Spoiler warning for those who don't want to know spell/effects for blue mage later.
TL;DR: Point of this thread is talk about limited blue mage's spells, starting with me adding my thoughts of skills and expanding what I found fun/interesting (or not lol). There are other threads for duty finder blue mage or general appreciation/dislike please use those threads for those topics and rather post here for spells/skills and interactions you liked (or disliked) :).
One of the things I noted and thought was pretty neat was spells interacting with each other (toad oil / self destruction, certain buffs like petrification, etc), and another was the power high (and fun) from 1k needles... but I also noted how a lot of spells became or were "eh" minus their situational power or the job felt a massive yoyo with stuff way weaker than another normal job of equal level (or like 1k needle, then way stronger). Because Blue Mage isn't meant to be balanced for DF I had some suggestions to (imo) spice up and modify some of the Blue Mage spells for pacing and enjoyment (assuming this kit wont be unlocked in the future for DF either, if allowed later I assume it'll be a specially designed kit - these changes have none of that in mind (unbalanced for DF changes)). I was hoping to increase the amount of fun with other skills while keeping the power high a bit intact, so that you really want to see spells interact more (rather than, imo, seeing 50% of the spells being slightly different types of aoe lol - imo).
So with that in mind I'd like to add some interactions, buffs, and general goof-iery. I've taken liberty to add effects that might not originally be there, since that seems to be true of the skills anyways (but tried to stay in theme of the ability). You may note many get added effects and that's because, imo, many feel ready for combo interaction or just felt too bland in terms of "I don't really need/want this except to fill out a collection" otherwise.
Spells:
Water Cannon - Building pressure buff mechanic (no timer on buff), every spell cast that's not water cannon adds 50 potency up to 200 (total potential being 320 potency, pressure consumed on water cannon cast).
Weaving it in feeling less like going from god mode spell 1k damage to a lalafell safe squirt gun. Also with a change recommended later in the post this will help maybe actually want to use it lol (whorl and needles).
Sticky Tongue - It's cool, good positional. Shorter cast time might feel nice but its good.
Bomb Toss - This isn't an important change but one that I think would be fun. Bomb toss is now nearly instant (0.5 second ish) cast, dropping a bomb at location that will go off in 2 seconds (as you see in many bomb mechanics). This allows the visual feedback fun that is a bomb, and also gets you back into the action faster (an issue I see with nearly everything being 2.5 second cast lol). Short cooldown added to bomb toss to compensate for the new lack of cast time.
Faze - Fazed targets become fazed, gaining an evasion down (that also effects the chance of chance based spells blue mage has) for 15 seconds (stun mechanic not removed). Faze is highly accurate skill.
Blood Drain - Maybe later restore mp will be helpful but right now it's a big "..lol why?" (so far at least). Adding something else would be really nice, perhaps a blood infusion buff (invigorated). Greatly increased mp drain effectiveness at half mp otherwise adds invigorated buff: spells cast 15% faster for the next 30 seconds (still drains mp but not super effectively).
Ice Spikes - Casting water spells increase the duration of ice spikes by 10 seconds (up to 30). Slow debuff is now called chilled. When a chilled target is chilled twice they'll gain frostbite (attack and cast speed are now slowed (20%, boss exceptions probably apply here), movement further reduced (40%)).
Acorn Bomb- 30 second aoe sleep is pretty strong lol. When equipped blue mage has increased sleep resistance (causing sleeps to not last as long and go to full resist sooner).
Self-destruct - Hopefully they plan on adding a reraise spell to blue mage, in that scenario it might be more interesting to add a longer cooldown to this skill and increase the potency further (and perhaps share that cooldown with final sting). Otherwise it's a fun goof spell, does what it needs to be (goofy).
Final Sting - Same thoughts as above, if there is a reraise blue mage spell then these could see an increase in damage and share cooldown. Otherwise it is what it is.
Mind Blast - Add rattled mind debuff - interrupted spells while under the debuff cause the enemy to take an additional 50 potency every interrupt (helpful against heavy casting enemies).
Bristle - Next 5 potency based spells damage is increased by 30% (no timer, reset to 5 spells if recast - doesn't stack past 5). I feel this will make it more fun to use while being management light. Instant cast, has cooldown (so you will probably plan it for a rotation of strong spells). While under the effects of mighty guard the damage reduction from mighty guard is ignored (nullifies mighty guard damage down, will not add 30% in that scenario).
1000 Needles - 1 second cast, has 25 or so sec cooldown. To make it less painful to use but also less abused, also part of the reason other spells are being buffed (I feel the optimal 1k needle spam is a bit of a downer on other items in the kit but if you take away this spell then things slow down /a lot/ - a check should be ran after the change to see if other skills need any further potency up buffs or not).
Toad Oil - Increases evasion by 15% when equipped as a spell, permanent slick buff. When cast increase the effectiveness of the next poison and fire spell, has cooldown. (Self-destruct potency increase, flamethrower gains range and cone width, bomb toss aoe and potency increase, bad breath effects last longer, eruption has a secondary 25% potency eruption that follows up - the interaction will be listed on the named spells not a big paragraph on this one).
Level 5 Petrify - The drill combo is nice (420 potency), I'd say all physical blue mage spells should have this (plain-cracker for example, 100 tonze swipe and swing if those become things as another example). Faze increases chance to near 100% (of equal level monsters that are a multiple of 5), cooldown added. If spell fails cooldown is not triggered.
