A question for the BLU peeps

Would have rather had the class

A) Added like it is.

B) Added like a normal class but gutted to the point it wasn't really a BLU mage just to fit into the role system

or

C) Not added at all?

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Originally Posted by Izanagi_Fiaresu

Would have rather had the class

A) Added like it is.

B) Added like a normal class but gutted to the point it wasn't really a BLU mage just to fit into the role system

or

C) Not added at all?

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I'll go with the "added like it is and then a full version of the job or a curated and balanced spell set is added to let the job be used in the full game at a later date" option.

Not everyone views blue mage identity as something that is so wrapped up in what the spells have been programed to do in any given entry in the FF franchise. Many of us would accept spells that gave a similar feeling and they could take on an additional function as well. There have been many blue magic spells that have gone through several iterations so what's wrong with XIV having its own versions?

Added like it is. What's the point of rewriting something or gutting it to oblivion just to add it for game balance? If we wanted another mage, they could give us another mage. But people specifically wanted the Blue Mage- not a watered down mage who carries the name Blue Mage.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Added like it is. What's the point of rewriting something or gutting it to oblivion just to add it for game balance? If we wanted another mage, they could give us another mage. But people specifically wanted the Blue Mage- not a watered down mage who carries the name Blue Mage.

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A lot of people wanted a blue mage that works in the full game like all the other previous combat jobs. We are not asking for the to rewrite or gut what they have already announced. We are asking for them to ADD what the ability for the job to work in the full game. If you don't want that then there will still be the solo stuff to play with.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Added like it is. What's the point of rewriting something or gutting it to oblivion just to add it for game balance? If we wanted another mage, they could give us another mage. But people specifically wanted the Blue Mage- not a watered down mage who carries the name Blue Mage.

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Speak for yourself. There's literally no point in this job when you can't do anything relevant with it.

And "watered down" like the 3 existing casters? Why does Blue Mage get favouritism in this regard? Why is "job identity" all of sudden such an important thing that they essentially quarantined the job from everyone else?

If there was a choice between no BLU and this DOA trashpile we got, I'd literally choose nothing. No joke.

I'll wait until it's out to comment.

I did want to main BLU, though.

I haven't played MMOs long enough to really have much of impactful opinion, considering my MMO life started back in 3.56. In truth, I am in a 'wait and see' mode. It has me curious and I happen to be a solo player, so I don't have much angst towards the job.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I haven't played MMOs long enough to really have much of impactful opinion, considering my MMO life started back in 3.56. In truth, I am in a 'wait and see' mode. It has me curious and I happen to be a solo player, so I don't have much angst towards the job.

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It's fine it's getting the solo content and very few on our side are against it. We would just like the ability to use blue mage throughout the full game as you can any other DoW or DoM.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

It's fine it's getting the solo content and very few on our side are against it. We would just like the ability to use blue mage throughout the full game as you can any other DoW or DoM.

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Same. I would like the ability to raid with it. I mean, I love NIN and I guess I'm actually good with BRD, but I want a caster that I can main.

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Originally Posted by Izanagi_Fiaresu

B) Added like a normal class but gutted to the point it wasn't really a BLU mage just to fit into the role system

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Have you ever heard of the concept of a biased survey question? This is a textbook example.

You clearly have an opinion already you're dying to share. If you want to say your peace just go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Tlachtga

And "watered down" like the 3 existing casters? Why does Blue Mage get favouritism in this regard? Why is "job identity" all of sudden such an important thing that they essentially quarantined the job from everyone else?

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It's not just job identity, the whole "we don't want them kicked out of parties or what not because they're missing skills" is also something that literally any other job in the game suffers from, but suddenly matters for BLU. Because that WHM without regen or GLA without Soul Crystal in Aurum Vale isn't a problem? Heck people without their level 70 job quests is part of why Shinru was such a pain for so long, but you don't see them slapping a requirement for that on the trial.
BLU, tho? WE MUST PROTECT THE PLAYERS. Riiiiight.

Gonna go with option D - "why not both?"

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

It's not just job identity, the whole "we don't want them kicked out of parties or what not because they're missing skills" is also something that literally any other job in the game suffers from, but suddenly matters for BLU. Because that WHM without regen or GLA without Soul Crystal in Aurum Vale isn't a problem? Heck people without their level 70 job quests is part of why Shinru was such a pain for so long, but you don't see them slapping a requirement for that on the trial.
BLU, tho? WE MUST PROTECT THE PLAYERS. Riiiiight.

