Dark Knight and Incoming Live Letter 4.2 on 12/15/17

With the upcoming live letter the development team has an opportunity to actually discuss dark knight and why they think it is balanced with respect to the other two tanks. What would you like to hear from Yoshi P?

I would like to hear that Dark Knight offers less utility than Paladin and Warrior and that Dark Knight's single target DPS will be increased above the others so that there is a reason to bring dark knight into 8 player raids again.

If DRK tool kit stays as it is right now: HELL YES, 'best DPS tank'! (no sarcasm, it's actually reasonable)

Doesn't change the fact that the job isn't as much fun for me as it used to be.

I hope for - at least a little - design change to make this job less depending on Dark Arts.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

If DRK tool kit stays as it is right now: HELL YES, 'best DPS tank'! (no sarcasm, it's actually reasonable)

Doesn't change the fact that the job isn't as much fun for me as it used to be.

I hope for - at least a little - design change to make this job less depending on Dark Arts.

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O.o Dark arts is what makes the DRK great though. I love using Dark arts if anything I wish they would add more MP / HP / DPS arts specially for when your Off tank mode.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Dark arts is what makes the DRK great though. I love using Dark arts

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It's not that Dark Arts isn't good (it is good), it's this excessive use of it. In HW it was just DA Soul Eater, DA Carve and Spit, DA Abyssal and - situational - DA Dark Mind.

Since SB there is DA Sython Strike, DA Soul Eater, DA CnS, DA Bloodspiller, DA Quietus, DA Abyssal, DA Dark Mind, on top TBN (cost the same as DA).

HW rotation was very good, you could actually fit every oGCD in with ease.
Now you need to use DA every GCD in your opener. Very easy to clip.

It just doesn't feel good or fun at that.

I'd like to be able to use another button please. DA SE is very stale when you have nothing else to use or no mana/BW is on CD. Bring back old Delirium and make it have a stacking increase healing buff up to a cap of 5 of 20% each that the next DA SE will heal for. Will help us fix our no sustain button as well as the bordem we have with spamming 1 combo all fight. Change the name of current Delirium to Essence Theft.

Obviously fix our very bad DPS and mitigation too but that's a long list to include here.

I think the solution to that points more to adjusting DA animation so it's a better multi weave ogcd (like Card Draw and Ninjitsu), and maybe letting DRK hold multiple DAs at once,

that before, "Make DRK DA less." Agree it feels like both the bug and the feature of the job,

Or have dark arts not fade on execution so it’s not as spammy, but then raise the mp cost.

Im also not a fan of DRKs DA spam atm, BUT I also agree its the direction DRK should have been focused on from the start.

Im mostly a fan of 2.5s GCD, with oGCD attacks in between.
Im not a fan of 2.5s GCD with often oGCD buffs between. (just not as fun.)

But thats personal preference/bias.

So I'd have imagined (in my own mind) that DRK was the long GCD, buff before attack tank, WAR the long GCD, with oGCD attacks bwteen, and PLD the quicker GCD (like MNK/NIN/SAM) of tanks (and technically lesser dmg, but gets the offensive utility to enhance other peoples dmg, to make up for its own.)
(EDIT: Id also swap WAR and DRK around, if they used a different system for resources as well)

But imo SE doesnt really look at how all jobs fit into their own lore, and how they would fit into other future jobs.
They instead look at, how can me make this work within what we already have made, w/o changing too much of what we made.

Very unlikely they will actually do anything to DRK since it cleared Ultimate. Yoship said it the other day unfortunately.

I dont expect nothing from this live letter, they always save balance stuff for the letter before the patch

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Originally Posted by shao32

I dont expect nothing from this live letter, they always save balance stuff for the letter before the patch

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Pretty much this. Probably just a mention of 'Job tweaks coming, please look forward to it' if it comes up at all. At best you will get a specific job mentions "Were looking into Blm and Drk. Please look forward to it".

If they are any changes to DRK, hopefully it'll be in terms of increased potency in actions or better self-sustain. Self-sustain is terrible on DRK and only viable on large packs of mobs for DA + Abyssal Drain.

