Red Mage Rumor Mill

While I was in Eureka today, someone mentioned that "they are taking away veraise in Shadowbringers" and that they got it from some Japanese source. Shortly after, someone in my FC said that same thing. I've been searching and not finding anything on this.

Anyone know where this rumor started?

I heard a rumour from this guy that I know, who knows a guy that is the uncle of a guy and he said that in Shadowbringers they'll be removing all magic from the game.

It's a rumour, just ignore it.

My uncle works at square enix and told me they're deleting mnk, shh don't tell anyone.

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Originally Posted by ChaseNetwork

Anyone know where this rumor started?

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It all started when a RDM refused to raise and said "you don't pay my sub".

The Earth is flat.

I heard from a friend who heard from a friend who heard from another friend who heard from a japanese friend who heard from his friend that they are increasing the mp cost for raise in the next expansion. But I dont believe anything until its in the patch notes.

Sounds unsubstantiated, but that is how rumors generally gain momentum: by word of mouth.

I don't buy it.

Well after seeing 2 different rdms in Eureka hard cast raise on me. I wouldn't blame them if they decided to remove it.

But ofc whoever said that to you is full of shit cause SE isn't going to remove ver-raise. That's like someone claiming SE will take away fire spell from a black mage. It ain't happening.

Removing Verraise seems like a terrible idea...


But MMOs are by no means afraid of going forward with bad ideas.

It would be amusing to see what would happen if everyone that wasn't a healer lost raise.

And then Bard got raise. Just as a little bit of salt in the wound.

I doubt that they'll remove verraise. They'll probably remove Tether cause it's a waste of a spell and no RDM ever uses it. They need RDM to have a DoT spell to replace w/ Tether, that's what RDM need.

I don't see them removing Verraise, taking it off of the double cast list.. maybe, but I don't see outright removal happening.

Should remove it same with SMN

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Originally Posted by Osmond

I doubt that they'll remove verraise. They'll probably remove Tether cause it's a waste of a spell and no RDM ever uses it. They need RDM to have a DoT spell to replace w/ Tether, that's what RDM need.

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Why does RDM need that though? What need does it fill that the job has and how does it interact with any other part of the job's kit (other than maybe you could snapshot buffs onto it)?
I really don't understand this idea (and this post is far from the first time I've seen it) that every job should have a DoT "because DoTs". SE removed all the cookie-cutter press-button-for-DoT skills (Mutilate, Phlebotomise, Lead Shot, Touch of Death, Scourge, Fracture) from the DPS and tanks at the start of Stormblood and IMO it was a good change. Compared to a job like BRD where the DoTs are deeply integrated into the job's kit, those skills just feel tacked-on and uninteractive - buttons that just exist in the kit without really adding to it.

Honestly being able to raise people quickly has saved a lot of parties with red mages in them, but since I also play red mage, I have to say there's a point where it does get annoying when a group has no idea what they're doing. I wouldn't miss that spell so much, but I wish we had our own version of Esuna we could cast on ourselves to remove more status effects than just Erase. Verthunder could easily be a DoT spell, though I'm also hoping we eventually get Verblizzard and Dia-like spells.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Why does RDM need that though? What need does it fill that the job has and how does it interact with any other part of the job's kit (other than maybe you could snapshot buffs onto it)?
I really don't understand this idea (and this post is far from the first time I've seen it) that every job should have a DoT "because DoTs". SE removed all the cookie-cutter press-button-for-DoT skills (Mutilate, Phlebotomise, Lead Shot, Touch of Death, Scourge, Fracture) from the DPS and tanks at the start of Stormblood and IMO it was a good change. Compared to a job like BRD where the DoTs are deeply integrated into the job's kit, those skills just feel tacked-on and uninteractive - buttons that just exist in the kit without really adding to it.

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DoTs are a simple way of evening out damage gradients, and go some way to leveling the dps playing field without overtly effecting skill level.
They're not necessary, especially for quick classes like RDM or NIN, or BRD, but they have them anyway.

I wouldn't be bothered if RDM didn't get a DoT, but if they did, it would have to contribute to the class theme and mechanics.
For example, Verregen and Verbio. A weak regen that also increases white mana by 1 per tick, and a weak dot that also increases black mana by 1 per tick.
I know technically Bio is Arcanism not Thaumaturgy, but well, thunder was already used, unless they made Verblizzard the DoT.
Or they could be traits that apply the Veregen effect to Vercure, and the DoT to Verthunder.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Should remove it same with SMN

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This is the only part that makes me think that there could be truth behind the rumor. We know they've been toying with the idea of removing classes to one degree or another so that they may focus solely on jobs. Whether or not SE decides to go through with that, I'm at least expecting to see Summoner and Scholar made separate one of these days. And when that happens, it's entirely possible that Resurrection could be on the chopping block. Then maybe, after that decision, they thought, "maybe healers should be the only ones with Raise" and thus, Verraise is also cut. Probably replaced by something else if that ends up being the case.

