I was severely disappointed to see that it was being removed, and every time I play the game I look at this mockery that it was replaced with in dismay... yet the irony is that I cannot shake that off.
Edited: Apparently the character limit wouldn't let me post the original message, and my copy/paste failed so now I don't have the post anymore.
The new Shake it Off (8-24% hp shield, uses up all your defensive cooldowns for maximum effectiveness) is something that really only would be used in two situations: when everything is going well and thus you don't really get much benefit out of it, or when everything has gone to shit and it isn't really going to save anyone. Because it ends all of a warrior's defensive cooldowns that means that it should not ever really be used as a main tank; only as an off-tank and only ever when there is no chance of needing to switch in as the main tank for the next minute or two (meaning not savage content, or most things that have mechanics that require tanks to switch).
In truth, the best possible situation that I can think of for it to be used would be just before a party-wide damage mechanic that is also a tank swap, using the ability while the buffs it consumes are only a few seconds away from expiring, and also within the timeframe (15s) of keeping the shield active when the party-wide damage goes off. However, as most content of this sort is such that a single AoE shield from a Scholar or Astrologean would be able to cover the party 80-150% as well as Shake it Off, it hardly seems like a necessity and instead would simply be something that is there to save a single cast and some mana on a healer. So obviously the maximum usefulness would be in a party that has 2 white mages, because it would be the only party-wide shield.
If the warrior is off-tanking and uses this ability, their defensive abilities would be on cooldown if used to full effect, and if used at base value 8% of maximum hp is not a shield that will do much to mitigate damage to most of the party. It would also prevent the warrior from swapping in for the main tank if needed because nearly all of his/her defensive cooldowns would be unavailable. For 4-man content the damage mitigation from defensive cooldowns is going to be more useful to the party than the AoE shield as most mechanics in 4-man content are not the sort that would be able to wipe out a party without shielding.
So again, I really do not see the usefulness of this ability outside of trying in vain to save a run that has more problems than 8-24% of their HP... or being icing on the cake of something that is already going well.
Old Shake it Off had a number of uses, and there are a lot of things that you could do with the old version that the new version cannot.
1. Removing all (not one) removable debuffs can save several casts of Esuna in some fights, freeing up a healer to focus on other things.
2. Being able to remove an effect like Heavy or Vulnerability can mitigate more damage to the tank than the shield would be able to during a fight.
3. Fixing hilarious DF mistakes, like healers that don't put Esuna on their bar or don't know to/don't pay attention to removing Doom in v4 or Dun Scaith.
4. Soloing SB A ranks. You can't do it nearly as well as with the old Shake it Off.
In summary: I miss this ability, because it let me do things that I can't do now and what they replaced it with is useless in nearly every situation except when everything is already going exactly according to plan and therefore you don't need it.
Dear Square Enix, please give me my Shake It Off back.
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01-22-2018, 06:37 AMTiemDear Square Enix, please give me my Shake It Off back.
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01-22-2018, 07:10 AMArek
You must be joking... right ?
The new Shake it Off is incredibly powerfull in Omega 4 Savage.
I switch from Dark knight for several reasons, but THAT shield, helps alot. -
01-22-2018, 07:18 AMLegion88
You think curing a negative status effect is more worth then a shield for the whole party?
In a time when most (all importent) negative status effects are not cureable? -
01-22-2018, 11:39 AMSatarn
Requiring to eat WAR's own cooldowns to be effective doesn't make Shake if Off useless, it makes it awesome. The change to the skill was honestly genius - not only was a crappy, useless skill replaced with something very useful, but at the same time it added depth to WAR's cd management. You can't just pop it whenever it's up and a raid buster is coming like you'd do with Veil, because like you said, 8% of target's hp isn't gonna do much. What you do instead, is plan out all your defensives to not only get as much mitigation as possible but also to get opportunities to spend reminder of your cds to boost Shake it Off. You don't need to convert your buffs into shield right away - you can as well wait until they've got just 1 second left on the timer. For example you know that there's a raid aoe coming 10 seconds after a tank buster, so you plan out your cds to use Vengence and Thrill for the tank buster and after you took it, you can safely use Shake it Off to protect your group.
