Courier lost my Encyclopedia, SE are stonewalling me on support (UK)

A week ago the UK courier (DPD) lied about me being home and decided to sign the package on my behalf, without leaving any record of where they decided to leave it.

After many days and approaches of trying to get support from them, they are still unable to tell me where it ias, but have told me they are waiting for a response from the merchant (aka, whoever does this for SE in the UK) so they can investigate, and they have been for DAYS.

And almost a week on SE still haven't replied to my personal ticket, or the update I sent them with the courier's reply. And now I don't know what to do, it feels like i've just thrown my money away on nothing and I have to accept it. I'm open to suggestions :(

You could try to contact your Credit card company and see if they'll pull the charge? Explain the situation...
Not sure what else you can try. I'm not in the UK, so I dont know their policies or rules about lost mail. Usually it falls on the store to eat the lost merchandise and recoup the loss from the courier.

You could also contact your local law enforcement and ask about what steps you can take against the courier for illegally forging your signature...? I dunno...

Sounds like a legit reason to do a charge back to me. I'd contact your card issuer and dispute it.

If you like your account I would urge you to avoid the chargeback. While communications are a fragmented mess, billing runs straight through and they will not hesitate to lock down your account for it.

Is there anyway you can contact the courier company? Also, this sounds like a job for the police.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

You could try to contact your Credit card company and see if they'll pull the charge? Explain the situation...
Not sure what else you can try. I'm not in the UK, so I dont know their policies or rules about lost mail. Usually it falls on the store to eat the lost merchandise and recoup the loss from the courier.

You could also contact your local law enforcement and ask about what steps you can take against the courier for illegally forging your signature...? I dunno...

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Sounds like a legit reason to do a charge back to me. I'd contact your card issuer and dispute it.

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Thanks for your advice, but this:

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

If you like your account I would urge you to avoid the chargeback. While communications are a fragmented mess, billing runs straight through and they will not hesitate to lock down your account for it.

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is why I was hesitating to avoid the chargeback. And I actually want my book >_<

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Is there anyway you can contact the courier company? Also, this sounds like a job for the police.

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I did message them, they told me they are trying to get a response from the merchant but there's nothing. I don't know about contacting the police, this seems more like a civil matter than a criminal one :/ I'll try a fresh support ticket using the advice I found here https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...een-delivered/ I guess, if they still don't reply I guess i'll have to try the charge back, which makes me pretty nervous.

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Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

I did message them, they told me they are trying to get a response from the merchant but there's nothing. I don't know about contacting the police, this seems more like a civil matter than a criminal one :/ I'll try a fresh support ticket using the advice I found here https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...een-delivered/ I guess, if they still don't reply I guess i'll have to try the charge back, which makes me pretty nervous.

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I honestly dont understand why they need a response from SE to figure out how THEY messed up the delivery? One should expect them to be able to figure out who on their staff messed up and possibly how to fix this now... specially if you have a tracking ID and such.
I'd keep harrassing DPD if I were you...

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Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

I did message them, they told me they are trying to get a response from the merchant but there's nothing. I don't know about contacting the police, this seems more like a civil matter than a criminal one :/ I'll try a fresh support ticket using the advice I found here https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...een-delivered/ I guess, if they still don't reply I guess i'll have to try the charge back, which makes me pretty nervous.

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Civil Lawsuits do exist for things like this, though at face value this really does sound criminal. They forged your signature which in itself is illegal, lied about it and didn't leave any record on where it is. Based on that, the delivery person could have very well just flat out stole it for themselves and kept it.

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Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

I don't know about contacting the police, this seems more like a civil matter than a criminal one

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Forgery is a crime. One can be fined or arrested for it. As such, it is most certainly something for the police.

On the other hand, having documents from the police related to the forgery may greatly increase the couriers (company) interest in helping you, lest they be accused of being a side to a criminal offense. If the court will actually find the courier (person) guilty in a timely manner, you can be sure that it will instantly make the company do their very best to help you.

