Punished For wanting to get stuff done

In a dungeon with a bad healer, so you vote dismiss them and it gets turned down.

You abandon duty.

Now you can't level for a half hour because there is nothing else to do in this game besides the same 5 dungeons to level.

This game has a serious lack of leveling content for the people to do besides spam the same 5 dungeons over and over.

Fates don't scale to the amount of people doing them. If there is 1 person it should be much quicker for that person to clear the fate by themselves.

Beast Tribes barely amount to anything.

Until the higher levels clan hunts barely amount to anything.

There are no leves anymore.

Not enough sidequests to level more than 2 jobs and thats being liberal with dungeon runs on one of them.

So you either need to get rid of the 30 min penalty for people who don't want their time wasted, or give us shit to do level solo.

If you left simply because one players ability didn't meet your standards, then it sounds like the penalty is working as intended.

If there is a bad healer, perhaps you can help teach them to be better? Don't expect every single player to be perfect at the game, the duties brings all types of players whether new or hardcore so don't be so quick to jump ship otherwise the penalty is working as intended. Also consider making parties via the PF if you want to avoid randoms effecting your gameplay

Beast tribe's exp reward is pretty great for how easy the daily quests are though. Also I feel you on players that makes you want to just abandon the thing because it's pretty clear when they aren't paying attention at all. So since they don't want to play the game, then I don't want to play with them either. This is why I only ever queue up roulette as a tank to minimize the damage to myself and maximize it to the randos. Now they can finish their netflix tv episode in peace.

It only takes two people to vote someone out of a dungeon. If you were the only person who took issue with the healer, well... majority rules. Suck it up and finish or eat the penalty.

If you just silently tried to vote someone out without a discussion or anything, it seems like you deserved that penalty. If someone is acting up or causing problems, I'll tell them or ask them to do something different, and if they get worse or start fighting with me, then I'll consider voting them out. Punishing them without warning or giving them a chance to explain themselves means you get what you give.

Patience is a warrior's greatest weapon.

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Originally Posted by Tanro

Fates don't scale to the amount of people doing them. If there is 1 person it should be much quicker for that person to clear the fate by themselves.

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They do scale.

Some are generally tougher to do solo, or without a Chocobo set as a healer/tank (and some are much tougher - the longer ones), but FATEs do scale based on the overall FATE activity in that zone. If you're one of the few, or the only one doing them, they are very much doable and the progress bar fills faster than if there is a group.

It's not super fast - most will take between 5-10 minutes to solo, but it's an option (and your challenge log will tack on another XP reward).

Now, I'm guessing since you mention that you don't have Leves that you're leveling something 60+.

I literally just took a class from 60-70 without actually setting foot in a dungeon until the very end (not a fan of tanking for pugs personally, and my FC have largely been on holiday, and I wanted to get my DRK to 70 over the break). Did it 9 days with a single dungeon run, and that was with holiday family gatherings taking up the entirety of a couple of those days. Would have been faster had I actually FATE farmed, which brings me to...

FATEs give anywhere from 150-250k xp, plus the approximately 500k for doing one in 5 different zones (can be super easy lowbie ones too) and another 500k or so for doing 10. Beast tribes, between the two at 60+, start at about 1.5 million xp (258k each at 61) and go up from there, and those take maybe 15 minutes to complete.

Centurio Hunt seals? The first rank, which is certainly doable in the first couple levels following 60, is another 500k, quick and easy.

Now this last one - I don't actually know if you can enter it when you're locked out of duty roulette from abandoning, but since part of your complaint is that we "only have the same 5 dungeons to level" I'm including it - Heaven on High. A quick run of that (solo if you want, which is easy enough) from 21-30 starts around 1.2 or 1.3 million xp, and caps around 1.8 million xp per run around 68 or 69.

They've given you plenty to do to level solo. It's up to you to use it.

I wonder what OP's definition of "bad healer" is.
As healer, I met once a tank that raged at me because I weren't to keep his HP always fulled at 95%+

(edit: and I saw him using potions when it was 80%)

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Originally Posted by Kurando

If there is a bad healer, perhaps you can help teach them to be better? Don't expect every single player to be perfect at the game, the duties brings all types of players whether new or hardcore so don't be so quick to jump ship otherwise the penalty is working as intended. Also consider making parties via the PF if you want to avoid randoms effecting your gameplay

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Nope. They do not listen to you, at all. Don't bother. Sometimes they just decide to kick you instead! PF parties are just as bad, or even worse, and take longer for the same outcome!