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01-22-2018, 02:48 PMDianova
It you could count on one hand how many uses Shake It Off in game. 99.9% of all relevant debuffs it did nothing against.
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01-23-2018, 01:13 AMTegernako
Quick everyone, post "are you kidding me" images.
https://i.imgur.com/iCOxCRb.png -
01-23-2018, 01:27 AMsilverlunarfox
I cannot take this seriously....the change to Shake It Off was the best thing to happen to Warrior. Esp since our group runs two.....
go home, you're drunk >.> -
01-23-2018, 04:22 AMRanmyaku
As this seems to be an unpopular opinion, I do somehwat feel shake it off could see another look.
1. The group shield aspect is nice but isn't exactly required to clear content. (at the very least this is something DRK can't do).
2. The group shield aspect isn't needed if a PLD is present.
3. Paladins have Passage of Arms and Divine Veil to accomplish similar group-wide damage reduction without having to burn/eat all their other cooldowns. (now admittedly the paladin can't benefit personally from divine veil but the guaranteed block on passage of arms will generally help).
3.1- I think half the reason they redid it to this was because they needed raw intuition to have a purpose in content considering parry is fairly worthless outside of big pulls; compared to the super-buff paladins got from being able to suddenly block magic damage.
So i don't know if re-adding the status-removal aspect of it would be the way; but i don't feel its perfect the way it is either. -
01-23-2018, 05:15 AMHruodig
I don't think you actually play this game. New shake it off is incredibly nice for helping healers whenever possible. Any extra mitigation is helpful. Old shake it off was...I maybe used it once, and not in savage that's for sure.
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01-23-2018, 05:21 AMRLofOBFL
Even if you only think of it as a CD, new SIO is far superior to the old one. Even at bare minimum it's basically a low potency AOE heal that can be increased up to 2x(I wouldn't say 3x bc if youre blowing all your CDs for SIO you aren't using it properly). The only relevant fights that old SIO has is Shin random paralysis and o3s IF you stand in Aoes. This must be a troll or joke thread. SiO is arguably better than Divine Veil right now.
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01-23-2018, 05:49 AMshao32
well, old shake it off will be nice if bersek still have the pacification effect, but since is not the case its just a situational skill, with isn't something bad either.
the new one is to much, i wonder if SE will go to nerf it in this patch, WAR is getting to much power. -
01-23-2018, 06:32 AMAana
OP is cray. SIO is awesome. If you cant find any place to effectively use it, you have a severe lack of imagination. Protip: Using it with ZERO CDs is still good. But it only goes up from there.
I mean use your brain. Heres a single example:
Use ToB for incoming damage. +20% HP shield. Take some damage (20%+). Use SIO. Eats ToB for 12% HP. Congrats you just just took 22% HP damage that didn't need a single cure. 100% HP. ToB 120% hp. Take 30% damage down to 90% HP. Use SIO for 12%HP shield. your healer heals 10% hp and you shielded 22%. You just used no keystone CDs and negated 32% of a war HP bar in bonus shields. Bonus points if you squeeze in upheaval for HP damage while ToB was up.
Bonus points if you use it during a raid AOE.
Pop RI before pull. Use SIO. Engage Exdeath. Party has 12% more HP for Alm. GGEZ. RI still up when you need it later.
Exdeath: Youre OT. You only eat thunder III with HG. So blow your entire CD suite for meteors/decisive battles and SIO. GGEZ.
Use your brain for 1 min and there are hundreds of viable and valuable SIO uses. Raid AOE. Self defense. Find spaces where you can use a CD and still be up when you need it later. Pre-pull buffs. Eat your buffs after a buster for extra shielding against a followup auto/raid aoe. Use ToB for upheaval damage on opener and use SIO to eat it for 1st raid aoe. Think man. Think. -
01-23-2018, 06:40 AMTint
yes, new shake it off is better than the old one.
however, i think it's really funny that in the same patch where they changed SiO from a self dispell to a party shield they also added a boss with a tankbuster wich can be mitigated with a dispell ^^
yeah, it's only the 3rd boss in Rabanastre and nobody cares - but still funny >.> -
01-23-2018, 07:21 AMwhiskeybravo
Wow
Just wow
@OP:
Do you really pop every single defensive buff you have at the same time to mitigate a single tankbuster? Usually 1 at a time is sufficient, you know..