Plaincracker - Unless Blue Mage gets to learn Titan's stomp it could be fun to give this that sort of repeat cast mechanic. Increasing the MP cost each consecutive cast but also reducing cast time, such that it becomes reminiscent of Titan's repeated stomping (but is not a maintainable activity).
Alternatively for each enemy petrified by you gives this ability one charge, up to 10. Stack does not reset except for on death/job change/logout. Ability is now instant cast, will recharge over 15 seconds if there are no stacks (will not passively gain more than 1- the rest must come from petrification or other blue mage mechanics).
Flying Sardine - Looking forward to seeing a shark skill added to this game, like those sharks that charge an enemy. Slapping an enemy with a fish adds chummed waters, adding an interaction with the shark rush skill :)
Bad Breath - Toad oil will make these effects last longer.
Dragon's Voice - They already have a fun combo, hit them with ram's voice and get 310 potency spell on dragon next.
Ram's Voice - ^
Peculiar Light - 30% magic down is nice. When waxing buff (moon flute) is on peculiar light can be cast to set waxing buff to 30 seconds (from any value, like 1 second remaining). Can be cast during waning debuff, in which case all enemies nearby will also gain your debuff of waning with whatever time it has left (which is basically a super form of pacification debuff).
The Look - A combo with one of the haka like spells the birds have in the sea of clouds could be fun.
Drill Cannons - Combos with petrification
Glower - Mighty guard damage reduction ignored and width of the beam increased when cast after the look
4-Tonze Weight - 40 heavy for 30 seconds is pretty strong given you can cast it at range even. Combo potential with any spell that has to do with gravity or lifts them into the air to crash back down :)
Aqua Breath - Looks a bit sad with 10 potency. Reminiscent of the guildhest with the malboro perhaps aqua breath if cast after toad oil creates oily bubbles that will explode after a short time offering a stacking poison debuff to those in range (something like the guldhest mechanic). If desired remove the dropsy mechanic when using toad oil, such that you will blast them with the non-physical bubbles and shock them (high voltage) and then combo with toad oil for physical bubbles that explode into stacking poison debuff with further combo opportunity via feather rain.
Diamondback - 90% damage reduction, lawl.
Eruption - Toad oil interaction
Feather Rain - Any toxic (oily) bubbles from aqua breath will become poisonous razor plumes, adding damage to their popping damage on top of the dot rain applies.
Fire Angon - Add cooldown and allow it to last on the ground for a short duration, any fire spell cast while on the ground will cause fire angon to pulse it's effect (100 potency). This includes the secondary eruption from toad oil and each tick of flame thrower.
Flame Thrower - Channeled skill that triples MP cost each "tick", like the machinist PVP flamethrower it'll apply a dot. Toad oil will cause the mp cost to double instead of triple.
Flying Frenzy - Jump attack, cool.
Glass Dance - Chilled/frostbit take an additional 100 potency and frozen enemies shatter dealing an extra 50 potency to all enemies nearby the shattered foe. (Chill comes from blizzard spikes, frozen from ram's voice).
High voltage - Works with dropsy (aqua breath) to increase potency (130) and duration of paralysis to 30 seconds which isn't bad. Would like to see the damage buffed, either direct or upgrading the dropsy dot into a different one.
Ink Jet - If it's blind like Paladin's blind then eh, if it's blind like a single player FF game then.. oh boy it's good lol. Can't recall but if there is any spell in the game that is sort of writing like then this could combo cutely with that (like if there is some library gubal book/writing related ability).
Loom - Can be used during diamond back (if that's possible). Using loom removes up two debuffs (that are esuna able). Costs 15% mp, doubling every consecutive cast (cost resets after 7 seconds). Instant cast. Combo with another ghostly spell to double range might be a neat hat trick.
Missile - Faze will help land this more likely. Imo with faze combo the % chance for non-boss monsters should be near 100% but add a cooldown. Failed casts will not trigger the cooldown.
Mountain Buster - Petrification combo, deals more damage than shock strike to a single target (but less aoe damage).
Sharpened Knife - Damage is not reduced by tank stance. Increased potency that is based on enmity held and position in the party ranking up to 500 (extra) potency. Add a decent cooldown.
Shock Strike - Extra potency if cast after water cannon, aqua breath, or fish slappy. Has better aoe sharing damage spread than Mountain Buster (but less single target).
Snort - 20 yalm cone knockback is situational but could be helpful. Can be cast without cast time if used after bad breath.
Song of Torment - Sleeping enemies will have night terrors, they will not wake while taking 75% increased potency ticks but the duration lasts 50% as long (at the end of the terror they will wake, ceasing the sleep as well).
Tail Screw - Faze will increase chance to near 100% on non-boss equal level enemies, has significant cooldown now. Failed casts will not trigger the cooldown.
Veil of the Whorl - While active: Water cannon's max pressure increased to 300 potency (420 total potency potential, before potential offensive buffs), gain 100 potency per pressure building (instead of the normal 50). Aqua Breath has increased range (creating more bubbles if cast oily).
Others (totem/mask learned):
Off-Guard - Actually pretty convenient use (even resets itself if you kill them)
White Wind - Imo blue mage should get another self healing spell (shark rush + chummed water?) but this is potentially a very strong team skill lol (very).