Sure, the case seems like something small, but unlike in civil cases, you have nothing to lose but some time. You won't have to pay anything. You already do by paying taxes. And it will always help in a civil case related to it were you to pursue it in the future for whatever reason.

Might just be me, but I don’t understand why it would be on SE to contact the mail carrier to initiate an investigation when the carrier were the ones who lost the package in the first place, and you’ve already alerted them that it was not recieved. Sounds like they’re just saying things to get you to leave them alone.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

Might just be me, but I don’t understand why it would be on SE to contact the mail carrier to initiate an investigation when the carrier were the ones who lost the package in the first place, and you’ve already alerted them that it was not recieved. Sounds like they’re just saying things to get you to leave them alone.

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The reason to contact SE is simple, they are the one who chose to use this carrier and they can easily force said carrier to do the right thing by threatening to stop using them. It is easy for that carrier to ignore 1 costumer who will not use them as often, it is much harder for them to ignore SE that must likely send more then a few items through them.
Why SE should contact this carrier is also simple. 1: It is good PR, SE saved the day and all that. 2: It does not take much time and effort from SE to do this. 3: SE should be interested in knowing that they can trust said carrier, and if things go wrong that carrier will do the right thing.

My dad had a similar issue when he bought a model plane that was VERY expensive and it was stolen, and showed up in a nearby pawn shop. If the courier signed for your package, then your signature has been forged, and this is illegal. That makes it a criminal matter. Post fraud is a serious crime.

Have you asked DPD what their policy is on deliveries, have you seen the name/signature, and also did you have any options for leaving delivery notes when purchasing on the SE store? It's been a while since I last brought something from SE but on all occasions it was DPD handling them. A few times I wasn't home so they left a card for me to collect the item or arrange redelivery, but never any issues with forged signatures. Although no delivery company is perfect, I think lots of us have plenty of stories about some of them

I won't say it's fraud at this stage because it can work both ways, some customers have their items but still try to claim they didn't get it to try and get money back so these things require investigation. As SE is the sender, just keep on top of them to keep looking in to it and speaking with DPD, if after a certain period of time nothing is resolved them refunds will probably be arranged but I wouldn't expect anything immediately.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

The reason to contact SE is simple, they are the one who chose to use this carrier and they can easily force said carrier to do the right thing by threatening to stop using them. It is easy for that carrier to ignore 1 costumer who will not use them as often, it is much harder for them to ignore SE that must likely send more then a few items through them.
Why SE should contact this carrier is also simple. 1: It is good PR, SE saved the day and all that. 2: It does not take much time and effort from SE to do this. 3: SE should be interested in knowing that they can trust said carrier, and if things go wrong that carrier will do the right thing.

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None of which has anything to do with the investigation though. If I understood the OP right, the carrier told them they are waiting for SE to contact them in order for them to investigate the incident. While SE does hold some responsibility to the customer in supplying what was paid for, once the package ships it is out of SE’s hands and in the hands of the carrier, which is where it disappeared. Unless I’m missing something, they know where the package originated through tracking records, and it went missing somewhere between the OP’s local post office and home address, so PR aside, wouldn’t the only reason SE should need to get involved be to send out a replacement item?

Not really out of SEs hand. How almostall post/courier companies work, the customer is actually the sender. So any claims of missing stuff or other issue and inquiries has to come from the customer (who paid and ordered the delivery), not the recipient end.

OP, try to get in touch with live support for SE store, they tend to be faster. This is also a store thing and not ffxiv, in case you tried that support center.

Here's the which page on your rights, as it makes clear you need to get in touch with SE about this as it's there job to get the goods to you and DPD is employed by them.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...-what-can-i-do

here is there guide if the delivery is stolen

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...here-or-stolen

As it stand it looks like this is SE store's job to sort out.

Also you have the right to return a product 14 days after delivery, you could try doing this while explaining that the courier never delivered it. Might be better than rushing to a charge back.

I'm sorry I'm new this game what does SE stand for? I'm sorry about that, I assume Standard Edition?

