As you know, HOH will be out July 3rd. I'm really looking forward to doing the content but (& I know I sound like a broken record) floors 31 - 100 ONLY for Fixed parties, does not set well with me. Since the original POTD, because of time & work schedule, I have always done matched parties from floors 1-100 & I enjoy them. Never been to floors 101-200 due to the fixed party rule.
Who says a match parties can't survive the harder floors. Not everyone has the time to commit to a fixed party or like me rather be in matched party. Since the upper floors are harder & may take more time, 10 floors one day is good enough for one matched party & the next day try another 10 floor harder floors with a new matched party.
Also in POTD, let squadrons be used for the 1st 100 floor. Just wanted to throw that in there for good measure.
Thanks for letting me vent.
HEAVEN ON HIGH - LET MATCH PARTIES GO TO THE HIGHER FLOORS
Printable View
-
06-22-2018, 11:57 PMNighthawky2010HEAVEN ON HIGH - LET MATCH PARTIES GO TO THE HIGHER FLOORS
-
06-23-2018, 12:07 AMalimdia
Yoshida said those floors were desgined in such way that pomanders are required to go past some obstacles, he even gave an example of a boss doing a gaze attack from 4 directions and it only being avoidable by using an appropriate pomander, additionally they said those floors are tuned like 180-200 (the hardest portion of PotD), so you wouldn't have 80 floors of snooze and 20 of challenge, this is all floors being challenging.
You can't carry over pomanders if you're queuing matched, which means you'd have no way to deal with the floor traps and layouts, they would have to nerf the entire thing to be clearable without pomanders and that's a big no no from me.
Make a party with equally busy people who can only do 10 floors per day. -
06-23-2018, 12:14 AMVaer
Well.. if it works the same way as PoTD, if you die you have to start over. They probably want to avoid the situations of drama happening when one guy screws it up for the rest of the group and everyone has to start over again. In a fixed party everyone knows what they are getting into. In PoTD you also need a file with 0 wipes to even go into the harder floors. (1 Wipe means you had to start a new file and trudge through the lower floors again.) It would just be immensely frustrating.
I don't mind if they allow it, but I dunno I feel like no one would bother after a while if they keep the same restrictions in place as PotD.
Now, they could add a matched party that doesn't require a 0 K.O file but that would make the actual fixed party mode meh unless they did something like remove scoreboard eligibility or reduce the loot. -
06-23-2018, 12:21 AMBillyKaplanThen I certainly hope they're a guaranteed drop at one point or anotherQuote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
-
06-23-2018, 12:23 AMMaeka
So basically, none of HoH can be matched, then, if you NEED Pomanders to pass certain fights?
-
06-23-2018, 12:26 AMVaerDoubt it. Probably just 31+ has those punishing pass/fail mechanics. 1-30 is probably normal/story mode like the original PoTD where you can get a weapon and level alt jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
-
06-23-2018, 12:37 AMNezeriusThat only applies to floor 31-100, since those are the challenging ones, similar to floor 101-200 in PotD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
Floor 1-30 is the story part. -
06-23-2018, 12:38 AMalimdiaYoshida was talking about the challenge floors, 31-100.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
-
06-23-2018, 01:33 AMRogatum
If pomanders are required and RNG is not on your side that is going to suck.
-
06-23-2018, 02:09 AMMaeroNo different then all other content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogatum
I am at over 50 runs of Swallows Compass for the damn caster gear and it has not dropped once -
06-23-2018, 02:51 AMKalleraThat doesn't sound right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
We aren't talking about an activity where you can run and still win and get payouts without them.
It would be closer analogy to say that unless that caster piece drops, you are not killing the boss. Or the vrils that pop up during lakshmi come up in a random number.