Gonna go with option D - "why not both?"

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I don't understand that they thought the solution was to keep blu out of matchmaking. Shouldn't it have been "if you're concerned about getting kicked for missing a spell then ask your friends or make a pre-made group"?

Gonna wait and see how it feels to play.

I'm fairly neutral on this and will wait patiently to see what we get. At worst I drop it and never touch it again; otherwise it could be a fun thing to do in between content patches.

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Originally Posted by Izanagi_Fiaresu

Would have rather had the class:
A) Added like it is.
B) Added like a normal class but gutted to the point it wasn't really a BLU mage just to fit into the role system
C) Not added at all?

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I'd rather have had a proper job that's also a proper Blue mage.

Rather suspiciously that option is missing from your post.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Even with a choice of soulstone that could allow BLU to fit any role, it will be shoehorned into the role it is the most optimal in along with only a handful of the skills out of all the ones you've spent who knows how much time racking up.

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There are pretty much required spells on XI's blu depending on if you're going as melee or cleaving caster with many spells becoming obsolete as you level and STILL it's one of the most popular jobs in that game. I don't believe it would be an issue in 14 especially since you could just target the spells for the roles you are interested in and not worry about the others.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It truly is idealistic thinking it can fit into the game in its current state, and even more so to think it can come in so late into an expansion and hop right into the current raid tier. We can argue that they have successfully integrated jobs like RDM, WAR, and NIN, but BLU is a literally a whole different kind of animal to take on and bring into XIV. There are at least others willing to give this version of BLU a go because it presumably will allow the freedom for them to not only acquire a wide range of monster skills, but equip and use them at their leisure.

As a limited job, BLU does not have to conform to the game as we know it. Like this it has far more flexibility than it would if it was restricted by the holy trinity system this game uses now.

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I don't think that poster was advocating for them to just remove the restrictions from blu and that would be the end of the process. Actually, I don't really see anyone saying to just make blu work in the full game before 5.0 releases. Most of us seem to be fine with waiting for them to do the updates like they said IF we knew that by 6.0 we would have blu available for the FULL game. Many that seem to be fine or excited with this iteration of blue mage didn't see to want to main the job while many of us that are upset did want to main it. Trying to sell us on limited jobs won't work because we view the cost as being too much. Take away that cost and we wouldn't mind if there's this solo side content. A lot of us have already said it looks fun but we can't support the price tag.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

I'll go with the "added like it is and then a full version of the job or a curated and balanced spell set is added to let the job be used in the full game at a later date" option.

Not everyone views blue mage identity as something that is so wrapped up in what the spells have been programed to do in any given entry in the FF franchise. Many of us would accept spells that gave a similar feeling and they could take on an additional function as well. There have been many blue magic spells that have gone through several iterations so what's wrong with XIV having its own versions?

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Yeah, everything this guy said. I'm sensing some bias on OP's part.

The both option seems to be missing, but okay.


That said, combat jobs get put into a role no matter what, always have been. BLU's identity is not being roleless, it is just learning and using monster spells. Full Stop.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

BLU HAS to be assigned a role, and the skills it would acquire would serve to fit that role. We can't underestimate the meta. They would have to acquire the optimal skills; some of which could potentially step on the toes of our current jobs. Even with a choice of soulstone that could allow BLU to fit any role, it will be shoehorned into the role it is the most optimal in along with only a handful of the skills out of all the ones you've spent who knows how much time racking up.

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Except BLU has never been this, even in earlier final fantasy games what made BLU unique was the ability to use monster skills, in the same way that what made NIN unique was the ability to literally throw items for ridiculous amounts of damage, the learning of skills were never what made BLU, BLU. I mean learning skills have always been rapidly different in each game, take Khimari from X, probably my favorite iteration of BLU because lancet made learning skills NOT such a crap shoot of waiting for enemies to actually hit you, the only times this was interesting is when you could manipulate enemies into attacking you(something which required other jobs).

Using optimal skills is--well pretty much what BLU was, and has always been, you never use EVERY single skill you've learned in a battle. Not once, you have a set of very powerful skills that you learn and use at later points in the game, early game things like goblin punch and aero are abandoned late game. Skills like moon flute are almost never utilized, why? because they're bad skills, using monster abilities against monsters is what made BLU unique(for me anyway) and is what cemented it's identity as a job.