Also, "mentors" sometimes you try to give "advice" way too hard, and it comes off as very condescending.

I just do PoTD/HoH to level anymore. I hate leveling in the first place, but at least HoH gives me hair I can sell, and pets. Floor 40-50 of PoTD is a complete nightmare, but if you can get past that then the groups at 50-60 are generally at +99/99 and are there specifically to level, so about 99% of the time you won't have a problem there.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

I wonder what OP's definition of "bad healer" is.
As healer, I met once a tank that raged at me because I weren't to keep his HP always fulled at 95%+

(edit: and I saw him using potions when it was 80%)

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I'll give you an example from yesterday's roulette. Aurum Vale, healer is healing themselves at full half the time. I'm a red mage at 20% health because the healer decides they will only focus heal (if they actually heal someone other than themselves) the tank the entire encounter. Also, dies on the first boss. Oh, and was eating the tank's fruit, so the tank had to pull the boss across the boss room to find a fruit.

Someone hand the OP a mirror from the accountability shelf please.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'll give you an example from yesterday's roulette. Aurum Vale, healer is healing themselves at full half the time. I'm a red mage at 20% health because the healer decides they will only focus heal (if they actually heal someone other than themselves) the tank the entire encounter. Also, dies on the first boss. Oh, and was eating the tank's fruit, so the tank had to pull the boss across the boss room to find a fruit.

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That sounds like an inexperienced healer. Quite common to run across them in early content, and AV is the first encounter we get where a PUG isn't going to get through it just button smashing. Also, general rule of thumb in av is it's OK for the healer to take someone else's fruit, but never OK to take theirs. Considering this healer was focus healing the tank, the tank shouldn't even have moved at all. The fruits do respawn.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

That sounds like an inexperienced healer. Quite common to run across them in early content, and AV is the first encounter we get where a PUG isn't going to get through it just button smashing. Also, general rule of thumb in av is it's OK for the healer to take someone else's fruit, but never OK to take theirs. Considering this healer was focus healing the tank, the tank shouldn't even have moved at all. The fruits do respawn.

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Well, they weren't focus healing the tank. They were focus healing themselves at full health. They occasionally only healed the tank. Also, died on that boss even though they were eating all the fruit on that side.

Inexperienced for sure. I actually have a high tolerance, but I can call something a duck when it walks like one. They should know how to target and who to target by Aurum Vale. I could understand dying on mechanics.

Healer business aside... if you don't do raids or crafting stuff... just leveling is pretty monotonous. It's definitely a hub game feeling. I typically cancel between story patches after finishing msq and play another game... do that story and come back when more story is released. I don't think there is enough engaging material to only play one game.

Honestly OP leveling couldnt be much easier these days.
Newer players like yourself have it so much easier than we did.You didnt get to experience of the ARR fate trains.Spending hours upon hours in North thal and cooerthas to get to level 50.It was truly grim.
Beast tribe quests xp scales and the bonuses are higher the higher leve your reputation gets also.You also have bigger fc xp buffs than we used to have.Fate xp scales better than it used to.They also ahve oens that give xp rate boosts in Stormmblood.
You also have weekly challenge xp boosts you can get which scale with your level too.You can do low level fates and low lvl battle craft leves just to get the free xp bonus weekly.
You also have sightseeing logs that xp scales with too.Daily hunts give xp also.
And if you dont want to do any of those then you can do other things while waiting for your punishment for trying to act toxic wears off.
For example you can make something to eat.Go for a walk outside.Take a long visit to the toilet.Go do some shopping.Etc etc.

It can be frustrating having an inexperienced player in your party, especially one who is basically holding the lives of their party in their hands. Just have to have some patience though. Offering advice helps sometimes too. I've noticed that people don't always respond in chat but they can read and listen, and will sometimes adjust their playstyle upon seeing a better way to do things.