Mighty Guard - The damage decrease is pretty intense, but I've suggested a few ways to get around it already above (also to note for people who don't know 1k ignores this)
Transfusion - With reraise it could be neat, otherwise.. eh? Transfusion being a combat raise could be really helpful (can cast on the dead and living for a full raise and or heal), especially if it's blue mage's only raise (outside of reraise). Reraise having a cooldown being a balancing element (somewhat lol, it'll still be strong).
Moon Flute - Add a short cooldown and allow loom to remove waning nocturne :)
Doom - Faze will increase chance to land to near 100% (normal enemies at least, perhaps less so on secondary boss), has lengthy cooldown. Cooldown doesn't activate unless successful (with an exception listed later). Cooldown is notably reduced for each enemy killed (that you have participating levels of hate on like other mechanics in this game, doesn't have to die by you but you have to be active in it's death). If it fails on a boss (doom is said to never work on the final boss of an area) cooldown is set to 60 seconds and deals 500+ potency.
Edit: Not a feedback but just wanted to add a skill I thought could be really helpful in the skill list for blue mage-
Molt - Allows blue mage to create a molting of themselves taking some damage, staying in position of casting location, and taking any markers on the blue mage when cast. Meaning you could move a tank buster marker, or stack marker, off yourself and onto your molt. Name and visuals are unimportant, just that concept of being able to drop mechanics off and the shield part making it more helpful so you get greater use than just very specific fights. May leave a decent cooldown and charges on it or other concepts to encourage skilled play around these fights, so you can't just mot every single issue thrown at you (which would make it a bit boring).
A note that all buffs and monster immunities should be considered at the angle of if a monster is immune to an effect does that kill the whole combo and is that okay? So you may have a buff "apply" even if not have all of it's affects, like if rams voice, so that the combo still works; although, sometimes its okay for a monster to be able to kill the whole combo - I'm just saying SE should consider this and make sure things don't always fall apart.
Imo these sorts of combo interactions make it more fun to painfully think of what should work with what (that's a good thing) and also increase the desire to want some of the more normal skills. What sort of theme might I want to complete together best? Something you might think even more about especially as skills are added later- you might find that you really want that full fire combo but the utility of the ice and cold is so hard to pass up on!!... So you have to mull more deeply over the skills. Rather than, imo, "this is my damage skill, just this one (few more when you get oGCD options, but still stuck to a very limited selection), this is my buff of the damage skill, and this is my omg I need help skill - the rest are for collecting".
It is true of course you can choose to play less "optimally" for more varied builds but imo I'm not even trying to play optimally and the optimal situations are screaming at me (that even though I'm not trying to think about it they're still obvious). So I don't think the limited side of blue needs any strong balance within itself but I do think it'd be nice to see more skills get combos and side features that add a value that is harder to discount (like the damage on ice spikes is not great but if you could keep it up easily, and it's helping other skills.. mmmm.. not so bad maybe?).
Also of course the 1k needle power trip will die out, but I'd actually note while too consistent it was a fun experience and so that's why I'm suggesting buffs to the other blue skills (and just a short cooldown on needles) - I think for a job that wasn't allowed into DF due to balance concerns we should enjoy that power trip but hopefully not in just needles or it vanishes entirely once needles doesn't do enough (and people pray for the next tier of needles lol).
Thanks for reading :)
Edit: these are made before 5.0 changes, suggestions and concepts would likely have some changes, but I still like quite a few of the ideas- just wanted to warn that this was made in the past.
Blue Mage Spell/Skills Feedback (Limited Job Focus)
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01-17-2019, 03:11 AMShougunBlue Mage Spell/Skills Feedback (Limited Job Focus)
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01-18-2019, 01:26 PMShougun
Probably the wall of text scared and scarred a few people but just to be clear its about blue mage skills in general, not just my thoughts on them XD. I was hoping to see more discussion on the abilities of Blue Mage.. I really liked the concept of some of the combos and felt they were underutilized (and a good way to make skills feel really hard choices later on, right now I think besides 6 skills you could fill the rest of my bar our randomly and it'd mean very little to me).
Hoping to see SE buff many of the spells into neat combos, and perhaps /gently/ massage some of the overused ones while bringing up much of the other skills (no nerf hammer though). Not one to normally bump my own topic and I'll be a good boy if no one really wants to talk spells but was excited to talk about them lol.
Like how nice Angel Whisper could be, on cooldown of course. (Angel Whisper heals and adds Auto-Life, aka Reraise). Then you might see the explosion skills actually be possibly incorporate into a semi-normal action (if one wanted to at least), or transfusion maybe better sounding lol. -
01-18-2019, 03:41 PMFreyt
About the only change I'd make is for Loom to have a longer range and shorter cast time. Aqua Breath should probably be buffed, too.
I'm really happy with Blue Mage. -
01-18-2019, 05:26 PMRitsukoSonoda
I'm already wanting a BLU lvl cap increase to learn more stuff and poke at more things with it
Initially I felt most of the BLU damaging spells were lackluster while leveling. However getting some decent gear at lv 50 and started doing duties to get more pages filled I started seeing things like combo'd dragon voice reaching around 5K which is a bit nuts for an AoE at 50 if I remember what numbers looked like at that level on other jobs. That lackluster feeling while leveling may just be due to 1000 needles.
MP wise it feels like theres no need to worry unless you start spamming white wind. Passive regen seems to handle everything else so far.
