Why does SE want Relics to be boring?

I've had this opinion for a long time now, but after hearing about Eureka I wanted to hold onto it due to it supposedly "Reworking" the relic system. After playing around with it, it's safe to say that the Relics are still being implemented against the flow of FFXIV's design.

I think the concept of the relic weapons is great and that they are achievement gear that you spend a lot of time building. The problem is that the building process is, and has always been, stale.
Why couldn't they make the Relic "building" process more entertaining aside from "Run x Dungeon 200 times" or "Kill 300 of this monster"? Why did their creativity in revitalizing older content and systems stop at the basic premise of Kill x Monsters and Beat x Dungeons?

Perhaps they could've given relics different goals during the building process to take pressure and focus off of the menial setting/task. Instead of running x Dungeon 100 times, why not have challenges in place for Relic grinders that make the content more interesting? Like having random challenges in these dungeons such as removing the Tank's defensive stance for the whole dungeon, or healing spells are at 5-10x MP cost? Or possibly let the party roll for multiple of those challenges for a much higher payoff? Try making the quality per dungeon or whatever go up instead of having them run it so many times in a row. Same goes for FATE "atma" grinds. Why not have special skills/challenges/gimmicks in place to alleviate the pressure of raw FATE grind and increase the quality of the user's play time instead of wasting it?

As for Eureka, why is the element system so bland? It's like they once again just stopped at a basic premise and didn't go beyond to keep things new and interesting.

Some ideas:
-Make half the fight built around mastering the elements, rather than passive boring stat buffs.
-More intricate monsters and bosses that REQUIRE proper in-combat element management to create a whole new layer of depth and a fresh new playstyle to keep players interested.
-Give the players a few different Eureka-Only skills that expend their elemental resource points and passive ways to recharge it. Skills like 30 second weapon element imbue for passive damage, a 30 second armor element imbue for passive mitigation, a oGCD elemental attack (Burst window exploit tool), a oGCD heal that heals/damages based on a player's current weapon/armor imbue, and so on.
-Letting the storms and weather effect how your elements react with the monsters and environment to create a more sandbox-like effect. (eg. Lighting oGCD attack turns into AoE during rain storm, or Ice oGCD attack perma-binds all monsters standing in water, etc)


It's not some end-all-be-all, just some ideas thrown out there for ways to make relic grinds more entertaining and new. I'm not against long content, but why do Relic grinds always got to be so BORING? I play games to have fun in the small pockets of time I have, not throw it away. Relics are everything this game seems to stand against.

Savage and ultimate is for challage. Relic is for grinding. Have always been that way.

Beating Titan Hard at 2.0 launch was deemed too hard and too much by the playerbase (you'll recall the same playerbase did the same thing with Steps of Faith). They've made it a braindead grind ever since because "midcore" difficulty content was too much for most of the playerbase. I just value my time too much to do mindless relics / Eureka going forward.

I guess at least with light farming you could decided what you wanted to run. For this... ug.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Beating Titan Hard at 2.0 launch was deemed too hard and too much by the playerbase (you'll recall the same playerbase did the same thing with Steps of Faith). They've made it a braindead grind ever since because "midcore" difficulty content was too much for most of the playerbase. I just value my time too much to do mindless relics / Eureka going forward.

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This frustrates me incredibly because the original relic questline IMO was one of the more interesting pieces of content in this game. Relics in turn had so much potential to be the sort of gear we were looking forward to, with things like additional properties or added effects, but the constant fear of backlash from the "have-nots" has basically led to a dearth of any sort of meaningful rewards in this game.

I think they are out of ideas and really lack any creativity lately. Nothing new, nothing inspiring. Expansions are supposed to bring exciting new stuff yet we have the same old rubbish if not worse.

I'm still grinding, but my brain hurts doing it and I need alcohol to get through it. Killing the same bear over and over again is not only boring but frustrating. I can see this burning me out and making me want to quit the game if I do it enough.

They simply are burnt out and can no longer innovate. Might be time for new some new blood in leadership.