Therefore I honestly don't see how BLU could be in any way more difficult to implement than something like RDM, which is KNOWN for it's versatility and repertoire of low level spells and being a jack of all trades, it just doesn't make any sense to me that they NEED to draw a line with BLU, that BLU is the single most complex Job that just can't fit into XIV's system. I honestly can't see it, heck SMN should have been where they drew this line if anything.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

As a limited job, BLU does not have to conform to the game as we know it. Like this it has far more flexibility than it would if it was restricted by the holy trinity system this game uses now.

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I'm sorry but I just--don't agree with this, BLU conceptually from what we've been shown is less free than every other job currently in the game. It's own unique content, the carnival, is a solo player instance and it's locked to level 50. This isn't me saying that BLU will be bad at launch, but it is in every shape and form less free than every other job right now.

Will BLU be bad? I don't know, I can't know. However was this the ONLY way to implement it in XIV? I don't think so and I really genuinely hope that they don't draw this kind of conclusion for future jobs.

Hi:

I'm a new player and the only FF games I have played are 7 and 14, so I'm not certain of the history of the Blue Mage.

Somethings to think about from someone who loves this game but is new to the franchise:

1) Remember this is a new class/job from a patch separate and before Shadowbringer
2) So I suspect, somehow, we as the players are sort of beta testing this character so the FF team can decide how to update him in Shadowbringer.
3) I think if before and after BLU comes out if we add our suggestions consistently this class/job will get better.
4) Remember we actually do have a say in this world because so many requested BLU that they listened to us, I gather.


Suggestions

1) Limited class until a certain number of solid skills/techniques are acquired. (essentially separate from the rest of the game until a good solid book of spells is created)
2) After the book of spells are developed, the game approves the character to migrate to a regular role in the game through a series of Class Quests leading to a Dungeon where party activity is tested.

So start separate from the rest of the game and then migrate the character in once the spells are collected with the game guiding in what kinds or class of spells are needed to make that migration. Otherwise the character is free to be played alone.

C.

I would rather have seen something new and unique to XIV.

Sorry, just to clarify my comment: solo until certain spell requirements are met then through class quests migrate the character to the general game.

I would have preferred an OP that wasn't so clearly biased.

I'll pick D) Have it all.

People who think Blu has to absolutely be gutted to take part of main content are people who are not thinking large enough, which is incidentally how the devs are thinking.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

I don't see why we couldn't have BLU mage be truthful to what it was

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Because BLU is historically one of the few jobs that don't learn spells by simply leveling or buying them in shops, you have to go out of the way to gather them. The other popular job to have that kind of mechanic is SMN, and people still complain about how it's not truthful to what it shoud be.

It's not unreasonable to have a BLU missing some skills or a SMN missing a few summons, but, in a system that's built on random matchmaking, it could be a real issue, either for the BLU itself or the party he's randomly put into.

They also mentionned Beastmaster and Puppetmaster as ideas for limited jobs, and again, those jobs need to collect things to be really efficient. I really think that's the deciding factor.

Take BLM, rename it's skills and you get the BLU you want so badly.

It won't do element damage or anything unique in a fight which then begs the question: Why do you want a reskinned BLM so badly?

I vote A. It's different from everything else and that gives me motivation to play it. If it was what people want, I wouldn't even unlock it as I already have a BLM.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

They also mentionned Beastmaster and Puppetmaster as idea for limited jobs, and again, those jobs need to collect things to be really efficient. I really think that's the deciding factor.

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You know what I'd have loved to see for this sort of thing? Them creating a system that blocks your entry to duties based on the acquisition of certain skills. Especially if there are several jobs that can benefit from it so it's not a one time investment for BLU. You want to join the leveling roulette at level 50? Great! You need skills 1-20 for BLU, puppets or what not 1-20, and such and such beasts. They won't play optimally? Guess what, it's not limited to those jobs.

What gets me is that the whole "you can't learn it through leveling" thing is rubbish. We're two expansions in where the job skills you get are locked to your job, and don't come from your class. Lore wise, this means that we learned the skill from the Soul Crystal.
You want to go into DF as a BLU? Here are the enemy skills the BLUs who had the crystal before you learned. You want to learn skills on your own? Sure thing bruh, have fun with your side-content. You're padding the Soul Crystal for the next BLU who'll come after you. But at the same time you're ready for DF.

I would even argue that such a thing can be applied to Beastmaster and Puppetmaster, if they say that the 'beasts' and 'puppets' are aetherial constructs like SCH's fairy. But all the more so, in the case of BLU, they had at the ready a lore explanation for skills that both can be learned through leveling, and that are still enemy skills. But they chose not to use it.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I vote A. It's different from everything else and that gives me motivation to play it. If it was what people want, I wouldn't even unlock it as I already have a BLM.