IMO currently I wouldn't mind a few things in regards to BLU and maybe limited jobs in general for the future.
1. I get the idea lore wise but it still feels off to me to have a "weapon" that literally has no stats.
2. I'd actually like limited jobs to be at the same cap as other jobs but always start at lv 1. Exclude them from general DF and roulettes, however let them into certain things like solo instance MSQs, diadem and eureka.
3. I feel like a large amount of BLU's current offensive kit is going to be a bit moot later as it either has low potencies while applying status effects or is reliant on a status effect to combo. It will work on higher level "trash" mobs but boss/miniboss types later are probably going to be immune to a lot of it. -
01-18-2019, 05:36 PMBurningskull
I would rather spells just combo into one another rather than rely on a debuff that the enemy might be immune to or has had diminishing returns. I also don't like the Ram Voice > Dragon Voice cause it forces you to be right next to the mob then run away from the mob. You can't use petrification > drill cannons on bosses. You can do the Dropsy > High Voltage but it only increases your potency to like... 200... which I guess is still better than 130. I just think they need to make the spell combos more worth while, more of them, and less reliant on status effects. Also I don't see a reason for the Final Bosses to be immune to your spells if you can't only go in premades.
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01-18-2019, 06:14 PMReynhart
What I would like to make some spells more useful is for Off-Guard to trigger an elemental weakness on mobs. For example, using Off-Guard on Shiva would make Fire aspected damage more powerful or automatic Direct Hits, or something...Which would also help low-manning some instances with friends even if they're not Blue Mage themselves.
Also, I think it would be more interested to have BLU gain a little less Xp from the overworld, but also share this bonus to its whole party, so that, again, you could make some leveling in the overworld with friends that might not play BLU themselves.
And I don't understand why they're restricted from things that don't use matchmaking, like the MSQ or Eureka. -
01-18-2019, 11:18 PMCrushnight
4 things i want with blus abilities:
1.Make primal abilities free no other caster/healer has mp costing ogcds why does blu there is no need for it the cd is enough >_>
2.More single target abilities why do we have only 2 that can do any sort of dmg
3. More ability interaction the basis is there i would love to see something like you put burn on target then a wind spell gets increased dmg or something that doules buff duration but also doubles negative buff duration as well etc
4. Buff potencies please should not be hitting like a complete wet noodle for content = to its level(mostly for 3rd bosses of dungeons/trials) also single target abilities inherently weaker potency than aoes is odd to say the least
I am having fun with blu something i am glad happened as i was getting increasingly worried closer to its release 2 and 4 are the most glaring to me that need something 1 and 3 are really personal wish list -
01-19-2019, 12:05 AMSannaR
It would be nice if Ice spikes actually lasted longer or it's debuff happened more often. Also the combos should feel like they actually do something. One of the problems this job had in XI was with the whole older spells becoming useless and only equipped so you could get a buff or like their sleeps where a monster might resist a dark based sleep. Maybe up the learning chance for the non open world spells so that even if you have blue mages that have the spell in the party but they're helping a late bloomer learn something that's needed for a job quest they don't have to repeat the fight or whatever an absurd amount of times.
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01-19-2019, 12:21 AMBurningskull
I'm not sure why we even need Off Guard anyway. It's basically a Heavy Thrust. Just remove it and work in the damage bonus it gives to the basic potency of all the other spells. One less ability you need to have on your hotbar.
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01-19-2019, 12:53 AMDeceptus
The fact that so many mobs are immune to so many of BLU's spells is ridiculously stupid. Same with "low chance of success". Why bring them or have those spell at that point?
Are the Dev's worried they'll be overpowered? Wasn't that the stated goal of BLU?
A party of BLU's should be able to wreck things. As it is right now, they're a gimped magic job.
Perhaps instead of boosting damage, Bristle needs to boost the chances of effects to take hold. -
01-19-2019, 01:18 AMShougunLoom having longer range and shorter cast time would be nice, I wanted it to esuna self just to spice up the use a little (hence the extra mp cost too). Plus it sounded about right that if you could teleport yourself that you might be able to shake off some elements too :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyt
As for being happy with blue, I've had some fun and I've had a lot of questions lol. First earning 1k needle was a huge high, and revisiting all the other spells felt really bad afterwards though (to me). Which is why I'd love to see blue mage get a buff in many places (without buffing 1k needles ofc), because.. they're supposed to be off from DF due to balance reasons, I don't want to ever be thinking "bet my level 50 black mage could kill this faster" lol.
Yeah I saw the ram / dragon combo and the numbers had a bit of a "oh my, that's nice" but the problem imo was that "oh my" wasn't common enough, if Blue is locked out of duty then I think a lot of Blue Mage's kit should be looking like Ram/Dragon (of course not with the same exact mechanics though). Didn't feel like my stick was nearly as big as it should be for all the restrictions in play lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
1. Even if you could overmeld intelligence materia onto it that'd be better than nothing lol. Feels quite "but y tho", I agree. Or you know they could add a mini-relic sort of quest so that you could add stats to it that way. I get that they didn't want to design 100 walking canes for blue mage but nothing feels off as you said :).