Fates in SB and HW I know scale to the number of people doing them in the zone and have a minimum difficulty. Also if you have the armory bonus getting from 60 to about 66/67 is fairly easy especially if you do those other things others have suggested. It'd surprise you how much you'd think a healer should know how to do by the time they reach AV but when you get whms or ast who only spam medica II or aspected helios in things like the vault or still don't realize cure III is a very small aoe or that when they stand no where near the boss or trash pack and spam holy that they're doing damage you kind of stop being surprised.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Fates in SB and HW I know scale to the number of people doing them in the zone and have a minimum difficulty. Also if you have the armory bonus getting from 60 to about 66/67 is fairly easy especially if you do those other things others have suggested. It'd surprise you how much you'd think a healer should know how to do by the time they reach AV but when you get whms or ast who only spam medica II or aspected helios in things like the vault or still don't realize cure III is a very small aoe or that when they stand no where near the boss or trash pack and spam holy that they're doing damage you kind of stop being surprised.

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I think the issue with new players now is especially with stuff like the armory bonus that players level too fast early on and dont get enough dungeon experience.An fc mate was telling me yesterday how he jumped SEVEN levels from one run of Tam Tara.To me that just seems stupid to have that kind of xp gain.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

I think the issue with new players now is especially with stuff like the armory bonus that players level too fast early on and dont get enough dungeon experience.An fc mate was telling me yesterday how he jumped SEVEN levels from one run of Tam Tara.To me that just seems stupid to have that kind of xp gain.

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Seven levels? I wish I could level that fast on my alt. I do the leveling roullete and MAYBE make one level at level 43! It takes like 4 PoTd runs, this is without hte armoury bonus granted.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Seven levels? I wish I could level that fast on my alt. I do the leveling roullete and MAYBE make one level at level 43! It takes like 4 PoTd runs, this is without hte armoury bonus granted.

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Yeah granted they would have been the entry level to tam tara as an alt job.But still it means that whereas in ARR that would have equate to 1 lvl gain doing a run now they are gaining 7.So instead of doing 7 dungeon runs to get to that level they are only doing 1.Thats a lot of dungeon experience missed on jobs they dont know yet.If you think about with the giant leaps with the likes of leveling roulette and then at later levels with story roulette people arent running near as many dungeons as you used to.Or people are running through POTD where the enmies dont have enough hp to get any proper rotations in.
What we are seeing more and more players only actually learning how to play their jobs properly at high levels.And when i say high levels i mean literally above level 60.They are being carried through by older players in roulette prior to this.
SE have overbuffed experience gains and in the long run player skill has suffered over it.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Yeah granted they would have been the entry level to tam tara as an alt job.But still it means that whereas in ARR that would have equate to 1 lvl gain doing a run now they are gaining 7.So instead of doing 7 dungeon runs to get to that level they are only doing 1.Thats a lot of dungeon experience missed on jobs they dont know yet.If you think about with the giant leaps with the likes of leveling roulette and then at later levels with story roulette people arent running near as many dungeons as you used to.Or people are running through POTD where the enmies dont have enough hp to get any proper rotations in.
What we are seeing more and more players only actually learning how to play their jobs properly at high levels.And when i say high levels i mean literally above level 60.They are being carried through by older players in roulette prior to this.
SE have overbuffed experience gains and in the long run player skill has suffered over it.

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I will say I might not be getting 7 levels an at level dungeon on my alt, but I am literally 18 levels ahead of my story, barely done any dungeons - even at level ones first time without the roulette give me near a full level. My leveling experience has pretty much been me afking in quarrymill, and since I am leveling as a paladin I can just log in for 20 minutes, get my level, and get off. I have probably done 20 or less dungeon runs TOTAL on it. No FATEs, or open world content (well, I did do some FATEs and my hunts to get to 15 along with main story), and this is a fresh character WITHOUT the armory bonus. I can only imagine how fast a player keeping up in story and doing roulette. I think all you really need to do is the story anyway, I think it gives you enough exp if you keep up with it.

I started playing this game in Heavensward and even then I used FATEs and dungeon grind to level up. Hell, at the start of Stormblood I grinded dungeons to get my WHM/WAR to 70, now I can just do heaven on high 2 dozen times from 61-70.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I will say I might not be getting 7 levels an at level dungeon on my alt, but I am literally 18 levels ahead of my story, barely done any dungeons - even at level ones first time without the roulette give me near a full level. My leveling experience has pretty much been me afking in quarrymill, and since I am leveling as a paladin I can just log in for 20 minutes, get my level, and get off. I have probably done 20 or less dungeon runs TOTAL on it. No FATEs, or open world content (well, I did do some FATEs and my hunts to get to 15 along with main story), and this is a fresh character WITHOUT the armory bonus. I can only imagine how fast a player keeping up in story and doing roulette. I think all you really need to do is the story anyway, I think it gives you enough exp if you keep up with it.