It's dishonest to call it a "challenge floor", if you are at the mercy of items you might not get in the run. -
06-23-2018, 04:57 AMRogatumUnless that piece of gear is preventing you completing the dungeon I would not say that is a fair comparison. Having certain bosses require certain items to defeat them without any other means of defeating means that players will be at the mercy of RNG. No matter how rare it is that seems like a lazy way to increase difficulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
-
06-23-2018, 07:23 AMKisaiTenshiI'll say it again. RNG content is not skill, it's luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogatum
I'm willing to look the other way as long as the RNG is not a hindrance. However PotD does not do that. It's entirely possible to get to floor 50 or 100 without any useful pomanders, and then not win because you're in a party of DPS PUG zergs. Hell, the only time I've even had a fail on either of those floors is when it was an all-DPS party and no transformation pomanders at all.
The correct compromise, should be obvious. Matched party's should set a "bookmark" save at every floor, and every item is "saved" separately. When you start a new match, it only matches you with players who have both met that floor and party configuration (eg DPS/DPS/Tank/Healer.) Then before the "watching cutscene" fence goes down, a "roll for inventory" screen pops up, where it lists the inventory each player had at the end of the last floor, and players can either "greed" their own inventory or "greed" another players inventory and abandon their own. Once everyone hits greed on an inventory, those are the items used for the floor and everything else is thrown away. Players could also just agree to disagree and "pass" on their own inventory, knowing it's bad.
That makes it ever-so-slightly easier for matched parties to continue than fixed ones, (since you have a 25% chance of getting a better inventory, maybe someone spent all their time on the previous floor getting all the chests, while your last party just zerged it and picked up nothing.) It still risks getting matched with three more zerg players.
However this would require a little more engineering and it's probably not engineering worth doing for content that is intentionally designed for micro-raiding. -
06-23-2018, 07:28 AMalimdia
I feel like calling it "a little more engineering" is an understatement, that's a whole new system that would have to be developed.
-
06-23-2018, 08:00 AMKisaiTenshiNah. Not how it currently operates. It's not a fundamental change to "save" the inventory between floors since it does it for pre-made's. They wouldn't need to change anything in how PotD actually operates, spawns, mechanics, etc. It's more QoL than anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
That said, I don't expect it unless Yoshi-P tries to find a reason to get players to keep playing it. -
06-23-2018, 09:41 AMVaerWhat's the point of it being flex role (one of it's selling points for auto matching) if you are just going to force 1 1 2 or a certain comp anyways. So what happens if my bookmark has 3 tanks? I gotta sit there and wait for 3 tanks or start a new file? Keep leaving groups at the beginning until I get the party comp I want? What if no one queues as a tank or healer for an hour I'll be stuck in queue unable to get a match if the queue is full of DPS? Potentially it makes a ton of people ineligible to join other open groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
At that point you might as well just make a premade group in PF before going in. -
06-23-2018, 10:44 AMMaeka
So there's only 30 story floors now?
I wonder if they also broke it up into 5s instead of 10s.... that'd be cool. -
06-23-2018, 07:09 PMBacent
I don't want to be able to party up with people who can passive-aggressively use pomanders before they leave. I've had people in 51-100 do that before when they weren't being productive to the group as a whole many times the moment they were asked to be productive.
-
06-23-2018, 07:10 PMRemediI guess it means the invisibility pomander, but that is kinda bad design because it means you are screwed if you don't find enough pomanders of that typeQuote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
-
06-23-2018, 08:00 PMAmeelaYeah it's not like anyone who only did it for leveling did anything aside from 1-10/51-60 and I don't imagine it will change in HoH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
By making it only 30 floors people who want to actually do it for the challenge don't have to go through over 100 floors of boring easy content. -
06-23-2018, 08:29 PMMaekaI was hoping for 5 floors to make each run quicker, because current PotD gets boring after awhile slogging through 10 floors, especially with the random "WE MIGHT KILL YOU NOW" cheap combos like Auto-Heal Disabled + Tons of Landmines + No Healers in group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameela
-
06-23-2018, 11:56 PMalimdiaYou're also asking for all 4 different pomander inventories to be brought into the same instance (something currently not possible), also asking for a roll system to pick one of the 4, and also asking for a system that fully discards 3 pomander inventories and shares the 4th with the rest of the party. This isn't just QoL.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
This is another good point to consider, they'd have to take into account randoms who use all your pomanders before a set of floors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacent
Only if you get half the exp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
-
06-24-2018, 12:04 AMMaekaThat would still be preferable.Quote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
That way, if you die, it's less of a cost.