2. Add squadron and trust system to that, and I agree. Blue Mage at least how I envisioned enjoying a limited blue mage would be a job that allows me to do any and all old content the most efficiently and hilariously, walking into Ultima EX instance and making a new broom out of that shiny armor. Eureka being another good example of letting players go in and enjoy content that might perish otherwise. I was hoping to see a chocobo buff that allows the treasure chests to be done solo via this sort of thread here, but I could also see blue mage being allowed into the content (it's not exactly dead yet either but I'd prefer to do it solo).
3. Absolutely, that's a main reason you see all the combos I made in the OP - many of which are not just potency buffs but also many combos have overlapping compontents such that there are multiple ways to use one ability, was hoping that it would lead to people trying different combos and each time they get a new spell people have to really think about their interactions. Do you want another fire spell because fire angon is going room wide insane for 25 seconds... or do you rebuild your whole kit for dots and take that new water spell that causes all dots to apply their damage at once?
That's fair ram and dragon require funny movement, although I believe I didn't suggest any combo that relied on that part so you should be good from me lol. Good point on petrification on bosses! Actually reminded me that I need to buff the potency on high voltage in my list, thanks lol (130 is a bit .. "hokay, great now what?").Quote:
Originally Posted by Burningskull
I think final bosses being immune would be fine if the rest of blue mage's kit was brought up to sufficent power levels. I mean I prefer that blue mage is a damage powerhouse, taking a solo title in any content that Blue Mage can enter, but if they don't want to do that then yeah I guess I agree I'm not sure anything needs to be immune to things like that. Besides perhaps scripts may break and boss AI becomes dead lol.
Interesting, would add more flow between the carnival and other parts of the game and I do like conceptual flow. Problem might be they stopped listing monsters with elements a long time ago, but if they didn't then that might work~Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
Imo the unbalanced version of blue mage should only be restricted to currently relevant content, and nothing else be locked away. So yeah I agree MSQ, Eureka, any and every dungeon should be enter-able besides content that SE doesn't want a blue mage casting doom in lol.
Definitely more single target combos would be nice, I mean they don't have to be combos but I liked the idea of spells interacting enough that I'd love to see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushnight
And yeah there are a lot of wet noodles in the blue mage arsenal lol, too many imo. There should be no noodles! haha :)
Agree, hence the big list of combos haha :D. Interesting idea on the blue mage, that'd be nice. Personally I think they have the % rates a bit off, seems like dungeons are rarer than open world and I'd like that to flip. It could also be because dungeons take so long that it's just a feeling that's not true lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
I think it was for the sake of single target damage but casting too many prebuffs is not something I really love doing which is why I made some of the changes to bristle and toad oil lol. (Bristle having cooldown but lasting 5 spells (30%), and toad oil being a permanent passive when equipped with more interaction potential between other spells). Not crazy about: https://youtu.be/6dxICJHd518?t=27 hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Burningskull
I think part of it might be destroying the AI, like the boss just becomes broken and doesn't have code to fix itself lol. "Oh no I've been petrified, time to give up on life now" haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
I very dislike low chance of success spells which is why I came up with the Faze combo, where in the spells are basically guaranteed but will be put on cooldown (not a 2 hour, just long enough to be happy to see it come back). I don't mind some bossing being immune to death mechanics but I'd like to see the rest of Blue Mage get a big powerhouse buff, rather than see doom work on all bosses I mean (although if they don't buff the rest of blue mage then I'd be less sad to see that happen lol).
They can put out some decent numbers later but when considering doing content by yourself those numbers don't really seem big enough, often enough, and as many interesting decisions to make them happen (to make up for the lack of a party). -
01-19-2019, 01:32 AMKaonis
I've only gotten maybe half the spells of BLU so far, but I'm pretty disappointed with what I have.
Just a few spells I have issues with and I feel I can sufficiently comment on.
Blood Drain should restore HP. I've yet to have a situation where I need MP on BLU, maybe when I get more level 50 spells, but for an early level spell the MP gain is useless. And as a solo job BLU really needs some sort of self-heal. BLU in XI got Pollen at level 1 to help them survive, but we have no equivalent. Before White Wind I've found drain to be one of most useful spells for BLU.
Bristle is just dark arts. And it feels just as bad. I find myself not using it as much because I hate the constantly spamming of the ability between every spell. They should just make it into a buff that lasts longer or make it stronger but have a cool down. As it is its basically everything I hate with DRK dark arts spam on BLU.
They also should have added better single target damaging spells for the leveling experience if they didn't want people to just cheese it to 50. As it stands I couldn't imagine actually slow grinding to 50 with nothing more than water cannon or 1000 needles for soloing down mobs health. -
01-19-2019, 01:41 AMShougunYeah blood drain is probably with loom in terms of the most unhelpful (loom can be nice in the carnival but beyond that is a very ... eh spell). My suggestion was to give it (blood drain) a cast speed buff when over 50% mp, just to speed up blue mage (and would definitely make it a useful spell lol, lower than 50% was a much larger return on mp). HP definitely makes conceptual sense but with some other changes I made in the list I actually thought a few more ways to get mp back might be helpful (a few changes I added are mana strong drains). I'm not against the hp idea just didn't touch upon it in the list because of other things that were suggested :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonis
Agreed bristle is not exciting. My suggestion was bristle has a cooldown but applies a boost to the next set of potency based spells (and is instant cast buff). Such that you weave it in once every now and then and due to how it works it'll encourage you to build a sort of free flowing rotation. Currently due to the cast time and % boost it's actually not worth casting on many spells, there are some notable exceptions though (like song of torment).