Titan Hard was only too much for most average players because the server tick rate was utter garbage. That said, 'interesting' and 'challenging' are not in any way synonyms, so the idea that 'boring grind' is the only option left to relics to still be 'casual' is utterly ridiculous.

The relic is designed very much at its core to be like roulette's. A way to get you to do the content you've already done or don't want to do again as a way to both help new players and to make the early game and open world seem more active then it would be without either in place. This won't ever change.

1.0 Relics had this fun 4 man trial part that was pretty cool. They should add that back.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

This frustrates me incredibly because the original relic questline IMO was one of the more interesting pieces of content in this game. Relics in turn had so much potential to be the sort of gear we were looking forward to, with things like additional properties or added effects, but the constant fear of backlash from the "have-nots" has basically led to a dearth of any sort of meaningful rewards in this game.

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Unfortunately, Stormblood as a whole can be summarized as "afraid of backlash." With the exception of Ultimate, every single thing they've done has been incredibly safe. Just to list a few examples...

- Tomestone grind remains unchanged for the third iteration
- Jobs universally simplified
- Battle "overhaul" amounted to near pointless gauges
- Difficulty of all content (Ultimate notwithstanding) reduced in varying degrees
- Prioritization on niche activities like Perform and Replay
- Dungeons remained unchanged outside aesthetic

They seem utterly terrified to do anything different. Not to sound overly dramatic, but if this trend continues I fear just how long the game will manage. I fully anticipate Eureka losing a good amount of subs—hopefully enough to wake them up. I don't know whether the dev team has lost their creativity or SE is simply strangling them with a small budget but something needs be done, and soon.

I don't understand, in a kind of gamedesign point of view, how you can get to that result... Something as boring and uninspiring than that. OK they can save some time with using already known mobs and all. That could be OK.
But as for the content, they could have so many things to make it less mindless and boring... it's like they didnt even try to think about it ! Disappointing...

I stopped looking at this as a relic grind and have to say my enjoyment of it went up considerably since. I'm doing it for the awards from the lockboxes (CARBY SLIPPERS), the story and Krile, while focusing mostly on NMs which makes this more like hunts than a mindless, horrible grind. By removing the element of the relic grind from the equation, I'm also not in any rush because by the time I'll get the items they'll be outdated anyway, and I'm in no rush for that sort of glamour. Though even that's not as horrible if you focus on NMs.
It's conflicting, though. For the awards alone I feel like people would still run this (though admittedly not as much) even without the relic, but this forces everyone who wanted the relic into content they can't stand and don't have the right point of view for. That is not to say it's a wrong view-point to have, just one that clashes with the content.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Titan Hard was only too much for most average players because the server tick rate was utter garbage. That said, 'interesting' and 'challenging' are not in any way synonyms, so the idea that 'boring grind' is the only option left to relics to still be 'casual' is utterly ridiculous.

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I mean really, it can be a grind and still at least be interesting too. This is just the worst of the lot because there's literally no other options than killing trash for 2 hours and fighting the VERY occasional Notorious Monster. They put us in what's basically a new zone, yet there's actually NOTHING to do in it. Even giving people challenges and adding more quests would have helped, but they decided for whatever reason people would like just killing trash for their relic weapon. I refuse to believe most casuals find this engaging. I'm midcore and I certainly don't.

I've been playing FFXIV since around Shiva's debut. I've played long enough to have done the Zodiac weapon for BLM AND the Anima weapon for BLM and DRG. I'm absolutely NOT against a long meaningful grind for an awesome looking weapon. What I AM against, is mind numbing bore.

First off, both previous relic weapons had you doing an variety of steps during each stage of its refinement, to break up the boredom. ARR even had UNIQUE steps, starting with the Beast tribes, crafting weapons, melding materia, and a unique instances, the Chimera and the Hydra.

When I say meaningful, I mean that at the end of the grind, after all the boring grinds, you had a UNIQUE weapon. Something unlike anything previously seen in the game. Even if it wasn't BiS, it was AWESOME LOOKING! Eureka gear? It's literally just glowing versions of the gear given to you when you turn 70. Gear you've had since the very beginning of Stormblood.........REALLY!?

