outside your box. dps has been apart of healers kit for a long time. those healers that dont like concept of having to dps or throwing dot randomly on a boss. honestly should play another job. cause their not clearly give it their l and their letting their team down.

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The 60-70 AST quests blatantly say that Geomancer and Astrologian are basically the same job, that is what they are referring to

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Originally Posted by lordcruxis

The 60-70 AST quests blatantly say that Geomancer and Astrologian are basically the same job, that is what they are referring to

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I think the comparison those quests were trying to make is just that both jobs use aspects of nature to make predictions and manipulate fate, making them the similar in that respect. Astro uses the sky and geo uses the earth, but the actual application is completely different. All the npc geos use conjurer abilities, nothing at all resembling the magic astro uses.

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Originally Posted by lordcruxis

The 60-70 AST quests blatantly say that Geomancer and Astrologian are basically the same job, that is what they are referring to

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conjurers also use the earth. sure your not blinded that alot of astra and white mages abilities are very simular . it makes sense conjurers/white-mages are far eastern geomancers. and fact geomancers used white-mages spells. when actually see them have nothing the same too ast other then their abilitys to read the earth and stars

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

conjurers also use the earth. sure your not blinded that alot of astra and white mages abilities are very simular . it makes sense conjurers/white-mages are far eastern geomancers. and fact geomancers used white-mages spells. when actually see them have nothing the same too ast other then their abilitys to read the earth and stars

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CNJ don't use the earth, they use the elementals, something that isn't shown as much in 2.x and beyond, but was a big part of 1.x. White Magic however is it's own separate thing. And as for a lot of AST and WHM abilities, and SCH too honestly, being similar, that's just because they all share the same roll. You can't look at the move set of one job currently in game or a move set from another job currently not in game and make them out to be basically the same. The Geomancers that have been seen in the series are nothing like the ones presented to us in FFXIV. Usually they use the terrain to create a vast array of spells, using bells as their weapon. Plus they are more sturdy compared to other mage-like jobs. The lore we are given in the AST quests as well as how they have been presented in the series, specifically in Explorers, is why I feel making them a Tank would work really well. But while I still can hope, we probably wont see a new tank for another 4 years, if at all.

Also what spells do WHM have that are usually given to GEO. Basically every spell they have is traditional WHM spell.

we already seen Geomancers use environmental attacks in the Swallow Compass so I don't get where people are getting the idea that there are going to be just like conjurer's from.

Isn't flood and quake forbidden magicks. Why are people liking the idea of getting forbidden magicks such as ultimate, quake, flood, etc there forbidden for a reason. The dev team ain't gonna magically give us these without changing the lore.

Geomancers use elements but not limited to "white magic" (Aero, Stone and Water), they can use fire magic too. It is closer to conjury than AST imo, because the AST questline is more about how AST read in the stars and how Geomancers read in The Star (Hydealyn) through its manifestations (elements). It's a thin line.

White Mages going to Othard in 5.0 and learning about Geomancy would be really interesting I think.

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Originally Posted by lordcruxis

The 60-70 AST quests blatantly say that Geomancer and Astrologian are basically the same job, that is what they are referring to

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This is correct.

I think the Geomancers use of Wind/Earth/Water is a red herring. Lots of jobs use lots of elements. Ninjutsu is elemental themed, even AST's cards are elemental themed (Balance is Fire, Bole is Earth, Arrow is Wind, Spear is Ice, Ewer is Water and Spire is Lightning)

The main defining aspect of Geomancy, is that it calls upon the aether of the star below, while Astromancy calls upon the aether of the stars above.

White Magic alternatively, has nothing to do with stars or planets, but rather the elements and the elementals, beings of pure aether. It is more connected to the mages personal aether much like the Black Mage, than it is the 'star below' or the ground.

why has been a elementalist since lvl 1.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

why has been a elementalist since lvl 1.

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cause conjurer sounds cooler

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Geomancers use elements but not limited to "white magic" (Aero, Stone and Water), they can use fire magic too.

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I might be remembering incorrectly, but in 1.0, the distinction between white and black magic wasn't element type (as it is in 2.0) but element aspect (astral for WHM and umbral for BLM), and both classes could use all elements. Gameplay-wise it was probably changed to give the classes more uniqueness, so I'm not sure what parts of that lore got carried over.
It's fair to say GEO is rooted in basic conjury, but their purpose as a job seems closer to AST. That said, I would love more CNJ/GEO theme added back into WHM and would wholehearted support learning things in Othard.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

White Magic alternatively, has nothing to do with stars or planets, but rather the elements and the elementals, beings of pure aether. It is more connected to the mages personal aether much like the Black Mage, than it is the 'star below' or the ground.

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White Magic, and Conjury, do not use personal aether in a majority of cases, it is very dangerous to do so and this is highlighted in some of the early CNJ quests with Sylphie. Black Magic is much the same from what I recall. As far as dealing with the elementals, I'd say yes and no. They are a large presence in the quests, but they only (zealously) guard the knowledge of how to practice white magic after it was lost in the 6th Umbral Calamity, not dole out the aether themselves. Frankly after our character learned it we could have peaced out right then, but we still needed some training and the Padjal + elementals are a package deal due to their treaty.