Also, this is not a matter for Square Enix to handle. This is between you and the post office. I'm not a lawyer but as soon as Sqaure Enix sent the package that package is no longer their responsibility and is now responsibility of the postal service. So, for example, suppose you buy a watch at a store. On your way back to your car someone mugs you for the watch. You cannot return to the store and ask for another watch.

I'm America but we are also a common law country so our legal system is similar.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

I'm sorry I'm new this game what does SE stand for? I'm sorry about that, I assume Standard Edition?

Also, this is not a matter for Square Enix to handle. This is between you and the post office. I'm not a lawyer but as soon as Sqaure Enix sent the package that package is no longer their responsibility and is now responsibility of the postal service. So, for example, suppose you buy a watch at a store. On your way back to your car someone mugs you for the watch. You cannot return to the store and ask for another watch.

I'm America but we are also a common law country so our legal system is similar.

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SE is Square Enix, under UK law it's SE's responsibility to get what you ordered to you and as they hire the courier it is there responsibly to manage them.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

I'm sorry I'm new this game what does SE stand for? I'm sorry about that, I assume Standard Edition?

Also, this is not a matter for Square Enix to handle. This is between you and the post office. I'm not a lawyer but as soon as Sqaure Enix sent the package that package is no longer their responsibility and is now responsibility of the postal service. So, for example, suppose you buy a watch at a store. On your way back to your car someone mugs you for the watch. You cannot return to the store and ask for another watch.

I'm America but we are also a common law country so our legal system is similar.

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SE = Square Enix
But yeah, you are right about who's responsibility this is. The responsibility is on the person who is the last one to hold the item, in this case the carrier, and if he damages or loses the item all costs move to that said carrier. EU as whole likes to be super strict about postal stuff. Believe me, I have experience.
So yeah, this is no longer SE's issue but that post company's.

The sender is the customer of the delivery company, whether it be a national provider or private courier so it's up to them to investigate on behalf of their customer. Example if I buy something from China but I don't receive it or its delivered but I still don't have it, the sender in China has to start the investigation with the company they used on their side, it's general Universal Postal Union law for things to be done like that and the majority of countries are signatories to it.

But anyway back to this one, as mentioned OP just needs to keep on contact with SE and ensure they are doing something to resolve the issue whether it be refunded or a replacement item sent out.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

SE is Square Enix, under UK law it's SE's responsibility to get what you ordered to you and as they hire the courier it is there responsibly to manage them.

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Oh, thank you for that. I wonder is the Postal Service in the UK private?

In America most packages are delivered by private courier like UPS or FedEx while general mail is delivered by the US Postal service. In general but there there are exceptions. Businesses, like Amazon, contract with exclusive couriers with requirements such as if the package is not received the private company compensates the company. That's why companies like UPS and Fedex all carry liability insurance. The US Postal Service, does automatic insurance of packages which is factored into the price of the postage with the option of the buyer or seller to buy more insurance depending on the value of the item.

That is why I ask if the Postal Service is Public or Private in the UK. If either there should be some liability insurance involved. The only difficulty is it was signed for, but it may be easy for the OP to argue that is not his signature.

Ultimately, I still think this is out of Enix's hands.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

Oh, thank you for that. I wonder is the Postal Service in the UK private?

In America most packages are delivered by private courier like UPS or FedEx while general mail is delivered by the US Postal service. In general but there there are exceptions. Businesses, like Amazon, contract with exclusive couriers with requirements such as if the package is not received the private company compensates the company. That's why companies like UPS and Fedex all carry liability insurance. The US Postal Service, does automatic insurance of packages which is factored into the price of the postage with the option of the buyer or seller to buy more insurance depending on the value of the item.

That is why I ask if the Postal Service is Public or Private in the UK. If either there should be some liability insurance involved. The only difficulty is it was signed for, but it may be easy for the OP to argue that is not his signature.

Ultimately, I still think this is out of Enix's hands.