Surely you're also aware that after you defend the TB, and the remaining part of your defensive CD is counting down - you can pop SiO at the last second and benefit from the extra 4% without actually wasting any duration of buff time? Additionally, using a base SiO with no buffing is completely and entirely free of cost. It's a free 8% party shield. You understand that concept, right? It doesn't cost anything. It's a free buff.
Yes, yes it is. Just end the sentence right there. That's all SiO should really be used for. And it can be used everywhere. Every fight in this game has party-wide damage. So please, use your free, absolutely no-cost SiO to save the healers a bit of MP. They will love you for it. Promise.Quote:
In truth, the best possible situation that I can think of for it to be used would be just before a party-wide damage mechanic
Look.
Is 8% shield a game changer? No, it's not. Is it a waste to burn all your Defensive CDs to pump up the mitigation? Most of the time, yes. So don't. Use the 8% shield 99% of the time, and if you are able to time it in such a way that it catches a 4% buff from natural CD usage during a fight - even better. You don't burn all your defensive CDs to have a mega 24% shield. You should never, EVER do that - it's bad for obvious reasons. Why are you judging SiO based on the most inefficient possible use of the cooldown?
There is no OT/MT consideration. You use it to help mitigate party damage period. This happens whether you are OT or MT. It happens every fight. Use it. It's free.
Even in dungeons, it's not required by any means at all, but most boss aoe will be completely mitigated by this measly 8% shield - which means the healer doesn't even have to heal from it - they can keep DPS'ing. It totally allows the healer to not heal. Isn't that amazing?
Oh, look at this, PLD has a party wide shield to - but you know what? They don't get that shield, and not only that - they have to be healed for it to even activate. If they pop DV and don't get a heal, it's a totally wasted CD. Not so with War - just one simple press of the button and BAM - party shield up.
The old SiO was 100% pure crapola. It was a slap in the face to every Warrior main in this game. It served absolutely no function whatsoever in savage raids. And if you can't see that, you need to uninstall this game right now or roll a healer so you can Esuna all those debuffs you seem to be having problems with.
Sincerely,
WB -
01-23-2018, 08:10 AMNyneSwordz
Except old shake it off removed nothing...
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01-23-2018, 09:48 AMRopeDrink
I don't even main Warrior and yet I've had good usage out of SiO. Most recent example from today:
OS1 - I haven't tanked it myself just yet, though I estimate those Twin Bolt > Roar/Blaze combos would benefit from an OT War using SiO after sharing TB to make the AoE healing requirement a little less heavy.
SusanoEX - Using a def CD to collect Orbs during sword phase, SiO just before taking sword. So long as I have at least one CD to eat Stormsplitter, I could pop more, but it's not necessary. Even if SiO is only preventing 2-3 ticks of sword or Orb AoE, that's time for Healers to damage the sword without concern. Same applies during his Rehk AoE's or during the parting-sea stack markers. You can buff the raid with a small or moderate shield after mitigating stormsplitter seeing as the other tank then takes aggro and you don't need that mitigation ticking anymore, so hey, free party-wide shield for inevitable AoE madness? Yes please.
I wasn't aware of the old version (I skipped War when SiO was introduced), but if all it did was dispel one negative effect, then yeah, obviously that is barely comparable to the current version. -
01-23-2018, 10:00 AMCanadaneTo be fair, it cured ALL removable debuffs. Not just one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion88
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01-23-2018, 11:08 AMNycro
You do realize you don't always have cooldowns running when you're the MT right? You pop CDs for tankbusters, and hardly ever is there a situation where raidwide AoE comes out at the exact same time as a tankbuster. Raidwide AoEs typically happen BEFORE or AFTER tankbusters. In situations where you have a CD running for auto attacks assuming you don't need it for a tankbuster, Rampart does not get eaten by Shake it Off so even then it's not bad.
