Let's add an option, SE [Previous PVP System]

Let's add an option, SE**

Hello! I want to repeat a suggestion I made in one of the other topics, for better visibility. I really want to see this feature in the game and I'm sure alot more people would as well.

The suggestion I speak of is to add an option in the Duty Finder/PVP Profile to enable the use of the PVE Toolkit and reintroduce the 3.xx PVP skills, AKA an option to switch back to the system many people loved and was suddenly binned with the arrival of Stormblood.

This could be added by either
A) Adding a seperate queue for people who have the previous system enabled, much like the Frontline Freelancer option.

B) By bringing both systems into the same queue, but give the players with the old system some sort of enfeeblement to balance out the multitude of skills they have OR buff the players using the old system. This would however create a few other problems such as healers having actual AoE healing/stronger healing in general.

C) Cap all Frontline modes at lv60 (or 70) and return it to the 3.xx system, and keep the newer modes with the new system.

D) ... (Have another suggestion? Please post below, I'd love to hear it.)

In duties such as The Feast you would either only be able to get a queue if your opponents of the same role have the same system as you enabled (If both healers have the older system enabled, queues goes, if only one healer has old system enabled, keep looking for a queue. Same goes for ranged/ranged, melee/melee, tank/tank. Hopefully that makes sense.), or the same thing as previously mentioned at point A.

This rule would not be the case in 8v8, everyone uses whatever system they want in there.

I'm aware that by bringing this into the game, it would split the queues between players who like the new system and those who prefer the old. But I think it would make for a much more fun and varied experience.

I like the idea.

Sorry, but this would be a pretty bad addition. Without going into it too much:
Not only would it be a balancing nightmare for any developer regardless of resources, it would be doubly so with the resources SE has for PvP currently. Both options, especially the latter. You can't complement or balance the removal of 30ish abilities and their utilities to match someone with 9 with a simple buff or debuff.
Not only that, but it would be a very inelegant way of implementing something like this. Sure a lot of us liked the old system more for a lot of it's aspects but bringing it back to exist alongside the new system would be beyond confusing and messy.
I like people suggesting new things but this is one bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Astryoneus

Sure a lot of us liked the old system more for a lot of it's aspects but bringing it back to exist alongside the new system would be beyond confusing and messy.
I like people suggesting new things but this is one bad idea.

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I agree it's not the greatest option, but I'm scratching my head to think of another idea that doesn't involve splitting the queues (and remember, option A is still a thing.) At the very least I would like to see this change happen for duels; there's no point in having them with the new system IMO, 0 strategy involved.

Unrelated: thank you Kapo for saving my title! <3

How about making the current Frontline modes cap at level 60 and revert it to the 3.x system. I'd be fine playing older modes exclusively if it meant getting all the old abilities back.

Make frontline great again and put the newer 9 button garbage modes in the Golden Saucer as minigames, where they belong.

What they could do, and they really need, is an "arcade" mode that acts as a testbed for pvp ideas. They could try this in the mode, which people would pretty much understand would not be balanced or competitive, and see how people do. I think though people would find that 3.0 had its ups an downs, and doesnt work as a solution. Maybe at least then they can isolate what works a little better.

anything that splits queues is not a good idea. it has to be either all or none.

Actually having shatter and seal rock cap at 60 with old abilities is a pretty cool idea.

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Originally Posted by Kisama

How about making the current Frontline modes cap at level 60 and revert it to the 3.x system. I'd be fine playing older modes exclusively if it meant getting all the old abilities back.

Make frontline great again and put the newer 9 button garbage modes in the Golden Saucer as minigames, where they belong.

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That is a great suggestion, I'll add it to the main post! However, while I'd take this any day over what we have now, I would like to be able to use the lv70 abilities in PVP as well. Perhaps capping them at 70 instead of 60 would be an idea?

The 70 abilities combined with the old 60 ones would break the game. You think healing is bad now. Just keep it at 60.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The 70 abilities combined with the old 60 ones would break the game. You think healing is bad now. Just keep it at 60.

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We have the 70 abilities now. I don't see how it would break anything.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

We have the 70 abilities now. I don't see how it would break anything.

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For healing as a white mage, that means not only would i have medica 2, regen, sacred prism, all my defensive abilities like attunement, and more, I'd now have shields (benison) massive MP regeneration (thin air), and a buff to my aoe heals through plenary indulgence. the 70 abilities are balanced on the post HW nerfed kit of pre 60 stuff.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

For healing as a white mage, that means not only would i have medica 2, regen, sacred prism, all my defensive abilities like attunement, and more, I'd now have shields (benison) massive MP regeneration (thin air), and a buff to my aoe heals through plenary indulgence. the 70 abilities are balanced on the post HW nerfed kit of pre 60 stuff.