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The UK post office agency was privatised a few years back, though we've had private couriers for awhile, this issue at face value is SE's problem as they have to get the OPs goods to her. She is not directly involved with the courier as SE has hired them to deliver it on there behalf and if the courier has failed to deliver it as par SE instruction then that is SE's problem but does not change there responsibility to get the OP the goods she has paid for.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

The UK post office agency was privatised a few years back, though we've had private couriers for awhile, this issue at face value is SE's problem as they have to get the OPs goods to her. She is not directly involved with the courier as SE has hired them to deliver it on there behalf and if the courier has failed to deliver it as par SE instruction then that is SE's problem but does not change there responsibility to get the OP the goods she has paid for.

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Oh, the problem then is the privatization of the Post Office. I'm sorry if I pry into your countries politics but I lived in England for a period of time while going to school there. This was in 2002 during the time of 9/11 and I returned back in around 2005 for a short holiday to visit friends. From what I remember the UK was not part of the EU. But it seems along with the EU came things like Privatization of Historically public institutions. Before Brexit occurred, I even heard of talk of privatization of the NHS. As an American observer I support Brexit. The Americans I'm among feel the same way and I have to believe there are many of us who feel the same way here.

I never quite understood the controversy over Brexit. The UK like other countries including Scandinavia (never been there, never want to go there) kept their currency and financial institutions. To me, Brexit is just a border and immigration dispute in the sense, the UK wants the right to control it's own Passports. But with Theresa May (who I do not believe was ever voted into office after Cameron stepped down) it seems to take on some odd dimensions. By the way I'm surprised an English woman is named May and Theresa in England, it doesn't seem very Anglican to me. It almost seems like someone calling someone Adolf in Germany especially for an Anglican country. It seems in some way in the last two years our countries conservatives have migrated towards your country.

Sad day for us Americans where there is nothing we can do about or government or the bad economy. Most of us play FF14 because we were professionals who cannot find jobs. The only problem, the unemployment survey does not call our houses. These things are not random. I assume our real unemployment here is about twenty percent with the employment survey only contacting certain people and not others.

This is the kind of talk we have on FF14 online all the time which makes this game revolutionary.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

This was in 2002 during the time of 9/11 and I returned back in around 2005 for a short holiday to visit friends. From what I remember the UK was not part of the EU.

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UK has been a member from before it was even called EU, joining in the 70s.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

The UK like other countries including Scandinavia (never been there, never want to go there) kept their currency and financial institutions.

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Scandinavia isn't a country. The countries that are in EU are indeed not using euro.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

BREXIT, voting misconception and other wtf

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Maybe not the forum for political opinion, especially with the information level.


But for the topic, SE is indeed responsible. Couriers have indeed insurance, but you hve misunderstood how it works. This is sub-contracting. SE is the customer of the courier company. You are the customer of SE. Therefore, you have to raise the issue with SE and they inquire from their contractor. Then, if lost and refunded, SE refunds you and seeks the lost value from the courier company, which claims this from it's insurance.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

This is the kind of talk we have on FF14 online all the time which makes this game revolutionary.

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You're having this kind of conversation via FFXIV but that doesn't mean the game itself is remarkable for letting you do that. You could be having the same conversation anywhere you can talk with other people, online or not.

It's a good game, but you don't need to overhype it by attributing things to it that don't really have much to do with the game itself.

Thank you all for the replies ^_^, I have some kind of update.

I contacted SE with a fresh support ticket including some of your advice (I'd report them to trading standards/should probably talk to the police about the potential forgery etc..) and that I want the item I had purchased... and by """"coincidence"""" they replied to my original ticket mere hours later. They said they finally contacted the courier and will be giving them the info they need, and will update me soon™. I guess i'll give them till next week, and if I don't hear back by then actually file the complaint/maybe seek a chargeback refund like many of you suggested (though i'm still worried about it jeopardising my SE account).

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Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

Thank you all for the replies ^_^, I have some kind of update.