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Originally Posted by rxnin

If they are any changes to DRK, hopefully it'll be in terms of increased potency in actions or better self-sustain. Self-sustain is terrible on DRK and only viable on large packs of mobs for DA + Abyssal Drain.

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Technically its almost as viable on single target. (and by almost viable, i mean its practically never viable, even in AoE)

If each enemy hits you for 100 dmg each, and lets pretend you hit every enemy, healing for 10 each.
thats 300 dmg taken, 30 healed. (10%)
or its 500 dmg taken, 50 healed.

So if a single target hits you for 100, and you heal 10, you just "mitigated" the same amount.


If its not viable on single target, then its not technically viable in multiple targets.
(Unless it grows for every target past the 1st, on top of its effect already)

The MP is better spent elsewhere.

If it had no MP cost, and was a CD, that on a rare occasion can heal you, then hitting multiple targets is the better route, as you're going to use it anyways, as there is no penalty to using it.
But DA is the penalty for using it, and therefor just as much of a waste on multiple targets as single target.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Technically its almost as viable on single target. (and by almost viable, i mean its practically never viable, even in AoE)

If each enemy hits you for 100 dmg each, and lets pretend you hit every enemy, healing for 10 each.
thats 300 dmg taken, 30 healed. (10%)
or its 500 dmg taken, 50 healed.

So if a single target hits you for 100, and you heal 10, you just "mitigated" the same amount.


If its not viable on single target, then its not technically viable in multiple targets.
(Unless it grows for every target past the 1st, on top of its effect already)

The MP is better spent elsewhere.

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You normally don't fight multiple enemies that hit for the same amount of damage as a single target.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Technically its almost as viable on single target. (and by almost viable, i mean its practically never viable, even in AoE)

If each enemy hits you for 100 dmg each, and lets pretend you hit every enemy, healing for 10 each.
thats 300 dmg taken, 30 healed. (10%)
or its 500 dmg taken, 50 healed.

So if a single target hits you for 100, and you heal 10, you just "mitigated" the same amount.


If its not viable on single target, then its not technically viable in multiple targets.
(Unless it grows for every target past the 1st, on top of its effect already)

The MP is better spent elsewhere.

If it had no MP cost, and was a CD, that on a rare occasion can heal you, then hitting multiple targets is the better route, as you're going to use it anyways, as there is no penalty to using it.
But DA is the penalty for using it, and therefor just as much of a waste on multiple targets as single target.

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Your comparison ignores the damage though and only describes the HP gained. The only reason Drk sustain is 'viable' on packs is because its an AOE move that adds up to a ton of potency. Youd never use DAAD on a ST just because of the crap damage. You also seem to only be referencing the DA cost of DAAD in the view of a % of damage received. But on packs of stuff, they all hit like pansies so it will be much more 'sustaining' as a measure of keeping yourself up than a boss that AAs for 20k a hit while you DAAP 1 target for 1000hp.

Drk's single target sustain is non-existent while its AOE sustain on fluff damage packs of dungeon mobs 40 ilvls below you is pretty respectable. Theres no real mixing of those 2 categories for drk now.

Edit: Apparently im to slow.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

You normally don't fight multiple enemies that hit for the same amount of damage as a single target.

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That basically.

I just want the old Blood Price and the old Dark Passenger back. But alas, I don't expect anything. I'd rather hope for nothing and be pleasantly surprised. But let's be real, SE probably won't make any meaningful changes to DRK. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

You normally don't fight multiple enemies that hit for the same amount of damage as a single target.

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In the example, I was more so referencing a situation where they do, so in this case, you killed 2 or 3 enemies in a group, of all the same type of enemy, and you have 1 remaining enemy, who was the same type.
(only by the example, and yes I wasnt being very clear with where I was taking the example. As a side note, the amount of dmg a target hits you for, doesnt effect the amount in which it heals anyways, so its not a factor for deciding if its worth using really. It's just to paint a picture.)