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But DPS would have more burst potential, Tanks would have other abilties, so would SCH and AST. Being able to use the entire kit would increase the burst potential of all DPS. Also bringing back the 3.0 scenario would go back to the 3.0 CC which all that massive MP regeneration would be null and void. Benison WHM's already have.

I'm not sure that would help. Monk would be gimped in that situation, as all its post 60 stuff is fixing problems it had with pve or useless abilities. I'm not sure how DRK would even work, because the pve kit strains it for resources a lot more and paces it out. RDM and SAM of course have no real kits, so you'd need to add a bunch of stuff period. If you want older more complex pvp, its probably better to test it with the well defined 60 abilities first to see if it works.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I'm not sure that would help. Monk would be gimped in that situation, as all its post 60 stuff is fixing problems it had with pve or useless abilities. I'm not sure how DRK would even work, because the pve kit strains it for resources a lot more and paces it out. RDM and SAM of course have no real kits, so you'd need to add a bunch of stuff period. If you want older more complex pvp, its probably better to test it with the well defined 60 abilities first to see if it works.

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It was already tested. We had it, not much changed otherwise. I can see a DRK charging in now into a pack with grit and blood price loving it. Monk would have One Ilm Punch(Also a Stun) which would remove buffs since all healers now have shields and again higher burst potential. Having played MNK in HW in PvP I can tell you they wouldn't be gimped and if anything Riddle of the Earth would actually have use. Bard/MCH jumps you? RoE and charge in with full stacks (Stun) and go to town.

Here is a video for your amusement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ojRzUBr70

DRK could be decent in a 70 PvP scenario actually. TBN is pretty much ToB every 15 seconds that proc's your new burst skill Bloodspiller. Syphon now also has a Dark Arts effect which makes it stronger. Not quite sure what you main with "already strains for resources in Pve", quite the contrairy, overflowing on them is what you need to pay mind to.

Blood Price would probably be unlocked outside of Grit for PvP as well, since that change was (presumably) made to encourage staying in tank stance more.

I agree with Winter, not only healers get new abilities at 70. Monk gets RoF which would be insane burst potential especially with Brotherhood.

I don't know how much bigger the communities are on other datacenters but speaking for my one, we can't afford to split things at all. Just needs to be one system and make it great. The only way pve actions in pvp might work is if it's restricted to only custom matches and 1v1 at wolves' den pier so they don't need to take time balancing anything around it, and still it might be too resource-intensive to be worth doing. It's probably more realistic to request certain actions that you like be added to the current system.

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Originally Posted by SummerScorcher

Monk gets RoF which would be insane burst potential especially with Brotherhood.

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Nevermind TCJ (1560 ranged potency in like 3 seconds), Bhavacakra, Demi-Bahamut, Triplecast, Kaiten'd Midare... the big winners of reverting to the PvE system would be DPS IMO.
Healers have always been so overpowered that if you allowed them to actually USE their abilities, they'll just outdo you, hence CC&Burst being the name of the game. Giving them stronger abilities doesn't really change anything, you need to kill stuff in the CC window where they can't use any of them to get anywhere either way. And most DPS have gotten burst tools in SB, making that process easier, doubly so with Crit and now DH Crit being a thing.

Which... is all the more reason it realistically won't happen. They went out of their way to go the opposite direction with SB.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Nevermind TCJ (1560 ranged potency in like 3 seconds), Bhavacakra, Demi-Bahamut, Triplecast, Kaiten'd Midare... the big winners of reverting to the PvE system would be DPS IMO.
Healers have always been so overpowered that if you allowed them to actually USE their abilities, they'll just outdo you, hence CC&Burst being the name of the game. Giving them stronger abilities doesn't really change anything, you need to kill stuff in the CC window where they can't use any of them to get anywhere either way. And most DPS have gotten burst tools in SB, making that process easier, doubly so with Crit and now DH Crit being a thing.

Which... is all the more reason it realistically won't happen. They went out of their way to go the opposite direction with SB.

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Sadly so.

God forbid we add ways to meaningfully avoid or divert damage such that healers each with less throughput than any given DPS could, as in other games when their team coordinates intelligently, hold off or keep their team up against twice as many DPS as there are healers... That might detract from our visceral sense of cyclindrical hitboxes numerically slapping each other. The horror.