Yes, another All Greed Alliance thread.

I can\\'t gear my SAM main through the new 24 man because everyone is greeding Vaan\\'s gear for glamour.

Is this SE\\'s way of making me run it more to keep the raid alive? Yea no. The loot pool is big enough as is, and then having to roll against 7 others when it does drop is dumb AF. On top of that I can\\'t even upgrade my Eureka gear this upcoming Pagos. Am I suppose to spend weekly capped Mendacity Tomes for gear on a main that\\'ll wear Eureka gear in the end regardless and therefore wasting the Tomes I could\\'ve spent on an alt?

Guess I\\'m stuck with ilvl 350 gear on my main until the 3rd Eureka comes out.

/rant

You don't have tomes? Why would you not spend those on your main

In regards to your gear-issue...

1) Yes, you are supposed to cap Tomes if you want gear - not a real surprise, is it?
2) Unless you're raiding - which you're not in 350/Eureka-gear - you dont really "need" 360 right now. If you are raiding you're getting 370 stuff anyways!
3) If people are rolling on a specific piece of gear for glamour reasons, whats stopping you to grab a less glamour-attractive piece if you're after ilvl? Stuff like headpieces, gloves, boots and (I dont believe I'm saying this) belts are often less desired for glamour.
4) You can get 360 now by exchanging the crafted 350-gear in Rhalgrs Reach.

I dont agree with the "All Greed"-rule either, but if ilvl is your concern... go ahead and pick one of the other options. As a non-raider 350 is fine anyways.

I really hope they change this. Who even asked for this in the first place

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Unless you're raiding - which you're not in 350/Eureka-gear - you dont really "need" 360 right now. If you are raiding you're getting 370 stuff anyways!

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I'm a raider and I equipped the 360 boots. They are actually better than my 370.

I see lots of accusations fly about how people shouldn't whine about this, but never a reason to why this system is better than the previous and should have been changed.

Unpopular opinion ahead, beware!

I actually like this change. I am now able to play my favorite jobs while taking advantage of faster queue times and still have a fair shot at getting gear for my DPS jobs. I don’t actually want any gear from the newest raid though, so fear not if you run into me because I won’t be rolling.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

I see lots of accusations fly about how people shouldn't whine about this, but never a reason to why this system is better than the previous and should have been changed.

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I assume the intent was to get people to come on their main jobs (which are likely better geared and played at a higher level). I was certainly guilty of that. I rarely queued for Rabanastre on my main job because the gear drops were inferior to what I was already wearing due to gear bought with tomes. Also, as the above poster mentions, allows people to queue on roles that might be in more demand without affecting what they could lot on.

Whether or not that intent was successful, I can't comment on (I haven't had time to log on yet).


I suppose the middle-ground would be allowing us to set a need-job that could differ from the job we queued as. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to such a change.

I do not care who thinks it is a good or a bad idea.
I am just never running that again .

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

Unpopular opinion ahead, beware!

I actually like this change. I am now able to play my favorite jobs while taking advantage of faster queue times and still have a fair shot at getting gear for my DPS jobs. I don’t actually want any gear from the newest raid though, so fear not if you run into me because I won’t be rolling.

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See, a token system would have actually done this better. Instead we have a system where everyone gets to roll on 42 individual pieces of loot that aren't guaranteed to drop; and where you aren't guaranteed to even get the gear you need even if it does magically appear. This? This is just chaos and hardly anyone I know is happy about it.

If its your main should be using tomes
Upgrading crafted gear
But you can do all content in this game at i350 with anemos there is no rush to gearing up

The 24 man is just as valid a way to gear as tomes, it's supposed to help people catch up, but people can't because they can't get gear they actually need.

Tome gear has never been the end all be all to gear, we've always had options, and now it's like they're just pushing us into an even narrower hole.

It's a stupid system.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

The 24 man is just as valid a way to gear as tomes, it's supposed to help people catch up, but people can't because they can't get gear they actually need.