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Originally Posted by Aana

Your comparison ignores the damage though and only describes the HP gained. The only reason Drk sustain is 'viable' on packs is because its an AOE move that adds up to a ton of potency. Youd never use DAAD on a ST just because of the crap damage. You also seem to only be referencing the DA cost of DAAD in the view of a % of damage received. But on packs of stuff, they all hit like pansies so it will be much more 'sustaining' as a measure of keeping yourself up than a boss that AAs for 20k a hit while you DAAP 1 target for 1000hp.

Drk's single target sustain is non-existent while its AOE sustain on fluff damage packs of dungeon mobs 40 ilvls below you is pretty respectable. Theres no real mixing of those 2 categories for drk now.

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The fact Abyssal Drain is better on multiple targets (for damage) isnt the argument, but the healing's "cost" is the argument. (obviously it heals more, on more targets, but its cost doesnt get cheaper per target, only what the cost offers, but its offer is offest by the amount of extra number of targets attacking u now, aka they cancel out)
The healing does have 2 requirements.
(1) Abyssal Drain be cast
and
(2) Dark Arts be active.

For arguments sake, lets pretend Abyssal drain isnt a requirement. (You are right, that its an additional cost)

If you could just hit Dark Arts, and then another button to eat the DA, just to land a heal, equal to what you would get from DA/AD, it wouldnt be worth it.
It's an emergency last option.
If youre out of CDs to lower damage, or you're down a healer, then it's worth the MP cost.

The argument is half "The number of targets" and half "is it worth using the MP?"

The number of targets is irrelevant to the MP cost, but as you mentioned, is relevant to abyssal drain, as its a requirement.

Now, the alternative is to use Soul Eater in case you dont have a healer.

If there is 1 target, Soul eater is the better for self sustain.
If there are multiple targets, Abyssal Drain is better than soul eater in self sustain.
But even if its better than soul eater, that doesnt make its MP cost worth it.

So I brought up the example of using on a single target, to explain WHY its not worth it. (But there are exceptions where it is.)

I think this should help explain where I'm coming from with this better.

Can we get an ability that manipulates our resource? Like DA effect on Blood Price, half or reduce mana costs by 1/3rd and can be used without grit if we have a dark effects on? Like the ability will retain color once we have a DA effect and if we don't it fades away, making it the same look when we're not in Grit.

Of course, the CD has to be increased, I'd say give it current delirium's CD and give current Delirium 1.5/1 min cd? Idk, I just want a change already and it's almost been half a year with our bandaged up fixes.

Hi,

Honestly, I'd like and preferred Drk to be buffed only in the amount of HP for Soul Eater. It would be what separates it from the other Tanks as right now the small amount of HP that Dark Knight regains can't really compare to Warrior's Heals.

When Ultimate Bahamut came out and was downed by the JP server people. All the JPs and us here could not understand why everyone was freaking out over a Drk being in the team com to down it. Over here, Drk is preferred over other Tanks for MT simply due to their higher Magic Resist. I would guess its probably the different mentality of the different regions?

As for DPS-wise, maybe the Dark Knight's DPS can remain the same as compensation for the increased amount of HP they get from Soul Eater. Making them to be more of a sustain tank that can really hold the ground when a healer is down without popping immunity. Anyways, at the rate things are going, Drk will not be receiving any changes for a very very long time.

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Originally Posted by VthMillion

Hi,

Honestly, I'd like and preferred Drk to be buffed only in the amount of HP for Soul Eater.

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I gave a suggestion earlier in this OP about our self sustain. If old Delirium is brought back, instead of INT down, we can get a stacking buff of increasing Soul Eater's HP restoration is increased by 20% per stack up to a max cap of 5. So, imagine getting 5 stacks, DA SE and you'd get a 14k heal. Also affected by DH and crits, so this could replace our "restore HP quickly ourselves" button.

It can be tweaked where the stack can be consumed only with DA so a normal SE wouldn't remove it when we want to keep it safe for aligning a heal after a Tank buster. But then again, they'd need to do stuff like give it a high potency so we try and stack that effect without sacrificing our DPS much, it's already the worst out of the 3 so ya, need some work on that.

just make drk's normal combo potency equal to those of pld and war, then enhance them with dark art for bigger numbers, abusing dark art should result in oh shit situation more often.

