What if casters had element resistance debuffs?

As it sits right now there are debuffs for slash, pierce, and blunt resistance for melee DPS and Tanks. But what if casters had debuffs for resistance to the elements? Black Mage could do fire resistance debuff for example. Imagine the added utility casters would get from this!

That would only be effective for BLMs, RDMs, and DPSing WHMs, since other magic is classified as unaspected. It would probably be cumbersome to have to change the effects each time you switched to a different type of magic. BLM would probably be the only one that would benefit from them for an extended period of time, given how RDM rotation swaps between different Ver spells, and SMN is completely unaspected. Same for SCH and AST.

A better alternative to something like this would be just a sweeping "magic resistance down" debuff.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

That would only be effective for BLMs, RDMs, and DPSing WHMs, since other magic is classified as unaspected. It would probably be cumbersome to have to change the effects each time you switched to a different type of magic. BLM would probably be the only one that would benefit from them for an extended period of time, given how RDM rotation swaps between different Ver spells, and SMN is completely unaspected. Same for SCH and AST.

A better alternative to something like this would be just a sweeping "magic resistance down" debuff.

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Actually some melee jobs have "magic" elemental attacks too, especially Ninja. Bard has it too in attacks such as wind/stormbite.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

Actually some melee jobs have "magic" elemental attacks too, especially Ninja. Bard has it too in attacks such as wind/stormbite.

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And for BRD to benefit (or even NIN to), there would have to be specific debuffs up for each attack. Which, again, would get cumbersome to have to manage. Besides, BRD is already reliant enough on a piercing resistance down rebuff that only DRG can provide. I'd rather not them be reliant on a "wind resistance down" debuff for higher DoT damage. NIN ninjutsu are only used once every 30 seconds unless you Kassatsu or Hide in the middle of a fight (the former has a CD and the latter not recommended at all), so again. BLM would be the only job that would consistently see any difference from specific elemental debuffs because of their Astral Fire rotation.

Again, better alternative would be a sweeping "magic resistance down" debuff, not individual "fire resistance down"/"water resistance down"/"thunder resistance down"/etc..

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

And for BRD to benefit (or even NIN to), there would have to be specific debuffs up for each attack. Which, again, would get cumbersome to have to manage. Besides, BRD is already reliant enough on a piercing resistance down rebuff that only DRG can provide. I'd rather not them be reliant on a "wind resistance down" debuff for higher DoT damage. NIN ninjutsu are only used once every 30 seconds unless you Kassatsu or Hide in the middle of a fight (the former has a CD and the latter not recommended at all), so again. BLM would be the only job that would consistently see any difference from specific elemental debuffs because of their Astral Fire rotation.

Again, better alternative would be a sweeping "magic resistance down" debuff, not individual "fire resistance down"/"water resistance down"/"thunder resistance down"/etc..

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By that logic though the current debuffs for slash pierce and blunt should just be weapon resistance down instead of individual.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

By that logic though the current debuffs for slash pierce and blunt should just be weapon resistance down instead of individual.

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I wasn't arguing about those debuffs, and they don't have anything to do with what I said. Having 6 different elemental debuffs would be entirely way too cumbersome for casters to manage (compare to RDM who, if they wanted specific elemental resistances down, would have to apply each specific debuffs basically every other attack), and they would really only benefit a singular caster for any extended period of time ("fire resistance down" and BLM in Astral Fire). As it stands with the physical debuffs, yes only MNK benefits from blunt, but the entirety of a BRD/MCH/DRG rotation benefits from piercing, and the entirety of NIN/SAM/WAR/DRK/PLD benefit from slashing, not just a couple GCDs before having to switch to another debuff, which is what you would have to do if there were individual elemental debuffs.

If players want a "magical resistance down", it would be much better (and much easier to manage) to do a sweeping "magical resistance down" rather than have to switch debuffs based on your next GCD. Plus, SMN/SCH/AST would benefit from that as well, all of which have unaspected magical damage.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I wasn't arguing about those debuffs, and they don't have anything to do with what I said. Having 6 different elemental debuffs would be entirely way too cumbersome for casters to manage (compare to RDM who, if they wanted specific elemental resistances down, would have to apply each specific debuffs basically every other attack), and they would really only benefit a singular caster for any extended period of time. As it stands with the physical debuffs, yes only MNK benefits from blunt, but the entirety of a BRD/MCH/DRG rotation benefits from piercing, and the entirety of NIN/SAM/WAR/DRK/PLD benefit from slashing.

If players want a "magical resistance down", it would be much better (and much easier to manage) to do a sweeping "magical resistance down" rather than have to switch debuffs based on your next GCD. Plus, SMN/SCH/AST would benefit from that as well, all of which have unaspected magical damage.