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And yet SMN and RDM aren't BLM reskins so I'm not sure why you think the devs would've dished that out for BLU. Ironically, the people who are against BLU being locked seem to have much more faith in the devs than you do.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

There are pretty much required spells on XI's blu depending on if you're going as melee or cleaving caster with many spells becoming obsolete as you level and STILL it's one of the most popular jobs in that game. I don't believe it would be an issue in 14 especially since you could just target the spells for the roles you are interested in and not worry about the others.

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This isn't XI though. XI has it's own engine that operates differently from XIV. BLU won't have the choice go as a melee or a caster. In raiding content, it will be assigned a slot, and that is where it will go. The way BLU is coming into XIV now is actually more similar to how I remember playing it in XI than it would be if brought in to fit into current content in XIV. If brought in to fit current content, BLU would be closer to the casters we already have. Do you really want that? Just think about our SMN class before answering that.

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Actually, I don't really see anyone saying to just make blu work in the full game before 5.0 releases. Most of us seem to be fine with waiting for them to do the updates like they said IF we knew that by 6.0 we would have blu available for the FULL game.

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If this is truly the case, then it's time for those concerned about this version of BLU coming into FFXIV to wait things out and see how things go. SE can't brush this aside like how they have with the squadron and companion systems. They are going to have to continuously keep BLU updated. They are going to have to allow progression into lv60, 70, and 80. If they rely on heavy RNG to acquire skills to stretch things out, it's going to be bad.

I think you are partially correct though. A lot of the initial shock has become calm, but that doesn't mean that players still aren't chomping at the bit already for 5.0 announcements concerning BLU. As it is now, if you are on board then when 4.5 comes give it a go. It definitely isn't going to be tough to do pre-made parties with all them that will be running around.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Because BLU is historically one of the few jobs that don't learn spells by simply leveling or buying them in shops, you have to go out of the way to gather them. The other popular job to have that kind of mechanic is SMN, and people still complain about how it's not truthful to what it shoud be.

It's not unreasonable to have a BLU missing some skills or a SMN missing a few summons, but, in a system that's built on random matchmaking, it could be a real issue, either for the BLU itself or the party he's randomly put into.

They also mentionned Beastmaster and Puppetmaster as ideas for limited jobs, and again, those jobs need to collect things to be really efficient. I really think that's the deciding factor.

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This doesn't really make sense because, BLU has always been gated from learning certain spells based off of what level it is, there are very clear early, mid, and end game sets of skills that you are supposed to learn in order, Aero, Aero II and Aero III being examples from V.

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Take BLM, rename it's skills and you get the BLU you want so badly.

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You could have literally said the same thing for RDM, BLU just by it's gimmick of using monster abilities wouldn't even be a caster, it could EASILY be a melee dps as a large amount of it's repitoire and monster abilities as a whole are physical. I mean, every single BLU has used some sort of physical weapon vs a magical one.

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I vote A. It's different from everything else and that gives me motivation to play it. If it was what people want, I wouldn't even unlock it as I already have a BLM.

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It's no different from Atma farming however, so if you have your relic would you just not do it? why are you comparing it to BLM when...they're two fundamentally different jobs? is WHM just BLM except it heals? I don't think so you're oversimplifying to an almost criminal degree.

I suppose we should just never add in another magic caster dps because they'd all just be BLM and no one would want to play it then huh?

A for me.
I´m looking forward to BLU.
It being limited to 50 at first is ok, Yoshi already said, the lvl will get higher with SH patches.
Premade grps work, so no problem with partyfinder.
Having its own solo-content at 50 sounds really good.
And hunting for the spells ... well... I actually like grinding.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You want to join the leveling roulette at level 50? Great! You need skills 1-20 for BLU, puppets or what not 1-20, and such and such beasts. They won't play optimally? Guess what, it's not limited to those jobs.

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This has come several times, and it wouldn't work. First, there's nothing saying that BLU spells will have a level (Probably even the opposite), so 1-20 doesn't even make sense. Second, even if BLU spells have a level, if you can only equip 10 spells over choice of 15, this could still create an argument because you prefer to use some spells over another while someone else disagree. Worst case scenario, some of those spells/pet/attachments might even be really hard to get, so it's expected that not everyone will have them.