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Originally Posted by VthMillion

Hi,

Honestly, I'd like and preferred Drk to be buffed only in the amount of HP for Soul Eater. It would be what separates it from the other Tanks as right now the small amount of HP that Dark Knight regains can't really compare to Warrior's Heals.

When Ultimate Bahamut came out and was downed by the JP server people. All the JPs and us here could not understand why everyone was freaking out over a Drk being in the team com to down it. Over here, Drk is preferred over other Tanks for MT simply due to their higher Magic Resist. I would guess its probably the different mentality of the different regions?

As for DPS-wise, maybe the Dark Knight's DPS can remain the same as compensation for the increased amount of HP they get from Soul Eater. Making them to be more of a sustain tank that can really hold the ground when a healer is down without popping immunity. Anyways, at the rate things are going, Drk will not be receiving any changes for a very very long time.

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This isn't really a thread for defending the proposition that dark knight is in a weaker position than the other two tanks, but I'll quickly list a few reasons.

1) Dark Mind is typically quoted as powerful mitigation (and the source of what you call dark knights higher magic resist), but it is a 15% magic defense up, the nature of defensive increases is that it is mitigating less damage than actual mitigation. At max gear this works out to be 16% mitigation right now for magic only damage. Raw Intuition is a 100% parry rate on warrior, mitigates only physical damage, has a higher up time and mitigates 20% of the damage. Bulwark on paladin mitigates all damage, has half the uptime of dark mind and raw intuition, a random element since it increases block rate by 60%, and mitigates 26% of damage blocked, clearly not something to depend on for a buster (RNG) but on fluff damage you can expect about the same mitigation potential as raw intuition since block is higher mitigation and you can potentially block all damage types.

Conclusion, if you want dark mind to mitigate a buster you should pair it with something otherwise you may find yourself falling short. To mitigate an attack with only Dark Mind you might pair it with either dark arts (32% mitigation) or The Blackest Night (which is better depends on how much damage is incoming but it is usually better to pair with the blackest night). Dark Mind can be powerful but usually requires giving up something in addition. However, this isn't a deal breaker.

2) The more serious issue with dark knight is that it is currently the only tank which doesn't bring a method of dealing with raid wide damage, both paladin and warrior do. Pair this with its below average dps and we have a recipe for dark knight falling out of favor.

As more people have cleared savage it is beginning to paint a negative picture for dark knight, which is currently 12% behind warrior damage.

If we are being honest, the problem with Dark Mind is Paladin.

Dark Mind separated DRK from the other 2 tanks in HW. Paladin had problems, but it wasn't because they couldn't block magic. When they changed magic to be able to be blocked it basically just shat all over DRK's "specialty".

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

In the example, I was more so referencing a situation where they do, so in this case, you killed 2 or 3 enemies in a group, of all the same type of enemy, and you have 1 remaining enemy, who was the same type.
(only by the example, and yes I wasnt being very clear with where I was taking the example. As a side note, the amount of dmg a target hits you for, doesnt effect the amount in which it heals anyways, so its not a factor for deciding if its worth using really. It's just to paint a picture.)

The fact Abyssal Drain is better on multiple targets (for damage) isnt the argument, but the healing's "cost" is the argument. (obviously it heals more, on more targets, but its cost doesnt get cheaper per target, only what the cost offers, but its offer is offest by the amount of extra number of targets attacking u now, aka they cancel out)
The healing does have 2 requirements.
(1) Abyssal Drain be cast
and
(2) Dark Arts be active.

For arguments sake, lets pretend Abyssal drain isnt a requirement. (You are right, that its an additional cost)

If you could just hit Dark Arts, and then another button to eat the DA, just to land a heal, equal to what you would get from DA/AD, it wouldnt be worth it.
It's an emergency last option.
If youre out of CDs to lower damage, or you're down a healer, then it's worth the MP cost.

The argument is half "The number of targets" and half "is it worth using the MP?"

The number of targets is irrelevant to the MP cost, but as you mentioned, is relevant to abyssal drain, as its a requirement.

Now, the alternative is to use Soul Eater in case you dont have a healer.