I contacted SE with a fresh support ticket including some of your advice (I'd report them to trading standards/should probably talk to the police about the potential forgery etc..) and that I want the item I had purchased... and by """"coincidence"""" they replied to my original ticket mere hours later. They said they finally contacted the courier and will be giving them the info they need, and will update me soon™. I guess i'll give them till next week, and if I don't hear back by then actually file the complaint/maybe seek a chargeback refund like many of you suggested (though i'm still worried about it jeopardising my SE account).

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If it reaches the point where you just want your money back, make sure to request a full refund first and then give them the opportunity to refund it. If you force the refund, they are very likely to take your account with it.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

None of which has anything to do with the investigation though. If I understood the OP right, the carrier told them they are waiting for SE to contact them in order for them to investigate the incident. While SE does hold some responsibility to the customer in supplying what was paid for, once the package ships it is out of SE’s hands and in the hands of the carrier, which is where it disappeared. Unless I’m missing something, they know where the package originated through tracking records, and it went missing somewhere between the OP’s local post office and home address, so PR aside, wouldn’t the only reason SE should need to get involved be to send out a replacement item?

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It would make the carrier more willing to investigate. I say that has something to do with an investigation being started... but seriously, that carrier should be interested in finding out if someone working for them has stolen an item they were shipping, that shit is bad for business.

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Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

(...)and if I don't hear back by then actually file the complaint/maybe seek a chargeback refund like many of you suggested (though i'm still worried about it jeopardising my SE account).

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From what I saw on these forums, chargeback for ANY reason is instant, permanent ban that they won't bother even discussing. Someone lost an account because his bank automatically made a chargeback due to a high amount of smaller payments or something like that and the bank algorithm considered it suspicious. He was banned and Square Enix supposedly didn't care.

If you will want your money back, request THEM to give you the money back, not the bank. It may take more time, but I doubt you want to throw away all that you earned for several years just to save time. If you had the extra money to buy the encyclopedia in the first place, you won't be jeopardized by waiting.

I used to work in fraud for a large fortune 500 company (NDA prevents me from disclosing which one, but you have heard of them). If someone had a chargeback from the bank, and tried to purchase with us again, we always had to use higher scrutiny to determine if they had previously been a victim, or they were a serial charge-backer. In some cases, we held orders and refused to sell products to people unless they paid the back charges.

Back when I played FFXI, Kikix12's story played out on an unofficial forum, and that person's account was permanently banned, no reversal. They will subsequently refuse any more accounts on your credit card and ban them outright or refuse to accept that card. Nothing short of requesting a new CC number from your back will get around it. This is non-negotiable. Requesting a chargeback against SE is not a good idea. They will refuse to do any further business with you in any capacity.

As irritating as it is, just play the long game full of legal loopholes. I know it sucks having a package stolen. Hell, someone stole a product I bought off answer in August. Luckily, it was 3 cans of air duster, so literally this person stole my air, but the seller did send a replacement. If the courier stole your book, the courier company will investigate. They don't need a thieving employee. That's bad for business. Likely, this won't have been the 1st package that went missing in that courier's care.

Do not risk requesting a charge back, a guildie of ours had an issue with their bank and SE check out where it charged them multiple times, and he called his bank to cancel the payments since they were still processing bank did not do that they waited for them to post and just issued a charge back. He tried to explain the situation and have either the items revoked from his account or if he could rebuy the items. I was going to give him my card so he could pay the chargeback back so to speak. SE customer service while understandable had their tied.

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Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

Thanks for your advice, but this:



is why I was hesitating to avoid the chargeback. And I actually want my book >_<



I did message them, they told me they are trying to get a response from the merchant but there's nothing. I don't know about contacting the police, this seems more like a civil matter than a criminal one :/ I'll try a fresh support ticket using the advice I found here https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...een-delivered/ I guess, if they still don't reply I guess i'll have to try the charge back, which makes me pretty nervous.

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Forging anyone's signature is a crime in any first world country.

For your continued reading.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...7/body/enacted
This is the law in regards to forgery in the UK.
You have stated that the post courier forged your signature. This is crime. This needs to be reported and punished. To not do so is to support the courier in further such acts, and to be an accessory to further crimes. Protect yourself, and protect your society.