Tome gear has never been the end all be all to gear, we've always had options, and now it's like they're just pushing us into an even narrower hole.

It's a stupid system.

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Not to mention that a lot of people are coming back after a long break. Hell, I'm one of those people. My alt that I run through the MSQ is woefully undergeared right now and I was planning on using the alliance raids to catch up, and to get the last piece I need on my main.

I just deal with it I suppose but... I won't lie, it makes me sad that I can lose gear to some guy who wants to go trade his gear for some grand company seals, keep the greed but force it so ONLY people able to actually equip them can roll.


slight related note, I did Skalla with 2 friends and a Dragoon who was just looking for glamour, samurai chest drops he's like "omg I've been farming this so much it finally drops"
he has 70 Sam but nope he didn't get it, my friend did who is still 50 Sam from like a month ago (still has the chest piece though not gc seal'd
Surprisingly the dragoon was cool about it and like, its completely fair I'll get another 1 ^^.
I befriended him because I liked the way he articulated himself

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

Unpopular opinion ahead, beware!

I actually like this change. I am now able to play my favorite jobs while taking advantage of faster queue times and still have a fair shot at getting gear for my DPS jobs. I don’t actually want any gear from the newest raid though, so fear not if you run into me because I won’t be rolling.

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Why should you get a "fair" chance to roll on gear for jobs you aren't actively playing in the content itself? If I queue on Bard, why should you get an equal chance at gear that may be an upgrade for me when you opted to queue as a healer?

Exactly, you shouldnt get a fair chance to get gear for a job that you are running in an instance where you are the only one in the party who is playing as that job. Its a good change. Now I can run as tank and get my SMN,NIN,WHM gear without running as those jobs. Its just great.


*sarcasm*

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Also, as the above poster mentions, allows people to queue on roles that might be in more demand without affecting what they could lot on. . .I suppose the middle-ground would be allowing us to set a need-job that could differ from the job we queued as. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to such a change.

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The issue with your first point, is that now DPS jobs can roll willy-nilly on tank and healer gear, while avoiding actually having to play the jobs. This may not sound like a bad thing at first, but you need also consider the tanks and healers that do play those roles, and actively queued into the content so that they could get gear needed for those roles which they actively play. I notice a lot of people like to try and roll on tank and healer gear, but they don’t seem particularly inclined to put the roles to use...or they don’t even have them leveled/unlocked to begin with.

Aside from a token system, if the developers want to keep this Greed Only system, a good thing to do would be to set requirements on the ability to Greed: by this, I mean that the person has to meet two requirements to roll on a piece—
1. Have the job unlocked (I have seen a lot of people roll on gear before that don’t even have the job unlocked; if you don’t have NIN or even ROG unlocked, why are you rolling on the Scouting gear).
2. Have the job at a, more or less, up to date level (by this, I mean requiring them to have it at level 61 or higher to roll on the level 70 gear; at least that way, they have the job within the Stormblood expansion, and seem to be actively leveling/playing it).

As the system is now, it’s terrible, and I’m not even attempting to get gear if I’m queuing in and dealing with a full alliance of randoms. I usually use these 24-mans to gear my healers if they don’t have the Tomestone or Savage gear needed (or the Tome gear is awful and I don’t have a better option), but if I can’t roll Need on the gear, I’m not even going to bother. At least I have the Augmented 360 gear now.


That being said, every week a group of 7 friends and I are queuing in as a pre-made so that we don’t have to deal with people taking loot that we would want.

As things stands, I don't see how 24 man gear can be a valid option for anyone beside glamour considering you have 360 tome gear (that can be upgraded) and augmented crafted gear to choose upon.
Adding greed only weekly locked and a non weekly locked way to get gear at the same time was probably the stupidest thing I've ever saw in a game

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Originally Posted by Remedi

As things stands, I don't see how 24 man gear can be a valid option for anyone beside glamour considering you have 360 tome gear (that can be upgraded) and augmented crafted gear to choose upon.
Adding greed only weekly locked and a non weekly locked way to get gear at the same time was probably the stupidest thing I've ever saw in a game

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It’s mostly for alt jobs, since people that don’t raid will probably use Mendacity on their main/secondary job. And to give an alternative to some of the i360 Augmented Crafted in the event that they don’t like the substats on them. It is still a really dumb system, agreed.