I actually grinded to 50, it wasn't that bad lol. 1k needled with some random people in northern thanalan :). Although that brings me back to the "I wish the powerhouse feeling of 1k was better balanced across all abilities, it's nice feeling, but it'll die and I want to see more ability variance at the same time of it not "dying"". -
01-19-2019, 01:41 AMDeceptusMobs being immune to sleep in later 50 dungeons (thanks speed runners) sucks too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Bristle is bad because at 50% increase, you might as well just cast two spells instead of bristle. It's more damage without bristle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonis
Throw Mind Blast in there as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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01-19-2019, 01:48 AMReiMakotoBristle does have some good uses though, for example, bristle+ song of torment is a dps gain, and you can use bristle in the down time of a fight when a boss is untargetable for just free damageQuote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
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01-19-2019, 01:54 AMMetalwrath
Water cannon and glower are both manditory for progressing in blue mage story.Obviously you get given water cannon for free at start and other you need to get in dungeon.We have water then thunder.Glower should proc after casting water cannon with some kind of bonus.
Also another other idea would be to give blue mage a spell that buffs a random element affinity with damage increase.
White wind i have mixed feelings about.It's good when you have high hp but garbage when you're hp is low and doesnt offer much survivability or a way to get your hp back up.We need some kind of seperate regen spell maybe on the job to counter balance this.
Also for the high mana cost of whitewind it should get a % chance to remove a negative debuff.I say % chance because it would be OP if it was guranteed and you could remove it off everyone in one cast. -
01-19-2019, 01:54 AMHiroesX81
Ive been enjoying leveling BLU but more than that figuring out alternate methods of getting the skills. Will say that I hope when the cap increases we get more diversity on which mobs teach us what. HW areas are really big so would be good to utilize them as such! I will say I hope that even tho I enjoy the exp boost I would like it to not be as strong in the next 10 levels? like juuust a tiny little miniscule bit!
I also think some of the earlier skills need a potency buff. Being reliant on only 1 spell ( You all know which one I mean ) for most of the leveling til 40 is kind of a drag imo. Water Cannon and some of the other ones become useless very early and id like to be able to use them more. That being said I cant wait for the next update. Want to learn more spells and the lore behind each has been excellent -
01-19-2019, 08:37 AMBurningskullThe problem with Off Guard being fore single target damage is that almost every one of your spells is AoE. Sure it's good on bosses. But that's about the only thing good on bosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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01-19-2019, 10:07 AMRitsukoSonoda
A random thought that came to mind.
BLU essentially has access to every element since spells come from enemies.
Maybe for BLU revive the elemental wheel from FFXI with updates to existing spells or the addition of new ones that would allow possibly a perpetual combo wheel of sorts rotating spells based on element they are classified under?
Granted mostly elemental resistances and mechanics were pretty much phased out to simplify the game as a whole but they could still have a niche for specific jobs like BLU to add depth to the gameplay. -
01-19-2019, 01:36 PMShougunA glower water cannon combo sounds neat, do you have a specific interaction in mind or just like a potency bonus?Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalwrath
For the elemental wheel its funny because someone else I'm responding to in this post has mentioned that and as well Reynhart did, so it's definitely a theme on a few people's minds. My concern is if they stopped asigning elements to monsters long ago, in which case the data might not be there (could be added ofc), but if it's already there then it could be well worth a look into a wheel bonus/mechanic of some sort for non-carnival content~
I agree there should be something else for surviability beyond casting whitewind early enough for it to be helpful. I had a thought of a shark skill and that fish toss skill combo'ing for a decent potency self heal, but that's honestly not even available yet (till the shark skill is added lol). Obviously we have the bat drain skill, might have something in that as well. Something besides white wind would be nice though, agreed.
We do need a debuff skill as well, white wind might work but you'd have to imagine that any party with more than one blue is basically debuff free then lol (white wind being aoe skill). I was aiming for loom to be an instant cast spell that removes two own debuffs, just as a sort of you teleported while shaking off some negative energies in the void sort of skill but I can imagine there might be a few options to remove debuffs as we move forward (there is none however right now, that should probably be fixed yeah?).
Interesting desire to lower exp gain haha, didn't expect to see that. With the current potency balance I'd prefer it didn't take longer, but if they made other skills stronger so kills not relying on "that one skill" then I'd be okay with it~ As for diversity I think that's just a matter of time but of course we should definitely travel all over :).Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroesX81
10000% on the potency buff though, that one spell is actually a fun part of the job until you get sick of casting only one spell - then it's like "I wish the rest of my kit justified all these restrictions, cause that'd be kind of cool". Yes of course there are some silly numbers of debuff skills, justifying some of the restrictions- but it's not like that helps you kill stuff much faster. There were many occasions as leveling I was thinking "this would be so much faster on a normal job, even if it was synced too". Which imo I shouldn't ever feel that with Blue Mage. That's why I suggested the building/mounting pressure idea for water cannon (boosts the potency quite a bit, also even more when combo'd with the levithan skill).