A great example is that before Blackfire Trio I pop Thrill + Intuition + Inner Beast for the set of tankbusters then I use Shake it Off with the last couple seconds of Thrill, Intuition, and Inner Beast to put out a 20% shield on the entire party. This huge shield makes the heavy raidwide damage much easier to deal with for the healers. I also use it as an emergency tool in Golden when we are missing mitigation we would normally have and would have died otherwise. You know what I'd be doing with the old Shake it Off in ultimate? Literally nothing. -
01-23-2018, 11:23 AMLunaChild
While I'm loving the new SoF, I also miss old one as well.
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01-25-2018, 12:41 PMNewDefect
"Removes most all detrimental effects.
Can be executed while under the effect of action-inhibiting statuses."
is better than
"Creates a barrier around self and all nearby party members that absorbs damage totaling 8% of maximum HP.
Dispels Thrill of Battle, Inner Beast, Vengeance, and Raw Intuition, increasing damage absorbed by 4% for each effect removed."
SCH, AST, and PLD all have shields so who cares? -
01-25-2018, 12:58 PMTiem
Good, good... liking some of the comments, liking some of the salt.
Specifically enjoy the comments from Satarn and whiskeybravo who actually took the time to talk through how you view the new Shake It Off and what you use it for. Always happy to see people raising counterpoints rather than, as much as I enjoy reading it over and over, "you're drunk, go home".
The problem is, it doesn't look like a lot of the comments attacking the OP were really following along. I liked the old Shake it Off, I wish that it would be put back in. There are definitely uses for the new version of Shake it Off but, as whiskeybravo mentioned if you're pressing all the buttons to get it to its maximum value you're doing something wrong and several people have mentioned, if you're using all your cooldowns at once then you're just rolling your face across the keyboard rather than actually playing the game.
A free shield every minute is great. It's not a ton, but it's a couple thousand hp for the party so that's great. It helps. It's not going to change the game, but it helps. It saves a cast of an AoE heal or a couple seconds of regen ticks. It does work, but it's not going to make or break things.
I still miss the old version. Because I enjoyed it. Because of the times when it made a difference it made one hell of a difference. And because even though it didn't (usually) remove debuffs that were part of a fight mechanic, it removed a lot of things that made a significant difference. And with the sentiment people are throwing around on the forums saying things like "Esuna is an unnecessary skill" you're still going to run into those hilariously stupid situations like in O4 (before the change) you get grouped with 2 healers that don't have Esuna on their bar and both tanks get the Doom effect. Funny shit, that is.
So regardless of how many people never actually pressed the button or don't believe that status effects exist, I'm still going to wish that it hadn't been removed because I loved that button.
RIP, button. -
01-25-2018, 07:19 PMRopeDrink
It's one thing to wish for an ability to return (or be restored), and another to mock the new one -- which, in typical context-less forum format, is unintentionally asking to be schooled on that ability out of the most common assumption that haters simply aren't using the new one correctly. After all, let's face it, the new version is good - arguably much better. Meanwhile, healers entering dispellable territory and not taking dispel is not a fault of our own option not existing any more. That is on the dispellers for goofing.
-- salty responses were imminent from here.Quote:
Every time I play the game I look at this mockery that it was replaced with in dismay.
-- would have been more appropriate for a two-way discussion rather than a salty landslide.Quote:
A free shield every minute is great. It's not a ton, but... <snip>
Don't worry, your local Bard can dispel you when Healers forget Esuna. -
01-25-2018, 08:23 PMPhileas
Is this some kind of troll thread?
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01-25-2018, 09:24 PMDamianTenbe
First of all if you do your mechanics right why would you even need old shake it off? To take poison away? Paralyzed?