I you want a little fun, imagine if jobs could only equip 8 of their 14 skills.You would end with tanks without their tank stance in roulettes...

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

What gets me is that the whole "you can't learn it through leveling" thing is rubbish. We're two expansions in where the job skills you get are locked to your job, and don't come from your class. Lore wise, this means that we learned the skill from the Soul Crystal.

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This has been said multiple times. If BLU doesn't learn monster skills from actually seeking them, doesn't have a wide varitey of offensive spells because elements don't matter, and doesn't have powerful support spells, because it still need to be a DPS and must be balanced with everything else, what's the difference between a Blue Mage or a Red Mage/Black Mage dressed in Blue ?

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I would even argue that such a thing can be applied to Beastmaster and Puppetmaster, if they say that the 'beasts' and 'puppets' are aetherial constructs like SCH's fairy.

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Puppets works nothing like SCH's fairy. For once, we can't avoid the FFXI comparison, since PUP appeared only in XI. The variety of head, body and attachments completely changes how PUP perform in a party, yet alone a trinity based party.

The dev team is still afraid that matchmaking would collapse if they offered talent trees and special items bonuses for jobs that are completely locked into a role, how can you imagine allowing choices in hybrid jobs so that random grouping would still be ok ?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

They are going to have to allow progression into lv60, 70, and 80.

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They don't have to do anything, and going by what Yoshi said in Fanfest, I doubt they'll let it be 80 anytime before the rest of us can hit 90. And that's one thing that worries me about BLU. Ok, Masked Carnival, cool. And then what? They actually have no reason to up the level cap without providing it with new content, in which case constantly feeding the one job content can be seen with scrutiny. Any other content more or less lets you pick what class to run it on based on your preference, so jobs keep getting content by virtue of the game at large expanding. BLU will be limited, content-wise and gameplay-wise. So we're at a contradiction - it doesn't sound like they'll let it hit level cap, but at the same time, if it doesn't... what then?

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If they rely on heavy RNG to acquire skills to stretch things out, it's going to be bad.

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Sounds like that's where it's going.

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It definitely isn't going to be tough to do pre-made parties with all them that will be running around.

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Not on release, no. What happens when the hype dies down?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

This has been said multiple times. If BLU doesn't learn monster skills from actually seeking them, doesn't have a wide varitey of offensive spells because elements don't matter, and doesn't have powerful support spells, because it still need to be a DPS and must be balanced with everything else, what's the difference between a Blue Mage or a Red Mage/Black Mage dressed in Blue ?

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You do realize BLM and RDM play differently, right? By that logic, we should limit it to one job per role and call it a way. Also depending on who you ask in the forums, BLU seems to be just someone who uses enemy attacks, so it would still abide by that criteria. And you missed the part where I didn't say to gut the solo skill-hunting part. So you know.

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The dev team is still afraid that matchmaking would collapse if they offered talent trees and special items bonuses for jobs that are completely locked into a role, how can you imagine allowing choices in hybrid jobs so that random grouping would still be ok ?

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I don't expect them to offer choices outside of those jobs' "limited job" content.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

Take BLM, rename it's skills and you get the BLU you want so badly.

It won't do element damage or anything unique in a fight which then begs the question: Why do you want a reskinned BLM so badly?

I vote A. It's different from everything else and that gives me motivation to play it. If it was what people want, I wouldn't even unlock it as I already have a BLM.

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But it's not new or different at all. It is literally Logos actions. And yes, while Logos Actions are fun, nobody is asking for SE to water it down. What we're asking for on our side is a fundamental change later down the line. Usually in the form of a curated spell list that goes into effect in actual, relevant content. This could take until 6.0. I repeat, nobody is asking that SE can BLU's development cycle, the neat side content, or make a "watered down BLM clone". This is not a "Us VS Them" scenario.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

They are going to have to continuously keep BLU updated. They are going to have to allow progression into lv60, 70, and 80. If they rely on heavy RNG to acquire skills to stretch things out, it's going to be bad.

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And those are the problems for me. Remember Egi Glamour and them promising more in later patches? Yeah we still did not get another glamour after carbuncle. A lot of other mini games are left behind in this game so what gives the safety that they will be better with Blue? And how often should they update it? Every patch? Every second patch? Once per expansion? And wouldnt each and every one of these updates and changes not kinda take away from the rest of the game since they have a restriction on how much they can do. What will happen later if they truly introduce more limited jobs?

They also already pointed out that level updates will happen with Shadowbringer patches, thus I doubt that it will ever be max level in a expansion because that would 100% mess up raids. They also stated that this would be a limited job and mostly solo so there is no promise that we will get the highest level in this.