Hmm, what if off-guard rewarded you with a 50% faster cast rate (for the next spell) when a spell hits that debuffed target and reduced the cooldown of all standard spells GCD like the MCH rapid fire mechanic. Single target and aoe alike would be rewarded then. Better than gaining 50% damage on a low potency aoe at least lol. Also could make certain longer spells become weirdly viable, or if there were unique rapid fire combos normally hard to pull off - perhaps adding some diversity options as we get more spells. Modify the cooldown so it isn't always up either, making when to use it more of a thought :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burningskull
Third time I've seen the suggestion now haha :). The good and bad of course of a system like this is you'd need to change spells out more often to be optimal, good to increase diverse spell usage and bad if you had a kit you loved but it's useless against a monster due to element. Certainly taking that element... of elements from carnival and bringing it through tothe rest of the content would add some harmony to the concept of the job but I also agree your concern might be an issue with it (may, may not? lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
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01-19-2019, 02:18 PMDragon_punchWon't argue Bristle can be underwhelming on most spells current potency. Though on stuff like Final Sting which has a 1500 potency its pretty crazy. I'd trade the cast time for maybe a short cd to make it flow better with the class. In the Masked Carnivale its very handy to get past lot of the fights before they get overwhelming. Stacking the other buffs I've seen numbers in the 30k+ range which will one shot several bosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
As others have said for feedback we definitely need more combos and spells that work together. -
01-19-2019, 03:04 PMKageTokage
They seriously need to just let you learn skills while dead in instances because the current design discourages people from doing all BLU groups for learning when anyone who dies is going to just be left in the lurch.
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01-19-2019, 03:25 PMEkimmakThe problem is simple, 150% power for two casts doesn't match up to casting something twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon_punch
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01-19-2019, 03:29 PMBurningskullI think Bristle is not supposed to be used per spell but more like on the combo spells. Like Petrification > Bristle > Drill Cannon. Only problem is spell combos on Blue is goverened by debuffs which only trash mobs are not immune to. Also Bristle doesn't work on Primal spells which is dissapointing. As is I only use Bristle on Song of Torment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekimmak
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01-19-2019, 04:33 PMBerethosFor reference, Bard's Heavy Shot at 50 ( a 150 potency weaponskill) does around 450ish, which is in line with the spammable spells BLU has when they aren't being buffed by something. Add synergies with Moon Flute, Off-guard, etc., and even the spammable stuff outclasses what a number of other jobs are capable of at 50...Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
But yeah, the BIG culprit for it feeling weak before that point is they can't compete with 1k needles until you're up near/at 50 PLUS have access to more of the synergistic abilities (some of which are only accessible at 50, such as Moon Flute). -
01-19-2019, 04:38 PMRitsukoSonoda
Well the elemental wheel not so much in resistances with the monsters but more of usage of spells in a combo similar to what we did with ninjutsu at one point in FFXI rotating the elemental damage ones in a specific order for what was basically a potency increase. We would be assigning the BLU spells an element rather than the monsters themselves. This would allow swapping of spells in rotations on the fly by allowing multiple choices at each step. Dark and light would be the odd ones in it and probably just be healing skills, buffs, debuffs and 1 off attacks with high base potency and possibly a long cooldown.
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01-19-2019, 09:27 PMhynaku
At this point Blu is way to weak. When your level 50 with ilvl of 128 and takes more than 5 hits to kill lvl 28 mob something is wrong. Blu to me is the weakest job out there. To many skill never work or has way to low of a chance to hit. Not job I will ever play unless there is major changes to it.
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01-19-2019, 09:33 PMRhus
Feels like they "erred" on the side of over cautious with potency for Blue Mage. I'm level 50 and was doing tam tara normal for mind break (or whatever its called) and even the normal trash was still taking about 2 AOE or 3 water cannons to kill. That seems a lot for an unsynced lvl 50 considering they are only level 16.
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01-19-2019, 09:37 PMKageTokage
I don't find BLU to be that much weaker then standard 50 jobs once you've gotten their full DPS kit, and when it comes bosses any shortcomings in sustained DPS are likely made up for by the obscene amount of low HP burst they can dish out with Final Sting (Which is akin to getting an extra melee LB 2 off if it crits).
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01-19-2019, 09:44 PMMetalwrath
Shougon i was thinking of very small potency bonus with an instant cast proc.If that sounds too strong you could make it % based chance.Bristle should be 30 sec cd and and instant cast ocd.
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01-20-2019, 04:55 AMBerethosWhat exactly are you doing that it takes 5 hits to a kill a level 28 mob? Auto attacking?Quote:
Originally Posted by hynaku
A single bristle+off-guard and any one of your spammable spells at ilvl 128 should be doing around 900 damage, give or take.
Considering 1000 damage (easily testable with 1k needles) is enough to one-shot most things up into the 30s, and take things in the high 30s to half health...if you're taking 5 hits at 50 with near max ilvl for BLU against a creature 32 levels below you?
You're doing something wrong. -
01-20-2019, 05:05 AMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by Berethos
In that case it would be three spells lol. Close to 5, I know I'm being a little silly on the number though lol. I think just having to cast two spells to "un"terrible something feels terrible though. -
01-20-2019, 05:15 AMBerethosMight I ask when the last time you did something where you were synced at level 50?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhus
See my above comment about Bard synced at 50 - 450-500 damage is about where its spammable abilities hit when at that level (Heavy Shot specifically, which is our highest spammable ability at 50 and has 150 potency - Misery's End is higher at 190 but requires sub 20% health and has a 12 second recast, and even the higher level abilities with higher potencies are either cool down based or held behind the RNG inherent to the job's current design). Spamming Plainscracker with no additional buffs has you doing higher potency aoe than a Bard can when at the same level - 130 for the BLU versus 110 for the Bard.