But yeah, still a rumor nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Videra

It would be amusing to see what would happen if everyone that wasn't a healer lost raise.

And then Bard got raise. Just as a little bit of salt in the wound.

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You mean giving BRD back it's healer LB3?

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Why does RDM need that though? What need does it fill that the job has and how does it interact with any other part of the job's kit (other than maybe you could snapshot buffs onto it)?
I really don't understand this idea (and this post is far from the first time I've seen it) that every job should have a DoT "because DoTs". SE removed all the cookie-cutter press-button-for-DoT skills (Mutilate, Phlebotomise, Lead Shot, Touch of Death, Scourge, Fracture) from the DPS and tanks at the start of Stormblood and IMO it was a good change. Compared to a job like BRD where the DoTs are deeply integrated into the job's kit, those skills just feel tacked-on and uninteractive - buttons that just exist in the kit without really adding to it.

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Same. RDM is fine as it is, no need for a DoT management. They could make it less braindead easy and add tweaks on its Black/White Mana use outside of the melee combo, but a DoT sounds weak.
That being said, I would not mind getting raises out of SMN RDM. Or make them abilities with a longer cooldown...

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

You mean giving BRD back it's healer LB3?

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No I do specifically just mean raise - but I'd be game for both.

The only reason I could see RDM getting a DoT is if they played to the skills' "types" (verthunder has a % chance to paralyze, verstone has a % chance to slow, verfire has a % chance to burn, veraero has a % chance to, idk, silence?) Those % could go a bit higher depending on if they we're procced off impact v jolt.

It would give an interesting new way to decide what to throw into your rotations when you've already got balanced b/w so you just pick on a coin toss.

But without Verraise, how will I carry morons through Orbonne Monastery?

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

Well after seeing 2 different rdms in Eureka hard cast raise on me. I wouldn't blame them if they decided to remove it.

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You should all stop dying so damn much ;)

Hard casting gives my nearly empty MP bar a bit of time to regenerate in-between all the constant back to back raising.

But who would then raise and save parties? I think it is more then likely rumours

I also heard a rumor about SMN getting new egis and DRK is gonna have a dps tree. I think it could be true because a mentor said it to me and my ls members also said it.

And also, I know the "leak" guy from SE and I got a personal email from him. I can't share it with you guys because he doesn't want email from a thousand people.


I also heard that we're getting an Allagan race for 6.0 cause allagans are everywhere, all the time.

What would be the point to remove raise for Red Mages ? To make the job less popular ? I find this idea stupid tbh

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

I heard a rumour from this guy that I know, who knows a guy that is the uncle of a guy and he said that in Shadowbringers they'll be removing all magic from the game.

It's a rumour, just ignore it.

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https://youtu.be/FEVaXyu0lWc?t=2

But in all seriousness if they take away verraise they might as well take away raise from arcanist and summoner too

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

[url]But in all seriousness if they take away verraise they might as well take away raise from arcanist and summoner too

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Taking it away from RDM is easy, but in this scenario SCH would suffer and lose Resurrection. Well they could trait it for SMN at level 30 so it changes in to something else, but Arcanist would still have it eitherway as SCH requires it for pre-30 content (even though there isn't that much).

If SE are able to spilt the jobs successfully then Resurrection could be removed from SMN, though I don't see that as a priority in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Taking it away from RDM is easy, but in this scenario SCH would suffer and lose Resurrection. Well they could trait it for SMN at level 30 so it changes in to something else, but Arcanist would still have it eitherway as SCH requires it for pre-30 content (even though there isn't that much).

If SE are able to spilt the jobs successfully then Resurrection could be removed from SMN, though I don't see that as a priority in the grand scheme of things.

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While Arcanist is tied to both summoner and sch, SE can pick and choose abilities for each. This is why sch has Miasma II and smn has ruin IV etc. changing the raise bit would be easy. It's the stats bit that's harder for the arcanist jobes.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

While Arcanist is tied to both summoner and sch, SE can pick and choose abilities for each. This is why sch has Miasma II and smn has ruin IV etc. changing the raise bit would be easy. It's the stats bit that's harder for the arcanist jobes.

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SE is also already talking about splitting SCH away from ARC/SMN anyway, as it's the only class you get a "freebie" from levelling the other. They'd most likely keep ARC/SMN as the class/job, and make SCH something you pick up at 30, like AST, etc.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

snip.

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I'm doubting it's as easy as you say, otherwise they would of done it a long time ago. It was like the case with Leeches, SE couldn't make the level to use it lower for SCH so instead they opted to make Esuna a cross role action instead accessable to all the healers. Previously SCH had no way to use Leeches in synced content under lvl 30 unless Arcanist was allowed to use it as well, and that wasn't going to happen. They could move Rez to SCH only actions, but the lvl required would still be 30 or over so it's the same situation.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

SE is also already talking about splitting SCH away from ARC/SMN anyway, as it's the only class you get a "freebie" from levelling the other. They'd most likely keep ARC/SMN as the class/job, and make SCH something you pick up at 30, like AST, etc.