They also hinted that you will have to grind monsters to get the skills, that there is only a chance to get one. That sounds a lot like RNG and knowing SE this will probably be quite harsh because this content needs to be stretched.

About OP: Not going to answer the question if its already that biased.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

I'll go with the "added like it is and then a full version of the job or a curated and balanced spell set is added to let the job be used in the full game at a later date" option.

Not everyone views blue mage identity as something that is so wrapped up in what the spells have been programed to do in any given entry in the FF franchise. Many of us would accept spells that gave a similar feeling and they could take on an additional function as well. There have been many blue magic spells that have gone through several iterations so what's wrong with XIV having its own versions?

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This conversation is gonna go round and around again...

Ok.

It's not about the specific spells, but rather about how the class functions on Paper. ON PAPER, the class learns specialty skills from monsters. The skills learned are unique compared to other classes, because monster skills broadly are made to be drastically more powerful in the games dynamics. Bad breath, as an example, is not super Overpowered in the regards of a monster casting it on a group due to how the balance is set. This is because monsters, on average, are more powerful pound for pound than players are. This then forces players to group up and coordinate to take down monsters. HOWEVER, this same spell in REVERSE would be exceptionally powerful against monsters. Applying Multiple Status effects + damage to a large AoE is incredibly powerful.

To offset that power, you would have to mitigate the skills output. Remove much of its damage, range, and status effects to make it on par with other classes. In this case, Bad breath would probably have a range similar to Overpower, at most 1 status effect, and deal moderate damage. If it had more than one status effect, it would be given a long cooldown. You have to make the skills comparable to other classes in output. If the skill gets weakened down to that point, than bad breath just becomes a reskinned version of already pre-existing skills.

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Ok so whats wrong with that?

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There isnt anything wrong with that, but now you have to change up how the class functions. You have to start incorporating a priority/rotation system into how the class plays so the class has actual gameplay and challange. All classes have this to some extent. As a comparison, BLM has the Ice/Fire management among using CDs, RDM has hte Light/DRK system and its procs, SUMMONER has aetherflow and Bahamut gauge. The classes are designed to have a system to how the spells are used. BLU would have to have a system of that kind implemented.

What would that mean for BLU then? It would change what BLU is on paper. ON PAPER, BLU is a mage who learns its skills from Monsters and then uses those same said skills. However, if the skills are dumb downed to be on par with all the other classes, this becomes a super gimmicky way to learn your skills compared to all the other classes, and what it then does offer is just a new rotation/priority system for you to play. This isnt what people were asking for. People wanted to use Monster skills, and they did not mean that as merely reskinned versions of already existing skills. The argument to just "Balance it for party play" means making it just a reskinned BLM/SMN/RDM. And this ISNT what people wanted.

I honestly believe the biggest issue is people do not understand that to balance the class for party play would result in many of the skills being gutted. It's assumed that it would be "Easy" to balance the class and the devs are just lazy. This stems from people not actually thinking about how the balance would actually be handled realistically. Its super easy to say "Yeah Ill just reduce the damage and maybe knock off a few status effects and Bad Breath will be balanced", but in reality, a class that could cast a spell with multiple status effects at once in an aoe is powerful. Notice how NO other class has that functionality. And thats just one skill.

And in regards to "Create a solo play version" and a "Party Play Version", youre essentially asking the Devs to create two classes that happen to have the same name. Which is the biggest rub of all: It feels an awful lot like people who want the party version of blue dont actually give a butt about the class on paper. They just want a caster thats called BLUE MAGE for party, even if it ends up being a re-skin of an existing caster.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

This doesn't really make sense because, BLU has always been gated from learning certain spells based off of what level it is

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No, the only time BLU has ever been gated by level is in FFXI. For every other game, it's just that later monsters tend to teach more powerful spells, and it has nothing to do with the level you are to learn or use a spell. That's exactly why, in FFV, you only have Blue! instead of Blue1! to Blue6!. More importantly, in FFV, Blue Magic is learned by the party, which means a high level Master Blue Bartz could learn a spell usable by a very low level Blue 0 Krile.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

there are very clear early, mid, and end game sets of skills that you are supposed to learn in order, Aero, Aero II and Aero III being examples from V.

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No one cares what the order you're supposed to learn spells. White, Black and Red Mages don't have a choice of learning lower tier before higher ones.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

They don't have to do anything, and going by what Yoshi said in Fanfest, I doubt they'll let it be 80 anytime before the rest of us can hit 90.