I started playing this game in Heavensward and even then I used FATEs and dungeon grind to level up. Hell, at the start of Stormblood I grinded dungeons to get my WHM/WAR to 70, now I can just do heaven on high 2 dozen times from 61-70.

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Aye like i was stating to another fc member who is new is that you gain levels too fast now.And explained to them that there is literally no point in doing roulettes on your main character.You gain xp so quickly now that you'll end up being much higher level but no access to the content for that level which imo makes it pointless.
Personally i feel stuff like roulettes should be locked out for jobs below level 50 to stop this happening because new players are only going to get annoyed and leave the game when they realise they have all those levels and no access to the high end content.And doing it on alts is only going to get them flamed in dungeons when they cant play their role to a reasonable standard at high levels

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Aye like i was stating to another fc member who is new is that you gain levels too fast now.And explained to them that there is literally no point in doing roulettes on your main character.You gain xp so quickly now that you'll end up being much higher level but no access to the content for that level which imo makes it pointless.
Personally i feel stuff like roulettes should be locked out for jobs below level 50 to stop this happening because new players are only going to get annoyed and leave the game when they realise they have all those levels and no access to the high end content.And doing it on alts is only going to get them flamed in dungeons when they cant play their role to a reasonable standard at high levels

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I actually have to go out of my way to collect the higher level dungeons. If I wanted to I could skip it all except for the main story ones. Leveling roullete will work on the ones it gives me from that anyway. PoTD/HoH, for me, does give me good practice when I decide to level another job though. Granted you won't learn fight mechanics, etc. too much, but you can practice your higher level rotation well enough.

You should able to queue now! Nice!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I actually have to go out of my way to collect the higher level dungeons. If I wanted to I could skip it all except for the main story ones. Leveling roullete will work on the ones it gives me from that anyway. PoTD/HoH, for me, does give me good practice when I decide to level another job though. Granted you won't learn fight mechanics, etc. too much, but you can practice your higher level rotation well enough.

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Actually no you cant.Mobs die in a few hits so you dont get to do full rotations or experience.PLD rotations are very simple but in terms of dps rotations that rely on stacks that deminish its not possible.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Well, they weren't focus healing the tank. They were focus healing themselves at full health. They occasionally only healed the tank. Also, died on that boss even though they were eating all the fruit on that side.

Inexperienced for sure. I actually have a high tolerance, but I can call something a duck when it walks like one. They should know how to target and who to target by Aurum Vale. I could understand dying on mechanics.

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Fair enough. I can only be on the outside looking in. I was just mentioning that it's a pre-anything dungeon, and AV is truly the first dungeon where the unavoidable damage packs a punch. It's usually the first dungeon a healer says, "Hey! What happened to all your guy's health!?" The behavior you described by this healer is indicative of one who was panicking, which comes from inexperience, anxiety, or both.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Actually no you cant.Mobs die in a few hits so you dont get to do full rotations or experience.PLD rotations are very simple but in terms of dps rotations that rely on stacks that deminish its not possible.

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It depends really. On trash, a full rotation - probably not. On the boss you can. That's kind of how it is in dungeons anyway, and until you start the higher level ones you don't have access to those skills. I learned my RDM through it, and seem to be doing pretty great so far (gear is holding me back though, of course). Granted even a monkey could probably do RDM, but I digress...

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Fair enough. I can only be on the outside looking in. I was just mentioning that it's a pre-anything dungeon, and AV is truly the first dungeon where the unavoidable damage packs a punch. It's usually the first dungeon a healer says, "Hey! What happened to all your guy's health!?" The behavior you described by this healer is indicative of one who was panicking, which comes from inexperience, anxiety, or both.

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Not really.Brayflox really challenges new healers with all the poison.especially on the last boss.
Stone vigil is also before AV and some of those dragons hit like a truck.A party can get easily overwhelmed there just by one of those patroling adding to the pull they are fighting.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Not really.Brayflox really challenges new healers with all the poison.especially on the last boss.
Stone vigil is also before AV and some of those dragons hit like a truck.A party can get easily overwhelmed there just by one of those patroling adding to the pull they are fighting.