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I doubt they'd even need to use all 6. Ice and Water for example have no real merit. Black Mage uses ice to recharge and Hyoton is crap in PvE, no one else uses Ice beyond that. The only Water attack I know of off hand at least is Suiton, which is mainly used to proc Trick Attack. Earth is used mostly by White Mage with Red Mage using it on Verstone procs and Ninja using it for Doton, so Earth can afford to be ignored here. That leaves Fire, Thunder, and Wind as the most reasonable resistance debuff additions.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

I doubt they'd even need to use all 6. Ice and Water for example have no real merit. Black Mage uses ice to recharge and Hyoton is crap in PvE, no one else uses Ice beyond that. The only Water attack I know of off hand at least is Suiton, which is mainly used to proc Trick Attack. Earth is used mostly by White Mage with Red Mage using it on Verstone procs and Ninja using it for Doton, so Earth can afford to be ignored here. That leaves Fire, Thunder, and Wind as the most reasonable resistance debuff additions.

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And compared to the physical resistances down, which benefit the entirety of most melee and physical ranged rotations, specific debuffs will only benefit a portion. It would just be easier to do "magical resistance down" if casters were insistent on wanting their own damage debuffs. There's no need to add three more specific debuffs that won't benefit the entirety of a rotation where as a general resistance down debuffs will.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

And compared to the physical resistances down, which benefit the entirety of most melee and physical ranged rotations, specific debuffs will only benefit a portion. It would just be easier to do "magical resistance down" if casters were insistent on wanting their own damage debuffs. There's no need to add three more specific debuffs that won't benefit the entirety of a rotation where as a general resistance down debuffs will.

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It is meant to be mutual. After all, melee's resistance debuffs do not benefit casters much at all so at least casters, while benefitting their main elemental attacks, would also partially benefit the melee and other ranged dps jobs as well. Furthermore, the idea is for each caster to have more unique utility rather than slap the same one on to each of them. Besides, even the slash pierce and blunt resist debuffs don't benefit an entire rotation, only the weaponskill parts of it. Also once again I must point out that if they do a magic resistance debuff it would only make sense to change the 3 weapon resistance debuffs into 1 general debuff, and I seriously doubt they'd ever do that.

I'd like to get some raid utility as BaeLM. Like I dunno.. Making it so Ley Lines give 50% of the buff the BaeLM gets to anyone standing in it or something in those lines.. Give us something Yoshida T.T

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Originally Posted by popotaro

I'd like to get some raid utility as BaeLM. Like I dunno.. Making it so Ley Lines give 50% of the buff the BaeLM gets to anyone standing in it or something in those lines.. Give us something Yoshida T.T

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Please no. Never. I'd rather have it knock anyone 20 yalms away if they dare to approach it.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Please no. Never. I'd rather have it knock anyone 20 yalms away if they dare to approach it.

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Thatd be fun in a "mass chaos" sense the first time you got to a boss in a 24 man, 6 BLMs drop Ley Lines roughly simultaneously, and the rest of the party pinballs around for a min. Dont imagine id get many more raid invites after that though...

There is no point to give BLM fire weakness debuff if only him and RDM needs it ( and in the RDM fire dmg doesn't represent 90% of their dmg output)
It's like giving WHM a wind debuff

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

There is no point to give BLM fire weakness debuff if only him and RDM needs it ( and in the RDM fire dmg doesn't represent 90% of their dmg output)
It's like giving WHM a wind debuff

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That analogy is more off than you realize. A large chunk of BLM's DPS comes from fire attacks. The bonus would be that a few other jobs have attacks that would benefit too.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

That analogy is more off than you realize. A large chunk of BLM's DPS comes from fire attacks. The bonus would be that a few other jobs have attacks that would benefit too.

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There is only one other job that would slightly benefit: RDM. That’s it, though. Maybe a NIN if they Katon for AOE pulls, but unless the debuff is spread to each mob in the pull, the benefit would be minuscule.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There is only one other job that would slightly benefit: RDM. That’s it, though. Maybe a NIN if they Katon for AOE pulls, but unless the debuff is spread to each mob in the pull, the benefit would be minuscule.

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Actually summoner ifrit is fire damage as well.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

There is only one other job that would slightly benefit: RDM. That’s it, though. Maybe a NIN if they Katon for AOE pulls, but unless the debuff is spread to each mob in the pull, the benefit would be minuscule.

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There is also Dragoon and their Dragonfire Dive.