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Problem is, they didn't confirmed anything on that. They only said that BLU's cap will increase later.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You do realize BLM and RDM play differently, right? By that logic, we should limit it to one job per role and call it a way.

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Indeed, they managed to create a gimmick for RDM, and people are ok because eveybody know that making a RDM master of none would have made it useless in group content, so they were open.

Now that I think of it, you said something really interesting :

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

We're two expansions in where the job skills you get are locked to your job, and don't come from your class. Lore wise, this means that we learned the skill from the Soul Crystal.

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You're right, but BLU isn't an expansion job. And you don't know how it will be managed when it enters expansion territory.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I don't expect them to offer choices outside of those jobs' "limited job" content.

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But on the other hand, it could open the door for more limited features and choices. Talent and item special bonuses could be deactivated in matchmaking but usable in premade.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Because BLU is historically one of the few jobs that don't learn spells by simply leveling or buying them in shops, you have to go out of the way to gather them. The other popular job to have that kind of mechanic is SMN, and people still complain about how it's not truthful to what it shoud be.

It's not unreasonable to have a BLU missing some skills or a SMN missing a few summons, but, in a system that's built on random matchmaking, it could be a real issue, either for the BLU itself or the party he's randomly put into.

They also mentionned Beastmaster and Puppetmaster as ideas for limited jobs, and again, those jobs need to collect things to be really efficient. I really think that's the deciding factor.

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Then make it a requirement that you know some or all of the spells before unlocking the job for the rest of the game. Or tell the people that are so worried about being kicked for this reason to make groups with friends or use premade finder. Tell them to use one of the options available to them instead of taking away an option from everyone.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, the only time BLU has ever been gated by level is in FFXI. For every other game, it's just that later monsters tend to teach more powerful spells, and it has nothing to do with the level you are to learn or use a spell. That's exactly why, in FFV, you only have Blue! instead of Blue1! to Blue6!. More importantly, in FFV, Blue Magic is learned by the party, which means a high level Master Blue Bartz could learn a spell usable by a very low level Blue 0 Krile.

No one cares what the order you're supposed to learn spells. White, Black and Red Mages don't have a choice of learning lower tier before higher ones.

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Do you know for sure there won't be a level requirement to learning spells? They already said they were will be job quests so maybe you get a trait from them to learn the higher level spells. And even in the past FF games that didn't require a level to learn, you basically were still level locked away from spells because you had to progress in the story to get to those enemies and be capable of defeating them.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

Take BLM, rename it's skills and you get the BLU you want so badly.
It won't do element damage or anything unique in a fight which then begs the question: Why do you want a reskinned BLM so badly?
I vote A. It's different from everything else and that gives me motivation to play it. If it was what people want, I wouldn't even unlock it as I already have a BLM.

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This is at least the second time I've seen you post this and you never respond to when we say that the blue spells are ALREADY reskinned spells or taken from eureka. That they can function differently though like how rdm and blm spells don't serve the same function for their unique mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This isn't XI though. XI has it's own engine that operates differently from XIV. BLU won't have the choice go as a melee or a caster. In raiding content, it will be assigned a slot, and that is where it will go. The way BLU is coming into XIV now is actually more similar to how I remember playing it in XI than it would be if brought in to fit into current content in XIV. If brought in to fit current content, BLU would be closer to the casters we already have. Do you really want that? Just think about our SMN class before answering that.


If this is truly the case, then it's time for those concerned about this version of BLU coming into FFXIV to wait things out and see how things go. SE can't brush this aside like how they have with the squadron and companion systems. They are going to have to continuously keep BLU updated. They are going to have to allow progression into lv60, 70, and 80. If they rely on heavy RNG to acquire skills to stretch things out, it's going to be bad.

I think you are partially correct though. A lot of the initial shock has become calm, but that doesn't mean that players still aren't chomping at the bit already for 5.0 announcements concerning BLU. As it is now, if you are on board then when 4.5 comes give it a go. It definitely isn't going to be tough to do pre-made parties with all them that will be running around.

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Oh boy, you said that if blu were given job soulstones for different roles then each role would only use certain spells and the rest of what you have learned and spent time on would have been a waste of time essentially. I was stating that is already the case on XI basically and that it's STILL one of the most popular jobs. So you're point wasn't much of one. And no, I would have preferred a tank or melee but that doesn't mean that blu as a caster has to function like the caster dps we already have.