You know your healer got spell esuna and it does wonders and It takes really short time to cast it. So what that old shake it off takes all stacked up negative statuses away when I don't see it viable in raids and dungeons. Did you know that especially when you were in need of it, it wouldn't work? Bad breath happens in arum vale and it's below lvl 70 so that ability isn't even aviable when would make the most sense. With all the respect but new shake it off let's me contribute to the party more and makes me a better addition to the team. I disagree with you as a war main. -
01-26-2018, 12:03 AMwhiskeybravoAppreciate your candor here. Honestly when I first saw the thread I thought I missed something in the live letter about Shake it Off being removed or changed again in some way and admittedly I freaked out a bit lol. Come to find out that wasn't the case, but I was already fired up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiem
There was potential for old SiO to be useful (still would've needed to be better) such as an AoE cleanse which would've at least been unique to the game, or you know if it actually cleared debuffs that might not otherwise be able to cleared (like, eff yo' lightning resist Exdeath). TBH it might have even been alright if it was left alone but made a level 25 ability. As it was presented, though, it was absolutely terrible waste of a high level ability. -
01-26-2018, 12:35 AMAana
The salty landslide is based on your complete dismissal of the most powerful type of ability in the game (shielding) while holding up a self targeted debuff removal that only works on dungeons and fates and literally zero use inside endgame 8man content as awesome. Its completely disconnected from the reality of the game and the move itself has been the source of much anger and salt from Drks BECAUSE it's so awesome. Then here comes a borderline troll sounding post about how awesome the broken (I mean that in the most literal sense. It did not actually work at endgame) skill was super cool and missed while downplaying what is arguably the strongest party support skill since mantra.
Your viewpoint is flatly out of touch with reality. Call it a salt slide all you want, but the old skill was objectively bad while the new one has singlehandedly shoved another class into the background and taken the place of the best tank support skill in the entire game. -
01-26-2018, 07:57 AMCaelum_Dragguell
Not sure if joke post.... Can't tell...
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01-26-2018, 08:06 AMAniya_EstlihnIf you read the thread and went through and looked at his replies, you'd have realize that he's being serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caelum_Dragguell
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01-26-2018, 08:24 AMTiemPart of that comes from my original post being deleted and throwing in a hastily-worded rewrite (since the cap is 1000 characters I attempted to copy/paste but it hadn't copied properly).Quote:
Originally Posted by RopeDrink
My sentiment about the ability change remains though. They didn't take the time to "fix" the old one into something usable in more situations, and instead replaced it with something that was both completely different but also completely the opposite direction that the feeling of the class had always been going. A % shield does at least lend to the "fat sack of HP" feeling but the "theme" of warrior had always been in rooted in "hit them more to survive more" and a party-wide shield that doesn't involve some sort of bloodlust prior to using it just seems like they wanted to give them a utility button without trying to think of something unique. And there's a high probability that the coming dark knight change to "bring them in line with the other tanks" is going to make their personal shield affect the party so that every tank will have one.
I liked the idea of the old ability. The fact that they don't build non-dungeon fights to have removable status effects is really just the same flaw that the design team has always had of "we had a cool idea but then didn't follow through on it so it isn't really a valid option". Kind of like how they just removed classes from the game but aren't willing to remove classes from the game, and how crafted combat gear is only really useful for returning players to qualify for current content. -
01-26-2018, 08:34 AMTiemThere's still a chance of that! They seem to be "reworking" warrior in some way but haven't given any real info yet, but based on the changes for SB and the patches since then it seems like they really aren't sure where they want warrior to be in terms of damage, lifesteal, or what-have-you.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
It would have seen use in 8 man content if it were something like what you said, or something that lets you ignore all detrimental effects for 10 seconds... but then it feels like basically being another invincibility because it would be used to ignore "die at x stacks" or other things that basically just kill you if it could (though even if it were limited to the things that didn't kill you through Holmgang it would still be useful to ignore 2-3 stacks of nonremovable vulnerability, or to prevent another stack from being applied due to being immune to status effects would let it time out and fall off).Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
THAT would have been a great way to rework it into something that would get tons of use. -