No point in elemental resistance debuffs since I spam fire on Ifrit, don't care that Shiva is of ice when I get my MP back, and Ramuh procs Thundercloud regardless. It's niche and would serve little. A magic resistance debuff or magic attack up buff would make more sense. And if the aim of this is to increase BLM's effectiveness or appeal to group compositions, I'd rather they just buff up its damage so that SMN isn't outdamaging it with combat raise and raid buffs in its kit.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Please no. Never. I'd rather have it knock anyone 20 yalms away if they dare to approach it.

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I actually mentioned last night in-game that I wanted a reverse Rescue to knock people out of my leylines.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Please no. Never. I'd rather have it knock anyone 20 yalms away if they dare to approach it.

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LMAO I was just trying to find something lol It's actually annoying to see a lot of scrubs staying in my leylines lol

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

No point in elemental resistance debuffs since I spam fire on Ifrit, don't care that Shiva is of ice when I get my MP back, and Ramuh procs Thundercloud regardless. It's niche and would serve little. A magic resistance debuff or magic attack up buff would make more sense. And if the aim of this is to increase BLM's effectiveness or appeal to group compositions, I'd rather they just buff up its damage so that SMN isn't outdamaging it with combat raise and raid buffs in its kit.

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It's not so much about the DPS as it is the utility to a group. Sure it would be easy enough to grant magic resistance debuff in general but that is something all 3 caster DPS could get and make them no different than they currently are. This discussion is more about the utility diversity than the extra DPS.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

It's not so much about the DPS as it is the utility to a group. Sure it would be easy enough to grant magic resistance debuff in general but that is something all 3 caster DPS could get and make them no different than they currently are. This discussion is more about the utility diversity than the extra DPS.

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I'm not sure I would classify raid DPS as utility. Lots of people conflate the two and lump raid DPS buffs in with things like combat raise, apoc, mana shift, etc. If the intent is to get in at least one caster into the meta compositions over no casters, I guess that works. It's just not the way I'd prefer them to go about it.

Boosting the damage output of anyone other than yourself still counts as utility. A raid buff is a raid buff. As long as its' helping someone else in your party, it's worthwhile.

That said, if BLM got a Fire Res down cooldown, I'd expect it to be balanced around their personal DPS, rather than any interaction with RDM/SMN. The benefit is sparse at best, as everyone has already pointed out.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Boosting the damage output of anyone other than yourself still counts as utility. A raid buff is a raid buff. As long as its' helping someone else in your party, it's worthwhile.

That said, if BLM got a Fire Res down cooldown, I'd expect it to be balanced around their personal DPS, rather than any interaction with RDM/SMN. The benefit is sparse at best, as everyone has already pointed out.

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Indeed it is. But the mutual benefit, however small, gives casters something they don't have that most of the melee jobs do, including Tanks. It also aids abilities other DPS jobs use that do not benefit from their debuffs. A small thing for sure, but every little bit counts. Also on the point about AoEs not benefiting as much from the debuff, some elements would. Case and point: Thunder resist debuff. That would boost the potency of Raiton which is already Ninja's strongest Ninjutsu for single targets.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

That said, if BLM got a Fire Res down cooldown, I'd expect it to be balanced around their personal DPS, rather than any interaction with RDM/SMN. The benefit is sparse at best, as everyone has already pointed out.

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I quite enjoy being the super selfish deeps that doesn't provide for the rest of the party, so how about something that reinforces that idea? An inverse raid buff of sorts. A trait that increases BLM damage by X% for every DoM (except other BLM) job in the party. You'd always have at least two healers so that would be the baseline. Call it Mana Battery and have the tooltip be "Leeching minute amounts of Aetherial energies from other magic users," or something.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I quite enjoy being the super selfish deeps that doesn't provide for the rest of the party, so how about something that reinforces that idea? An inverse raid buff of sorts. A trait that increases BLM damage by X% for every DoM (except other BLM) job in the party. You'd always have at least two healers so that would be the baseline. Call it Mana Battery and have the tooltip be "Leeching minute amounts of Aetherial energies from other magic users," or something.

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BLMs have a trait like this in Bravely Default. Black Resonance. It only worked with other Black Mages until you learned the trait, however. Even so, the best place for this kind of effect would be Enochian itself.

Sounds like a great idea, surprised there's so much resistance to idea.
One of my idea's before stormblood came out was to give bard a move that lower's enemy air resistance to help white mage in meta.
Could tack on monk's (shit) tackle (honestly don't know what they were thinking when they added 'elemental tackles') elemental resistance down on the opposing element of the tackle fire tackle ice resistance down, earth wind down and wind earth down.
To give some synergy between monk and casters.
??