If there is 1 target, Soul eater is the better for self sustain.
If there are multiple targets, Abyssal Drain is better than soul eater in self sustain.
But even if its better than soul eater, that doesnt make its MP cost worth it.

So I brought up the example of using on a single target, to explain WHY its not worth it. (But there are exceptions where it is.)

I think this should help explain where I'm coming from with this better.

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That is a simple question of is Drk -140 pot (probs in grit potency) better than X healer gcds youd gain. But since its 140 per heal, its really about the time it buys. In other words the ratio of the heal vs damage. You can think of it more like a shield based on your stats (like TBN). If the mob damage is low that HP will buy you a LOT of time. But if the incoming damage is high, it wont. Extreme example. DAAP heals for 100 damage each. Each mob hits you for 10 damage. 10 mobs. 3 sec per hit. 1 DAAP heals you for thirty seconds of damage. Your healer can do a lot with that. More than 140 pot per mob. Other extreme mobs hit for 10k a hit, you heal for 100 damage. Never worth it. Not a drop in the bucket.

Its certainly not 'never' worth it. Its just situational much like the discussion in another recent thread about War using ST combos to build gauge for a big cyclone heal vs just spamming OP. Theres a tipping point and it would depend on your healers ability to leverage your gifted time.

For DAAP there are 2 scenarios its 'always' worth it.

1.You are taking more damage than the healer can keep up with. Think: New healer in a dungeon you overgear. They cant keep you up in a giant pull (or they die etc). DAAP spam will obviously be worth it to stay alive. -140 potency vs a wipe. Not even a choice.
2. Excess resources. I forget how many mobs it takes, but at a certain number of mobs hitting you, you gain MP faster than you can AD it away and you might as well DAAP because its always worth it in that case rather than waste MP. (similar situation for dark passenger. It usually sucks but if you cant spend MP fast enough its that or nothing)

Beyond that its a simple measure of is 140 grit potency greater than X healing gcds (time) you can salvage.

But realistically, if youre in an AOE situation its only a concern if you're going to bottom out on MP and be unable to continue to use AD because you used a DA and actually realize that opportunity cost. as long as your MP regen skill is on you wont be in that situation.

Prepare to be disappointed and press more dark arts.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

This isn't really a thread for defending the proposition that dark knight is in a weaker position than the other two tanks, but I'll quickly list a few reasons.

2) The more serious issue with dark knight is that it is currently the only tank which doesn't bring a method of dealing with raid wide damage, both paladin and warrior do.

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Well, technically they do, it's just a role ability, not a unique ability, so same result.

Sorry, I'm pedantic at times.

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Originally Posted by Aana

But realistically, if youre in an AOE situation its only a concern if you're going to bottom out on MP and be unable to continue to use AD because you used a DA and actually realize that opportunity cost. as long as your MP regen skill is on you wont be in that situation.

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While I disagree with how you came to the same conclusion, I agree with that conclusion.
(Soley the part about how much dmg you intake affecting your choice to heal or not. As you'll heal the same amount regardless of incoming dmg. Incoming damage only matters if your heal is greater than how much you're missing.)

But for clarifications sake (and probably beating a dead horse) using healing to make up for lack of a healers healing (because they arent there, or are struggling, and need help) is still a "reasonable" sacrifice.
Obviously its better to still be alive than dead.

The main reason DA+AD is the go to heal for AoE, is literally due to the opposing option, ends up healing for less, but does do more dps. (Soul eater vs dark arts with 0 potency increase)
So you either pick defense or offense, and thats your choice.
Obviously for defensive options, DA+AD is always helpful, since its one of the best heals/"mitigation" on the GCD. (The rest being off the GCD or worse than DA+AD defensively)

But yeah, in a calculation of X number of enemies, each doing Y dps, while you always heal Z amount times X number of enemies, still means that the effectiveness of a 0 potency MP cost, pretty much is equally not worth it "offensively" in either AoE or single target. It's not comparable to choosing between 50 potency AoE vs 100 potency single target.

but i guess none of that matters if we pretty much agree to using it at the same times. (To stay alive)

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

Well, technically they do, it's just a role ability, not a unique ability, so same result.