This does make me wonder what classes do rely on personal aether, it seems most casting classes have to rely on something else to power their spells or risk dying.

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Originally Posted by Reivya

I might be remembering incorrectly, but in 1.0, the distinction between white and black magic wasn't element type (as it is in 2.0) but element aspect (astral for WHM and umbral for BLM), and both classes could use all elements. Gameplay-wise it was probably changed to give the classes more uniqueness, so I'm not sure what parts of that lore got carried over.
It's fair to say GEO is rooted in basic conjury, but their purpose as a job seems closer to AST. That said, I would love more CNJ/GEO theme added back into WHM and would wholehearted support learning things in Othard.



White Magic, and Conjury, do not use personal aether in a majority of cases, it is very dangerous to do so and this is highlighted in some of the early CNJ quests with Sylphie. Black Magic is much the same from what I recall. As far as dealing with the elementals, I'd say yes and no. They are a large presence in the quests, but they only (zealously) guard the knowledge of how to practice white magic after it was lost in the 6th Umbral Calamity, not dole out the aether themselves. Frankly after our character learned it we could have peaced out right then, but we still needed some training and the Padjal + elementals are a package deal due to their treaty.

This does make me wonder what classes do rely on personal aether, it seems most casting classes have to rely on something else to power their spells or risk dying.

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I believe that is exclusively RDM, and they even address how dangerous it is.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I'm gonna say no, partially because GEO is already made out to be an AST equivalent, and also because I am still rooting for a GEO tank.

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Easy: change the name to Conjury Gauge and the rest remain the same.

It's crazy how that one throwaway line in an AST quest completely blinded people to the actual point that was being made. As said above, the only similarity is pulling from "the stars" and "the star" (the one we're on). While you can make the argument that WHM is elemental based, I feel like it's a really far stretch to say the WHM could not have GEO incorporated into at all, especially when the whole point of new class quests is that you're learning something new. While I personally just want to see GEO in the game period, I would gladly take it as an evolution of WHM rather than have nothing at all.

In a perfect world though, GEO would be it's own healer and WHM would be straight-up Ishgardian clerics and ditch the tree hugger gimmick.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

It's crazy how that one throwaway line in an AST quest completely blinded people to the actual point that was being made. As said above, the only similarity is pulling from "the stars" and "the star" (the one we're on). While you can make the argument that WHM is elemental based, I feel like it's a really far stretch to say the WHM could not have GEO incorporated into at all, especially when the whole point of new class quests is that you're learning something new. While I personally just want to see GEO in the game period, I would gladly take it as an evolution of WHM rather than have nothing at all.

In a perfect world though, GEO would be it's own healer and WHM would be straight-up Ishgardian clerics and ditch the tree hugger gimmick.

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Actually, even though we know FFXIV does not like it, they could get away with Conjurer branching into White Mage or Geomancer once you choose your job. They could build up a "travel to Othard" quest, and you'd learn Geomancy based on the similarities with Conjury. Geomancy would allow you to use Fire and Ice spells I believe, so it could be thematically separate from White Mage, add in it a few "fate reading" things in the kit and you're done.
I-forgot-his-name uses conjurer animations when he casts spells with his bell. It's really not that far fetched. :)

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

Lily Gauge deleted

Geomancy Gauge - Generates Sage mp by tapping deeper and burrowing energy from world around them releash hidden abilities this further installs the fact white mage is a battle healer. damage abilities with support attached them

Aero II - Twister
Aero III- Tornado
Regen - Revitalize
Cure II - Cure IV
Stone - Quake (boom)
Water - Flood
Medica - ((changed ot current lvl70 ability))
Holy - Holy 2

Support the battle-healer what these abilities do.. i dont know anything come up with op. but hey if want take crack at it go ahead

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Yeah sure, let's just delete a whole mechanic the team spend time working on and replace it completely with something more suited for a Black Mage.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

It's crazy how that one throwaway line in an AST quest completely blinded people to the actual point that was being made. As said above, the only similarity is pulling from "the stars" and "the star" (the one we're on). While you can make the argument that WHM is elemental based, I feel like it's a really far stretch to say the WHM could not have GEO incorporated into at all, especially when the whole point of new class quests is that you're learning something new. While I personally just want to see GEO in the game period, I would gladly take it as an evolution of WHM rather than have nothing at all.

In a perfect world though, GEO would be it's own healer and WHM would be straight-up Ishgardian clerics and ditch the tree hugger gimmick.

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Yes please. Bit tired of comforting trees because they broke a branch or something.
And WHM already has so much cleric-themed stuff (Bene, Holy aka epilepsy aoe, Protect, Divine Benison, Asylum, "Confession" stacks, Cleric Stance etc) that the whole tree hugger thing feels more like a leftover from CNJ that was kept because they didn't dare to change the class theme after going from CNJ to WHM. The first class set was even named "Cleric's XY", not to mention the whole "strong will/ mind influencing" thing that's frequently part of the WHM story and is typical for clerics.