I know it's for alt jobs, but as said there are already better alternatives one of which is not locked by weekly, but by your will of levelling up crafters in a patch that was hevaily incentivizes it too! I mean substats can go so far if I need to become crazy to get that piece I might just settle for a suitable piece and call it a day also it's not like there's a real lack of glamour either.
I'm always of the opinuion that 24 man have become a poor choice in gearing since the removal of accuracy and the ease on savage, but what they do? they make loot greed only and offer plentyful of better alternatives, they really ought to think better about 24 man raids in the future

You know, this is why Bliz ended up adding personal loot rules for these types of group dungeons. You got to choose the spec you wanted to get loot for and then when the boss died, the roll was for you personally and you either got a drop or not. I don't see why it wouldn't work here, but SE has to use the most toxic, player-unfriendly solution they can find just so that they can say it's 'different' from how other, more popular MMOs run.

I don't know who they are making this game for anymore. It's not the players.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

You know, this is why Bliz ended up adding personal loot rules for these types of group dungeons. You got to choose the spec you wanted to get loot for and then when the boss died, the roll was for you personally and you either got a drop or not. I don't see why it wouldn't work here, but SE has to use the most toxic, player-unfriendly solution they can find just so that they can say it's 'different' from how other, more popular MMOs run.

I don't know who they are making this game for anymore. It's not the players.

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Problem is one and done stuff (WoW system) wouldn't work if they want people to repeatedly queue for it. People would probably just run it once for the token and their one chance of drop on each boss and that would be that.

WoW also forces people into in progress no matter what (FFXIV does not) and it's definitely needed in WoW, since you might sometimes end up going into it on the last boss, then you requeue and do 3 then leave. After almost every boss people leave, since they have no reason to stay if they already killed the other ones in other runs. LFRs in WoW are revolving doors. They do have a lot more bosses usually so it somewhat balances out.

This system at least you can keep running it until you get the piece you want. The greed change definitely made it harder, but you could technically get something for the job you are playing. In WoW, you might end up getting nothing but a consumable from all the bosses or just repeats of what you already have and then have to wait until next week or start begging people to give you their item which is another can of worms.

Each system has it's pros and cons. I don't think the greed only change was really necessary though.

Managed to get a piece of gear on my second run, but gods that was not fun. Unfortunately the crafted i350/augmented 360 is drowning in Spell Speed so it's useless... but the 24 man gear doesn't seem to be much better unless you replace all of your anemos gear with it. I don't really see how losing 200 crit and 50 Det to gain only 10 attack power is better. *shrugs* So either way if you even just have anemos on an alt most of this gear is useless.

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Originally Posted by Enla

See, a token system would have actually done this better. Instead we have a system where everyone gets to roll on 42 individual pieces of loot that aren't guaranteed to drop; and where you aren't guaranteed to even get the gear you need even if it does magically appear. This? This is just chaos and hardly anyone I know is happy about it.

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Token systems would fix a lot of issues, but for whatever reason the devs have been adverse to adding in a proper token system.

I think maybe you misunderstand the WoW system. You choose the spec you're rolling on. Gear there is different than here so there's more chances to get something that isn't *quite* what you want, I agree, but that wouldn't happen with this loot system here. If I select Monk as what I want to roll on for this boss, There's only really one drop that is for monks. It's not like there's a massive loot table with 3-4 different items with slightly different stats on each boss equippable for each job. The system would work even better here for that reason alone.

SE has to stop pretending that this is content people want to repeatedly run at all. WoW uses the LFR as a catch up gearing system that gives you the basics of the storyline. SE is treating it like an end game raid and these 24 mans are NOT end game raids. It doesn't drop end game raid ilvl.