Sorry, I'm pedantic at times.

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In general I try not to get bogged down in comparing universal abilities between all the tanks, details are important, but equally important is the focus of information. When comparing what classes bring to the table in a raid it is unnecessary and distracting to compare exactly the same thing on all classes to each other. I also left tank LB out of the equation, because all tanks have it, and it is usually only used if the raid will wipe without it.

Example: Paladin is the only tank that can take the damage for another tank for a short duration by using cover. This isn't true, but discussion provoking pre-tank buster and shirking back to the intended tank once the damage is dealt is a universal of the class that is expected given raid mechanics. Laboring this common and universal mechanic only serves to distract from the issue one is trying to highlight.

Something about forests and trees.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

In general I try not to get bogged down in comparing universal abilities between all the tanks, details are important, but equally important is the focus of information. When comparing what classes bring to the table in a raid it is unnecessary and distracting to compare exactly the same thing on all classes to each other. I also left tank LB out of the equation, because all tanks have it, and it is usually only used if the raid will wipe without it.

Example: Paladin is the only tank that can take the damage for another tank for a short duration by using cover. This isn't true, but discussion provoking pre-tank buster and shirking back to the intended tank once the damage is dealt is a universal of the class that is expected given raid mechanics. Laboring this common and universal mechanic only serves to distract from the issue one is trying to highlight.

Something about forests and trees.

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The argument is technically "frequency of being able to do so".
Back in HW, you could only provoek so many times, so swapping, and then back again, too soon, can lead to problems/wipes.

Cover allowed you to essentially "provoke/shirk" an additional time, while they are on CD.
So PLD has an extra one. Though you can say we have ultimatum, and shirk on top of voke, which now makes it unnecessarily to use cover, but of course cover doesnt take up a role slot, which non PLDs cant afford to lose, while PLD is able to give up some role slots... which is where id argue the imbalance is. (and one I wouldnt care about, if some of the other tanks had features unique to them equally)

In the same argument, DRK has raid utility from reprisal, and therefor there's no reason to argue for DRK having raid utility.

So on, and so forth.

The issue is that reprisal is on CD equally with all 3 tanks, and 2 of them, can still help with raid wide dmg, while DRK cant. (Otherwise SE wouldnt have given WAR the new shake it off, since they could equip reprisal)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

The argument is technically "frequency of being able to do so".
Back in HW, you could only provoek so many times, so swapping, and then back again, too soon, can lead to problems/wipes.

Cover allowed you to essentially "provoke/shirk" an additional time, while they are on CD.
So PLD has an extra one. Though you can say we have ultimatum, and shirk on top of voke, which now makes it unnecessarily to use cover, but of course cover doesnt take up a role slot, which non PLDs cant afford to lose, while PLD is able to give up some role slots... which is where id argue the imbalance is. (and one I wouldnt care about, if some of the other tanks had features unique to them equally)

In the same argument, DRK has raid utility from reprisal, and therefor there's no reason to argue for DRK having raid utility.

So on, and so forth.

The issue is that reprisal is on CD equally with all 3 tanks, and 2 of them, can still help with raid wide dmg, while DRK cant. (Otherwise SE wouldnt have given WAR the new shake it off, since they could equip reprisal)

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Yup, this is exactly what I'm saying about extra details. The whole of my point is those two utilities existence one 2 tanks and not a second outside the cross role system create an imbalance favorign two tanks while having one tank that has no upside.

This is also ignoring that shields have uses outside of when the boss can be targeted. So one could argue that the shielding utility is superior to reprisal and offers a wider range of applications.

I think that when it comes specifically to DRK and mitigation I think it'd be decent if they made some contextual changes to TBN for some of the party mitigation stuff. Specifically: If the target is another tank have the shield create a barrier that's the full value of a normal TBN cast on self. It might be argued that this isn't as good as Shake It Off (which personally I think is kinda bad but that's not what this thread is about) but it does give DRK a bit better of a tool for helping manage Tank Busters especially on the cotank. This'd give DRK essentially 'a better intervention' while still having the upside of giving blood back to the DRK.