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I'd be very much for this. I enjoy playing as summoner too and it would be nice to level it separately.

I heard rumor they was going to force you to watch cut scenes and not let you skip them anymore for every duty.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I heard rumor they was going to force you to watch cut scenes and not let you skip them anymore for every duty.

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Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Yoshi-P and his team.

My hope is RDM gets some sort of upkeep buff, like En-Spells. Adding magic potency to your autos/weaponskills, and making them generate mana of the given type. As an example, they could have Enthunder and Enaero as short-cooldown abilities that can only be used under procs. Enthunder could proc off Impact and Verfire, and Enaero could proc off Impact and Verstone. From there you get an extra layer of optimization for RDM, in extra proc/balance management and melee uptime. Plus, it would speed up access to our melee combo a bit, helping us align with the party's burst phases better.

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Originally Posted by Videra

It would be amusing to see what would happen if everyone that wasn't a healer lost raise.

And then Bard got raise. Just as a little bit of salt in the wound.

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I mean, our LB3 back in ARR used to be a healer LB. I'd rather have that back tbh; not like we get many instances where we get to use our LB3 short of stealing it from someone in a 24-man.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

DoTs are a simple way of evening out damage gradients, and go some way to leveling the dps playing field without overtly effecting skill level.
They're not necessary, especially for quick classes like RDM or NIN, or BRD, but they have them anyway.

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Given BRD's current implementation, its DoTs are 100% necessary for it to function. They're deeply integrated in a BRD's rotation and are not just "press this button"/"zero maintenance required" skills. They make up quite a bit of our personal damage (along with oGCD usage), and they also interact with our songs to give Repertoire, which give us things like Pitch Perfect and Bloodletter procs. Not to mention Sidewinder's damage is based off of if you actually have your DoTs applied to a target -- 260 potency if both are up, 175 if only one is up, and 100 if neither are up.

So, yeah they are a bit necessary for BRD and have always been ingrained in their rotation (before it was just with the River of Blood trait for 50% chance to reproc Bloodletter/RoD upon dealing critical damage). We'd be gutted otherwise because we'd lose the DoT damage but also the ability to proc multiple PPs in Minuet, Bloodletter/Rain of Death in Mage's Ballad, and Sidewinder's increased potency.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

SE is also already talking about splitting SCH away from ARC/SMN anyway, as it's the only class you get a "freebie" from levelling the other. They'd most likely keep ARC/SMN as the class/job, and make SCH something you pick up at 30, like AST, etc.

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They've been talking about it since HW, never anything more than "maybe."

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I mean, our LB3 back in ARR used to be a healer LB. I'd rather have that back tbh; not like we get many instances where we get to use our LB3 short of stealing it from someone in a 24-man.



Given BRD's current implementation, its DoTs are 100% necessary for it to function. They're deeply integrated in a BRD's rotation and are not just "press this button"/"zero maintenance required" skills. They make up quite a bit of our personal damage (along with oGCD usage), and they also interact with our songs to give Repertoire, which give us things like Pitch Perfect and Bloodletter procs. Not to mention Sidewinder's damage is based off of if you actually have your DoTs applied to a target -- 260 potency if both are up, 175 if only one is up, and 100 if neither are up.

So, yeah they are a bit necessary for BRD and have always been ingrained in their rotation (before it was just with the River of Blood trait for 50% chance to reproc Bloodletter/RoD upon dealing critical damage). We'd be gutted otherwise because we'd lose the DoT damage but also the ability to proc multiple PPs in Minuet, Bloodletter/Rain of Death in Mage's Ballad, and Sidewinder's increased potency.

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They're only necessary because they're ingrained within it's mechanics.

You'd say the same for RDM if Veraero and Verthunder were DoTs and generated 1 mana per tick instead of 11 mana in one go.
You could just as easily turn BRD's DoTs into frontloaded single hits that give you a crit bonus for x amount of seconds and automatically trigger a songs effect instead of only triggering it when the DoT crits.

Is there any rumor of them combining healers and support DPS into a new Support/Utility role to replace Healer role? I think that's a better fit for Dancer than a pure Healer role.

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Originally Posted by linay

Is there any rumor of them combining healers and support DPS into a new Support/Utility role to replace Healer role? I think that's a better fit for Dancer than a pure Healer role.

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I think DNC can still be in the Healer role without being a "pure healer". I think AST is the closest to what you're talking about, but it's still classified as a healer despite providing some of the biggest damage buffs (e.g., Balance, Arrow, and to a lesser extend Spear). SCH has quite a bit of utility itself. The only healer the Devs seem to insist on remaining a "pure healer" is WHM.