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I'd argue that Cutter's Cry gives new healers more trouble than either of those thanks to the good 'ol non-telegraphed AoEs of the Chimera. This attack is still avoidable though unlike Gold Rush and Burr Burrow, which inflicts a DoT greater than that in BF along with initial damage based on number of stacks. Poison stacks in BF are actually not that bad. Pre 4.0, SCHs would get a little nervous about not having a cleanse at that point, but Lily handles the multiple stacks just fine.

I'm not saying that parties can't or don't get overwhelmed in those two dungeons, but until AV, health bars can stay above a newbie healer's threshold if everyone avoids the bad. In AV against Locksmith and Miser's Mistress, nothing can be done about it, and the healer simply has to step up.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'd argue that Cutter's Cry gives new healers more trouble than either of those thanks to the good 'ol non-telegraphed AoEs of the Chimera. This attack is still avoidable though unlike Gold Rush and Burr Burrow, which inflicts a DoT greater than that in BF along with initial damage based on number of stacks. Poison stacks in BF are actually not that bad. Pre 4.0, SCHs would get a little nervous about not having a cleanse at that point, but Lily handles the multiple stacks just fine.

I'm not saying that parties can't or don't get overwhelmed in those two dungeons, but until AV, health bars can stay above a newbie healer's threshold if everyone avoids the bad. In AV against Locksmith and Miser's Mistress, nothing can be done about it, and the healer simply has to step up.

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You seem to be forgeting one thing though.Stone Vigil and Brayflox are manditory story dungeons.
Cutters cry is optional.A lot of new players wont do that dungeon and as a result even in leveling roulette if they unlocked on another job it's highly unlikely to appear in duty finder.
AV is also optional.
Brayflox and Stone Vigil are the 2 dungeons a new player is guaranted to have to do and they are known as the 2 pre 50 dungeons that new players struggle the most on to progress story.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Also, general rule of thumb in av is it's OK for the healer to take someone else's fruit, but never OK to take theirs. Considering this healer was focus healing the tank, the tank shouldn't even have moved at all. The fruits do respawn.

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The fruits do respawn, but not fast enough when the newbie DPS just ate three at once, and you-the-tank are now at four poison stacks while trailing an angry ochu across the room...

Eat your fruit at two stacks. As far as I was aware, that's the only rule needed.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

You seem to be forgeting one thing though.Stone Vigil and Brayflox are manditory story dungeons.
Cutters cry is optional.A lot of new players wont do that dungeon and as a result even in leveling roulette if they unlocked on another job it's highly unlikely to appear in duty finder.
AV is also optional.
Brayflox and Stone Vigil are the 2 dungeons a new player is guaranted to have to do and they are known as the 2 pre 50 dungeons that new players struggle the most on to progress story.

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I know. Hence why they don't hit as hard a CC or AV. But which dungeons are mandatory, and which ones hit harder goes a little beyond the point I was making though, which is simply just scripted damage healers have to contend with.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The fruits do respawn, but not fast enough when the newbie DPS just ate three at once, and you-the-tank are now at four poison stacks while trailing an angry ochu across the room...

Eat your fruit at two stacks. As far as I was aware, that's the only rule needed.

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For Locksmith, the fruits are literally everywhere, and respawn quickly. There really is no excuse for players letting too many stacks build up in that fight. A player going around eating fruit who has no stacks is an extreme example that is a rare case for a healer to deal with. If that is happening, someone needs to call that player out. Miser's Mistress is a different story, and I believe the OP was talking about the first fight specifically. For MM, it is usually best to inform a PUG how the fruit mechanic goes especially if there are sprouts due to there being much less of them, and far longer respawn time (I've actually never seem them respawn and just going by the guides that say they do). Otherwise MM tends to wipe most PUG at least once before they figure out that the fruit mechanic involves actual strategy.

There are only four fruits in the first boss room of Aurum Vale. Everyone is assigned their own fruit (tanks and melee get closest to boss, healers and ranged further away) and eat one at two stacks and their fruit should respawn just before they get a second stack again.

Miser's Mistress has fruits everywhere, but they take longer to respawn and you should only eat the fruits at three stacks.