Unbuffed most of its potencies are very much in line with what another job would be capable of at that level, and then its the buffs and synergies that take it noticeably above what the others can do...but again, at that specific level.
Right now, BLU has two aspects to its identity - learning skills is one, but the "tilted synergies" (to use the phrase from the translation of the Famitsu interview) is the other, and it's with those that BLU can and does outclass other jobs at that level...and then you throw in the special abilities, like Diamondback (Mighty Guard+White Wind for aggro, then Lucid Dreaming to get that MP back, then become super tank for 10 seconds at a time, with enough MP to do it for 30s total). -
01-20-2019, 05:18 AMBerethosIf the basic Water Cannon is terrible at 50, then Bard's abilities are terrible at 50. As I've outlined a couple times now, unbuffed it hits for the same range as others do when at that same level, barring certain jobs that are designed to hit hard and do little else (such as Black Mage).Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Also, to be silly about their word choice on the numbers, they said "5 hits" not 5 spells. -
01-20-2019, 05:25 AMShougunHaha true 5 hits. I'd suggest that we probably disagree on a base line. Since your example shows blue mage being a bit stronger than bard on spam skills but I'm thinking blue mage should be massively stronger as a baseline (prebuffs even). As that's the only way I can feel the limitations are justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berethos
Water cannon no buffs slapping regular monsters into a leviathan flood. -
01-20-2019, 07:18 AMBurningskullI think the problem is that most of BLU's combos that require them to do super damage are gated behind status debuffs that most non trash mobs are immune to. Such as petrify, stun, and that freeze debuff. The one combo that isn't is Dropsy > High Voltage. But High Voltage comboed is only 130 potency. Which is the same potency of Glower and Ram's Voice. So you are still better off spamming those on bosses. The fact that peculiar light is only 10s and has a somewhat long cool down doesn't help BLU be overpowered. Add to that Mood flute makes you litteraly useless for 15s after it's over. Which means all that extra damage you do while Moon Flute + Peculiar Light is balanced out if you hadn't used Moon Flute but could still cast afterwords.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berethos
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01-20-2019, 09:01 AMJBee
Full disclosure - I didn't want BLU as a limited job and I still don't.
I have had some fun this week playing with BLU. More than I thought I would, actually.
I'm capped at 50, have all but the two spells from the Carnivale, and have gone through 8 stages so far of the MC.
The Carnivale is... well it's not fun for me. A series of solo duties to do for bonus rewards of non end-game relevant currencies... And the fights just feel like mini meme's. Ohohhohoho!! Water the lava to make it explode! You figured that out, now ACT TWO! *transition* I mean, sure, I guess, for some of the stuff, but as I've gone through it more and more, it's a matter of the difficulty being scaled behind figuring out the trick. And once you figure out the trick, it's just time wasters really.
Plus all the tricks have been found already, so it's not like it's particularly challenging.
I had more fun in the PF groups helping people get their abilities and seeing them for the first time... and running as all BLU groups to get some of them... than the carnivale.
Not even sure if I will bother to finish it now.
I get where they were coming from in saying it doesn't work with DF and limited and all, but in the end, for me, they made bad decisions. They decided to meme instead of making lasting, compelling content. And considering how many people have been playing it this week, I imagine it will only get worse in the future with other LJs. Shame. Some of the stuff is genuinely fun - but whatever.
Back to playing the real game now I guess. -
01-20-2019, 09:34 AMNihility
my feeling is everything is basically 110, 120, or 130 potency so your kind of just stuck using the clearly better spells
like, why use mindblast when you can plainscracker?
or why even bother with the aquabreath > high voltage combo when stuff like the voices and plainscracker/flamethrower/glower do the same damage on one button which is a real shame since both those spells look cool and the interaction makes them more interesting
A lot of spells like ink jet are just lower potency outright which makes them very undesirable
I'd say the first adjustment needed would be to make blue mage actually capable of tanking so stuff like primal farming isn't almost required to have a carry.
doesn't even need to be anything big, like...
The Look: 90 potency damage not reduced by mighty guard
bad breath: mp cost drastically reduced while under the effect of mighty guard (the one thing this does exceptionally well is the damage reduction debuff so it is a tank skill)
diamondback: mp cost and duration reduced by 50% while under the effect of mighty guard
and after that, maybe make some of the skills instant cast or have combo effects to compensate for the 10 less potency. give them a reason to exist -
01-20-2019, 03:16 PMFreytMindblast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihility
- Less than 1s cast time. Gives you opportunities to avoid AoE's without missing your cast.
- Paralysis is useful to mitigate damage
- 30 potency not that huge a difference until you use it a lot
Aqua Breath > High Voltage:
- The paralysis advantage of Mind Blast, but with the potency of Plaincracker
Ink Jet:
- 30s blind is insane
- 10 potency difference not a big deal when you're using it as a blind
The Look:
Not a bad idea, I agree. 90 potency might be too much though and get a group to just take the hit in damage to have guaranteed safety.
Bad Breath:
The MP cost is not a big deal. Remember, that being in the Magic role gives us Lucid Dreaming.
Diamondback:
This one is an alright idea. Personally I'd rather just be able to cancel it any time I want.
Just about every skill is unique. They all have their niche. Some of those niche's are less useful than others.