It's like they introduced the awakened step of the anima 2 patches too late.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

1.0 Relics had this fun 4 man trial part that was pretty cool. They should add that back.

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But this was also a grind

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Unfortunately, Stormblood as a whole can be summarized as "afraid of backlash." With the exception of Ultimate, every single thing they've done has been incredibly safe. Just to list a few examples...

(...)

They seem utterly terrified to do anything different. Not to sound overly dramatic, but if this trend continues I fear just how long the game will manage. I fully anticipate Eureka losing a good amount of subs—hopefully enough to wake them up. I don't know whether the dev team has lost their creativity or SE is simply strangling them with a small budget but something needs be done, and soon.

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Nailed it. It is as it is because it's been the time sink model they had so far. It's the same with almost every aspect in the game.

Haven’t played Eureka a whole day. Usually on patches I keep playing the content. What a sour experience.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

The relic is designed very much at its core to be like roulette's. A way to get you to do the content you've already done or don't want to do again as a way to both help new players and to make the early game and open world seem more active then it would be without either in place. This won't ever change.

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But...

Isn't tying the relic to only Eureka actually against that design?
The relic now forces a single specicif type of content.

Not to sound negative, yet for those of us who did relics back in FFXI before the huge dynamis nerf, we can all agree this relic grind does not compare to it.

It's already bad enough that relics are not the strongest weapon in the game, are delayed the most, are still nerfed even though they are not hard, and if anything are made to par with endgame weps. The process may seem boring and believe me I should know I had all Zodiac and almost all Anima weapons ( need 4 more light stages ) done so I have spent my fair share with this repetitive cycle. However, people seem to misunderstand the main purpose of relics and now relic gear. Why do people do relics to begin with? If it's so boring why not stick with endgame? The answer is simple, they are either anti social and don't get FC help, don't like dealing with groups who make unfair rules if they are not part of the founding team, and my personal favorite, because we enjoy it, kind of just want the achievement while we kill time between RL and expansions. Relics are not for everyone, and while there are other things to do, hence the optional content, it depends on the player. If anything I see relics as a type of trophy were hard work pays of, not one that you get for just trying.

No one is asking to make things easier. Hard work is not exactly the same as brainless. Shouldn't be in a game where the devs say "if it isn't fun, then it's wrong".

Inb4 "they are either anti social and don't get FC help" most are doing it in groups because its pointless doing it solo as things are rn.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

The relic is designed very much at its core to be like roulette's. A way to get you to do the content you've already done or don't want to do again as a way to both help new players and to make the early game and open world seem more active then it would be without either in place. This won't ever change.

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Stormblood relic takes place in a new instanced zone completely separate from existing and old content. "This won't ever change", except for the part where it currently doesn't adhere to any of that.

I still think they should have went with the battle arena idea instead of the island idea. Would have been way more interesting.

Placeholder to keep people busy so they have time to make new content.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

I think they are out of ideas and really lack any creativity lately. Nothing new, nothing inspiring. Expansions are supposed to bring exciting new stuff yet we have the same old rubbish if not worse.

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While I understand the sentiment here and have even thought it myself at one point. After creating some actual indie games myself I feel that there is no way that Square has run out of ideas. They simply refuse to exert the effort to create anything of value. It seems like they simply don't care anymore.

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Originally Posted by ToriiMiyuki

While I understand the sentiment here and have even thought it myself at one point. After creating some actual indie games myself I feel that there is no way that Square has run out of ideas. They simply refuse to exert the effort to create anything of value. It seems like they simply don't care anymore.

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It's not the fact t hat they don't care, just like with any other game developer they have priorities. They can't make the game just about relics that away, I would love it if they did place more priority, however they do have many things to worry about. I loved the fact that they made it into a living weapon, perhaps more interaction with it might spice it up a bit and give it properties such as light and darkness based on your choices. Kind of how they did it in FFXI where you had multiple paths.

Personally I don't find them boring, gives me things top do while I do something else. Problem is people seem to misunderstand RELICS are not meant to be completed fast, and of course they may seem boring. The story lines have varied and have to admit tehy have gotten a bit better. I loved anima, gender selection, just wish their would be more interaction.