There are still adjustments to DRK's pDPS and the cost of TBN to consider, but personally I think it's a fairly decent way of making TBN a bit more dynamic in use and give it a little bit of extra oomph.

I jumped on DRK real quick, to test something, because I actually do remember SE mentioning adjustments to self heals, and wanted to see if soul eater still heals for less than 1% of max hp.
(As I saw abyssal drain heal, being the better heal, even on single target)

The improved amount is roughly 6-7% of max hp now, and with DA adds roughly 1k-1.6k more hp (which is roughly the amount abyssal drain heals on a single target)
So at least they have that working more reasonably. (even if its still pathetic)

What exactly are you doing where Souleater heals less than 1% of your max HP? My Souleater heals for 2.5-3.5k of my 53.6k HP. Which is 4%-6%. And that's before DA. With DA it's 4-5k, or 7-9%. Abyssal Drain heals for roughly 1.5k or 2% of my max HP per target.

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

What exactly are you doing where Souleater heals less than 1% of your max HP? My Souleater heals for 2.5-3.5k of my 53.6k HP. Which is 4%-6%. And that's before DA. With DA it's 4-5k, or 7-9%. Abyssal Drain heals for roughly 1.5k or 2% of my max HP per target.

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This was at Stormblood launch or it was the prerelease numbers, i forget which, but the heal at Lv70 was ~400 hp.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

if soul eater still heals for less than 1%(even if its still pathetic)

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I just tested it again, to double check the numbers, and it was a 3k heal, and 4k heal with DA.
But I also know I remember hearing about an update to all selfhealing on tanks (a while back back when they needed to make a lot of fixes to jobs, including things like WAR stance dancing no longer removing gauge), but at the time didnt bother looking into it, as I had already decided I didnt like how DRK turned out, and went RDM.

I know I wasnt the only person upset as the forums were in an uproar over how horrid self healing was on all tanks at the time, and how 1% or less of ur max hp isnt even reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

I know I wasnt the only person upset as the forums were in an uproar over how horrid self healing was on all tanks at the time, and how 1% or less of ur max hp isnt even reasonable.

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You were the only person because that was never true. Even back at 4.0's release, Souleater healed for 100% of the damage dealt at 60 and 88% of the damage dealt at 70, exactly how it is now. You probably made the mistake hitting a level 1 or 50 dummy, because you can't be healed for more than the current hp of whatever you're hitting.

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Originally Posted by Launched

You were the only person because that was never true. Even back at 4.0's release, Souleater healed for 100% of the damage dealt at 60 and 88% of the damage dealt at 70, exactly how it is now. You probably made the mistake hitting a level 1 or 50 dummy, because you can't be healed for more than the current hp of whatever you're hitting.

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While its possible it was a dummy, and most likely was, as thats what I think I remember testing the changes on, I know it wasn't "just me" as there was a lot of complaints.
(heck, even now people still complain about tank self sustain, even as it is. But atm looking through posts, trying to find the comments. wish there was a better options to search for, that didnt bring up unrelated results lol)

As far as I can tell there was no mention of adjustment in the patch notes. They slightly buffed Souleater's potency in 4.05 but nothing regarding the heal.

Ahahahaha. They're actually going to do it. Not so much as a hint of DRK buffs, but they're already signaling that they're going to buff WAR again.

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Originally Posted by Crater

Ahahahaha. They're actually going to do it. Not so much as a hint of DRK buffs, but they're already signaling that they're going to buff WAR again.

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Yup, because people are flocking away from the warrior job. Mean while Dark Knights are definately being run at similar rates to every other tank.

For the next person to say, wait for part 2, we've been waiting for a proper response since June.

Ah, yes, I'm sure that by noon we'll have half a dozen "wait for part 2!!!!!" posts, completely oblivious to the fact that SE isn't exactly in the business of under-sharing with planned updates during a Live Letter. But maybe this time it'll be different!!

I'm sure we're also going to get a ton of people trotting out the old classic "It says Warrior usability is being adjusted! That could mean they're getting nerfed!!" from people who have either never seen a Live Letter before or haven't acquired enough basic pattern recognition ability to realize that that's what SE says when they're planning a big buff.