I prefer the 'revolving door' of WoW because it means you get replacements very quickly and can move through content and on to other things. If you got stuck in a raid that was at the last boss, you just queue again and the system automatically puts you in a fresh run. Then you just leave when you completed the bosses you needed. In an ideal world, everyone would start at the beginning and stop at the end, but we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a world where an entire group can be at a complete standstill because no one wants to fill out a random dungeon. That's why Blizzard took away the choice (because they tried it too).

The bottom line is that SE keeps trying to reinvent the wheel and having this conversation over and over again when so many other games already solved these problems is so frustrating because it demonstrates that they have no capacity for learning. They don't care that the players are largely unhappy and they are mistaking a toxic environment for a healthy one. I don't know if this can be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I prefer the 'revolving door' of WoW because it means you get replacements very quickly and can move through content and on to other things. If you got stuck in a raid that was at the last boss, you just queue again and the system automatically puts you in a fresh run. Then you just leave when you completed the bosses you needed. In an ideal world, everyone would start at the beginning and stop at the end, but we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a world where an entire group can be at a complete standstill because no one wants to fill out a random dungeon. That's why Blizzard took away the choice (because they tried it too).

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Like I said, pros and cons. In the WoW system, you can end up with nothing or just consumables/artifact power, although that would be pretty unlucky instead of what you really want. Here you can keep running until you get the piece you want. You can even get around this all greed system by just going with a premade. It is just preference in the end. Here you can try harder to end up with a piece you might want, or you can go to the WoW system where the game decides whether you get something or not and you have no control other than bonus rolls or the other option which is begging someone else if they got what you want. I had to stop looting the corpse and letting it go to the mailbox because of the trading system. I really don't think a one and done system would be that great for queue times but who knows. A mix and match of both systems would be nice but I doubt that would happen.

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

Token systems would fix a lot of issues, but for whatever reason the devs have been adverse to adding in a proper token system.

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Because frankly speaking we are already drowning in tokens to the point I don't fix it is a good enough solutions especially since they can't really increase inventory for everyone anymore.
The greed only was made to try and fix a community problem, but frankly SE should not do that, the system was somewhat working and now they made it worse, a better solution could've been making the boss drop more loots (especially the end ones) heck they could've done anything BUT this

Yeah I can't wait for the dude that's been lying dead the entire time to snatch that piece of gear I would've been able to need and want right out of my hands.

Everyone still are limited to only one piece each week. So, think twice before rolling any item.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

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That being said, every week a group of 7 friends and I are queuing in as a pre-made so that we don’t have to deal with people taking loot that we would want.

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This, I feel like this is only way to do things now if you want gear.

The issue for JP players is getting gear for alt jobs

NA's issue is getting drops altogether (Three SAM and a BLM? BETTER DROP NOTHING BUT NIN GEAR LOL)

SE caters to the 25% and wonders why the 75% gets ticked off

If you want gear for a class, play that class. If people can run it blind day one at min ilevel, you can run it on your lesser geared and lesser practiced alt job. Only way I got better with my alt jobs play style and it's gear was actually running it. Inb4 "queue times", the needed role varies as instances fill up in queue. Usually waiting on a dps and day one tank queues can get p congested, but honestly once one fills up, another is ready to go. No role has overall better queue times for new content if you just try at dif times

And yeah putting the glam gear on a specific job was bull. Rip SAM and MNK

Farming Rabanastre non stop, I managed to push my alt up to ilv.339 in two days, right before 4.3 hit. Because of that, she's been able to unlock the new raid and dungeon.

Now my friend is back to the game for the new patch, and he needed to equip his character quickly (he only managed to buy 2 pieces in the market, since he's not exactly rich). He tried doing Rabanastre too, but because of this new rule, he was unable to obtain a single of the pieces that dropped for his class.

I think this new rule does more wrong than right. It's quite annoying.