5 floor groupings is basically double the checkpoints. If you get, say 1 million XP out of 10 floors of PotD, you'd get 500k XP out of 5 floors of HoH and that's fine, because dying on the next-to-the-last floor means you lost out on 500k rather than 1 million lol.
Well there'd be a minor amount of extra wait times between floors, but PotD was always 60-120 second Qs no matter what job you are. I'd gladly trade that for double the checkpoints/half the losses when wipes occur. Nothing sucks worse than being stuck in a group with no heals and you get killed during the last couple floors and you basically just flushed nearly half an hour down the toilet with zero gain. -
06-24-2018, 12:13 AMalimdia
I still find it unlikely to happen, the point was to reduce the number of instances because people only run one (51-60), so with this you'd have people spamming 1-10 but abandoning two instances (11-30), if they were to split them in 6 they run back to the same problem of people running only one (1-5) and leaving even more instances abandoned, 5 of them.
-
06-24-2018, 12:56 AMKisaiTenshiGood luck finding a PF for a 200 floor run of PotD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaer
I don't think it would be an issue. The point is to prevent changing the configuration per-floor which is what it does now on every 10 floors, except it matches you with just whoever is available regardless if that's how the player got there. Bookmark the inventory per floor, re-match players per floor after 100 instead of every 10. Assuming there is any interest in going beyond 100. Otherwise you're right, pre-made party would be the only way to avoid a potentially endless queue. But you get that endless queue anyways when you try to queue for floor 90 when you don't take the same party from 50 onward, so this is not any different.
The elephant in the room is that it's a 100 floor raid, and PUG raids are a take-what-you-get experience to begin with. My suggestion here is really just to bookmark the inventory per-floor, and lock the party configuration past 100 so that you don't have your party configuration subject to RNG. The only way you don't end up with your previous party is if there is another party in the same configuration, at that floor, at the same time. -
06-24-2018, 01:37 AMVaerI meant you should just start a fixed party at that point from the beginning not that you should try to PF if you are actually on 1[91]. With bookmarking and 7 different sets of hard floors in HoH in addition to punishing mechanics and the 1 life rule, good luck getting a queue that has exactly the comp you want all the way to 100.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
One of the main reasons it isn't accessible isn't really the number of floors even though it is part of it. It's because 1 wipe destroys the entire group's progress. Imagine you get to floor 91/100. You finally get a queue. One of the people in your group d/cs, and you completely wipe. Now all 4 players have to go back to 31.
The 1 life rule is incompatible with random matching honestly. Couple this with 1 shot mechanics and you're going to have a bad time if this rule is still in place. I just don't see it working very well with auto matching if they keep that rule in. I'm not a fan of the 1 life rule but it is what it is. There's a reason it doesn't exist on the story floors. -
06-24-2018, 01:54 AMKisaiTenshiI'm not fond of the 1-life rule either, but I know why it's there (people would just keep throwing themselves at the content until they beat it.) Perhaps taking a page from various "permadeath" mechanics would be more reasonable, where a party wipe forces you to lose a floor of progress or something until you've lost 3 floors from where you last reached, then you're forced to start over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaer
-
06-24-2018, 02:24 AMNihility
my guess would be that as matched parties wipe out on the hard floors the amount of people queuing for them would thin out drastically to the point your looking at massive queues the farther up you go.
while they made the early floors basically easy enough to solo and still give rewards for everyone who doesn't want to make a group at all -
06-24-2018, 03:09 AMCrystalRainbow
Maybe wait and see the content before asking for changes.
Most people use this content to level quickly. Nothing else. Other want to get to floor 100 or 200 in case of POTD....