No, right now is the best time to give our feedback that we think a combat job with these kinds of restrictions that make it more about a mini game than being an actual combat job is a terrible idea.

There's a lot on our side that have already unsubbed, were planning on returning to the game but not going to now, or are just boycotting by refusing to play as or with blue mages. Be ready to potentially see more anger if there isn't an announcement during the Dec live letter to address the backlash and there will definitely be more after the 4.5 patch goes live and more people realize how limited blue mage is going to be.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

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They are already having to bring the power of the enemy abilities into line with the power the legit combat jobs have or else blue mages would be going around destroying A/S rank hunts and fate NMs.

Bad breath could have more range than Overpower, deal decent damage along with a DoT, and then also have the trick attack damage taken debuff. Put it on a 1min cooldown with the 10sec damage taken debuff to start shaking up the meta or give it less uptime on the debuff to not shake up the meta.

Or have bad breath with more range than Overpower, deal decent damage, and then apply the fire, water, earth, poison, miasma, disease, and bleed Dots that are already in the game so still feels like you're applying a lot of status ailments.

You only speak for yourself. SOME people were not wanting jobs with rotations/priority systems but then I have to wonder why they are playing the game. PLENTY of people that were wanting blue mage expected it to function similar to all the other combat jobs we already have but with enemy abilities and an unique mechanic or two. Besides, most of the blue spells will just be reskinned spells except for when you're in the Carnival and are playing with the different rules in that content.

We said that there are multiple ways of giving our side what we want without taking away from what the solo people are getting. IF they did different job stones, then it could be "Blue Mage" and "Carnival Mage" or even have one of them be "Blu Mage". I doubt many on our side would care if we were the "Blu Mage".

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

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Since I can't grab the full thing, I'll just snip it down. But with regards to the job gauge, perhaps there could be certain things that build up a job gauge, and the monster spells cost various amounts from the job gauge? I'm assuming that small blast of white energy we see in the trailer is the auto-attack, but why not make it a level 1 spell like "Jolt" that builds up a small amount of blue gauge (let's call it Blue Mana). Let's say 1 Blue Mana per cast. It can have up to 1'000 Blue Mana at any one time (same amount as TP). Different monster abilities will cost different amounts of Blue Mana. So for example Bad Breath could cost the full 1'000. But something like that sheep's sleep spell in Bardam's Mettle could cost say 50 Blue Mana. Then, it becomes a task of managing your Blue Mana. You gather mana and spend it according to the needs required. You could even limit it to certain spells within a group setting if needed.

I mean, this might be a total garbage idea, but it's a way I think it could potentially work.

EDIT: Note that I don't have any real investment in this class, I'm hoping for DNC healer, if I don't get that, will stick with WHM.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Since I can't grab the full thing, I'll just snip it down. But with regards to the job gauge, perhaps there could be certain things that build up a job gauge, and the monster spells cost various amounts from the job gauge? I'm assuming that small blast of white energy we see in the trailer is the auto-attack, but why not make it a level 1 spell like "Jolt" that builds up a small amount of blue gauge (let's call it Blue Mana). Let's say 1 Blue Mana per cast. It can have up to 1'000 Blue Mana at any one time (same amount as TP). Different monster abilities will cost different amounts of Blue Mana. So for example Bad Breath could cost the full 1'000. But something like that sheep's sleep spell in Bardam's Mettle could cost say 50 Blue Mana. Then, it becomes a task of managing your Blue Mana. You gather mana and spend it according to the needs required. You could even limit it to certain spells within a group setting if needed.

I mean, this might be a total garbage idea, but it's a way I think it could potentially work.

EDIT: Note that I don't have any real investment in this class, I'm hoping for DNC healer, if I don't get that, will stick with WHM.

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Hoping that dnc is a healer as well and a full job.

I made a short write up for how blu could be unique as a caster (and melee) in my thread here. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-Blu-Concepts

TLDR: Give at least four blu spells an elemental affinity (fire,earth,water,wind) that you would use to spell weave 3 part combos. Put a restriction that you can not use the same element twice in a row and you could still have a potential 36 combos. Job gauge could show the most recent elements you have used so you don't lose track of what combo you're doing and then can have that fill up a bar that is spent on things like bad breath.

I don't understand you 'wait and see' people.

What are you waiting to see? Their intentions were very clear.

Also to answer the OP's question- I want a BLU playable in all content that every other job can access, full stop, no matter what sacrifices to be made to accomplish that.