01-26-2018, 08:53 AMAniya_EstlihnI actually find this to be highly doubtful. People can argue for it all they want, but TBN functions entirely separate from a party shield and changing it to be such would actually affect how the job plays at its base. It would, essentially, make Dark Knight a completely different job at 70. Shake it Off was useless in its original incarnation, it wouldn't make a difference half of the time, and it simply didn't provide anything for the Warrior or Party that wasn't already possible by other means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiem
The Blackest Knight has a use, it has had a use since its introduction SiO did not have any viable uses or application in most instances that had been released at the time. The only problem with TBN is that it doesn't mesh well with the rest of our kit, being both an MP hog at 2,400 and a DPS loss in most cases due to it being pointlessly tied to our GCD. If anything, Sole Survivor may be changed or replaced with party utility as it, for the most part, has been made entirely irrelevant in comparison to the rest of the skills in our kit. -
01-26-2018, 09:01 AMLlusThis 100% - learn how to avoid those debuffs; you're a tank you're supposed to be smarter than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
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01-26-2018, 09:29 AMBourne_EndeavorTo which you promptly slap both healers, tell them to put Esuna on their bar and carry on. Frankly, Esuna should never have become a role action to begin with, but I digress. You don't base a skill around both healers possibly being dumb. And you certainly don't base it around Normal mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiem
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01-26-2018, 09:54 AMTiemThere is a lot in this game that is based around people being dumb and normal mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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01-26-2018, 09:58 AMTiemYet Equilibrium is still a skill, despite not providing anything to the warrior or party that isn't already available by other means and generally is a 60 second cooldown to save a healer 1 cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn
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01-26-2018, 10:14 AMBourne_EndeavorNot job abilities. Such is why Repose and Fluid Aura are often removed from people's hotbars entirely. Shake it Off suffered a similar fate. It was completely worthless in its original incarnation. You don't base a skill around healers not taking Esuna.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiem
... you can't be serious? You're comparing Equilibrium to the original Shake it Off? I... I have no words for the sheer stupidity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiem
Equilibrium is primarily reserved for panic-self healing, which is actually useful during prog or to cover for high amounts of incoming damage. Old Shake it Off may cleanse a Paralysis debuff the healers can easily cover. The two aren't remotely comparable. -
01-26-2018, 10:30 AMDamianTenbeThere is no abiltites based on people being dumb. This game is set about teamwork. Equilibrium is pretty good to save your own skin when you make a mistake and does more than just saving a healer 1 cast, it can save the run and it doesn't mean that healer isn't competent enough to cast a heal at the right time. It provides survivabiltiy. I can't comprehend Old shake it off with new one. I don't see any situation that old one would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiem
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01-26-2018, 11:31 AMRopeDrinkBecause there isn't, unless you want to include solo-levelling or FATE's, or maybe some obscure dungeon-boss of the past where you might actually get to dispel something that any Healer (or even a BRD) can do for you these days, if it was even worth taking Esuna for in the first-place, which, chances are, it wasn't/isn't. Even Esuna is left in the dustbin unless there are specific bosses with specific mechanics that practically require it, so why would anyone miss an ability that does the same thing (in a greedy, self-casting fashion) when you can have something that provides so much more and leave the dispelling to a different role?Quote:
I don't see any situation that old one would be better.
Meanwhile, Warriors who find themselves in a situation where previously used cooldowns are suddenly of no use (such as tank-swap moments like, say, Susano EX Stormsplitters, where he hits hard enough to warrant some mitigation for his autos & SS, but not enough for off-tanking), what do you do with those now useless cooldowns you popped (before handing the boss over to your co-pilot)? Convert that now defunct cooldown into a party-wide shield of variable strength in anticipation of his arena-wide unavoidable AoE's? YES PLEASE. As a WHM main myself, things like this are welcomed, no matter how small you, as a Warrior, consider it to be from your perspective. It is still a party-wide shield. And it is being compared to a greedy self-dispel that numerous classes can take care of.
It just makes no logical sense. It's like 'you only miss it when it's gone', except the majority can't figure out why anyone would miss it to begin with. -
01-27-2018, 05:13 AMBluexBird
Uhm... OK so, I know it says Shake It Off should absorb any Warrior-specific cooldowns you have going on, but...
Anyone else notice how the buffs icons are still on you when you use Shake It Off?
So like, either this is a glitch and the buff icons should disappear after using Shake It Off.
Or Shake It Off isn't using the buffs and this should be fixed.
Or it's using the buffs for a stronger shield and not using the buffs! That would be great. Anyways, whenever I do have to use Shake It Off during a cooldown, I make sure to pop it early and time it so that it goes off when the cooldown is about to end.