And the similarities between GEO and CNJ are undeniable, so I'd love to see it as a possible route after hitting 30. CNJ already draws from the land, GEO basically takes it one step further and draws deeper from the star below your feet with the addition of a more destructive element.
I think the main difference between CNJ and GEO is HOW they gain their knowledge. CNJ has to pat trees and be nice to the elementals because they don't dole out the knowledge to just anyone but once you acquired it, you can build it up and extend it via GEO route. CNJ is fairly balanced between offensive and defensive abilities (lore-wise), so WHM would be the more defensive/ healing-focused route while GEO would be the more offensive-focused route.
I see no reason to not have GEO as a seperate class just because we have AST.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Yeah sure, let's just delete a whole mechanic the team spend time working on and replace it completely with something more suited for a Black Mage.

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I cant't believe they spent much time at all working on the Lily system. it's barely consequential at all and works counter to basic healing practice.
The most work that went into it was in designing the gauge graphic. It was only tagged on as an afterthought because "every job has to have a gauge."

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

In a perfect world though, GEO would be it's own healer and WHM would be straight-up Ishgardian clerics and ditch the tree hugger gimmick.

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In a perfect world, White Mages action names would lose its religious conotation (for example, Benediction is now Full-Cure, Divine Benison is now Shell, Plenary Indulgence is now Aethereal Recovery, Confession stacks is now Aether Nodes, Holy continues how it is, just being the counterpart of BLM's Foul) and end up that Priest bullshit once for all.

All ishgardian priest were Paladins. Their shields carry their house crest, which is very important in an aristocratic society like Ishgard's. Replacing Paladins for White Mages just for the sake of having a priest-y healer would make more damage to the lore than just renaming all actions that makes reference to religion to a neutral names because S-E will have to change the Heavensward lore, all the White Mage class quests, a good chunk of Gridania lore, every bit of the war of the magi (being a priest, WHM wouldn't be in the frontline) and so on.

That may sound easy, but I'm speaking about remake bosses (Thordan should be remade to be a WHM, not a PLD), including model, balance, etc., redo entire quest lines, redo NPCs (for example, if WHM is no longer a tree-hugger, Kan-E-Senna should be from another discipline, what impact will make S-E redo even the cinematics where she appears), review dungeons etc. Just for the sake of having a White Priest in the place of a White Mage. By the lore, WHM should be more a Shaman than a Cleric.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

In a perfect world, White Mages action names would lose its religious conotation (for example, Benediction is now Full-Cure, Divine Benison is now Shell, Plenary Indulgence is now Aethereal Recovery, Confession stacks is now Aether Nodes, Holy continues how it is, just being the counterpart of BLM's Foul) and end up that Priest bullshit once for all.

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Echoing this, but I'm mostly just tired of the priest theme that popped up out of nowhere why? Because 'WHM were priesty in other games'? I liked CNJ's theme. It's one of the major reasons I would love GEO to added to the game.

I think in general a fair few people are over whm just being cnj+ and would like to see more of the divine magic that the amdapori used

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

All ishgardian priest were Paladins. Their shields carry their house crest, which is very important in an aristocratic society like Ishgard's. Replacing Paladins for White Mages just for the sake of having a priest-y healer would make more damage to the lore than just renaming all actions that makes reference to religion to a neutral names because S-E will have to change the Heavensward lore, all the White Mage class quests, a good chunk of Gridania lore, every bit of the war of the magi (being a priest, WHM wouldn't be in the frontline) and so on.

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Yeah man, that's why I used a hypothetical situation in which white mages were never tree huggers. Everything about Ishgardians having to be paladins could have easily been changed if WHM was built up as a cleric to start. As far as fighting on the front lines, I specifically recall caving in heads and smiting evil as a holy cleric. They would fit in perfectly with Ishgard's theocracy.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Yeah sure, let's just delete a whole mechanic the team spend time working on and replace it completely with something more suited for a Black Mage.

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To be fair whm gauge is a joke and is only of use if you play WHM sub optimally. So yeah, said get rid of it and also the 68 trait while they are at it.

I find it amusing that there are complaints about WHM being priest-y when CNJ are pretty much the priests of Gridanian society; being the ones who exist between the common folk and the supernatural.

The flavor of their priestiness is suspect, I agree though.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

I find it amusing that there are complaints about WHM being priest-y when CNJ are pretty much the priests of Gridanian society; being the ones who exist between the common folk and the supernatural.

The flavor of their priestiness is suspect, I agree though.

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If compared to D&D classes, Conjurers and White Mages is more like druids or shamans than clerics.

Druids are priests devoted to protect the nature. They have a strong link with nature itself (or the elementals, in WHM's case), being able to fuse itself with it. Druids normally worship nature gods, not the christian one. The padjals lore shows well how White Mage is close to druids. White Mages is also close to shamans, who is mages that can speak with nature spirits and control elemental forces. Shamans worship nature gods as well, not the christian one.

For me, White Mage is a mix between Druid and Shaman, without a single cleric element into it.

What some players wants is to force a cleric theme (aka, the classic healer priest, think on RO's priest/high priest/arch bishop) into white mage, using some actions names as a argument.